[Nanao MS9-29] Picture moves and expands etc

[Sledge]

Hi guys,
I've just completed (almost) my mamecab in a Namco Excelleena II, i've got calamity's drivers installed on a HD4850, and using groovymame, with GameEx as the FE.
My question is.. when switching games, one game is fine, then the next might be off to the right, or to the left, or it might be too big vertically for the screen, which means in order for it to look right, i need to access the v-pos, h-pos, etc dials in the cab..
Have i done something wrong? how do i set it to always be in the middle and correct size for the screen etc?
I realize it must be something to do with the resolutions being used.. but.. how do i fix it?

Thanks in advance

[Calamity]

Hi Sledge,

You need to find some custom settings that accomodate your monitor to a point where you only need to occasionally use the v-size pot. Some monitors are more picky than others, however. First you need to identify your monitor, is it multisync? Do you have its specs? Then probably use one of the ready made monitor presets to create a mode table (VMMaker) and set up mame.ini. These presets basically consist on a bunch of monitor_specs lines. Finally you will refine these monitor_specs until they perfectly fit your monitor or you're satisfied. There are plenty of threads explaining the process for particular cases.

[Sledge]

Hi Calamity,
I've got a Nanao MS9 monitor, and i've used these settings in VMMaker from the monitor presets thread:
NANAO MS9-29 (retrorepair)
monitor_specs0    15450.00-16050.00, 55-65, 3.91, 4.70, 6.85, 0.190, 0.191, 1.018, 0, 0, 288, 448
monitor_specs1    23900.00-24900.00, 55-65, 2.91, 3.00, 4.44, 0.451, 0.164, 1.048, 0, 0, 480, 768
I'm fairly sure i've done all that correctly..

but i haven't set anything in mame.ini
I'll try to find the relevant info thanks...

In VMMaker what do i set DotClockMin = 0 to for a gigabyte HD4850?

Also in VMMaker it's:
   monitor_specs_0 = "15450.00-16050.00, 55-65, 3.91, 4.70, 6.85, 0.190, 0.191, 1.018, 0, 0, 288, 448"
and in Mame.ini its:
   monitor_specs0       15450.00-16050.00, 55-65, 3.91, 4.70, 6.85, 0.190, 0.191, 1.018, 0, 0, 288, 448

Is that correct? or should it be the same way in both?

[Calamity]

Hi Sledge,

Ok, then you just need to set up mame.ini.

Leave the DotClockMin = 0 for your card.

Yes the format for the monitor_specs lines used to be slightly different in VMMaker, however the last version supports the exact same format as GroovyMAME (only difference is that you need to specify MonitorType="CUSTOM" in vmmaker.ini):

http://mame.3feetunder.com/windows-ati-crt-emudriver/

[Sledge]

Awesome, thanks Calamity.

One more question not related to this..
Does, or can, groovymame support servostik?
http://www.ultimarc.com/servostik.html

[Sledge]

So after making the changes suggested, it doesn't seem as bad.. but i've adjusted the screen width using bubble bobble, and the height using pacman..
however SF2 looks like this: http://www.overclockers.com.au/pix/index.php?page=image&id=z4vny
does that look normal for this sort of setup? should it have the black bars top and bottom so big?
Cheers

EDIT: Also wondering if using an ArcadeVGA will fix these issues... or will i still have to do all this as well?

[krick]

If you adjust your monitor so that vertical games will fit, then horizontal games will have black bars to varying degrees, depending on the game's specific resolution.  It works the same exact way on an ArcadeVGA card as well.

The other option is to run all your vertical games at a higher resolution like 640x480 and have MAME scale the image to fit the screen while keeping the aspect ratio.  This has the effect of making vertical games blurrier and possibly interlaced, depending on your monitor and the resolution you decide to run them at.

Create a blank file called "vertical.ini" in your mame root folder and put a resolution setting in it.  Something like...

resolution 640x480

...or 800x600 or whatever the maximum is for your monitor.  You may also need to add...

hwstretch 1
keepaspect 1

...but I'm not sure.  Just experiment.


I've heard of people wiring up a remote vertical size pot inside the coin door so that they can easily adjust the height for each game.
If you have some experience with electronics, you could probably wire up a toggle switch and some resistors to flip between two different monitor settings for the vertical size, one for vertical games, the other for horizontal games.


The bottom line is that there there's no magic bullet for this one.  Since I'm lazy, I chose to live with the letterboxing on horizontal games.  I barely notice it when I'm playing.

[Sledge]

The other option is to run all your vertical games at a higher resolution like 640x480 and have MAME scale the image to fit the screen while keeping the aspect ratio.

