3D Game Performance in MAME

[TheShaner]

I am curious what kind of horse power you need to effectively play some of the 3D games out there like Killer Instinct and Tekken.  When I put together the computer portion of my cabinet, I didnt think I needed too much power to run MAME.  So I built an Intel 2.6 dual core with 2g of memory.  It works fine, until I get to 3D games.  Then the sound stutters terribly and things run slow.  Am I correct to think I need more power, or might I be able to overcome this with some tweaking?  I am currently running an ArcadeVGA 3000 video card from Ultimarc.

[ABACABB]

I have had a few different mame PCs over the last 2 years and here's what I can tell you.  First off I am running MAMEUI .141.  I had a Pentium 4 @ 3.0ghz and it ran Killer Instinct 1 and 2 fine, no problems.  But I could only play Tekken 1 on that machine.  I tested things out on my laptop which is a first gen Core-i5 @2.2ghz, but 64-bit MAME which gives a performance boost over 32-bit, and I could run Tekken 2 but Tekken 3 was still a little slow.  Approx 85-90% speed on the laptop.  Then I got a first gen core-i5 650 desktop @ 3.2ghz and all Tekkens in MAME (1,2,3 and Tag Tournement) run full speed continuosly.  Only game on my system that this pc had problems with is NFL Blitz.  Blitz was mostly playable but had a small amount of sound stutter.  So finally I have a 2nd gen core i-3 @ 3.3ghz (desktop) and this runs NFL Blitz at full speed continuously.  Blitz is my favorite game so this is big for me.  I also know that Blitz is one of the most demanding MAME games that is currently playable so since Blitz runs, I assume most everything else in MAME would run fine also.  The only excpetions I know of that this still struggles with is San Francisco Rush/California Speed and Gauntlet Dark Legacy.

I hope this helps.  All of my PCs except for the Pentium 4 are running Win 7 64-bit which, as I stated, does help a little with 3d performance.

[kahlid74]

If you search/dig deep enough you'll find the thread that talks about this.  For the 3D games you'll need something in the 8-9 GHz range of processing power (So a Core i5 at 3Ghz with four cores).  I want to say Blitz99 used the most at north of 10 but I'll see if I can dig up the thread on it.

If you want to run all 3D games closest to non stutter you'll need a Core i5/7.

[ABACABB]

If you search/dig deep enough you'll find the thread that talks about this.  For the 3D games you'll need something in the 8-9 GHz range of processing power (So a Core i5 at 3Ghz with four cores).  I want to say Blitz99 used the most at north of 10 but I'll see if I can dig up the thread on it.

If you want to run all 3D games closest to non stutter you'll need a Core i5/7.

True, if you are running a Pentium 4, it would have to be in the 10ghz range to run NFL Blitz at full speed.  But these discussions came out before 64-bit operating systems and before the major architecture changes in the processors making them more efficient.  So you do not need a Core-i5 or i7 with 4 cores because MAME only uses 2 anyways.  So if you're looking for the best performance in MAME get the fastest DUAL core processor you can afford.  Any more cores and you're wasting your money, if we're stritctly talking about MAME. 

As I stated above, my 2nd gen core-i3 (2 cores) @ 3.3ghz runs Blitz full speed.  This is nowhere near the 8-10ghz range that was predicted years ago.

[shponglefan]

Intel E8400 here (dual core 3 GHz) on Windows 7 w/ 8 gigs of RAM.  I've had no issues running the aforementioned 3D games (Tekken series, KI, etc).

[griffindodd]

I've only got a Dual Core Celeron at 2.4 Sandybridge with Intel HD3000 onboard GPU and even that handles 3D no problem at 1920x1080, 8GB Ram, Win 7 x64

[Diet_Pepsi]

  Any more cores and you're wasting your money, if we're stritctly talking about MAME. 

