Dream features for a new PCI-e card for arcade games?

[John Blund]

Hi!

Today Santa is in town, and is taking up requests. 

I am thinking of making a PCI-e card for PC's. But the thing is that I want to make something to make new arcade games with jamma connectors. This year I will start at a new school that is dedicated at learning how make custom computers. And arcade games is custom computers, so that would be fun. I have been designing electronics for over 15 years. But now I'm ready for the next step  No emulation will now be necessary, today you can integrate complicated integrated logic designs, in one or two standard chips. New graphics chips, sound chips or CPU:s, custom memory configurations, or what ever.

What would be a great card do you think? Do you want to have the card connected to a PC, or should it be stand alone. And what features would be nice? All old nice problems that you hate can be solved if they just are mentioned. If nothing else, I'm thinking of a stand alone card to make new games on. And that could run old games without emulation as well, even if that is not my primary target. When it is finished I am thinking of making it all free. And if there is others that want to join, it could be an open project from start to end. But at this stage it would just be cool if you had something that you have been looking for, that you have not found yet.

What is your dream that needs to become true?

[emphatic]

Hey man, glad to see you posting here! I think that a JAMMA board that can be programmed from a PC using USB would be convenient. I know very little about creating games myself, but I think some kind of encryption would be important too as it might attract small game studios to release games to the home arcade crowd (or are there any operators still working today that would pick this up?).

My wishlist:

1. JAMMA edge connector
2. JAMMA+ connector with a standardized connector that is easy to get hold of for buttons 5+6
3. Stereo output (low level) as well as the amplified mono on the JAMMA edge connector
4. Standalone, small-footprint JAMMA PCB - No need to hook it up to a PC or additional hardware such as ATX PSU

Perhaps discuss this with the author of GroovyMAME and get a list of common components this hardware can replicate (or is it emulated?) and see if GroovyMAME can use the components directly instead of emulating them using software. Kinda like using a GPU's hardware acceleration for playing back HD video instead of having the CPU + software do it.

Note for BYOAC regulars, have no fear about the above poster being "that guy" btw. I had a conversation about arcade hardware with "John Blund" (Swedish for "Sandman") last evening at a party, he's not crazy.

[John Blund]

Well I think that making your own hardware in logic, is a bit like a black art these days. But there is still some of us left.


Now to get on with the wish list to Santa  .

1 JAMMA... no problem.
2 JAMMA+ with more buttons... no problem.
3 Stereo sound... no problem.
4 Stand alone card without -12V (ATX PSU)... no problem.


Yes, but I think that you come with an even greater more genuine Idea. Maybe some kind of API could be used to configure half breeds between MAME and logic replicas of arcade hardware. That would be way cool. I'm not sure what the most common components in arcade games is. But lets say I implement two Z80 chips, configurable address space, ROM and RAM and two AY8910, and some different graphics hardware to begin with. Then we could get at least 50 to 100 games working as hardware replicas.

But I would need someone to help me with making a custom version of MAME. Then I could do the hardware design, and write the drivers for Linux and Windows for the card. This will be all needed to get cycle exact hardware replicas of these games. It would not be emulations any more. In this way, the feeling would be great and NO ONE could ever complain that it's not the real hardware.  If you want to get any more real than this, then you have to connect the old arcade PCB's we all have stacked in piles . Then all die hards don't have to switch boards any more to get the purist touch. No more lag or glitches ever, as in the old times!!!

I think it could be quite doable. There is open source logic descriptions of most processors used in arcade games, so the hardest parts is already done.

I am quite willing to make this happen. But I surly don't know anyone, that know MAME inside out. If there is someone that is willing to modify MAME for this purpose. Then I will make the hardware to make the old games run from these configuration descriptions that we will send over USB to a stand alone card (yes you can make a PCI-e on the board also for flexibility, and can be a great during development). What I need is someone to talk to about this, that know the ins and outs of MAME. And someone that are willing to spend time modifying MAME.

