OpenJamma board - interest?

[garwil]

Just posting to wish you luck with what seems like an awesome project!

[redfivexw]

sounds awesome!

[shanghaiguide]

An update on the ole vapourware 

Noticed a metric um load of new signups today for our newsletter on openJAMMA, and see that we hit reddit.
Its not the front page, but traffic definitely went kaboom as did signups.

In other news -

I had some stickers printed for product pr purposes a few weeks ago, and we've been sending those out to the first people who've asked for them.  Anyone wants some, let me know or signup and ask for some. 

We also sent out our first newsletter last week.  Mr Procrastination here for the win

In other other news, our first pcb design company dumped us (too low volume), so we had to find another one.
Already did so,  have paid another deposit, and should see a board design soon soon.  (I've been bugging my assistant daily on this! )
Once I have the pcb design, I need to go over it and check the gpio's are correct, and make sure that the 4 player hirose connector is ok, and triple check that i didn't mess anything up (eg rgb out, as thats marginally complicatedish), as that  design will be made into a hopefully working test pcb if ok.  Any mistakes mean more test boards need to be made, and those are relatively expensive to make 1 off's, so I'm aiming for less is more...

It also slows things down a bit, as it takes about 2 weeks to go from design to pcb each time, plus costs me a small but ouchy whack of money.

So, I'm going slowly but surely forwards.

We also have had good response from the newsletter for request for distributors, so all I need to do now is get something into place contract wise, so I can get people to sign on the dotted line bwahahaahaha.  I'm not keen to do that quite yet though quite yet, as I do want less vapourware and more hardware before I do so.  Once I have actual board(s), or at least the pcb design done I'm be more gung-ho on that.

Once I have the initial prototype design from them (as opposed to my dev board + crappy wiring ), I'll stick some images up online, as its one more step to the goal.

Oh, and I had a meeting with a client who does injection moulding, and talked to him about making a case for the board.
If its not too expensive we may do so.  I should have a 3d design from him next week and some pricing. 
Things are rolling into place now


Current status:

Website - up.
Stickers for PR - done.
PCB Design - tick tock tick tock impatiently waiting for first draft
Software - behind on as the logistics bits are starting to get to be more involved (not so worried on this, as I can rope others in once I can ship out first sample boards, 404, i'm looking at you hehe)
Distribution - need to get some contracty stuff done, but more than enough interest to get boards to people
Intro animation - haven't heard back from the video peeps, so will go visit them this week and harangue.  They're friends of mine, and its a favour, but dammit, I expect results 



Lawrence / openjamma.org

[DaveMMR]

Cool. Coolcoolcool.

This makes me really glad I'm going the JAMMA wiring route on my current project. 

[Raven..]

I would love to have a couple of these when they are ready.  I have many of the other Chinese multi-boards from the last few years, and there are some things done right on each one, but too much done wrong (like the Linux-based 128-in-1 that is hell to hack).  This is an exciting project! 

[1500points]

was just told about this project today.  Very nice, and will be much desired as there is nothing comparable out there.

I browsed the whole thread but here is what I'm wondering about the classic games up to 84ish.

1- will a USB happ trackball and USB slikstik spinner work with this board, for games like major havoc, crystal castles, Kickman, Centipede, Tempest, etc

2- will the mame version be update-able by the user, which is relevant for games like Robotron. ie older versions of mame below 145-148 have poor blitter emulation.
It would be nice to drop a custom \src\mame\video\williams.c into mame 148 so Robotron/Joust/Bubbles/etc have the optimal play experience.

3- will it support a 49-way stick if someone was interested in playing a game like Sinistar?

Awesome project. Kudos. I'm in for one when they are produced, regardless. 

[happyfunball]

this sounds like an interesting project but I'm unclear a little on what emulation its running.
are you just recompiling a version of mame to run on it? If so, doesn't that sort of go against mame's terms of use that it shouldn't be used for commercial products?

or is this intended to run whatever emulators people make on their own and you're just selling a piece of hardware?

[sandheaver]

this sounds like an interesting project but I'm unclear a little on what emulation its running.
are you just recompiling a version of mame to run on it? If so, doesn't that sort of go against mame's terms of use that it shouldn't be used for commercial products?

or is this intended to run whatever emulators people make on their own and you're just selling a piece of hardware?