I am not sure I agree with that statement for the following reasons:

1.  Several current quad-core offerings (eg. i5-2500k) can be overclocked and can run two of their four cores faster than your i3 can.  With these chips Gauntlet DL and SFRush are playable with no issues.
2.  My i5-2400 runs Blitz @ 100%, but in doing so all four cores are in use at well over 50%.  This means one of two things:
     (a) Mame is fully utilizing 2 of the 4 cores, and a number of non-mame tasks are being run on the other two cores, bringing the overall usage to above 50% (which supports having more than 2 cores)
     (b) Mame is using more than 2 cores.

[ABACABB]

  Any more cores and you're wasting your money, if we're stritctly talking about MAME. 

I am not sure I agree with that statement for the following reasons:

1.  Several current quad-core offerings (eg. i5-2500k) can be overclocked and can run two of their four cores faster than your i3 can.  With these chips Gauntlet DL and SFRush are playable with no issues.
2.  My i5-2400 runs Blitz @ 100%, but in doing so all four cores are in use at well over 50%.  This means one of two things:
     (a) Mame is fully utilizing 2 of the 4 cores, and a number of non-mame tasks are being run on the other two cores, bringing the overall usage to above 50% (which supports having more than 2 cores)
     (b) Mame is using more than 2 cores.

Hmmmmm.....interesting Diet Pepsi.  I get what you are saying so I double checked on the mamedev site FAQ section.  I could swear that about 2 years ago when I read through there it specifically said that MAME could only utilize 2 cores.  Well it's not there now!!!!!  It does mention multi-core systems but does not get specific.  Technically 2 cores is multi core.  I know they are making progress all the time with MAME so maybe I have to retract my previous statement?? Does MAME now use more than 2 cores?? Sounds like it might.....

[BadMouth]

What's the fastest processor that will work with your mobo?

From my experience, Killer Instinct should be running full speed or close to it with what you have, and Tekken stops having sound skips around 3Ghz.  You need a lot more than that to run Blitz.  Using a 64 bit OS and MAME64 makes a big difference for certain games, Blitz in particular.
I always use Black Viper's guide to disable all services that aren't needed, including networking.
http://www.blackviper.com/ (under popular content)
I'm still using xp32 on my main setup because I have some accessories that 64 bit drivers don't exist for.  It has a 2.9Ghz Athlon X3 and runs Tekken full speed, but IIRC, for Tekken 3 or Tag, I'm running a clone that ran faster.

I've run similar Athlon X2 and Athlon X3 processors and believe the third core does make a noticeable difference.  Presumeably by handling overhead.  I settled on 3.4Ghz Athlon X3's as the budget sweet spot for my driving cab and current build. (I buy stuff piecemeal from Newegg when I see a component cheap)
I'm not really recommending AMD here, they were just the best value at the time.   I'd fork over the money for an i5 if building today.

Just had a run with Blitz on my new cab that runs a 3.4Ghz X3 w/Vista 64 (for DirectX11).
It's fully playable, but has some slight sound issues. 
There are some Shmups that don't run full speed in Demul.
Most of them run full speed using Makaron, but a couple of them feel like they need a few more Ghz.

It always irks me when people steer new builders toward processors too slow to even run Tekken.

[TheShaner]

Good info guys. I've had to stick with 32bit because I had problems with the video card drivers working, but I may try and revisit it.

[Diet_Pepsi]

Good info guys. I've had to stick with 32bit because I had problems with the video card drivers working, but I may try and revisit it.

Out of curiosity, which specific roms are you having trouble with?  I was just able to run tekken on my laptop (2.4ghz core 2 duo, xp 32-bit) with no issues.

And what type of processor do you have?  Is it a pentium G620?

[TheShaner]

I have the exact same stutter issue with every single 3d game I play.  It could be MK4, KI1 or 2, Tekken ... really anything that has 3D in it.  I will get my processor info here during lunch.

I will also give a whirl at tuning the PC during lunch as well.

[BadMouth]

I have the exact same stutter issue with every single 3d game I play.  It could be MK4, KI1 or 2, Tekken ... really anything that has 3D in it.  I will get my processor info here during lunch.

