New Cabinet Builder

[GrandJudge]

Hello, been lurking for quite a while, but now that I will be picking my cab up in 3 days I have a couple of questions that I haven't been able to find much info on.

I am making a MAME TMNT cabinet. Basically I will get all the graphics so the cab looks exactly like the TMNT cab (childhood favorite.) However I will be adding extra buttons to play other games.

1. First things first, I will be having 4 players, but am not entirely sure how many buttons I should use for each player. I have almost decided on just 6 for P1+2. What's the added benefit to the extra 7th button near the thumb?

2. Also, how many buttons should I have for P3+4? I mostly saw people with 4 buttons, is this enough?

3. I need some ideas on how to fit these extra buttons on the control pannel. I wish to use this graphic:

  (http://www.arcadeshopper.com/joomla/components/com_virtuemart/shop_image/product/TMNT_Control_Pan_47e95aa3ba935.jpg)

  -And the issue arises with the yellow and red players, one of the extra buttons will cut off some of the text on both.

  -Are there ways to get this graphic without the white holes for the buttons already in so I can move the placement of buttons to fit better?

4. Next thing is I dont wish to overcrowd the CP with buttons, so I was thinking of using an extra button (to use as shift) instead of tacking on dedicated:
  -P1-4 Start
  -P1-4 Coin
  -Exit,Pause,Menu... etc.

  -Has anyone had any negative experience without having the dedicated buttons or is it personal preference?

5. I haven't found too much material on wiring. I really just want a general length of wire I will need for a 4 Person, ~20 button cabinet.

6. Last thing, I haven't seen a general list, just a scattering of sites to buy arcade parts at. I have found a few with good prices, but I was wondering what most people around here are using.

Thanks, I REALLY appreciate the help!

[HaRuMaN]

1) The 7th is just a repeat of one of the 6 usually, it gives you the 4 in-a-row layout of Neo-Geo

2) 4 is enough for 4 player mame games.

3)

4) I would think you would want dedicated player 1 - 4 start buttons at a minimum...  and then maybe a shift button for the rest.

5) Hmm...   buy lots of wire?  Not sure.  Couple hundred feet should do it I would think.

6) divemaster (member here), paradise arcade, groovy game gear, ultimarc just to name a few. 

[WindDrake]

1. Six for 1 & 2, 4 for 3 & 4. I'm a short-bus kid and did 6 per player, not remembering that no 4-player game beyond 4 buttons exists.

2. See above.

3. I suck with art. Do what you think looks good!

4. Always have dedicated Start & Coin for each player. Use Shift functions for everything else. My very first cab had dedicated admin buttons and I hated them. Now my two cabs use shift keys to handle all admin functions, or I just turn on the Logitech Wireless KB&Touchpad unit sitting on top of the machine and use that.

5. Couple hundred feet of 18ga STRANDED wire. Solid wire is a lot harder to crimp and is generally frowned upon. I got mine for free and that's what my 4-Player cab is done up with. HUGE PAIN IN THE REAR. Also: Strip twice as much as you need if you're crimping, then fold the wire over on itself before crimping down. The joint is stronger!

6. My personal favorites are Ultimarc, GroovyGameGear, Paradise Arcade Shop, Twisted Quarter, ArcadeShop, divemaster (arcadeemulator.net). A lot of people also like FocusAttack. Quick note on Divemaster: He's full-time military and only ships on weekends, so he's "Slower" then the others, but he's a damn good guy to deal with and his prices are great. Nevermind he carries Ultimarc stuff here in the US.

[Nephasth]

You might also consider RGB LED buttons. I'm a fan of a curved 7 button layout for players 1 and 2 for the following reasons...

MK3 layout.


NeoGeo layout.


And check out the RGB buttons in action during TMNT...

[GrandJudge]

4) I would think you would want dedicated player 1 - 4 start buttons at a minimum...  and then maybe a shift button for the rest.

   Yeah, I think I may stick with a P1-4 Start, and a shift button for the rest.

You might also consider RGB LED buttons. I'm a fan of a curved 7 button layout for players 1 and 2 for the following reasons...

   Ahh, very temping. I've seen you cabinet on the forums here. I love the clean look of it. I don't feel that LED lights for the keys are really interesting for me personally. I also don't think I can make a 7th button work for the control panel art I wish to use. Also, I don't plan on playing too many Neo Geo, but they will be on the computer. I think I will be able to deal with using one of the other 3 keys as my 4th.

I have another question now too. What do you guys prefer... the Leaf style or the regular push button? My issue with the Leaf style is that I can't find a purple button. I wish to keep the button colors as close to the original TMNT as possible.

I am also still looking for suggestions on what to do with the control panel art, if there are any graphic experts out there with an opinion or idea!

[Nephasth]

You can use Rollie Leaf Switches in microswitch style buttons (they come in purple) to get that leaf switch feel.