I was wondering about this, but wasn't sure of the options or how..
was thinking of having all games run at 640x480 (or whatever suits this approach best, maybe a lower res?), but keep their correct aspect ratio with borders somehow..

I've heard of people wiring up a remote vertical size pot inside the coin door so that they can easily adjust the height for each game.

I also thought about this too.. but again not sure how lol..
Might look into the software option first..

[Sledge]

The other option is to run all your vertical games at a higher resolution like 640x480 and have MAME scale the image to fit the screen while keeping the aspect ratio.  This has the effect of making vertical games blurrier and possibly interlaced, depending on your monitor and the resolution you decide to run them at.

Create a blank file called "vertical.ini" in your mame root folder and put a resolution setting in it.  Something like...

resolution 640x480

...or 800x600 or whatever the maximum is for your monitor.  You may also need to add...

hwstretch 1
keepaspect 1

this does seem to work quite well.. but some games like pac man/galaga look like crap..
is there a list of what resolutions various games run at? i'm thinking of finding the highest 'low' resolution that the games run at and see how it goes..
or is someone able to recommend a good resolution that would suit MOST games?
thanks for your help
edit:
what i've done for the time being is started using MameUIFX instead until i can work it out using groovymame...
obviously not using the exact correct resolution for the games, but it looks great atm
got all vertical games running at 512x384

[krick]

this does seem to work quite well.. but some games like pac man/galaga look like crap..
is there a list of what resolutions various games run at? i'm thinking of finding the highest 'low' resolution that the games run at and see how it goes..

edit:
what i've done for the time being is started using MameUIFX instead until i can work it out using groovymame...
obviously not using the exact correct resolution for the games, but it looks great atm
got all vertical games running at 512x384

When you say they "look like crap", are you referring to interlaced flicker or is there something wrong about how the actual pixels look?

Normally, when running a vertical game at a non-native resolution, you want to use the highest resolution possible so that when it stretches, it looks as good as possible.

I assume that 512x384 is not interlaced on your setup.  When using MAMEUI and that resolution, does Galaga fill the whole screen (top to bottom) or is there a border?

Have you tried setting that same resolution in the vertical.ini and using GroovyMAME?


I also just noticed your monitor specs.  Does your monitor auto-switch between 15KHz and 25KHz?  If no, then I think you might need to change your monitor specs.  The specs0 are for 15KHz, and the specs1 are for 25KHz.

[Calamity]

Hi Sledge,

If you want GroovyMAME to force vertical games to be done on the upper 25 KHz range you need to explicitly define the right ranges:

monitor_specs0    15450.00-16050.00, 55-65, 3.91, 4.70, 6.85, 0.190, 0.191, 1.018, 0, 0, 248, 448
monitor_specs1    23900.00-24900.00, 55-65, 2.91, 3.00, 4.44, 0.451, 0.164, 1.048, 0, 0, 480, 768

This should make anything above 248 go to the upper range. However I can't guarantee it will work 100% ok. Please be patient because all this is going to be re-designed for the next release.

[Sledge]

When you say they "look like crap", are you referring to interlaced flicker or is there something wrong about how the actual pixels look?

Normally, when running a vertical game at a non-native resolution, you want to use the highest resolution possible so that when it stretches, it looks as good as possible.

I assume that 512x384 is not interlaced on your setup.  When using MAMEUI and that resolution, does Galaga fill the whole screen (top to bottom) or is there a border?
Have you tried setting that same resolution in the vertical.ini and using GroovyMAME?
I also just noticed your monitor specs.  Does your monitor auto-switch between 15KHz and 25KHz?  If no, then I think you might need to change your monitor specs.  The specs0 are for 15KHz, and the specs1 are for 25KHz.

By 'crap' i mean the pixels are all blurred together.
I have no idea if that resolution is interlaced or not  but i chose that resolution because the vertical lines matches a fair number of the vertical games i play (19XX) I think it might auto switch between 15/25, but currently i have it limited to 15 only. i didn't use spec1 as i read that only a couple of games actually use it.. is that wrong? Do a fair number of vertical games use 25khz?
I tried a few resolutions with groovymame, and they all pretty much looked the same.. and yes when using MameUIFX galaga goes from top to bottom..

Hi Sledge,

If you want GroovyMAME to force vertical games to be done on the upper 25 KHz range you need to explicitly define the right ranges:

monitor_specs0    15450.00-16050.00, 55-65, 3.91, 4.70, 6.85, 0.190, 0.191, 1.018, 0, 0, 248, 448
monitor_specs1    23900.00-24900.00, 55-65, 2.91, 3.00, 4.44, 0.451, 0.164, 1.048, 0, 0, 480, 768

This should make anything above 248 go to the upper range. However I can't guarantee it will work 100% ok. Please be patient because all this is going to be re-designed for the next release.