I will also give a whirl at tuning the PC during lunch as well.

You're a long way from playing MK4. 
You have very high expectations only a screamer of a PC could almost meet.
I see an i5 2500k in your future.

My alienware laptop has an i7-2760QM (2.4Ghz, 3.5Ghz "turbo") and can run MK4, Blitz, Gauntlet Legends, & Ridge Racer at 100%.
There will always be games that are fully emulated, but won't play full speed until faster processors come out.

EDIT: After actually playing a few rounds of MK4 on my laptop, it doesn't really run at 100%, but hovers between 90-100%.
It's very playable with minor sound skips, but isn't 100%.  This is with anti-virus running though.

[TheShaner]

I have the exact same stutter issue with every single 3d game I play.  It could be MK4, KI1 or 2, Tekken ... really anything that has 3D in it.  I will get my processor info here during lunch.

I will also give a whirl at tuning the PC during lunch as well.

You're a long way from playing MK4. 
You have very high expectations only a screamer of a PC could almost meet.
I see an i5 2500k in your future.

My alienware laptop has an i7-2760QM (2.4Ghz, 3.5Ghz "turbo") and can run MK4, Blitz, Gauntlet Legends, & Ridge Racer at 100%.
There will always be games that are fully emulated, but won't play full speed until faster processors come out.

I dont mind dishing out the coin on a good motherboard/cup combo, I've put so much into this project that it would be silly not to.  I just want to make sure that I purchase wisely this time and get something that is going to last for me.  I believe MK4 will be the most current game on my list as I have plans to build a more modern pedestal based machine to handle newer console games and other high end games.

So with that said .. I will look into i5 2500 K's, unless anyone has a better suggestions.  They seem to be running around $300-$400 for motherboard/cpu/mem combos (Intel Chip w/Asus mobo), which really isnt that bad. 

[brad808]

I have the exact same stutter issue with every single 3d game I play.  It could be MK4, KI1 or 2, Tekken ... really anything that has 3D in it.  I will get my processor info here during lunch.

I will also give a whirl at tuning the PC during lunch as well.

You're a long way from playing MK4. 
You have very high expectations only a screamer of a PC could almost meet.
I see an i5 2500k in your future.

My alienware laptop has an i7-2760QM (2.4Ghz, 3.5Ghz "turbo") and can run MK4, Blitz, Gauntlet Legends, & Ridge Racer at 100%.
There will always be games that are fully emulated, but won't play full speed until faster processors come out.

I dont mind dishing out the coin on a good motherboard/cup combo, I've put so much into this project that it would be silly not to.  I just want to make sure that I purchase wisely this time and get something that is going to last for me.  I believe MK4 will be the most current game on my list as I have plans to build a more modern pedestal based machine to handle newer console games and other high end games.

So with that said .. I will look into i5 2500 K's, unless anyone has a better suggestions.  They seem to be running around $300-$400 for motherboard/cpu/mem combos (Intel Chip w/Asus mobo), which really isnt that bad.

Before you build a machine for mk4 make sure you run it to see all the graphical problems with it. My machine runs it full speed but I won't put it in my playable list until the graphics are corrected because it affects the game play

Sent from my Desire HD

[TheShaner]

Before you build a machine for mk4 make sure you run it to see all the graphical problems with it. My machine runs it full speed but I won't put it in my playable list until the graphics are corrected because it affects the game play

Thanks Brad.  I could really care less about mk4, it is just my target.  While a huge fan of the MK series, I stopped really playing them around mk3.  I do want really want to get tekken and killer instinct working though.

[BadMouth]

Before you build a machine for mk4 make sure you run it to see all the graphical problems with it. My machine runs it full speed but I won't put it in my playable list until the graphics are corrected because it affects the game play

So that's why Sub-Zero had constant puffs of smoke in front of him?!
lol, this is the first time I'd ran the game on a system fast enough to run it.

