PC Hardware Specification

[wcndave]

I am sure there are threads on this, however cannot find one. Please feel free to just point me to one.

Seems that MAME started more than a decade ago, and that the processing power of computers in the last 5 years so far outstrips that of the 80's it's amazing.

However looking at most builds, people are using fairly kick ass computers were possible.

And I must say I have an atom mini-atx with a 1.6GHz CPU and 4GM RAM and it does seem a little slow when there is lots going on, e.g. lots of characters on screen. in mslug.

is it just the graphics card that is important if all else is fairly modern? (my mini-PC has only onboard)

And why do so many seem to lay everything out on a board when PC cases exist that would easily house it all, keep it cooler, and prevent dust build up?

thanks

Dave

[lilshawn]

the atom family just isn't a great processor. The lack of a decent sized cache on the processor is a real hindrance.

[PL1]

There are several variables at play in this question:

1. MAME software - Earlier versions require less computing horsepower.  As more games are supported and the emulation gets better, the hardware requirements increase.

2. Computer hardware - The computer industry "arms race" of software vs. hardware race is constant.  As each side adds features or speed improvements, it encourages the other to do the same to keep up with them.  The good news is that this competition drives down the cost of getting relatively recent generation hardware.

3. Video cards - Most MAME games don't use the GPU.  They rely on the CPU for rendering IIRC.  Other software like Visual Pinball is more likely to tap into the GPU.

However looking at most builds, people are using fairly kick ass computers were possible.

And I must say I have an atom mini-atx with a 1.6GHz CPU and 4GM RAM and it does seem a little slow when there is lots going on, e.g. lots of characters on screen. in mslug.

Why use the higher end system? See #2 above.  They are trying to get ahead of the arms race so they can run current software without lag/stutter and they have more wiggle room if they decide to upgrade their software. 

Either that or they have their heart set on using Hyperspin.   

Why does your system seem slow? See lilshawn's earlier post. 

is it just the graphics card that is important if all else is fairly modern? (my mini-PC has only onboard)

As per #3 above, unless you are running the newer 3d games or VP, the graphics card isn't going to make much difference.  Related thread  here.

And why do so many seem to lay everything out on a board when PC cases exist that would easily house it all, keep it cooler, and prevent dust build up?

Some people upgrade their motherboard and use the old one in the cab, others buy just the MB/CPU/memory to keep costs down.

For cooling, some PC cases don't allow enough air circulation.

For dust, depends on the location and the build.

Why lay it out flat on a board?  Because it's easier/faster than mounting it to the side wall and most people don't plan ahead for dust control/mitigation.


Scott

[wcndave]

Hey Scott, thanks for the detailed response!

1. MAME software - Earlier versions require less computing horsepower.  As more games are supported and the emulation gets better, the hardware requirements increase.

You must be right, however it just surprises me, since 1997, CPU gone up from 133MHz to 2GHz 4core = 64 fold increase.  RAM from 16MB to 4GB = 256 fold increase.  Yet the ROMs are all the same... and ran on PCs from that age fine... hence my query really.

2. Computer hardware - The computer industry "arms race" of software vs. hardware race is constant.  As each side adds features or speed improvements, it encourages the other to do the same to keep up with them.  The good news is that this competition drives down the cost of getting relatively recent generation hardware.

Didn't think this would apply much to MAME as it has a specific purpose, the roots of which are fixed in time.

3. Video cards - Most MAME games don't use the GPU.  They rely on the CPU for rendering IIRC.  Other software like Visual Pinball is more likely to tap into the GPU.

good to know, so if I get a MB, then any decent GP from last 3 years would be ok.

Either that or they have their heart set on using Hyperspin.   

this would make sense, needing better performance to run fancy front ends...

Some people upgrade their motherboard and use the old one in the cab, others buy just the MB/CPU/memory to keep costs down.

For cooling, some PC cases don't allow enough air circulation.

Looking at the projects, most people are going to have a case lying around, or get an old one off ebay for $5, and it actually improves cooling quite significantly by creating a sort of wind tunnel.  You don't want circulation, you want air coming in and out.  in any case most people here seem to do a lot of modding, so would be able to mod a case.  I think I will use an old case (have about 30 having been in computers for 20 years and throwing nothing away), just a shame I cannot reuse all that old kit to run a 2MB game from 1980's as SWMBO's condition was to get rid of some of the old rubbish... skip here i come!

Thanks again!

[BadMouth]

Metal Slug slowed down on the original hardware which is accurately emulated in MAME.
It's a poor game to judge things by.

[wcndave]

heh, that is ironic...

[paigeoliver]

Just downgrade your mame version and all your problems will go away. Current mame may have a lot more titles, but decade old mame was a much better experience. The old versions still run fine on modern hardware.

