first cabinet - question about weight

[consolas]

Hey everyone

I'm almost all set with the stuff I need for my arcade and I was wondering how much do they usually weight?

Stripping off the TV, which is clearly the heavier item, and the PC, how much are we talking here - 15kgs?

I'm making a 1,85 m one.

I will probably get some wheels on the thing in order to move it around.

Ricardo



Thanks a lot

[DaOld Man]

If it is a standard size cab (approx 6 feet in height), and made of 3/4" MDF, it will be HEAVY!!

[paigeoliver]

Most classic 19" cabinets that were made out of particle board weighed in at around 310 lbs. Ones made out of plywood of course weigh less.

Resist the urge to try and make it break apart into sections to make it "easier" to move. Just make sure the cabinet has good places to grip onto (most Atari ones did not).

I have been lugging these things up and down steps for almost 12 years now (hundreds of them), and taking them apart honestly just makes things a lot harder.

[mamenewb100]

Probably around 350 pounds with a 27" CRT television for a standard size 6' cabinet.

[consolas]

Oh boy... I appreciate all your comments, didn't think it would be that heavy.

I can take out the tv and something else.

I confess I was thinking about making it into movable parts but will avoid that, now - thanks paigeoliver.

So this is a build in one place and either leave it there or move it once to the final destination

Thanks everyone, I will follow up with what I have now gathered up.

By the way: regarding the tv (this is for MAME and later on for xbox as well) - will a 32'' tv ruined completely the MAME games? Bear in mind that I'm thinking of getting that little magic hardware that emulates scanlines and everything

Thanks a bunch

[paigeoliver]

Outside of real arcade monitors I would suggest the following.

Try real hard to find a 27" vga CRT monitor. If you can't find that, then the next choice is a 21" CRT monitor (easy to find and cheap, but too small for a big cabinet).

If none of that pans out, then you can always go to a modern lcd or plasma. The older games don't look so hot on them and vertical games look just terrible on them (widescreen makes them use up only like 1/3rd of the screen).

[consolas]

Outside of real arcade monitors I would suggest the following.

Try real hard to find a 27" vga CRT monitor. If you can't find that, then the next choice is a 21" CRT monitor (easy to find and cheap, but too small for a big cabinet).

If none of that pans out, then you can always go to a modern lcd or plasma. The older games don't look so hot on them and vertical games look just terrible on them (widescreen makes them use up only like 1/3rd of the screen).

Thanks for the tips!!

Thing is, since I'm going to go with the small arcade - like the picture in the post, I think it's called bar top from what I read - I think a 19 LCD will suffice.

Lcds  are pretty much square so there will be no issues with vertical games, right?

[MacGyver]

As someone who made one that comes apart, I can say it will take a lot longer to build, and weigh twice as much. Oh, it will also be much more expensive, and the measurements and cuts will need to be much more accurate.  If I lived in the States, I would have just made a normal one, hell, I would have just purchased an old one.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,121739.0.html

[consolas]

As someone who made one that comes apart, I can say it will take a lot longer to build, and weigh twice as much. Oh, it will also be much more expensive, and the measurements and cuts will need to be much more accurate.  If I lived in the States, I would have just made a normal one, hell, I would have just purchased an old one.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,121739.0.html

Yeah that is out of the question

This will be a solid bar top arcade machine

I've already updated my post in the project section, thanks a bunch!

[Crazy Cooter]

Lcds  are pretty much square so there will be no issues with vertical games, right?

Not the new ones.  Almost everything is widescreen.

[Xiaou2]

As someone who made one that comes apart, I can say it will take a lot longer to build, and weigh twice as much. Oh, it will also be much more expensive, and the measurements and cuts will need to be much more accurate.  If I lived in the States, I would have just made a normal one, hell, I would have just purchased an old one.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,121739.0.html

 Sorry, but the reason yours was so much heavier... was because you chose to put a whole Framework inside of it.   There really was no need for that.  The cabinet parts on their own, are strong enough.  (see kitchen / bathroom cabinets... they dont have I-beam style framework inside of them either)

 Furthermore, I dont see how making a cab break into a few parts be a disadvantage.

 It could be as simple as an internal 'lip', with some panel clamp locks inside.