[rCadeGaming]

+1 on 6-7 buttons for P1+2, 3-4 for P3+4.

+1 on dedicated start and coin button for each player.  Using a shift button for coins will require people to reach across each other to get to the shift button whenever inserting coins (a lot), unless there are multiple shift buttons (which kind of defeats the purpose).

As mentioned, 4 across is for NEO GEO games (and many other 4 button games).  I prefer the fourth button on the right, for the pinky, not the thumb.  There are a lot of good arguments for each side of this here:

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=43016

[PL1]

+1 on dedicated start and coin button for each player.  Using a shift button for coins will require people to reach across each other to get to the shift button whenever inserting coins (a lot), unless there are multiple shift buttons (which kind of defeats the purpose).

There is an easy way to do a 1-button shifted function using two diodes like the switches on the right of this diagram from GGG.


The biggest problem with shifted functions still remains that you can accidently trigger unintended functions during multi-player gaming.


Scott

[Nephasth]

The biggest problem with shifted functions still remains that you can accidently trigger unintended functions during multi-player gaming.

If your shift button is easily accessable...

[Felsir]

I am also still looking for suggestions on what to do with the control panel art, if there are any graphic experts out there with an opinion or idea!

Do you want a TMNT themed cab or do you want to replicate the arcade art? The jump and attack labels are covering parts of the artwork and I haven't been able to find that background so removing those labels will be a hard thing to do.

So I looked for some high quality graphics of the Turtles and fired up Photoshop, as an example of about 30 minutes of work. You can make artwork that matches the style and layout of your cabinet. In my opinion the joystick/button layout should come first and the graphics should be build around that.

[PL1]

The biggest problem with shifted functions still remains that you can accidently trigger unintended functions during multi-player gaming.

If your shift button is easily accessable...

With all due respect, Nep, accessibility is not the major issue here.

My point assumes that your encoder outputs shifted keystrokes like these:
Menu (Tab) = Shift + P1 Joy Right
P2 Coin (6) = Shift + P2B1

If P1 is moving to the right when P2 Coin (6 = Shift + P2B1) is pressed, the encoder will also combine the Shift with P1 Joy Right and bring up the Menu. (Tab = Shift + P1 Joy Right)

This will not happen if your encoder has discrete inputs and you use MAME for combination button functions such as P1 Start (1) + P2 Start (2) = Exit


Scott

[Nephasth]

Depends on your encoder I guess. My Lono² has different modes (set on start up) to handle the shift function in different ways. In one mode, there is only one shift input on P1's header that turns all the other inputs (across all 4 headers) into possible shifted functions. However, in another mode, each header (player) has it's own shift input that only turns the other inputs in that particular header into possible shifted functions. So the multiplayer thing isn't an issue with the Lono².

[PL1]

Good info about the Lono2.

It has 72 inputs so odds are you don't need to use shifted functions to increase your inputs unless you have a SERIOUS Franken-panel.   

Not so much luck avoiding shifted functions if you're trying to use a single KADE for a 2-Player 6-Button setup -- I recommend adding a second KADE instead.

If the KADE team finds a reasonably-priced AVR with 24+ inputs , that will be a huge leap forward.


Scott

[Nephasth]

The best reason to use a shift function is to keep the number of buttons on a CP at a minimum.

[GrandJudge]

Do you want a TMNT themed cab or do you want to replicate the arcade art? The jump and attack labels are covering parts of the artwork and I haven't been able to find that background so removing those labels will be a hard thing to do.

So I looked for some high quality graphics of the Turtles and fired up Photoshop, as an example of about 30 minutes of work. You can make artwork that matches the style and layout of your cabinet. In my opinion the joystick/button layout should come first and the graphics should be build around that.

Yeah, I am interested in replicating the arcade art as long as it is possible. I have seen a couple of neat control panel art for TMNT that may work. If that is the case I will just have to possibly rethink the rest of the art too. Was really hoping for that original CP art without those white holes in it, so I could place the buttons where I wish. Good art though!

If P1 is moving to the right when P2 Coin (6 = Shift + P2B1) is pressed, the encoder will also combine the Shift with P1 Joy Right and bring up the Menu. (Tab = Shift + P1 Joy Right)

This will not happen if your encoder has discrete inputs and you use MAME for combination button functions such as P1 Start (1) + P2 Start (2) = Exit

Ahh good point. I will have to experiment with buttons on some cardboard and figure out how I really want to do that yet.

[PL1]

Agreed, Nep.

Some people prefer shifted functions and some prefer dedicated admin buttons.

I'm just pointing out that there are advantages and disadvantages to both shifted functions and dedicated admin buttons so people can make an informed decision on which is the best choice for them.   

Once that choice is made, it can influence which encoder to use.


Scott