I think that would be a great start... If you know anyone, that may know anyone, that is capable of modifying MAME, then let them know. Then it would be great. If I cant find anyone thats willing to spend time modifying MAME, then I will just do a board with JAMMA. It would we fun to run own games in a arcade cabinet also.

Wouldn't it be great with real hardware and to skip software emulation of hardware? No more bios startup 

[emphatic]

There is of course the legality to consider. MAME's license is pretty straightforward on what's allowed and not, there are a couple of free roms out there, but most games supported by MAME is copyright protected and making multi-game cards is frowned upon. Therefor, getting a MAME dev onboard a project like this might be difficult at best, they might even oppose it.

[404]

instead of builing your own pci-e card, why not modify the bios of existnig cards to allow 15kz signals on lower resolutions and use that as a thesis for school

[Malenko]

instead of builing your own pci-e card, why not modify the bios of existnig cards to allow 15kz signals on lower resolutions and use that as a thesis for school

like the AVGA?

[404]

instead of builing your own pci-e card, why not modify the bios of existnig cards to allow 15kz signals on lower resolutions and use that as a thesis for school

like the AVGA?

yep

[emphatic]

But that would need to hook a whole computer up to this instead of having a small standalone card you install in a JAMMA cabinet. I personally hate playing on computers and never use my 2 J-Pacs as it involves non-stop hassle (in my experience).

[John Blund]

instead of builing your own pci-e card, why not modify the bios of existnig cards to allow 15kz signals on lower resolutions and use that as a thesis for school

Well, the reason is simple. I have looked around and there are no cards that even come near what I am looking for.

[NIVO]

jamma edge is nice. But if this might be a all-n-1 card go ahead and throw on a encoder/multi-device function(s) as well. Also a pci-e card is great, but heck how about a SoC thumbdrive? On the other side of the drive is a micro-sdhc slot capable of handling up to 64gb cards. Plug-n-play baby.

[Xiaou2]

Some of the Devs have expressed interest in a Hardware based mame.  I suggest you post on Mameworld forum, where a lot of them hang out.  Even if they were not.. Im pretty sure someone would be interested.  Any time there has been some hardware produced... eventually a version of mame has been created for it.

 As for the idea... I think its cool.  However, if you lock your technology into a video card... and then computers change Slot types due to new advances... your card will be obsolete.

 Eventually, old Pc hardware will fail.. especially in these days, where things are made as cheaply as possible.

 I wonder if some sort of pass-thru box might be a better idea?  Stand-Alone device?  I dunno.

 I do also agree that some form of flash memory slot option may be nice as well.
(but not limited to that alone)

 A big factor to consider, is making sure there is full unique controller capability.. such as spinners, trackballs, pedals, shifters... and even unique controllers.  4 speaker output would be good too. Shaker motors, Force Feedback wheels, Lamp output, arcade guns....etc..


 When we think of Mame  -vs-  a hardware multikit...  the advantage usually goes to mame in software format, because of mames flexibilities and lack of restrictions.

 I think something has to be exceptional, and give functionality that isnt easily achieved in mame, to really be successful.

 
 How about instead...to develop something to compliment the many missing things in emulated games, both mame, and elsewhere?   


A common problem with Driving games is lack of good shifter support.  There are multiple kinds of arcade shifters.  2 way arcade shifters cant be used with standard mame.. due to the press and release toggle issue.  Shifters use hold-down to activate. But mame simply toggles by a button press.

 Additionally, if you had an 4, 5, or 6 way shifter,  NO emulated games, or console games, and even most PC games.. wouldnt allow its proper use.  I think a system Could be developed to send pulses based on the position the shifter is in.

 Analog shifter support would also be desired. Race Drivin's analog shifter design is probably the best ever developed.  They would work great for Race Drivin as-is,  as well as any other game... if they were read and translated correctly via hardware, to a digital form.

