glass smooth paint finish on wood

[SavannahLion]

I have never succeeded in getting an ultra-glass smooth paint finish on wood, composite or anywhere in between.

I can do it on plastics with scale models, but wood... I've always accepted it as a property of the wood.

So I was just about to buy some hard board for the project when I spotted white hard board just a few slots away and for about $4 more. It appeared to be enamel and it was exactly the kind of finish I wanted. Glass smooth. I didn't buy it the store because I'm probably going to chip and scratch the finish as I drill my holes.

So ---fudgesicle--- that noise, I want a glass smooth finish on my panels too! 

WTF am I missing? How do you guys get that ultra smoother than a new-born baby's butt glass quality on wood based products?

The last time I attempted it, I was still in school. I sanded the crap out of the wood with increasingly fine grades of sandpaper until the dust practically floated on top. But as soon as I threw on the primer (I can't recall whether it was oil or water based, could that be my mistake?) the wood grain came out and I had texture.

I wasn't able to get the texture out because the lower grits just scratched the hell out of the paint and the higher grits just clogged. I ended up redoing that particular project and just using a stain. That's how frustrated I was.

[HaRuMaN]

MDF, paint, sand, paint, sand, paint, sand, paint, sand, paint, sand, paint, sand, clearcoat, sand, clearcoat, sand, clearcoat, sand...

[Le Chuck]

Ond has a great how-to for painting.  He gets teh amaze-balls results.  Other than that, if you want to beat grain you can always float the top with bondo. Then it will be just like painting one of your models. 

[SavannahLion]

MDF, paint, sand, paint, sand, paint, sand, paint, sand, paint, sand, paint, sand, clearcoat, sand, clearcoat, sand, clearcoat, sand...

It's a playfield so......

[lilshawn]

(I can't recall whether it was oil or water based, could that be my mistake?) the wood grain came out and I had texture.

this.

prime/sand/prime

is it smooth or are you still seeing grain? if so sand/prime

smooth yet? no grain? no? good! paint. yes? sand/prime.

still smooth? no? sand/paint

smooth? no? sand/paint

etc...

basically you have to apply a layer and ensure it's smooth before you get the next one on there.

any small defect is going to propagate itself to the top of the paint.

once you get your final clear coat on there you buff that shid till it looks like fresh peaches. treat it like a car.

clay bar is your best friend. smooth that out and it will look like the clear over the paint is 12" thick.

[Ond]

It’s possible,  I've provided the 'how' a number of times.  Truth is it doesn't matter what you want to get that glass finish on so long as you have a surface preparation strategy that works.  There's a part on my cab that started out as particle board or chip board as it’s called.  It was ridiculous to start with, all porous and rough as hell.  It needed to look the same as the rest of the rest of the cab i.e. piano finish, so strategy applied and, voila! (you'd never know it was chip board).  I used the particle board because that’s what I had at hand. 

So,go for the finishers’ holy grail!  I'll help you, but then I've heard you don't read my posts? 

Seriously, happy to help.

[jennifer]

   A high build primer, If its wash boarded, If not A epoxy based primer will sand, Re coat...This will eliminate bullseye where you sanded through,
Then you can paint the wood grain...If your not doing the wood grain too, just the art it"s the paint,sand,paint method, An airbrush is an awesome
gun for the small... On the last coat of clear, (after sanding with say 1000 grit) Add a splash of acetone to the clear, this will make it "wetter"
and thin it good...If all goes good and you get no dirt in it, Buffing wont be necessary... Use quality materials, and there is no substitute for
hard work.

[SavannahLion]

OND, I don't read your posts because A) I'm not at all convinced you're actually OND but my father's doppleganger and I don't want my own father to give me the old "I told you so" lecture because I didn't listen to anything he said as a teen and I missed out on a walking library of craftsman knowledge.before his death. And B) everytime I look at anything you do, I get so depressed that I crawl into the corner closet, suck my thumb, curl up into a fetal ball, cry myself to sleep for about four days, ashamed at my inept half-assed project. Then I toss the project components onto the trash pile, try to drown myself in the tortoise cage and spend my nights browsing porn sites and playing those stupid pet websites. About a week before the yearly trash people come by I drag the reeking, rat infestation, piles of ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- back into the garage, strip the ruined parts off and try to move forward in between my intense shower sessions and my therapy sessions with the dog. Around this time, I've slept so little that reality and dream become a blurred mess and events become indistinguishable from one or the other. Once my turtle convinces me you don't exist and that you're not my father reincarnate is when I finally open up my Sketchup and AVR ASM files, review what I've failed at and try to improve the failed designs.