Well, MAME doesn't run standalone, it would need an OS to run on top of.  So, it would probably need to be (given the open nature of the hardware) an open, but customized, OS such as Linux.  Linux would suit itself pretty well to this application, without question.

This will probably be distributed in similar ways as the Raspberry Pi.  Hardware sold without OS, without storage, but with downloadable OS and supporting commonly used storage media: USB drive or SD card, etc.  (edit: it is against MAME EULA to sell MAME; but if the Raspberry Pi model is followed, you purchase only the hardware -- or build your own -- then download the software free of charge.  It is in this way that the MAME EULA is not violated.) 

I think it will be a bit of a mistake to design and market it solely as a MAME/MESS platform; much more interest can likely be gained if it is made to be a general purpose embedded platform that happens to have a JAMMA connector, or possibly modular IO boards (one of which would be JAMMA.)  Just look at what is missing from the market now and you'll quickly see where you'd go with this kind of a board, if you decided you wanted to go there.  Modular IO would let you support trackballs and paddles and every control method MAME & MESS support, without necessarily including them all on the one board.  An open platform with open modules is the way to go, in my eyes.

Despite that, I find this project very interesting, indeed.

[shanghaiguide]

this sounds like an interesting project but I'm unclear a little on what emulation its running.
are you just recompiling a version of mame to run on it? If so, doesn't that sort of go against mame's terms of use that it shouldn't be used for commercial products?

I'm pretty sure I answered the M question already.  May have been on the otaku board though.  Have added it to the FAQ though.
->
http://openjamma.org/faq/

MAME!

The short answer – No.
The long answer – licencing wise, MAME doesn’t allow for commercial use, and an openJAMMA board for sale with MAME pre-installed would count as commercial use.
That said, the board will be updatable, and we will have a repo which you can install MAME from if you so wish. Again, this will be open source, so those who want to make it happen can, those that don’t can use the default packages we will ship with.


OS will be linux (Debian) based, and we'll have our own repo for updates.
(Well, less of the "will" have, more of the has.. a repo, I already made one a while ago).
Frontend will be python based.

Still mulling over whether I use Mamewah! or similar, or not.  Thoughts, comments?
Right now I have it booting into a simple python selector, and that then runs emulator du jour.

Yes I realise this is hard to answer without visuals, but I do have a lot of stuff to get done before I can get alpha units out to testers etc.

[shanghaiguide]

1- will a USB happ trackball and USB slikstik spinner work with this board, for games like major havoc, crystal castles, Kickman, Centipede, Tempest, etc

Yes, if there are linux drivers for it.
If there are not, then no until someone makes some.  The ones I have though appear as mice to a computer, so should work (assuming the usb ones you have are similar to the ones I have).

[sandheaver]

Still mulling over whether I use Mamewah! or similar, or not.  Thoughts, comments?

If you're going to rely on a modified distribution and repository to support this board, I would say that you should not really bother with a front-end at the moment; the community will create one as soon as the itch strikes, and may have already. 

I would avoid as much custom development as possible and rest on the existing Linux OS and existing apps & front-ends wherever possible.  You don't know the needs of the userbase, yet, so you can't know what the requirements will actually be for a front-end.  Without requirements you can only guess, and that invariably leads to development time being wasted on features no one wants, and features people do want being wholly skipped because they weren't anticipated.  Just skip all that and let the community create one; that's part of why it's open, is it not?  I, for one, don't want a visible front-end at all.  MAME command line is sufficient for me; I can control MAME from other computers, easily.

[yotsuya]

I prefer you make it as plug and play as you can. Here's one vote for a customizable front end.

[1500points]

I'm personally looking for a no hassle plug'n'play board where we can modify the mame version and rom choices in a simple efficient menu (no 60-1 menu music, please).

If it requires hacking and linux development and hours of fiddling, no thank you.  I am fine with fiddling in mame with a PC just as easily.

I read the hacking thread on klov of people trying to putz with the 138-1 board for mods, and that looks inefficient. not interested.


Keep It Simple and Easy and you've got a winner. 

[yotsuya]

I'm personally looking for a no hassle plug'n'play board where we can modify the mame version and rom choices in a simple efficient menu (no 60-1 menu music, please).