 A toggle mode button(s), would allow flexibility for on-the-fly functionality changes, of the type of device, and how its being translated... for all around compatibility and flexibility.    (allowing multiple shifter types if one really wanted it.. as well as ability to read multiple ways without too much hassle)


 Then you have issued with force feedback.   Mame only supports it externally, with Howards 'Mame Hooker' program.  But most people have only basic wiring skill.. and do not have the hardware / electrical knowledge to out together a real force feedback wheel interface, coil interface...etc.   With mame hooker (or similar) , and a simple pre-built kit, one could get a ffb wheel, or wire some Terminator 2 coils up... and have the correct arcade experience.    It might also be used in conjunction with scripting/programming,  in other emulators or games... to add things to games that never existed before.  Such as a force feedback coil tripping when a character is hit on the screen, in a fighting game.
(a good example of this showed up recently with a program that looks for the Tron Light Cycle stage, then disables diagonals when it detects it)

 Direct force feedback output might also be handled directly in mame, should the hardware be readily available...rather than use an outside program like Mamehooker.  Missing hardware has always been a huge stumbling block.

 Light output support, is in many devices.. However, Im not so sure how easy it is... or if its even possible.. to drive a games leds per emulation.  Such as in Spy Hunters weapons lights... or T2's leds that flash based on the games gun power levels.

Real pinball control might be a farfetched output dream.. but with Pinmame and a good hardware kit.. Pinball machines might be able to be reproduced.
(or at least just some coils activated for better simulated flippers or pop bumper activity)

[Malenko]

Some of the Devs have expressed interest in a Hardware based mame.  I suggest you post on Mameworld forum, where a lot of them hang out.  Even if they were not.. Im pretty sure someone would be interested.  Any time there has been some hardware produced... eventually a version of mame has been created for it.

 As for the idea... I think its cool.  However, if you lock your technology into a video card... and then computers change Slot types due to new advances... your card will be obsolete.

 Eventually, old Pc hardware will fail.. especially in these days, where things are made as cheaply as possible.

 I wonder if some sort of pass-thru box might be a better idea?  Stand-Alone device?  I dunno.

 I do also agree that some form of flash memory slot option may be nice as well.
(but not limited to that alone)

 A big factor to consider, is making sure there is full unique controller capability.. such as spinners, trackballs, pedals, shifters... and even unique controllers.  4 speaker output would be good too. Shaker motors, Force Feedback wheels, Lamp output, arcade guns....etc..


 When we think of Mame  -vs-  a hardware multikit...  the advantage usually goes to mame in software format, because of mames flexibilities and lack of restrictions.

 I think something has to be exceptional, and give functionality that isnt easily achieved in mame, to really be successful.

 
 How about instead...to develop something to compliment the many missing things in emulated games, both mame, and elsewhere?  


A common problem with Driving games is lack of good shifter support.  There are multiple kinds of arcade shifters.  2 way arcade shifters cant be used with standard mame.. due to the press and release toggle issue.  Shifters use hold-down to activate. But mame simply toggles by a button press.

 Additionally, if you had an 4, 5, or 6 way shifter,  NO emulated games, or console games, and even most PC games.. wouldnt allow its proper use.  I think a system Could be developed to send pulses based on the position the shifter is in.

 Analog shifter support would also be desired. Race Drivin's analog shifter design is probably the best ever developed.  They would work great for Race Drivin as-is,  as well as any other game... if they were read and translated correctly via hardware, to a digital form.

 A toggle mode button(s), would allow flexibility for on-the-fly functionality changes, of the type of device, and how its being translated... for all around compatibility and flexibility.    (allowing multiple shifter types if one really wanted it.. as well as ability to read multiple ways without too much hassle)


 Then you have issued with force feedback.   Mame only supports it externally, with Howards 'Mame Hooker' program.  But most people have only basic wiring skill.. and do not have the hardware / electrical knowledge to out together a real force feedback wheel interface, coil interface...etc.   With mame hooker (or similar) , and a simple pre-built kit, one could get a ffb wheel, or wire some Terminator 2 coils up... and have the correct arcade experience.    It might also be used in conjunction with scripting/programming,  in other emulators or games... to add things to games that never existed before.  Such as a force feedback coil tripping when a character is hit on the screen, in a fighting game.
(a good example of this showed up recently with a program that looks for the Tron Light Cycle stage, then disables diagonals when it detects it)

 Direct force feedback output might also be handled directly in mame, should the hardware be readily available...rather than use an outside program like Mamehooker.  Missing hardware has always been a huge stumbling block.