As above, i hadn't specified anything for spec1..
i will give it another try with 25khz enabled, and see how it looks, and i will keep an eye on the next release as well.

Thanks for the help.. (i'm very new to using a PC on an arcade monitor)
If i run VMMaker again.. do i need to start fresh and remove the drivers, run CC Cleaner or whatever it is.. etc, and re install drivers again?
Or do i just run VMMaker and let it do it's thing?

[Sledge]

Hi Calamity,
I tried changing that setting and it didn't make any difference, the pixels are still all blurry..
I'll keep an eye out for the next release to see if anything changes for me..
Thanks

[krick]

Assuming your monitor can auto-switch between 15KHz and 25KHz, I would enable both sets of monitor specs in VMMaker.

Also, make sure that you're also putting both sets of specs in your mame.ini file.

And start with a clean mame.ini file generated from groovymame using this command line...

groovymame.exe -cc

GroovyMAME should be able to pick the best resolutions automatically.  If it's not and the results look less than appealing, then you should post some log files here so that Calamity can help you troubleshoot.  Here's how you get a log file...

groovymame.exe romname -v -md 4 > romname.txt

[Calamity]

Hi Calamity,
I tried changing that setting and it didn't make any difference, the pixels are still all blurry..
I'll keep an eye out for the next release to see if anything changes for me..
Thanks

I guess you're still using the ini file to force the resolution. Forcing the resolution doesn't work in GM.

GroovyMAME is designed to interlace anything above the ActiveLinesLimit value:

monitor_specs0    15450.00-16050.00, 55-65, 3.91, 4.70, 6.85, 0.190, 0.191, 1.018, 0, 0, 288, 448

We usually set it to 288 because that's barely the limit that standard arcade monitors can do in progressive mode. This offers the best possible quality, but involves adjusting v-size.

If the user can't access the v-size pot, then there's a 'second class' quality setup that consists on limiting the total number of progressive lines to something that fits, probably 248 or 256:

monitor_specs0    15450.00-16050.00, 55-65, 3.91, 4.70, 6.85, 0.190, 0.191, 1.018, 0, 0, 256, 448

This makes all games above 256 lines pick an interlaced resolution, and stretch them so they fit the new resolution.

But GroovyMAME doesn't limit to just picking a fixed interlaced resolution, it calculates the maximum resolution achievable for a given refresh rate, so it will pick 480i, 496i, 512i, 560i, etc.  depending on the target refresh, which dramatically increases the quality of some 'low' refresh games like Twin Cobra or Donpachi. But unfortunately, using a higher resolution like 576i means that the user may need to adjust the v-size pot again, and there's no workaround for this at the moment (working on it).

So basically the problem is that there's no practical way to force GM to run all vertical games at 640x480, but it's mainly because that's a highy lousy and suboptimal setup and GM was not designed with those restrictions in mind. However the new design I'm working on will hopefully support all imaginable ways to force things.

[Sledge]

hrmm yeah i think i did leave the vertical.ini in place.. i'll check again without it.

[Sledge]

yeah i definitely had tried it without the resolution being specified..
limiting it to 248 or 256 results in the picture being top to bottom, but very blurry pixels etc..
I will wait and see how the next version goes.
Thanks!

[Calamity]

But can you tell us if it's picking an interlaced resolution or not? If you're not sure, attach a log here, that will be enough for me. I'm saying this because if you're already getting a properly interlaced picture, then the next version is not going to be any better on this regard.

[Sledge]

here's galaga.txt:

[Calamity]

You probably edited vmmaker.ini and run vmmaker but didn't update mame.ini accordingly.

Make sure to edit monitor_specs0 in mame.ini like this:

monitor_specs0 15450.00-16050.00, 55-65, 3.91, 4.70, 6.85, 0.190, 0.191, 1.018, 0, 0, 248, 448

[Sledge]

no i changed it in both..
both vmmaker and mame have 248 there..
rebooted PC, then ran test..

[Calamity]

No way. Look at your log:

SwitchRes: Monitor: cga Orientation: horizontal Aspect 4:3
SwitchRes: MonitorLimits 15250.00-15700.00,49.50-65.00,2.000,4.700,8.000,0.064,0.192,1.024,0,0,288.0,448

Make sure the monitor_specs0 label is not duplicated.