 The most heavy part of course, is usually the monitor.   Making a monitor slide-out rail system would make any cabinet much easier to move.

 Also, Certain Arcade cabinets were designed to be taken apart.  Sit-Downs typically have seat sections that
detach.  Some even had upper canopy's that were detachable.

 Just remember, that if your cabinet weighs too little.. it will probably rock around way too much when people play it.   Plywood however, is a preferable material.  Its lightweight, thin, easy to work with.   MDF is a pain.. and you would need good dust respirators.. and it will leave dust EVERYWHERE. Its breaks apart at a smallest edge impact.. and it break apart.  MDF is thick, and severely heavy.

[CheffoJeffo]

MDF is thick, and severely heavy.

You're right ... it is WAY thicker than plywood or particle board.

 

[paigeoliver]

A multi-part cabinet either weighs more, is less stable, or more likely both. Classic cockpit cabinets didn't come apart, they just looked like they did (believe me I know, I have had to deal with total disassembly and reassembly of both Star Wars and Pole Position cockpits). Big deluxe games with a seat out in front do indeed usually come apart in some way, they have to, otherwise you couldn't get them through a doorway.

If you want your cabinet to be easier to move then buy a dolly. The $20 one I bought at Harbor Freight 10 years ago has moved hundreds of games.

[Xiaou2]

You're right ... it is WAY thicker than plywood or particle board.

 A Galaga cab is made from like 1/2" plywood.. and is light as heck.  Most cabs made of MDF (and particle board) are 3/4"... as its not easy to find thinner MDF at the local Home Depot... AND, personally, Id never build a cab with 1/2 or smaller MDF.  Its just too weak, and could easily be smashed apart without specialized internal framing.  (especially weak to hold up an arcade CRT)   And if your going for internal framing... heck why not use thin wallboard?   Of course, then you run into the fact that the cab takes 3x longer to build.. is harder to deal with certain aspects,

A multi-part cabinet either weighs more, is less stable, or more likely both.

I could EASILY make a multipart cabinet that comes apart with maybe 2lb at most difference in weight.

 I could also make it just as stable as any typical cabinet.   I dont know if you realize the Power of properly installed panel clamps.. coupled with a decent joint system.

 Its easy to say when you have to move a cab a few feet thru level ground.  Heck.. they even could go down a staircase with a single person.. thought I highly advise against it.  But try pushing your 300+ lb cab up a staircase by yourself.   Then you realize that you have to call upon your best buddies, at their convenience, whenever you have to move the thing.

 As for "Classic" cabs, yes.. they were not easy to take apart.. because they were meant to stay in put for years at a time.  They also needed to keep the costs down.. and simple bolts, are far more cheap than a locking clamp set. The purpose of a modern Personal home built cabinet, is far different than the arcades.

 However, even some arcade cabs had some Operator friendly features.  Ive seen some Sega Cabs, which had sliding PCB trays, for easier frontal access.

 If you like to make things hard on yourself.. thats great.. but personally, Id Opt for ease of transport.  While I can get friends to help.. I also dont like Imposing the task upon them.  Similarly, Im not exactly excited to help move one of their machines up and down a flight of stairs.  Getting a bit older isnt helping either.

[CheffoJeffo]

You're right ... it is WAY thicker than plywood or particle board.

 A Galaga cab is made from like 1/2" plywood.. and is light as heck.

No, it isn't 1/2" ... it is 3/4".

Galaxian (like PacMan) was made of plywood. Galaga (like Ms PacMan) was made of particle board. I have one of each downstairs. PacMan is much lighter than Galaga, even though the panels are the exact same width.

Even Nintendo, who did make thin cabs out of plywood went 9/16".

And you wonder why nobody takes your "I was an important and responsible manager at a really busy arcade, so I know better" nonsense seriously. 

[paigeoliver]

Xiaou2.

I have owned over 250 games (and my close friends have owned another 50 that I have helped move), and not a single one of them ever lived on ground level.

3/4" plywood cabinets are noticeably lighter than particle board cabinets, but not so much that they can be handled on steps solo unless they are completely stripped down to the bare wood, and even then it is tough.