If it requires hacking and linux development and hours of fiddling, no thank you.  I am fine with fiddling in mame with a PC just as easily.

I read the hacking thread on klov of people trying to putz with the 138-1 board for mods, and that looks inefficient. not interested.


Keep It Simple and Easy and you've got a winner. 

Exactly. Just make the FE dipswitchable, and you can accomodate those who don't want a front end. But for those of us who just want to stick games on it and play, simple is best. We're paying YOU to do the software/FE development for us. 

[sandheaver]

Keep It Simple and Easy and you've got a winner. 

Exactly. Just make the FE dipswitchable, and you can accomodate those who don't want a front end. But for those of us who just want to stick games on it and play, simple is best. We're paying YOU to do the software/FE development for us. 

The ideas "keep it simple" and "make our front-end for us" don't really align with each other.

If you must, make it a front-end that is customizable, removable, and replaceable.  An option at install-time as to whether or not a UI is installed would be nice, or, if you distribute full images, package management to remove any existing front-end would be appreciated.

[emphatic]

If people are "fine with fiddling in mame with a PC" in their cab, why not just do that instead of trying to steer this project towards exactly that? I don't want something to fiddle with for hours on end because it's easy, I want something that plays some games perfectly without the need for anything but a JAMMA cabinet. Playing arcade games > Fiddling with a computer.

[sandheaver]

If people are "fine with fiddling in mame with a PC" in their cab, why not just do that instead of trying to steer this project towards exactly that? I don't want something to fiddle with for hours on end because it's easy, I want something that plays some games perfectly without the need for anything but a JAMMA cabinet. Playing arcade games > Fiddling with a computer.

You don't want Linux, then, or an open board.  You want one of the boards that are already available.  The reason this would be open, I imagine, would be specifically to allow any and all customization an end-user could muster.

I'm fine with an out-of-the-box working configuration, but I can guarantee that < 3% of users will leave that as it is, and see things they wish to change, immediately.

[yotsuya]

If people are "fine with fiddling in mame with a PC" in their cab, why not just do that instead of trying to steer this project towards exactly that? I don't want something to fiddle with for hours on end because it's easy, I want something that plays some games perfectly without the need for anything but a JAMMA cabinet. Playing arcade games > Fiddling with a computer.

You don't want Linux, then, or an open board.  You want one of the boards that are already available.  The reason this would be open, I imagine, would be specifically to allow any and all customization an end-user could muster.

I'm fine with an out-of-the-box working configuration, but I can guarantee that < 3% of users will leave that as it is, and see things they wish to change, immediately.

I think it all depends on how much customization you want to do. I'd like to be able to put my own games and fiddle with the front end, but other than that, I just want to make sure it plays games. If it's open, people can develop cool plug-ins and add-ons, and that's fine.

[sharpfork]

If the hardware ends up being powerful enough to get folks interested, I imagine there will be a build (community or other) that is simple turn key, extract an image on a SD card and call it done.  I would think there are other folks that would want to tinker.  There is no reason it can't support both.
 

[smalltownguy]

I'm interested in this. Apparently I'm not spending enough time on the BYOAC forums, lately 

[sandheaver]

I think it all depends on how much customization you want to do. I'd like to be able to put my own games and fiddle with the front end, but other than that, I just want to make sure it plays games. If it's open, people can develop cool plug-ins and add-ons, and that's fine.

Agreed.  I'm just saying that whomever is developing the OS for this board need not worry about a front-end; I believe the community will create one, quickly.

A core open source mantra is "release early and often."  If you read the paper "The Cathedral and the Bazaar" you'll understand why, pretty clearly.  I'm not at all an open source advocate but there are a lot of truths in this document, and it is worth a read.  The short of it is that if you release early, you'll gain help in finishing tasks, and if you release often, you're able to quickly show progress on the software, which will garner attention and bring on new folks, as they see the growing potential.  It is for this reason that I think a general purpose board with modular IO will gain far more attention from bored developers than a specialized board solely for arcades. 

It may not be plain to see here, but our hobby is a niche hobby, and it's a very small niche.  I fear that too few people outside of this community will find interest in this open JAMMA board, and low adoption makes it painless for any talent that is interested to walk away. 