[Sledge]

just uploaded ini
i did copy the specs lines, but commented them out i think? is that what the # does? so those lines shouldn't matter right?
I just left them there so i knew what i had changed...

[Calamity]

Remove the second "_" from monitor_specs_0:

It's monitor_specs0

Check the final notes here: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,116023.msg1230485.html#msg1230485

This has been fixed in latest version of VMMaker to avoid confusions, sorry for this, it's not your fault.

[Sledge]

Dang.. i thought i had.. but with how many times i've changed it.. it probably crept back in again..
bbs..

[Sledge]

Ok.. that looks better
Thank you... i told you i must be doing something wrong

[Calamity]

Good!

[Sledge]

1 small issue still though.. down the bottom of the screen, i can see what looks like 1 line from the top of the screen wrapped down to the bottom..
Any idea how to fix this?

[Calamity]

That's quite strange. Try to use Arcade_OSD to teak the values for vertical front/back porch (inside the Vertical Geometry menu) to see if it has any visible effect. If you fix it on Arcade_OSD screen I'll explain how to port the new values into mame.ini.

[Sledge]

hrmm well apart from that issue, i've also found another game that looks like crap (like before)
Tiger Heli
might just run all the vertical games at the same resolution and be done with it
Doesn't really bother me too much if they're not totally 'authentic'.

[krick]

When you find games that don't look right, post a log file...

groovymame.exe romname -v -md 4 > romname.txt

[Sledge]

hey,
so after not having used the cabinet for a while, I've come back and tried to play some games but they all use a totally wrong resolution.
I'm using hyperspin @ 640x480, and going from memory when using VMM I limited the modelines to 60 or 80. but i'm not sure what I've done wrong now...
I tried using the latest groovymame with the same result.. even from commandline
as you can see the resolution is very wide and still at 480 high..
Any chance someone can look at the attachment and tell me what is actually happening?
Is it safe to start over with installing the drivers again? Or what do I do to fix it?
Thanks

[Calamity]

Hi Sledge,

You'd better try the newest version, the one you're using is obsolete.

Create a new mame.ini with the new executable (groovymame -cc). Don't miss this step

Then edit this option: monitor ms929

Let's see how that works and then go on from that point.

[Sledge]

ok tried that with similar result, just a different resolution (dkong1.txt)
then I tried putting in my monitor specs.. not sure if they're needed in new version (dkong2.txt)
have included my mame.ini too

[Calamity]

Hi Sledge,

You didn't update GroovyMAME as adviced. GroovyMAME suffered a major transformation last year (see SwitchRes 014), now things work in a more consistent way. The 'ms929' preset is not available in the build you're using.

On the other hand, you're using 'video ddraw'. You must use 'video d3d' when working with magic resolutions.

[Sledge]

sorry... wrong folder
bbs..

[Sledge]

ok same thing...

[Calamity]

Ok Sledge, that log is perfect now. So what's wrong with the picture you get?

[Sledge]

the picture is ultra wide.. resolution is totally wrong..
Direct3D: Device created at 1234x256
and puckman:

this is viewing through teamviewer so you can see the effect.. on screen I can't see anything due to the picture being way off to the left

[Calamity]

You're using magic resolutions: 1234x256  is the supposed resolution that has to be used. GroovyMAME uses that resolution to create 400x256 dynamically, see:

SwitchRes: Modeline "400x256_60 16.05KHz 57.73Hz" 8.47 400 432 472 528 256 259 262 278   -hsync -vsync
Switchres: saving    DALDTMCRTBCD1234x256x0x60 - Modeline "1232x256_60 23.94KHz 60.00Hz" 39.26 1232 1344 1464 1640 256 319 323 399   -hsync -vsync
Switchres: updating  DALDTMCRTBCD1234x256x0x60 - Modeline "400x256_60 16.05KHz 57.73Hz" 8.47 400 432 472 528 256 259 262 278   -hsync -vsync

So if you don't get a genuine 400x256 resolution after this, then something wrong is going on. Do you happen to be running some of those programs that makes all changes to the system be temporal so that when once you reboot everything is restored (can't remember the name)?

[Calamity]

this is viewing through teamviewer so you can see the effect.. on screen I can't see anything due to the picture being way off to the left

Aha. Try disabling/uninstalling teamviewer, these remote access software usually install a mirror video driver which interacts with the local video driver badly (it's not he first time that similar erros have been reported).

[Sledge]

Do you happen to be running some of those programs that makes all changes to the system be temporal so that when once you reboot everything is restored (can't remember the name)?

no nothing like that running..
just windows XP x64 with your drivers with magic resolutions..

hrmm ok... will make things harder to setup lol.. but will see what happens

[Calamity]

Also, try setting the desktop to a resolution which is not 1234x ... (640x480 for instance).