If I, who buy, sell and otherwise move games up and down steps all the time and rarely go more than a few days without doing so (currently own 25 cabinets), don't think it is worthwhile to worry about making a cabinet "easy to move", then why would it be important for the average mame cab builder who will likely only move his cabinet a few times in its entire life. You don't try to get a fridge that breaks up into multiple parts.

[Xiaou2]

PacMan is much lighter than Galaga,

 At the Arcade I managed, there were a Galaga and a MS Pacman side by side.  My memory isnt that good, so either the Ms Pacman was plywood.. or the Galaga was was a conversion, or there were different cabinet versions.  Namco owned arcades put a Ms Pacman and Galaga in pretty much every store they owned (even though they didnt earn squat).  My point being, that there was in fact thin plywood cabinets made... and that they are far superior, and Much lighter,  to those made of particle board or MDF.   Ive used MDF, because of the high praise.. and lower costs.  However, Id never recommend it to anyone.  Its worth the extra money for good plywood.

 The Particle board cabs tended to have a huge chunk of bottom corner chipped off of them...  and the T-Molding was almost always hanging loose.   Fortunately, there was no MDF cabinets that Id ever dealt with.  They wouldnt have lasted 2 weeks without getting trashed beyond belief.

I have owned over 250 games

 Are we bragging?   

 Well, I currently own 7 machines, 3 of which are pins.  Ive also owned a full size TX-1.  That was a BEAST to move with 3 people! ...and fortunately, it never had to traverse any stairs (no way in hell it could fit in the house).  Ive owned a few others, and Ive helped move others games than I care to remember.  Also, as a former manager of a Namco's Time-Out, in two different locations, ..Ive moved games for years, quite often... Luckily not up and down stairs, Always using the freight elevator, or and or a dolly.  Namco always wanted the arcades layout to be changed up every few weeks/months.

 Over the years... these things take a toll on you.  Especially in older houses, where doorways are very tight.. stairs are narrow, ...and getting a strong friend to help isnt always easy.   And if you do not do it often, you can really feel the difference in being able to guide them easily / safely.   My best buddy is a Fed-Ex delivery man... but hes thin and not nearly as strong as me.. mostly due to my marital arts background.   But even I have lost strength over the years.

 Anything that I can do to lighten the load, on both of us.. is a godsend.

 Heck, I recently got 2 cabinets from a guy for dirt cheap.. due to the very fact that he had a back injury, and couldnt deal with moving them anymore.  Being that he was in rough shape.. and I wasnt in top shape... it was a nightmare getting up his staircase.

 We dont always plan or want to move.  But it happens. My friend has moved about 4 times since Ive known him.  >.<

 But what I find most interesting.. is resistance to making life easier.   I wonder... when cabinets are made of some new-fangled material that weights 1/8th of current materials... will you still stick to making & dragging MDF mame cabinets around, because it makes you feel more manly?!  heh

 To each his own, but to me, its about making life easier... rather than harder.

[CheffoJeffo]

At the Arcade I managed, there were a Galaga and a MS Pacman side by side.  My memory isnt that good, so either the Ms Pacman was plywood.. or the Galaga was was a conversion, or there were different cabinet versions.  Namco owned arcades put a Ms Pacman and Galaga in pretty much every store they owned (even though they didnt earn squat).  My point being, that there was in fact thin plywood cabinets made... and that they are far superior, and Much lighter,  to those made of particle board or MDF.   Ive used MDF, because of the high praise.. and lower costs.  However, Id never recommend it to anyone.  Its worth the extra money for good plywood.

So, the Galaga was THINNER than the MsPac ? 

The only thin cabinets that I can think of were made by Nintendo. And, yeah, they were good cabs.

For what it is worth, I would never build a cab out of MDF either -- I *LIKE* plywood and have good tools to work with it. 

[paigeoliver]

US manufacturer cabinets be they particle board or plywood were all 3/4". Ms. Pac was usually plywood (until they started using stickers instead of paint), Galaga was usually particle board. So yes, Ms. Pac probably weighed less.

Nintendo, Nichibutsu and some of the other imported cabinets were of a thinner plywood. However later on Nintendo started shipping particle board cabinets.

[consolas]

I assumed MDF was the most common wood to be used.

In order to get less weight and good strength, plywood is the best choice?