I realize I'm too late the party to expect that my advice be taken to heart, and I do hope that this board moves beyond vapor, very much actually, but I think time would have been better spent creating a JAMMA IO daughterboard for an existing embedded platform, such as this one: http://www.hardkernel.com/renewal_2011/products/prdt_info.php?g_code=G135235611947

[cliff clavin]

I am very interested in this board....I have just spent many many hours fiddling with mame getting it setup with my arcade cab, that a plug in play simple solution would be ideal....I think people are looking for an easy straightforward solution, hence the popularity of the 138 in 1, 256 in 1, phoenix arcade pcb etc.....Many don't have time nor the expertise to get a complicated emulation working properly.....I have some family that I would love to setup with a cab....mame is simply to fussy and problematic but mame on a jamma board would be perfect ...I do not have the linux skills nor the desire to be tweaking the board incessantly .plug and play is the ticket......those that want to tinker can buy the rasperry pi board....

[sandheaver]

Cliff Clavin... so many humorous memories behind that name.  I'm a bit sad that my children will never have the patience to watch that show and experience that character.

I am very interested in this board....I have just spent many many hours fiddling with mame getting it setup with my arcade cab, that a plug in play simple solution would be ideal....I think people are looking for an easy straightforward solution, hence the popularity of the 138 in 1, 256 in 1, phoenix arcade pcb etc.....Many don't have time nor the expertise to get a complicated emulation working properly.....I have some family that I would love to setup with a cab....mame is simply to fussy and problematic but mame on a jamma board would be perfect ...I do not have the linux skills nor the desire to be tweaking the board incessantly .plug and play is the ticket......those that want to tinker can buy the rasperry pi board....

You can have both sides of that coin with a board like this.  You can have the quick & easy out of the box workability, AND the customized improved interface without doing the work yourself.  One would just download the modifications that were closest to their own desires.

[yotsuya]

While I apprciate the tinkerers out there who will undoubtedly do some great things with the hardware, I just want to play some games. Preferrably Galaga.

And while I appreciate what the "community" can do, I don't want to have to rely on them to make the board work. I would think most of us here would feel the same. I would actively encourage them to see what they could do with the board, but I don't think it should be all on them. I have faith that Shanghaiguide has listened to our comments about the existing xx-in-1s and their crummy FEs and will take that into account.

[sandheaver]

While I apprciate the tinkerers out there who will undoubtedly do some great things with the hardware, I just want to play some games. Preferrably Galaga.

And while I appreciate what the "community" can do, I don't want to have to rely on them to make the board work. I would think most of us here would feel the same. I would actively encourage them to see what they could do with the board, but I don't think it should be all on them. I have faith that Shanghaiguide has listened to our comments about the existing xx-in-1s and their crummy FEs and will take that into account.

I agree.  I'm just not going to rely on any of that if these come to fruition and I buy one.  I completely understand the desire for a plug-n-play style board, but I won't be using any of those convenience features, and I hope the board makes it easy enough for one to have it their own way.

[sandheaver]

To be honest, something like this is what I want.

http://www.avalue.tw/tw/product/detail.aspx?ccid=2&cid=8&id=14&zid=294

edit: updated URL to a more modern example on a more common platform

[RandyT]

To be honest, something like this is what I want.

http://www.avalue.tw/tw/product/detail.aspx?ccid=2&cid=8&id=14&zid=294

edit: updated URL to a more modern example on a more common platform

So, buy one?  Granted, a platform such as the one you linked to would provide higher performance and more options, but by time a processor, memory, storage, power supply, interface, etc... are added to the mix, you are well beyond the target price of the OpenJAMMA board, or similar platforms.  Personally, I like the flexibility of a true PC for emulation purposes myself, but there are many applications where a board of this type is a good fit, and it looks to be a better solution than something like a Rasberry Pi. 

You really have to consider feature set, price and application when comparing platforms.  You can always do better by paying more.

[sandheaver]

So, buy one?  Granted, a platform such as the one you linked to would provide higher performance and more options, but by time a processor, memory, storage, power supply, interface, etc... are added to the mix, you are well beyond the target price of the OpenJAMMA board, or similar platforms.

Really?  Has the OpenJAMMA board been priced?  Because I haven't seen that price, yet.