 Light output support, is in many devices.. However, Im not so sure how easy it is... or if its even possible.. to drive a games leds per emulation.  Such as in Spy Hunters weapons lights... or T2's leds that flash based on the games gun power levels.

Real pinball control might be a farfetched output dream.. but with Pinmame and a good hardware kit.. Pinball machines might be able to be reproduced.
(or at least just some coils activated for better simulated flippers or pop bumper activity)

[John Blund]

Some of the Devs have expressed interest in a Hardware based mame.  I suggest you post on Mameworld forum, where a lot of them hang out.  Even if they were not.. Im pretty sure someone would be interested.  Any time there has been some hardware produced... eventually a version of mame has been created for it.

Ok, I will check that out. And I have started to learn about how MAME works, it looks like it wasn't that hard as I thought to begin with. I have found a couple of great recourses with inside information. There are many things to learn form the work with MAME and the source code. But the actual MAME software is something I will not use. MAME is emulation, and that is not what I am trying to do.

As for the idea... I think its cool.  However, if you lock your technology into a video card... and then computers change Slot types due to new advances... your card will be obsolete.

 Eventually, old Pc hardware will fail.. especially in these days, where things are made as cheaply as possible.

 I wonder if some sort of pass-thru box might be a better idea?  Stand-Alone device?  I dunno.

 I do also agree that some form of flash memory slot option may be nice as well.
(but not limited to that alone)

Well I can agree. The technology I will use, does not depend on things that go obsolete. And at the moment it looks like the device will be stand alone. And it will probably use some kind of flash card like SD-card. And it will be totally independent from other systems as much as possible.

A big factor to consider, is making sure there is full unique controller capability.. such as spinners, trackballs, pedals, shifters... and even unique controllers.  4 speaker output would be good too. Shaker motors, Force Feedback wheels, Lamp output, arcade guns....etc..

Well, when you make all the hardware, it is easy to support things like that. But for a normal PC, these king of things can be a big problem. Many companies that build components for PC's depend on making hardware obsolete to keep the competition away. Good examples of that is HDMI and Thunderbolt.

When we think of Mame  -vs-  a hardware multikit...  the advantage usually goes to mame in software format, because of mames flexibilities and lack of restrictions.

 I think something has to be exceptional, and give functionality that isnt easily achieved in mame, to really be successful.

 How about instead...to develop something to compliment the many missing things in emulated games, both mame, and elsewhere?   

Well to get rid of Windows, and Linux is a good start I think. They are only in the way if you try to make a good emulation. I think the PC has served well as a platform for emulation. But things has changed. And as the cost of hardware is going down, the biggest cost will eventually be to try to hang on to the chicken race.

Real pinball control might be a farfetched output dream.. but with Pinmame and a good hardware kit.. Pinball machines might be able to be reproduced.
(or at least just some coils activated for better simulated flippers or pop bumper activity)

I didn't know of Pinmame. I will look in to it.

[PL1]

Real pinball control might be a farfetched output dream.. but with Pinmame and a good hardware kit.. Pinball machines might be able to be reproduced.
(or at least just some coils activated for better simulated flippers or pop bumper activity)

I didn't know of Pinmame. I will look in to it.

Here's the place to look.

http://www.vpforums.org/index.php?


Scott

[Yvan256]

You mean something like FPGA Arcade?