[brad808]

Before you build a machine for mk4 make sure you run it to see all the graphical problems with it. My machine runs it full speed but I won't put it in my playable list until the graphics are corrected because it affects the game play

So that's why Sub-Zero had constant puffs of smoke in front of him?!
lol, this is the first time I'd ran the game on a system fast enough to run it.

Yea there are a lot, raiden has very bad special moves, lightning simply comes out as large black boxes flying across the screen. There also appears to be weird things happening when you get close to the edge, players will disappear and reappear, the views will go all haywire. Like I said it's not really playable, unless you very badly want mk4 for some reason and are willing to sacrifice.

Sent from my Desire HD

[Haze]

99% of the issues in MK4 come down to a missing additive blend mode, it's probably a really simple fix if somebody could figure out how it actually gets enabled

[brad808]

99% of the issues in MK4 come down to a missing additive blend mode, it's probably a really simple fix if somebody could figure out how it actually gets enabled

I think for most of us it surpassed simple at "additive blend mode" 

[ABACABB]

 I do want really want to get tekken and killer instinct working though.

question here, what version of MAME are you running?  Because your current system should run KI easily at full speed.  I revall that older versions of MAME struggled with this game but newer versions of MAME run it fine.  As I stated before it ran fullspeed for me on a Pentium 4 @ 3.0, 1 GB of RAM and integrated graphics on WinXP 32 bit.  Maybe just try a newer version of MAME and KI might just run great for you now.

[mamenewb100]

I have an Intel core2 duo 2.5 Ghz processor and KI 1 and 2 run no problem. However the sound will hiccup in GroovyMame if you don't turn on Triple Buffering (at least for me).

[Brian74]

I just upgraded my pc to a 3.4 i5 3570k, all cores unlocked and 8 gigs of 1600ghz ram. The video card is a evga 560 superclocked. All the games mentioned in this post besides mk4 run at 100%. Im using win7 64 and mame64.

[dholcombe]

i5 3570k or 17 3770k are the way to go here I would think. Unless you plan on extreme overclocking in which case the old Sandy Bridge may work better. If you live with what you have for now and put the project off until March-April of next year there will likely be better options, but they would also require a new motherboard in all likelihood.

[bizkonson]

@the Shaner - hey man I saw your project a few days ago and I must say that's an awesome work dude, love the theme and the green leds.
Sweet arcade machine.

Regarding the hardware I had the same problem and was looking for a cheap way to solve it and I found the following solution:
I5 750 2.66 stock running at 3.3 overclocked with the Msi p55 fuzion motherboard it works with all video card and can run ati&gforce together.
You can overlook it even to 4 with no problem but you need better cooling and higher then default voltage.
Also the mobo have the over lock gene makes it easy to overclock if you don't know overlooking but I didn't like it because of the high voltage it uses.

This is 2 year old hardware its cheap and solves the issue for now.

[RyoriNoTetsujin]

Just to add to the info here:

My mobo doesn't allow for OC or "turbo", so I'm no help there, but my i5-2500K runs Blitz, Gauntlet, SF Rush, Tekken Tag 1, KI2, etc. at 100%+ (including HLSL) at stock 3.3Ghz, stock HD 3000 gpu. (Win7 x64, mame64, mameUI64.)

I can't say with certainty that MAME runs on more than 2 cores, but it certainly appears to! Running Blitz in a window while watching CPU Usage in Task Manager seems to hit all 4 cores equally.

MK4's problem is in the emulation.  As of right now, it runs right on the cusp; 96-100% most of the time, some sound stuttering/glitching and the aforementioned graphical garbage. Turn off HLSL and the sound glitches go away, so it's basically 100% playable with the 2500K except for the currently incomplete emulation.

I also just discovered I can now fully run some of the "problematic" PS2 games (Soul Calibur 2, Tekken 5) with the newest version of pcsx2 (I couldn't get SC2 above 40fps in-game no matter how hard I tried with older versions.)  Slightly different case, I know, but the point here is that there's something to be said for improved emulation.