[Haze]

Just downgrade your mame version and all your problems will go away. Current mame may have a lot more titles, but decade old mame was a much better experience. The old versions still run fine on modern hardware.

decade old mame gives a much better experience *IF YOUR CURRENT HARDWARE IS INADEQUATE*

I really wish people would stop recycling the same old crud because the qualifier I've added is very important.

Newer MAME will give a far better experience than older versions as long as your hardware is good enough.  Literally millions of bugs have been fixed since your decade old versions, if you wish to run older versions complete with their bugs an inaccurate emulations of the hardware feel free to do so, but stop claiming it's somehow better than current versions, it really, really isn't.

This is why it depresses me that things like the Pi are so underpowered, because you're throwing away at least 10 years of hard work if you want to performance levels the feeble CPU can deal with.

Continually saying 'older versions are better, period' is borderline insulting to the people who have worked on the project improving each and every piece of it over the years.  The cases which are worst affected by performance requirement increases tend to be the ones which the MOST work has been done on, to bring the emulation closer than ever to the real hardware.

MAME has always had higher requirements than other emulators, and thus always required a PC in the higher end of the 'current systems' bracket to run things well, so I'd go as far as saying the 'older MAME gave a better experience' isn't even factual from a historical point of view, the same applied, if you had inadequate hardware back in the day it ran badly even back in the day.

If anything due to CPU speeds only seeing marginal increases over the past few years it's cheaper than ever to get a good machine for MAME, it does however mean the 'top end' games have remained out of reach.

Yes this bugs me because I'm sick to death of people reporting bugs to me because they're running ancient versions.  If I fixed a bug *10* years ago, I don't want people telling me that MAME is garbage because XX is broken simply because people keep trotting out that older versions are better and as a result people keep using them and finding the 'fixed 10 years ago' bugs.  The GP2X versions were the worst when that was popular because to get anywhere near good performance they were not only using ancient versions, but hacking drivers resulting in improper music speed, worse priorities etc.  It seems some people expect mamedev to apply every bugfix ever made to every version ever released *and* not have the performance change one tiny bit as a result, what else am I meant to think when people ask me when I'm going to fix things I fixed so long ago?

Having to use an old version is not a good thing, it's not something you should be proud of, it should be seen as a last resort, or makeshift solution to a problem of having inadequate hardware.

[mcseforsale]

I'm running mame 1.63 on a pentium4 with 1GB of ram.  So far, I haven't found anything that didn't run correctly.  Mamewah is the best frontend I could run since things like Hyperspin need better graphics acceleration and I'm not really interested in it yet. 

Games that surprisingly run on my box:
1.) Killer Instinct
2.) Killer Instinct 2
3.) Street Fighter 3
4.) Most NeoGeo games
5.) several versions of metal slug
6.) Daphne titles such as Dragon's Lair, Dragon's Lair II, and Space Ace.

I'm also emulating Atari 2600, Nintendo 64, Super NES.

Emulators requiring disc images, such as game cube, PS1,2,3 or others will not run on a P4.  You'll need a dual core for that such as a Core Duo, i3, i5, etc. (or their AMD counterparts).

I'm also running Windows XP with Mamewah as the front end.

AJ

[PL1]

1. MAME software - Earlier versions require less computing horsepower.  As more games are supported and the emulation gets better, the hardware requirements increase.

You must be right, however it just surprises me, since 1997, CPU gone up from 133MHz to 2GHz 4core = 64 fold increase.  RAM from 16MB to 4GB = 256 fold increase.  Yet the ROMs are all the same... and ran on PCs from that age fine... hence my query really.

2. Computer hardware - The computer industry "arms race" of software vs. hardware race is constant.  As each side adds features or speed improvements, it encourages the other to do the same to keep up with them.  The good news is that this competition drives down the cost of getting relatively recent generation hardware.

Didn't think this would apply much to MAME as it has a specific purpose, the roots of which are fixed in time.

The part that you're focusing on is the ROMs instead of MAME advancements.

The ROMs are pretty much the same (some better dumps, etc.) but the software that simulates the original hardware (MAME) is increasingly complex and accurate.

The changes in MAME are like the changes in operating systems.  Win 7 needs more CPU and memory than Win 95, even though they are different generations of the same Microsoft Operating System that perform the same basic functions and purpose, the roots of which are similarly fixed in time.   


Scott

[wcndave]

ok, then respect to the guys at mamedev.  i didn't think it could change that much.  i pictured in my mind what it takes to run Doom and what it takes to run Halo, and all emulation aside, it's a whole different world.   guess i'll just have to cough up!

cheers for the clarification!