And... when in the game, when the screen is off, try moving the mouse to see if you can pan on the picture.

[Sledge]

ok yep that's better now
normal desktop resolution is 640x480.. that's the lowest it will go..in windows
when the screen is off.. how will I know if it is moving?

[Calamity]

Sorry, I didn't mean the screen turn off, but when the picture is way off to the left, I wondered if it's possible to get it in the center by moving the mouse.

Anyway, I didn't understand, does it work now when launching donkey kong?

[Sledge]

yes it's working fine now...
uninstalling teamviewer did the trick..
however some other game do not display correctly? all weird and squiggly like a totally wrong resolution..
puckman was fine but puckmanh isn't
actually quite a few games are no longer displaying correctly the same way...
Truxton is doing the same thing..

[Sledge]

this is what truxton looks like..

[Calamity]

Do you get a stable picture if you test 1234x320 on ArcadeOSD?

[Calamity]

Check this thread:

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,87528.msg919065.html#msg919065

Check if your model is the one that autoswitches from 15/24 KHz. If that's the case, you may need to adjust the 24 kHz H-freq potentiometer.

[Sledge]

no my monitor is not the autoswitching type. it has a cable which needs to be manually switched from 15 to 24..
So I assume I need to limit everything to 15khz..
I will try Arcade OSD with that res asap.

Edit: No I do not get a stable picture with 1234x320
no stable picture with any of the 23khz and above modes
now running VMMaker without the monitor spec1 line in it...

ok everything seems ok now.. except that all vertical games seem to run in 640x480
Is that normal?
going back to normal resolutions (not magic) gives me 105 modes, and then the vertical game I tried (tiger heli) ran at 704x480

Will getting an ArcadeVGA help with this? Are there any issues I should know about with the arcadeVGA and groovymame?

[Calamity]

Hi Sledge,

Ok, if your monitor is not the autoswitching type then you need to decide which of either ranges to use, and definitely the 15 kHz one is the one to choose.

All your vertical games run at 640x480 because if you remember from your above posts, you wanted to limit the total height used by MAME, so we set this limitation here:

monitor_specs0    15450.00-16050.00, 55-65, 3.91, 4.70, 6.85, 0.190, 0.191, 1.018, 0, 0, 248, 448

If you want to restore the capability of using higher vertical resolutions, set that value back to normal, like this:

monitor_specs0    15450.00-16050.00, 55-65, 3.91, 4.70, 6.85, 0.190, 0.191, 1.018, 0, 0, 288, 448

Or whatever in the middle, e.g. limit it to 256 lines in case you can't access the v-size pot:

monitor_specs0    15450.00-16050.00, 55-65, 3.91, 4.70, 6.85, 0.190, 0.191, 1.018, 0, 0, 256, 448


Then in mame.ini, set the corresponding custom line by using these two options:

monitor custom
crt_range0              15450-16050, 50-65, 3.910, 4.700, 6.850, 0.190, 0.191, 1.018, 0, 0, 192, 288, 448, 576


So as you see, it's up to you to decide which maximum height will trigger the interlaced+stretched mode.

[Sledge]

Hi Calamity,
Yes I reverted the monitor specs in VMMaker back to this:
monitor_specs0    15450.00-16050.00, 55-65, 3.91, 4.70, 6.85, 0.190, 0.191, 1.018, 0, 0, 288, 448
No change..
I converted that to the above and put it into the mame.ini
crt_range0              15450-16050, 50-65, 3.910, 4.700, 6.850, 0.190, 0.191, 1.018, 0, 0, 192, 288, 448, 576
Still no change...
still 640x480..
I have attached a log file..
I appreciate your trying to help

[Calamity]

You need to run VMMaker with the new settings so you create the required resolutions, now you don't have progressive resolutions above 264, see:

Switchres: [ 35] 1234x 248 @ 59: DALDTMCRTBCD1234x248x0x59 - Modeline "1232x248_59 16.05KHz 59.43Hz" 26.19 1232 1336 1456 1632 248 251 254 270   -hsync -vsync
Switchres: [ 36] 1234x 256 @ 58: DALDTMCRTBCD1234x256x0x58 - Modeline "1232x256_58 16.05KHz 57.72Hz" 26.19 1232 1336 1456 1632 256 259 262 278   -hsync -vsync
Switchres: [ 37] 1234x 264 @ 56: DALDTMCRTBCD1234x264x0x56 - Modeline "1232x264_56 16.05KHz 56.11Hz" 26.19 1232 1336 1456 1632 264 267 270 286   -hsync -vsync
Switchres: [ 38] 1234x 448 @ 60: DALDTMCRTBCD1234x448x0x60 - Modeline "1232x448_60 15.53KHz 60.06Hz" 25.09 1232 1328 1448 1616 448 467 473 517 interlace  -hsync -vsync

Also, you forgot setting 'monitor custom' in mame.ini.