Grammatical comprehension is very weak on this forum.  I said I wanted a board LIKE that one, not EXACTLY that one...  I still want an embedded platform and a relatively low cost.  What I was saying (that i've already said a few times in this thread) is that I want a general purpose board with JAMMA IO, not a specifically JAMMA board.  I don't believe this community is strong enough to hold up a JAMMA-only product, but, if the product is a good general purpose board with optional JAMMA IO, then I think the audience could be much, much larger, and success would be that much more certain.

[yotsuya]

Really?  Has the OpenJAMMA board been priced?  Because I haven't seen that price, yet.

I'm aiming at around $80 for end product

Grammatical comprehension is very weak on this forum.

No wonder you have a hard time making friends.

[DaveMMR]

Indeed, the projected price point is also listed on his concise FAQ page. So it seems you're commenting on a product you didn't even read up on.

[sandheaver]

No wonder you have a hard time making friends.

because everyone in the world is like you; never hesitates to slide in a wry comment.  never.

there is not a single person on this planet i want to be friends with.  they will only use their friendship with me to steal from me or backstab me or make consistent jabs at me in public.  i have no friends because i have no interest in making friends.  there are no such things and friends, only weak spots which will eventually be exploited.

[yotsuya]

No wonder you have a hard time making friends.

because everyone in the world is like you; never hesitates to slide in a wry comment.  never.

there is not a single person on this planet i want to be friends with.  they will only use their friendship with me to steal from me or backstab me or make consistent jabs at me in public.  i have no friends because i have no interest in making friends.  there are no such things and friends, only weak spots which will eventually be exploited.

Jeez... I'm glad I don't live in your world.

Btw, that wasn't meant to be a snide comment. You yourself have stated you have difficulty making friends. My post was just my observation as to why that is probably happening. But now I know the reason is simply that you just don't want to. I was right way back when I said it seemed like you had a chip on your shoulder- for some reason, you do.

To get back on topic, Shanghaiguide, are you still looking at at August beta release?

[kagaden]

I'd be in for 3 when this materializes and I can read a review or two. If it's decent for 90's 2d fighters I'm all over it.

[shanghaiguide]

To get back on topic, Shanghaiguide, are you still looking at at August beta release?

I'm hoping for something close to that, but looks like its going to slide a bit.  May be ok though.
I got the first PCB design back from our design house, and I'm not so happy, they really didn't do <expletive deleted> yet.
Going to have to do a bit more work than I really wanted too myself with them so that "yeah yeah no problem" (aka mei wenti) turns into actual board layout, sigh.  If i really wanted to do it myself, I wouldn't have paid them to do it. 

 

Tis the nature of things though, and I should have expected life to indeed be interesting as that proverb goes

[sandheaver]

Tis the nature of things though, and I should have expected life to indeed be interesting as that proverb goes

Fast, good, cheap; pick any two.  This is the typical trade off when you want to create a new product.  It's true for software & hardware, both.

The software to properly design circuit boards of this size, the software the professionals use, Altium & the like, cost several thousands of dollars per seat.  Professional electrical engineer (EE) time is upwards of $150/hr, unless you hire someone on salary or know someone who is like-minded and actually wants to build a board gratis.

You are going to be plagued with delays on this front unless you can pay, or you find an enthusiastic hobbyist, or you get lucky in some other way that results in a good EE donating his/her time. 

Time for a kickstarter, maybe.

[nagamitsu]

Sign me up for a board! Just started gentle restoration on a cocktail system that is already pre-wired with Jamma harness and was looking at my options (apart from buying working Jamma PCB at $150-$200 a pop). OpenJamma board is exactly what I have been looking for. 


Tim

[Malenko]

back on topic, I def want at least 1 board, if you kick start and put the $100 donation at 1 board, I'd back you.

[sandheaver]

back on topic, I def want at least 1 board, if you kick start and put the $100 donation at 1 board, I'd back you.

Same.  I'd probably kick in $200 if the board had a more general purpose slant and performed well.

[yotsuya]

I, too, would Kickstarter $100 for a plug-and-play board if that included shipping.

[Brian74]

I, too, would Kickstarter $100 for a plug-and-play board if that included shipping.

+1

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2