My wish-list of features for such a product are:
- stand-alone (no Windows, no Linux, no Mac required)
- can work from a small power supply (ATX is way too big for small projects)
- can access ROM files via CompactFlash or SD cards
- JAMMA connector + whatever other standard connectors for things not available on JAMMA. I'm thinking about maybe using the DB15 Neo-Geo game ports? DB15 connectors are easy to find, even in 2012.
- stereo line level output (1/8" stereo connector would be fine)
- can output to composite, S-Video, VGA, DVI-D/HDMI (you never know what kind of monitor each project might require)
- hardware scanning lines options would be nice, if the output resolution allows it (depending on which video output was used, of course)
- built-in game selection interface (nothing fancy, but configurable to at least one full-screen image per game, or ideally using a 32-bit PNG for each game and a 32-bit PNG for the interface overlay to save space and keep the interface editing to a minimum)
- two 8-way joysticks with 6 buttons per player minimum
- trackball and spinner
- steering wheel, accelerator and brake pedals
- coin mechanisms + player start buttons
- Neo-Geo features (game select button, multi-cart with highlighted selection for DIY backlight mini-marquees, from 1 to 6 games, dual 7-segment credit displays for each player)
- output the selected ROM filename on a SPI port (or something) for dynamic LCD marquees, even from the game selection interface

So, as you see, I'm not asking for much. 

[John Blund]

You mean something like FPGA Arcade?

My wish-list of features for such a product are:
- stand-alone (no Windows, no Linux, no Mac required)
- can work from a small power supply (ATX is way too big for small projects)

Ok, there must be a way to use it even if you don't use Jamma, is that what I'm hearing? Well I think it would be nice to use it out of the box also. But it should be easy to use it in a cabinet without hassle. I think that to use a PC in a arcade cabinet is just lame. It's just a feeling. Bios and PC's gives me the creeps. A big part of arcade is that it isn't a simple PC. A trouble free solution would always be the best. It should be fun. And installing operating systems isn't what I'm thinking of, when I think of arcade games. Maybe I will upset someone. But lets face it, maybe you can imagine that the PC isn't there. But you can still sense it's presence. Maybe someone can fool you, but that isn't what I am about. If you want a hammer, than you buy a real hammer, not a toy that looks like a hammer.

- can access ROM files via CompactFlash or SD cards
- JAMMA connector + whatever other standard connectors for things not available on JAMMA. I'm thinking about maybe using the DB15 Neo-Geo game ports? DB15 connectors are easy to find, even in 2012.
- stereo line level output (1/8" stereo connector would be fine)
- can output to composite, S-Video, VGA, DVI-D/HDMI (you never know what kind of monitor each project might require)

Ok, the neo geo thing is nothing that I have thought of. I may be a great idea. And different video formats is good. But HDMI has to be a add-on. HDMI isn't a connector, it's the devil itself. I would not bring satan upon this project. If anyone made an add-on it would be okay, but I won't go near it. HDMI is DRM, if you pay for it, then it's the same as being insane. It will only make the ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- lag.

 

- hardware scanning lines options would be nice, if the output resolution allows it (depending on which video output was used, of course)
- built-in game selection interface (nothing fancy, but configurable to at least one full-screen image per game, or ideally using a 32-bit PNG for each game and a 32-bit PNG for the interface overlay to save space and keep the interface editing to a minimum)
- two 8-way joysticks with 6 buttons per player minimum
- trackball and spinner
- steering wheel, accelerator and brake pedals
- coin mechanisms + player start buttons
- Neo-Geo features (game select button, multi-cart with highlighted selection for DIY backlight mini-marquees, from 1 to 6 games, dual 7-segment credit displays for each player)
[...]
So, as you see, I'm not asking for much. 

Well you sort of ask for the same things as the others. But you give more reasons to do it. I'm thinking that there must be a good way of wire up custom things. I think that it would be great if it was easy. Maybe connectors for attaching small boards, for soldering or what ever. And if you do anything wrong, you would just replace that single part.