[Sledge]

Sorry.. I don't understand any of this stuff lol..
Changed ms929 to custom(didn't realise I had to do that sorry/missed that bit..),also changed: 15450.00-16050.00, 55-65 to 15450.00-16050.00, 50-65, and ran VMMaker again with magic resolutions set..
rebooted... now tigerheli runs at 432x280p ?? is that right now? seems right to my uneducated mind..

[Calamity]

That's right now

280p equals the height of that game, same for 'contra'. Try dspirit too, it should be 288p. Try 1942, it should be 256p.

etc.

[Sledge]

1 more question.. if the games are too tall..(for the cabinet) the only way to shrink them a little bit (2cm or so) is with the vertical pots on the screen? (or limit the resolutions so they run at 640x480)

Thanks for your help Calamity!

Edit: I've now got my vertical limit set to 256, so everything above is interlaced, and now all on screen..

[Sledge]

And for future reference this is my custom monitor settings for MS9-29 :
crt_range0                15450.00-16050.00, 50-65, 4.389, 4.389, 8.046, 0.190, 0.191, 1.018, 0, 0, 192, 256, 448, 576

a little different to the presets thread..
taken from 512x240 geometry....not sure if this is the correct one to get the settings from...

[Calamity]

Thanks for the reference. I'll edit your first post topic with your monitor type so future readers find the information easier.

[Sledge]

ok... as an experiment I installed Win7, with Soft15 etc
got 15hz modelines installed..
but when I try to run a game with refresh_dont_care 1 I get a blank screen and no sound
refresh_dont_care 0 = the games all run at 640x480

I'm running in d3d to avoid the interlace to non interlace win 7 issue
anyone got an idea as to what I need to do?

EDIT: Actually.. it's weird.. sometimes it works.. most times not
only other difference is now I added an SSD as well... too fast for it?

Direct3D: Error 88760868 during device present call

something to do with that maybe? but why?

[Calamity]

Try running GroovyMAME from an elevated console (run cmd.exe as administrator).

[Sledge]

Try running GroovyMAME from an elevated console (run cmd.exe as administrator).

same thing happens..
1 out of 5 or so tries will start a game
though I did notice a LOT of lag in 1941 when it did run...(720x480@59.63) syncrefresh seemed to fix this i think??
1942 seemed ok (400x256@57.73)


OK.. seems the games are definitely running... just not in focus.. I have to ALT-TAB to them...

[Calamity]

How are you launching the games? Your log show two video displays, which one is your primary device?

[Sledge]

when testing I run them from cmd, but it does the same through hyperspin as well

I only have the HD4850 installed, connected to a Jpac => arcade screen.

[Calamity]

Video: Monitor 0000000000010001 = "\\.\DISPLAY1" (primary)
Video: Monitor 0000000000010003 = "\\.\DISPLAY2"

Do you have two monitors?

[Sledge]

no.. I don't

[Calamity]

That's odd. So you say it's like the application didn't start maximized? Try running it with the -nomt option.

[Sledge]

I ran it once and it worked fine:

Starting AY-3-8910A ':ay1'
Starting AY-3-8910A ':ay2'

did it again and it didn't work.. had to ALT-TAB to the game..
same section as above has this:

Starting AY-3-8910A ':ay1'
Direct3D: Error 88760868 during device present call
Starting AY-3-8910A ':ay2'

for my info.. what is -nomt ?

So you say it's like the application didn't start maximized?

all I get is a blank screen.. but I can ALT-TAB to the game.. sometimes I have to ALT-TAB twice for it to work...

[Sledge]

Try running it with the -nomt option.

yep, this makes it display every time!

can that go in the ini? or do I need to work out how to get hyperspin to parse that?

[Calamity]

That option is to disable multithreading. It seems there's a slight problem with GM's threads syncronization in your system.

