Help me like my Omni2 stick

[notbillcosby]

I want to start by saying I'm not here to bash a product, manufacturer, or online store. GGG has been great to me and has offered me tons of help and I'm happy to do business with them in the future. This is simply my experience and personal opinion on a stick.


Way back when my arcade lust started and I got a simple X-Arcade so I could play Pac-Man on my computer, I also ordered an OMNI2 4/8-way stick from GroovyGameGear. After doing lots of research on a switchable stick, it sounded like the best option. Long story short? I hate the way it feels. It totally doesn't work for me at all. The stick feels sluggish and gummy and not particularly responsive. At first I thought it was due to having too long of a travel, so i got a nylon spacer and sanded down the inside to fit around the actuator that was on the stick so that there would be a shorter throw within the restrictor plate... didn't help. On GGG's suggestion, I tried stretching out the spring a little to give a snappier feel; if anything that might've made it feel more stiff. I've lubed the cup that that the stick sits in with petroleum jelly, i've tried different length and tension springs from the hardware store, and I really can't find a combination that makes this stick feel smooth, light, and quick. My Happ competition sticks feel great but don't have the 4-way action that I need for Pac-Man. Gummy is the word that comes to mind when I feel the action on my OMNI2. Does anyone have suggestions for what I can do to make this work a little better without putting more money into it? It seems like a sturdy stick that should totally tickle my pickle but it sure doesn't. Before someone tells me to get a restrictor plate for my Happ, I should mention that I already have one, and that's not what this thread is about.

Also, if no one has suggestions for other things to try, I'd be happy to sell this to someone who likes these kinds of sticks. I don't think there's anything physically wrong with it, it just might not be my bag.

[rCadeGaming]

On GGG's suggestion, I tried stretching out the spring a little to give a snappier feel; if anything that might've made it feel more stiff.

It's supposed to.  More spring tension = faster return to center = "snappier". 

If more tension isn't actually causing it to return to center faster, then you've got too much friction.  Not enough lube in the right places, or the stick is just poorly designed.

I really can't find a combination that makes this stick feel smooth, light, and quick.

Not entirely sure this is what you mean, but I think you might want opposing qualities.  If by light you mean low tension/stiffness, and by quick you mean returns to center quickly, then you can't have both.

Or by quick do you mean shorter engage/throw distances?  You might be able to mod the actuator for that.

Sounds like if you really hate the stick you should just stop using it.  If you're picky then find your favorite 4-way stick and your favorite 8-way stick and use both.  Trying to compromise the two together is asking a lot.

[notbillcosby]

Hi Friend! Sounds like I should explain better or something.

First things first: I'm making my cabinet have dedicated panels for 4-way and 8-way stuff that you can swap out as you please. This feels like it should be a sturdy, well made stick and I "should" like it in 4-way mode, so I figured I might as well try to fix whatever might be wrong with it to try it out as an option for my 4-way panel. When I was just using the X-Arcade it was important to have it switch from 4 to 8, but it isn't anymore. So that's not an issue.

Anyway... Stretching the spring out didn't make it return to center any faster, it just feels like maybe there's too much pressure now, pushing against the stick or something, and it's keeping it from moving freely. Not saying that's specifically what's happening, it just *feels* like it.

I want the motion of the stick to be smooth and not feel like parts are rubbing together, but it feels like parts are rubbing together. I've Vaseline'd everything that makes sense, and it still feels like it's not sliding smoothly. I don't care if it takes a little effort to move the stick, as I'm kind of a "full body" Pac-Man player who gets into it a liiitle too much. There's no 'snap' to how it centers itself though. I feel like if I'm using a stick that i have to lean into a little, it should pop right back to center, but this just feels... i don't know. Wrong. I wonder if taking a video of it would even show how it behaves, or if it would be lost in translation. I know I'm not the only one who's not into the stick- my Ms. Pac-Man partner in crime was also pretty unenthusiastic about it before and after any of my mods.

Do you like these sticks? Want a good deal on one that may need a little love?