[paigeoliver]

MDF is most common amongst mame cabinet builders, however real cabinet manufacturers general used particle board or plywood.

For strength, weight and durability plywood is best, however it is harder to deal with than MDF is.

I assumed MDF was the most common wood to be used.

In order to get less weight and good strength, plywood is the best choice?

[CheffoJeffo]

US manufacturer cabinets be they particle board or plywood were all 3/4". Ms. Pac was usually plywood (until they started using stickers instead of paint), Galaga was usually particle board. So yes, Ms. Pac probably weighed less.

I stand corrected on MsPac. 

[Xiaou2]

Well, maybe my Memory isnt quite as bad as I had thought...
(it still sucks though)


http://forums.arcade-museum.com/archive/index.php/t-67224.html

Mix bag....I understand very early Galagas were plywood, later ones being MDF. Plus there were the factory converted Bosconians.

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/83131-13-galaga-pacman-bosconian-question

Due to poor Bosconian sales, arly Galaga's were Bosconians with new
artwork in top of the old artwork, very rare...

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Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)
 

They did make solid plywood galaga cabs also. Not many but they did it,
I have one the serial number is under 200.

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I've got one of the very early plywood Galaga cabs too, they have the
large DC power supply in the bottom and a thinner gauge metal on the
control panel. Mine has a factory tag on the wiring harness with a
hand written note that says something like "master harness #2".

Initially I thought it might be a bootleg but after a little digging I
ran across a reference that described it to a "T" and also mentioned
only six were known in existance. It's a keeper and doubtful anyway
that it's differences would amount to much, but still neat to have.

Now, if I could only get my hands on one of those "War Games" Galaga
promo headers, that would be sweet.

Mike Doyle

[CheffoJeffo]

OK, but was it 1/2" ? 

[DeLuSioNal29]

Keep in mind... the only part that you would want to come apart on the cabinet is the control panel itself.  (If it's wider than the machine).  How would you get it through a doorway if it doesn't.   

D

[Xiaou2]

Who knows.  I thought I remember it being thinner than standard 25" cabs.  I could be thinking about my Sega Turbo, which is pretty thin.  I was like 24yrs old... and now Im 39.  Thats a long way back to remember.

 Just measured the Turbo.  9/16ths.. which is a mere two 16ths over 1/2".  Sorry, but my Terminator Scanning eye is off calibration a bit   heh

 Anyways... here's a rough mock up of how a cabinet could be made to break down fairly easily.

 Its not to scale... nor complete.   Just a concept.

 The simplest method, is using simple small strips of angle iron on the corners of the bottom half.  Though, that is also the heavier solution.  Figure (C)

 A simple 1 x .5  strip set could be used  Figure (A)
 
 Or a 1 x 1 block set with a wood or metal dowel set, as in Figure B1 & B2.  Fairly Precise drilling would be needed... though, you could at very least, drill first, then cut the block into two parts, for each top and bottom cab sections.  Make sure to mark each piece however.

 The Corner mounts keep the cab in place, where as the Arcade control panel Spring-Clamps, can be used to pressure them tightly together.  It probably would only need two of them... however, adding either 2 per side... or a total of 3... (left, right and front)  should be more than adequate to keep it rock solid.

Control panel not really considered much here.  It could use similar methods, a slide lock+clamp, or simply bolt in place.  Not all CPs even have to come off.


* Remember that you only need something like a 3" strip per corner.  Not an entire internal framework.

* Also, make the entire Cabinet first... then cut the Cab in half.  That will keep dimensions precise... rather than trying to build two accurate parts that fit perfectly together.   Use a Fine tooth blade on a circular saw if possible... and or route away & sand any rough edges as needed.  Take into consideration a few MM of lost height from the cuts.

* The door(s) could be a single traditional  lock & pop-out.  Or could be 2 dual hinged doors.  Or could be a single 'removable-pins', hinged door.   Solid doors can add a lot of mass... so removable... or at least thinner wood, is a big plus.

 Edit:  On second thought... Pop-Hinges would probably be a bad idea.  As they are external, and you still may wish to slide the cab on its backside when going up/down stairs.

[paigeoliver]

Turbo was an imported cabinet, not made in the USA, thus thinner.