How to make the game selection is something to give more thoughts. It have to feel like it's a part of the game, but I don't know how that have to look like. Anyone who has thoughts about that?

- output the selected ROM filename on a SPI port (or something) for dynamic LCD marquees, even from the game selection interface

Well that a great idea to utilize a common standard. Then you can use of the self parts, that will be here for a long time. More thoughts like that.

[Vidiot]

I'm watching this closely. 

[Le Chuck]

I would love some real arcade lightgun support. If Santa can make a box that let's me plug in a happs gun and have it play in MAME that would be some amazing stuff and really add a lot to current setups.

[Vidiot]

I would love some real arcade lightgun support. If Santa can make a box that let's me plug in a happs gun and have it play in MAME that would be some amazing stuff and really add a lot to current setups.

Now that's what I'm talk'n 'bout. 

[rockyrocket]

Pinmame can control a real pin jst fine, take a look at this...
http://www.vpforums.org/index.php?showtopic=17696
A bit off topic but some other pincab related projects are..
http://www.pindmd.com/default.php   I have one of these!.
and
http://www.hyperspin-fe.com/forum/showthread.php?15644-LED-wiz-alternative

[emphatic]

That HDMI rant made me LOL.  How about just DVI and SPDIF then? 

[John Blund]

Pinmame can control a real pin jst fine, take a look at this...
http://www.vpforums.org/index.php?showtopic=17696
A bit off topic but some other pincab related projects are..
http://www.pindmd.com/default.php   I have one of these!.
and
http://www.hyperspin-fe.com/forum/showthread.php?15644-LED-wiz-alternative

Thanks for showing me this. What a total ripoff!!! More than $300 for that P-ROC board. Then the cost of a PC on top of that  . Can any one name the price this will land on? Looks like they need help more than us.

Well we could do a lot better than this it's for sure. It looks like they have had severe problems with the pinMAME project. But actually I don't know much about it. But it looks some kind of pricey to me. But what do you think? What would be a totally okay price for a hardware without any software emulation, to run all those rom's?

[John Blund]

That HDMI rant made me LOL.  How about just DVI and SPDIF then? 

  Well I could put like 10 VGA or DVI ports on that board for the price of one HDMI port.

And DHMI is not worthy a true gamer. I wonder why NVIDIA is spending this amount of effort to make that ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- work... http://www.nvidia.com/object/cloud-gaming-benefits.html

[rockyrocket]

Personally I dont think cost is too much of an issue in this hobby, but i may be wrong.
Not sure  PC free virtual pinball cabinets can be produced as pinmame only covers the rom emulation of course and a pc is needed for the table rendering and physics simulation.
But some people do recreate real pins,  it may be good for you to ask what people may like on the vpforum and the hyperpin site (i can do this for you if you like)
Below are some more links to other projects
http://benheck.com/03-16-2010/bill-paxton-pinball
http://www.vpforums.org/index.php?showtopic=18203
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=111201.0
Analogue nudging and a good plunger solution are two things people are trying to get right

[John Blund]

Personally I dont think cost is too much of an issue in this hobby, but i may be wrong.
Not sure  PC free virtual pinball cabinets can be produced as pinmame only covers the rom emulation of course and a pc is needed for the table rendering and physics simulation.
But some people do recreate real pins,  it may be good for you to ask what people may like on the vpforum and the hyperpin site (i can do this for you if you like)
Below are some more links to other projects
http://benheck.com/03-16-2010/bill-paxton-pinball
http://www.vpforums.org/index.php?showtopic=18203
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=111201.0
Analogue nudging and a good plunger solution are two things people are trying to get right

I don't have any pinball game, so it's kind of hard for me to test these things.  But I will keep my eyes open, maybe I will do something later on as i like to play pinball also. But any good insights about how to make a good pinball card would be welcome.

 

[John Blund]

Is there any one, who has any ideas about how you could make a project like this open source in a constructive way? The main reason would then be to make it possible to continue development.