[rCadeGaming]

I've never used that stick, sounds like it has a crappy pivot quality.

I prefer JLF's for most things.  Stock for fighters, and modded for reduced engage and throw for other things, especially Shmups.

What kind of restrictor shape do you want for 4-way?  The JLF can do circle and diamond.  An LS-32 is good for a clover shape.  If you're really into Pac-Man, you should probably look into a reunion stick:

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=32046.0

[Le Chuck]

I've never used that stick, sounds like it has a crappy pivot quality.

I'd lean towards "it's probably not your bag" rather than to start calling the product crappy since you've never used one.

To the OP: I have several of these sticks.  I'd say the feel is very similar to a seimitsu IMO.  There isn't a lot you're going to do to change the fundamental feel of the stick but it sounds like you may have over stretched your spring in an attempt to get a different feel.  I would say that mine do slide freely and I have mine set to an almost loose feel. If it isn't responsive perhaps you should check the microswitches and ensure that they're properly set. 

Not every stick is for everybody, I'm sure you could find somebody to take that stick off your hands so you can get something that might feel a bit better for you in the way of a dedicated 4 way.

[mgb]

I use Jlws with stiff springs. I tried the the omni2 and had issues with it actually grinding a little. I'm not sure if it was something I did or not but I know the JLW is built better and they don't give me any grief.
I ended up taking the mod parts from the omni2 and putting them on my JLW. All it is, is some 6/32 screws with nuts and washers and a plastic screw on nub

[PL1]

petroleum jelly

Vaseline

Maybe I missed where this has been labeled as a suitable substitute for Molykote 44 or Super Lube, but your choice of lubricants could be a contributing factor here.

See this thead for details including a confirmation that this is what RandyT uses.




Scott

[notbillcosby]

Cool, that's good to know. THanks!

[RandyT]

Using non-synthetic (i.e. petroleum based) lubes on plastics is not good.  Neither are spray lubricants, as they often have some pretty strong solvents which can eat into the surface of the plastic.  Very thick lubes like Vaseline will gum up and contribute to a sluggish feel.

All joysticks are different, and someone who has become accustomed to a Happ Competition, will likely not feel at home with an OMNI2, JLW, etc...  They use different mechanical centering approaches.  The Competition, Super, etc.. use a "fulcrum" centering device.  It's literally like placing a soup can on a flat surface and tipping it. Once you get it moving (breaking center position) it moves pretty easily and will snap back to that harder center very quickly due to the spring tension.  The OMNI2, JLW, JLF, etc...use a ball-joint.  They have a much smoother center release, but the spring tension is more important in the equation.  Too loose, and it won't return to center well.  Too strong, and the same thing can happen as it makes the ball pull tighter into the socket and can also accelerate wear.  These are the trade-offs for a stick which has a smoother action through the center point.  It should also be noted that a very strong switch can aid in faster centering on this type of stick, if that is what is desired.  Unfortunately, switches with this property also tend to be quite loud.

RandyT

[notbillcosby]

Hi Randy! I don't suppose you have an extra spring you could send my way, do you? Maybe some good lube, my clickier switches, and the correct spring would fix my issues. I would love to use this stick!

[RandyT]

The mods you have made to the stick may have taken it beyond the point of simple tweaks.  The first thing you should probably do is attempt to reverse anything you've already done.  Clean out the Vaseline with something like isopropyl, as it is usually ok to use on nylon.  Inspect the socket, and if it's still ok, then lightly lube with something like the SuperLube shown above.  If the spring is already stretched too far, you can put it in a vise, adjust it to the size you want and heat it with a propane torch.  When it cools, it should retain the size.  You can purchase several different springs from other sources, if you would rather go that route, but tuning one to your specific desires may be the better approach.  If you don't mind the noise, look for some 100gram force micros.  We don't carry these, as there is little demand.

There are pages on the web devoted to the tuning of these kinds of sticks, as they are popular among the fighter crowd who demand more from their controls.  They also tend to be very meticulous when it comes to maintenance.  There's a lot of good info out there on the subject.