It's usually another six months before I can buy new parts and shape the wood unless you make a new appearance and start the cycle all over again.

Ahem..... Enough madness and shame, the common thread I see are the layers and layers, something that doesn't happen with scale modeling. Too much paint and you lose the detail. I'll find OND's paint thread and I'll be back in about a nine months.

[jennifer]

   Giggle...Jennifer claps her hands with glee!!

[Ond]

Oh my GAWWWWD   

How the heck do I respond after all that?    Well (heh heh) since you don't (usually) read my stuff I have another cunning plan, these lengthy descriptions are all well and good but can make it seem like too much hard work to get the desired finish.

I should point out that IMO piano gloss finishes and arcade machines don't really go together unless they are some odd unconventional 'art piece' like my effort.  Really slick satin finishes with vinyl print artwork seem much more authentic to me. 

That aside, I understand how satisfying it can be to master the whole mega gloss look on our chosen cab materials SO, there may be some usefulness in me doing a "how to video" on what works for me.  Nothing beats seeing the process and hearing it described I guess.  Believe it or not I enjoy the finishing process all the way to a high gloss polish.  Jennifer is right on the money with her summary of the process, probably what’s needed though is some detail around techniques.

I have this part of my cab which is still raw plywood; it's around the neck of my cab.  I'll take it from wood to Ferrari Red mirror finish; it's about time for an update anyhow.  So, forgot all the yardiblarhhgg about the OND and check for the video,  coming to a massively over bloated thread in the near future! 

[SavannahLion]

The surface I want the gloss smooth finish is for a vertical playfield. Not an arcade cab in the traditional sense.

[ChadTower]

Trying to drown oneself in a tortoise cage is pretty incompetent.  Well played!

[jennifer]

    After giving this some thought...It occurred to me that the OND is right. The problem though, Is teaching someone on say the Utube
(although a grand gesture) and will only cover the basics, Does not make up for the hundreds if not thousands of hours of hands on experience.
    Painting a fake wood  grain (for example) looks easy when you watch skilled hands doing it...The advances in modern tech have simplified things however.
Clear over vinyl graphics has been my resent venture, this seems to work well with a moderate learning curve. And spraying the clear, Well,
not so bad...I am NOT trying to discourage you or anyone from learning, but it is hard work...I do look forward to your thread video. OND
I do believe you of all people could pull it off.

[Ond]

The surface I want the gloss smooth finish is for a vertical playfield. Not an arcade cab in the traditional sense.

Ah OK, well if its what you're after there's no reason you can't achieve that finish.

    ...I do look forward to your thread video. OND
I do believe you of all people could pull it off.

Thanks jennifer,  I've given the first of 3 tutorials a go in my project thread.  It will take 3 sessions to cover the whole process and allow for coats to dry in between. 

[Ond]

I've been thinking about this a bit

OND, I don't read your posts because ......

whilst I had a laugh at the wit in your response I was missing the fact that there's some truth in there too.  I have to acknowledge that sometimes looking at the work other people post on these boards can have a depressing effect, it happens to me too (yes really).  It's natural to compare skills,  effort and results and the streaks of brilliance that pop up now and then in project posts can have a de-motivating effect.  The fact that my work causes a bit of a down in some folk bothers me.  I do understand.  Anyway, I've commited to doing the videos and will finish them as time permits.

Ond

[shmokes]

There's always laminate. 

[Ond]

There's always laminate. 

True,  laminate is great stuff, use it where ever it suits the purpose.  It comes with it's own set of challenges but all in all, less work to get a high gloss finish on a flat surface.

[Xiaou2]

I had the same problems with painting.  Never realized the process to it.

 I used MDF, and figured since it was already smooth... there would be no problems.  Wrong  >.<

 Even the best brushes and or rollers, just do not lay paint down even and consistent enough.   And since the paint is fairly thick...  the surface never falls flat on its own.  Only exception might be if you thinned the paint down to water-color consistency... but that would take like 20 coats of work and dry-times.


 A good spray gun however,  is amazing.   My buddy does furniture painting and clearing at the place he works at... And he showed me one of his spray-gun painted arcade cabinets.  It was jaw droppingly perfect.   Even the new cabinets Ive seen didnt hold a candle to this work.   He used flat black, or semi-gloss at the most.