[Le Chuck]

John, If you need controllers or parts to start testing some of this stuff out I'd be willing to provide one of the standard Happ 45 Cal. Optical Guns if you decide to try your hand at light gun integration.  I may also have an analog controller I can send your way as well.  Getting the roms and cards running would be awesome but without really versatile controller support the utility will be limited. 

I don't know much about making a project open source but I do know that the arduino folks seemed to have cracked that nut so perhaps there are some cues that can be taken from them.   

[John Blund]

John, If you need controllers or parts to start testing some of this stuff out I'd be willing to provide one of the standard Happ 45 Cal. Optical Guns if you decide to try your hand at light gun integration.  I may also have an analog controller I can send your way as well.  Getting the roms and cards running would be awesome but without really versatile controller support the utility will be limited. 

I don't know much about making a project open source but I do know that the arduino folks seemed to have cracked that nut so perhaps there are some cues that can be taken from them.   

Yes I have looked a lot on arduino, not because I like it, but because I admire the way they has got people to engage.

Well it would be nice with gun integration. But what games is it that use these? I have to look at the specifications for these games. I have to be able to support the processors that these machines use. I looked at virtua cop for example, and it uses a i960 and thats a problem, the games need to use more common processors. For best luck, it would be games that was produced in the early 90s. What games should I check out?

Is these guns made to be used by CRT monitor? Is these Happ 45 Cal. Optical Guns common? if so i could make it possible to wire it in to the board. Is it someone that knows what connector it is that is used inside the arcade?

I am going to start to work on the PCB (the design of the card itself) today. And I will work out dimensions and holes to place it in a cabinet, and connectors and things like that. Anyone that has thoughts about that?



 

[John Blund]

Well it would be nice with gun integration. But what games is it that use these? I have to look at the specifications for these games. I have to be able to support the processors that these machines use. I looked at virtua cop for example, and it uses a i960 and thats a problem, the games need to use more common processors. For best luck, it would be games that was produced in the early 90s. What games should I check out?

Is these guns made to be used by CRT monitor? Is these Happ 45 Cal. Optical Guns common? if so i could make it possible to wire it in to the board. Is it someone that knows what connector it is that is used inside the arcade?

I am going to start to work on the PCB (the design of the card itself) today. And I will work out dimensions and holes to place it in a cabinet, and connectors and things like that. Anyone that has thoughts about that?

Answering my self here :-)

It looks like the connector for a happ gun would connect to a standard 5pin header. And it's designed for CRT. I could make it work without any problem. Now it's only down to games that I can support for this feature.

[Vidiot]

Some of the most common gun games I can think of would be Lethal Enforcers, Area 51, Police Trainer and Point Blank.

[John Blund]

Some of the most common gun games I can think of would be Lethal Enforcers, Area 51, Police Trainer and Point Blank.

Point blank is the most likely to get support for first. It looks like most of these games use odd things. But I have at least decided to build in support for guns on the card. But I think it will take some time before these old games gets supported. But when it's possible, then you connect the board to USB and upgrades, it's as simple as that.

[John Blund]

John, If you need controllers or parts to start testing some of this stuff out I'd be willing to provide one of the standard Happ 45 Cal. Optical Guns if you decide to try your hand at light gun integration.  I may also have an analog controller I can send your way as well.  Getting the roms and cards running would be awesome but without really versatile controller support the utility will be limited. 

What games use analog controllers? And how are they usually connected?

[Le Chuck]

John, If you need controllers or parts to start testing some of this stuff out I'd be willing to provide one of the standard Happ 45 Cal. Optical Guns if you decide to try your hand at light gun integration.  I may also have an analog controller I can send your way as well.  Getting the roms and cards running would be awesome but without really versatile controller support the utility will be limited. 

What games use analog controllers? And how are they usually connected?

A lot of games use analog controls, either in a flight yoke or accelerator/brake.  Most steering wheels used rotary encoders but some used pots I think.  Some of the classic gun games are analog controllers also. 