[Calamity]

You can put it in the ini, of course. Edit this option:

multithreading 0

[Sledge]

You can put it in the ini, of course. Edit this option:

multithreading 0

yep did that.. but OMG everything is so slow now
1941 = 50.23%
1942 = 82.41%
sf2 =100%

hrmm

[Calamity]

Try one of these things (not both at once):

-syncrefresh_tolerance 10.0

or

-syncrefresh

[Sledge]

Try one of these things (not both at once):

-syncrefresh_tolerance 10.0

already have syncrefesh 1 in ini
using that option in cmd = no change

-syncrefresh_tolerance 10.0
= unknown option

syncrefresh_tolerance 10.0 in ini = no difference

maybe I should just get an AVGA or go back to XP until you release next drivers.. then try again?
 

[Calamity]

Have you tried with -video ddraw? The latest version of GM shouldn't have problems with switching between interlaced/progressive. Possibly with -video ddraw you can keep multihreading enabled so the performance is not degraded.

[Sledge]

Have you tried with -video ddraw? The latest version of GM shouldn't have problems with switching between interlaced/progressive. Possibly with -video ddraw you can keep multihreading enabled so the performance is not degraded.

yes
1941 runs at 80% or so with -nomt (starts every time ok and at 100% without -nomt)
1942 = Unable to initialize DirectDraw

[Sledge]

So I'm now using a different video card, and all my settings are screwed up...
Should custom monitor settings change depending on the video card? I wouldn't have though so...
now using:
Win 7 with latest drivers/VMMaker
HD2600pro

these were the settings that worked for me before:15450.00-16050.00, 50-65, 4.389, 4.389, 8.046, 0.190, 0.191, 1.018, 0, 0, 256, 448

Now reverting back to the settings in the presets thread: 15450.00-16050.00, 55-65, 3.91, 4.70, 6.85, 0.190, 0.191, 1.018, 0, 0, 256, 448

Still not quite right.. but they will do...

Also in the monitor presets thread it says this:

Additionally, and opposite to GroovyMAME, VMMaker needs the MonitorType = "CUSTOM" option in order to process any monitor_specs lines.

So what should MonitorType = in mame.ini ??
I think I have that set to Custom as well.. ??

[Calamity]

Also in the monitor presets thread it says this:

Additionally, and opposite to GroovyMAME, VMMaker needs the MonitorType = "CUSTOM" option in order to process any monitor_specs lines.

So what should MonitorType = in mame.ini ??
I think I have that set to Custom as well.. ??

That thread is outdated, sorry. Now, you need to use "custom" in both cases.

[Sledge]

How do I add 800x600 as a resolution to be available as native/custom etc
Need it to be available for PC Games.... (Monitor does display that resolution)
I think this is why SFxTekken crashes at startup...
If I start the cabinet with an LCD, SFxT works fine...

[Calamity]

Hi Sledge,

You have two ways of adding the 800x600 resolution:

- Add a definition for it in ReslList.txt, following the format in there (spaces included). Then select a monitor preset that's capable of that resolution in vmmaker.ini, and run VMMaker, or

- Use Winmodelines to add an 800x600 modeline.

[Sledge]

- Add a definition for it in ReslList.txt, following the format in there (spaces included). Then select a monitor preset that's capable of that resolution in vmmaker.ini, and run VMMaker, or

I did try this, but it didn't seem to work..
in VMMaker I'm using the CUSTOM preset

Will have a look at Winmodelines and see if I can work that out..

[Sledge]

Hi.. umm.. me again
So I'm trying to use winmodelines...
added this mode line:
Modeline "800x600_50,0Hz 16,0KHz (60Hz)" 15.823 800 808 883 992 600 601 607 638 interlace -hsync -vsync
seems to be available and working...
But SFxTekken still crashes
Any ideas what I could try next?

Should I try to make it a 60Hz mode? if so how?
Should I try adding some 31Khz modelines even if I don't use them... maybe they will help SFxTK to start? if so.. how?

I tried loading winmodelines in XP to see if it would show me what the modeline is for 800x600, but it only lists the 15Khz modes in there...

[Sledge]

Also the reason why I'm thinking it may be something to do with 800x600 is this in the readme as a requirement:

Monitor:
       800 x 600（SVGA） or higher

In game though it allows me to choose 640x480 as a resolution

[Calamity]

Should I try to make it a 60Hz mode? if so how?

You can't make it a 60 Hz mode due to the frequencies involved. But you can keep the same modeline and label it as 60 Hz, (800x600_50). This can be done with Winmodelines, by editing the figures between " ".

[Sledge]

Should I try to make it a 60Hz mode? if so how?

You can't make it a 60 Hz mode due to the frequencies involved. But you can keep the same modeline and label it as 60 Hz, (800x600_50). This can be done with Winmodelines, by editing the figures between " ".