 Spray-Paint cans dont quite cut it... mostly because the paint goes on too thin, and too narrow..  and it runs out so quickly... that you end up trying to zoom in closer to avoid waste... which causes build-up and sometimes... paint-runs.

 Ive yet to buy a paint-gun setup... cause Im totally confused about what air compressor requirements are needed. Get the wrong compressor.. and the gun wont function the want you need it to.   Good compressors also cost boatloads of cash... and while Im ok with some things from Harbor Freight... I dont think Id risk my life with one of their Compressor tanks.

 The Key seems to be using a powerful sprayer, which you use to apply a very light 'Mist' of paint, from a distance, in complete single direction passes, that over-shoot the edges, of whats being painted.

 Even then, guys who do things like Pinball Playfields... often still sand, paint, sand, paint...etc. 

[Ond]

I use both spray cans and spray gun and compressor, a lot of cheap spray can brands can be a bit unpredictable, no so with the much higher (and more expensive) quality auto touch up paints, these work really well. I'll post the final result of my tutorial video's i.e. some pics in here, part 2 of my tutorials will be up in my project thread just as soon as Youtube is finished messing with it. 

[jennifer]

    X2... A cheap compressor is quite noisy, I havent seen the H/f ones, cant imagine it would be dangerous though, they
have a pressure valve that pops. A 20 gal tank 5 horse works good on big items, (cabs) Also that is the cutoff between
120v and 240v... what Jen is saying a cheap compressor should be just fine, there only draw back is there pretty loud.

[lilshawn]

i think what he's saying is the stuff is super cheap and likely the tank is some kind of popcan material. get that thing up to pressure and you'd basically have a bomb. some things you can't cheap out on. a good compressor is one of them.

most spray guns have requirements for air (a certain psi and a certain cubic feet per minute.) you must be sure to purchase a compressor with a built in regulator (or purchase one separately) and also be sure to buy one capable of supplying said pressure/CFM.

I tried painting with one of those little pancake compressors. It was capable at running the gun, but it ran out of air quickly, causing the flow to be uneven after a few seconds of spraying. once the pressure was back up again it was good again.  something with a larger reserve tank would have been better.

[TopJimmyCooks]

A cheap compressor can supply high psi for a short time.  However, even if it has a large tank or a reserve/remote tank, duty cycle comes in to play.  cheaper compressors and motors are not rated to run continuously, they would burn up.  the cost cutting is in the materials, gauge of wire, cooling fins, heat dissipation, etc.  These corners are cut and if you can even find the specs, you'll see something like 5 or 10% duty cycle listed.  that means the motor is rated/designed to be off 90% of the time and running 10%.  if you run it 100% for long enough it will break.  Cheap compressors are great for nailers, staplers, air ratchets, tools that have intermittent duty.  You need the real thing for spraying, sanders, DA's, and grinder/zizz wheels. 

I only have a consumer grade compressor, so no pneumatic powered spraying for me. 

[ChadTower]

and while Im ok with some things from Harbor Freight... I dont think Id risk my life with one of their Compressor tanks.

I did.  The first tank had multiple holes along the joint where they welded the motor bracket to the tank.  It sounded like 3 whistles every time there was air in it.  The second tank was worse.  I did not get a third tank.

[jennifer]

    Like I say, Ive never looked at the H/f tanks...Yikes... Maybe stay away from those, Ive had good, big,small, expensive,and cheap ones... I feel that replacing it every few years of hard use is best, Instead of waiting for the death knock.
That said, cheap is what I do, Wal mart is where the last one came from (The biggest tank they had). Ive got no regets, and get
a nice life cycle from them. (Upgrade the hose to rubber)... Craftsman makes nice ones too, These get big however,
You only need a 20gal tank...Unless you plan to paint cars too.

[Ond]

I finshed off my 'how to' videos on this subject (located in my project thread)  here's the result.



 

[SavannahLion]

I haven't crawled into the corner or anything, not yet anyways. I started working on the score display.

I need to light... (can't find my exact notes) 59 LED's (round up to 64 to make a nice even number) and I wanted to do it with a specifc µC and retain full SPI. Go up a notch and it's too expensive, go down a notch and the layout work triples. Bleh.... Maybe if I try it with i2c, I dunno.

Moving along.

...............