But in the end, they will probably never feel like a Happ Competition.  If that's what you are shooting for, then you'd be better off sticking with that type of stick.  The folks who use the Japanese-style designs tend not to like them as much, but that's why there are so many options.  It really is a preference thing.

[TGov]

I have an Omni2 as well and can't say that I am a fan of it.  The action is just too light for me and it will often 'stick' in the right position.

[RandyT]

I have an Omni2 as well and can't say that I am a fan of it.  The action is just too light for me and it will often 'stick' in the right position.

If it is sticking , that's not normal operation.  Contact me by email, and I will see what can be done to address the issue.

RandyT

[rCadeGaming]

I'd lean towards "it's probably not your bag" rather than to start calling the product crappy since you've never used one.

I never said it was definitely crappy.  I said it sounded crappy from his description, which is true.  It also sounds crappy from MGB's description, and TGov's description.

I'd agree with the suggestions above.  Clean it thoroughly with rubbing alcohol and replace the lube with proper Molykote 44.  This is what I do on all my sticks.

[RandyT]

I never said it was definitely crappy.  I said it sounded crappy from his description, which is true.  It also sounds crappy from MGB's description, and TGov's description.

Considering that we have shipped these in the hundreds, a few negative comments isn't much of a consensus.  Unfortunately, with a mass produced item, it's inevitable that a couple of issues could arise once put into actual use.  We test all of them before they get shipped, but beyond that, there's not much we can do, other than provide support after the sale.  Everyone uses controls differently, so a particular stick that may hold up fine forever with someone who uses their fingertips on the ball to control the game, may not not fare as well with a player who rocks the machine every time they make a move.  Like any assembly with  moving parts, wear will make a difference in performance.  When that wear manifests into something noticeable will based on a number of factors, including a possible "dud" from the factory, from which no item is immune.

Clean it thoroughly with rubbing alcohol and replace the lube with proper Molykote 44.  This is what I do on all my sticks.

This seems to be the most recommended lube for this type of stick.  I'll get some to compare with the SuperLube, which is pretty amazing stuff.  SL is also viscous enough to stay put, which is important in this application.

[rCadeGaming]

Considering that we have shipped these in the hundreds, a few negative comments isn't much of a consensus.

Never said it was, the statement clearly qualified is simply based on what was said right here.

Molykote 44.

This seems to be the most recommended lube for this type of stick.  I'll get some to compare with the SuperLube, which is pretty amazing stuff.  SL is also viscous enough to stay put, which is important in this application.

Supposedly Molykote 44 is the same chemical makeup as the "official" Shin-Etsu grease recommended by Sanwa.

I haven't tried SuperLube, interested in your comparison.

[TGov]

I have an Omni2 as well and can't say that I am a fan of it.  The action is just too light for me and it will often 'stick' in the right position.

If it is sticking , that's not normal operation.  Contact me by email, and I will see what can be done to address the issue.

RandyT

Will do Randy, thank you.

[notbillcosby]

So, I undid the accuator mod, isopropyled (sure, that's a verb now) the petroleum jelly out of there, and hit it with some Super Lube, the bottle of which should last me for the next 25 years. It's back to feeling a lot more responsive, and while it still isn't my preferred stick to use for everything, it is a marked improvement and I plan on keeping it around. I think I'm going to keep it in 8-way mode and use it as a diagonal stick for Zaxxon, Q-Bert, and the like. Maybe the diagonal stick will hang out on my track ball/spinner CP that I plan on making down the road, when I can't resist Tempest and Centipede any longer. Or, maybe I'll just have a dedicated diagonal-stick panel. Whatever!

My point is- Super Lube helped. Thanks for the tips!

[RandyT]

... and hit it with some Super Lube, the bottle of which should last me for the next 25 years.

You'll use it.  It's good for just about anything that squeaks or needs to move easier.  Once you start using it around the house, car, shop, etc., you'll wonder how you lived without it