Well that didn't help SFxTekken
there must be some reason for it not to be working..
Works fine in XP with Calamity drivers... hrmmm...
If I start the PC with and LCD connected, then switch to a 15khz mode, switch to the Arcade screen, SFxTK runs.. but slowly.. and in a window
If I go fullscreen, the game runs faster, but split into 2 screens through the JPAC

Edit:
Just found another game that works with LCD but not Arcade screen... Star defender 4

[Sledge]

well just tried with an AVGA, and SFxTekken still doesn't work....
Oh well.. just have to do without that game I guess...

[Calamity]

It could be Windows 7 is reporting your manually added 800x600 modelines as having a halved refresh, like 25 or 30, because they're interlaced, so the game can't find them. Try adding a real 800x600 SVGA mode through Winmodelines using the VESA GTF preset so the game will find it (obviously, don't try this mode on your arcade monitor!).

Anyway, as a general rule, a program that crashes or refuses to run because it doesn't find a certain resolution is a poorly coded program, if you ask me. Blame its creators.

[Sledge]

It could be Windows 7 is reporting your manually added 800x600 modelines as having a halved refresh, like 25 or 30, because they're interlaced, so the game can't find them. Try adding a real 800x600 SVGA mode through Winmodelines using the VESA GTF preset so the game will find it (obviously, don't try this mode on your arcade monitor!).

Anyway, as a general rule, a program that crashes or refuses to run because it doesn't find a certain resolution is a poorly coded program, if you ask me. Blame its creators.

Sorry.. I tried this with an absolutely fresh install of windows...

And yes, I do blame it's creators

[Sledge]

Just thought i'd put this here in case it's an issue with the monitor setup, rather than start a new thread..

I just went to play Moon Patrol but i get a scrambled screen:

I'm currently using:

monitor = custom
crt_range0  15450-16050, 50-65, 3.910, 4.700, 6.850, 0.190, 0.191, 1.018, 0, 0, 192, 288, 448, 576

but, it does the same thing using the ms929 preset as well..

any idea what could be going wrong?
My friend who also has an AVGA, says it works for him.. chooses 256x256 for him also...

All games that use 256x256 seem to be the same...
Maybe just the h-hold need adjusting?

[Calamity]

All games that use 256x256 seem to be the same...
Maybe just the h-hold need adjusting?

Sure.

[Sledge]

All games that use 256x256 seem to be the same...
Maybe just the h-hold need adjusting?

Sure.

Yep
All good now!
wasn't a software issue

[Dalba]

Hello,
on my nanao MS9-29 if i use the specific user monitor preset in vmmaker and use "ms929" in mame.ini as monitor type, i just can't have resolutions correctly centered. But if i use the default custom preset in vmmaker, and set "arcade_15" in mame.ini, all my resolutions are near perfectly centered.
I also have a nanao MS-2931, and i can use the specifics preset in vmmaker and mame.ini without problems !
So am i the only one suffering problems with nanao ms9-29 presets ?   I'm using xp32 with crt_emu 9.3. Using x1900xt or hd4350 and changing crt_emu driver 6.5 or 9.3 never solve this problem.

[Calamity]

on my nanao MS9-29 if i use the specific user monitor preset in vmmaker and use "ms929" in mame.ini as monitor type, i just can't have resolutions correctly centered. But if i use the default custom preset in vmmaker, and set "arcade_15" in mame.ini, all my resolutions are near perfectly centered.

A given preset is not supposed to end up centered magically, you usually need to readjust your monitor potentiometers the first time. However, if the "arcade_15" preset matches better your current monitor adjustment, just stick with it, unless your ms9-29 is one of the auto-switching models (15/25 kHz).

[Dalba]

By "not centered correctly" i mean that if i adjust one game in 320x240 for example, others resolution won't be centered. Some will have black borders on one side, some will be out of screen on left or right... 
With default custom preset in vmmaker, and arcade_15 in mame, i just have to center one resolution and all the rest is ok...  That's why i wonder if preset for ms9-29 submitted by user is correct, or if it is a problem on groovymame side...

[Sledge]

FYI as above i'm using this:
monitor = custom
crt_range0  15450-16050, 50-65, 3.910, 4.700, 6.850, 0.190, 0.191, 1.018, 0, 0, 192, 288, 448, 576

though i have easy access to the v-size pot for games that run at 288 lines...

horizontally speaking though, i think most of my games are centered, except for maybe Street fighter games maybe move a little... but nothing major..

[Calamity]

Dalba, it could be your monitor reacts slightly different from Sledge's. For running fixed-sync, or dual-sync monitors but only using the 15 kHz range, my advice is to use the standard presets (arcade_15, etc.).