Afterburner
STUN Runner
Star Wars Arcade
Star Wars Racer Arcade
T2: Judgement Day
Spacegun
Jurassic Park
Star Wars
Return of the Jedi
Empire Strikes Back
Food Fight
Road Runner
Red Barron
I Robot
Space Harrier
Monkey Ball
Hang On
Super Hang On
Lunar Lander

All of these are titles with analog controllers (feel free to correct this list if I have put anything in that isn't) and I'm pretty sure there are a log more out there that fit into this list.

[John Blund]

John, If you need controllers or parts to start testing some of this stuff out I'd be willing to provide one of the standard Happ 45 Cal. Optical Guns if you decide to try your hand at light gun integration.  I may also have an analog controller I can send your way as well.  Getting the roms and cards running would be awesome but without really versatile controller support the utility will be limited. 

What games use analog controllers? And how are they usually connected?

A lot of games use analog controls, either in a flight yoke or accelerator/brake.  Most steering wheels used rotary encoders but some used pots I think.  Some of the classic gun games are analog controllers also. 

Afterburner
STUN Runner
Star Wars Arcade
Star Wars Racer Arcade
T2: Judgement Day
Spacegun
Jurassic Park
Star Wars
Return of the Jedi
Empire Strikes Back
Food Fight
Road Runner
Red Barron
I Robot
Space Harrier
Monkey Ball
Hang On
Super Hang On
Lunar Lander

All of these are titles with analog controllers (feel free to correct this list if I have put anything in that isn't) and I'm pretty sure there are a log more out there that fit into this list.

Well I'm keeping a list of games that I'm going after before the others. I just put up afterburner on that list.

[PL1]

any good insights about how to make a good pinball card would be welcome.

To cover the greatest number of Visual Pinball and Future Pinball tables, you will need inputs for:

Coin
Start
Plunger/Ball Launcher
R/Flipper
L/Flipper
L/Up/Flipper
R/Up/Flipper
L/Magnasave
R/Magnasave
Fwd/Nudge
L/Nudge
R/Nudge
Pause
Exit
Quit (Visual Pinball)

Future Pinball also supports using a mouse input for plunger/launcher.  I'll be posting soon about my controller build that uses realistic pinball shooter hardware and a laser gaming mouse.

You may also want to have x- and y-axis analog nudge inputs, even though the analog encoder details may not be refined yet.

If you need to reduce the number of inputs, Upper flipper and Magnasave can be combined by outputting 2 keystrokes for 1 button press since any table that uses upper flippers doesn't use Magnasaves, and any table that uses Magnasaves doesn't use upper flippers.


Scott

[John Blund]

John, If you need controllers or parts to start testing some of this stuff out I'd be willing to provide one of the standard Happ 45 Cal. Optical Guns if you decide to try your hand at light gun integration.  I may also have an analog controller I can send your way as well.  Getting the roms and cards running would be awesome but without really versatile controller support the utility will be limited. 

What games use analog controllers? And how are they usually connected?

A lot of games use analog controls, either in a flight yoke or accelerator/brake.  Most steering wheels used rotary encoders but some used pots I think.  Some of the classic gun games are analog controllers also. 

How many analog inputs are needed? 4 or more?

[Le Chuck]

I'm pretty sure four pots covers any game I can think of, most don't use more than three and a lot use only two so I'd say that four would be great.  Four analog inputs, two light gun inputs, and compliment of standard joy and button inputs would be a impressive feat I'd think.  Maybe throw in a rotary support and call it a day?

[PL1]

I'm pretty sure four pots covers any game I can think of, most don't use more than three and a lot use only two so I'd say that four would be great.  Four analog inputs, two light gun inputs, and compliment of standard joy and button inputs would be a impressive feat I'd think.  Maybe throw in a rotary support and call it a day?

What if someone wants to set up a 2 Player racing cab? 

Wouldn't that would be 6 - 2 ea. of wheel, gas, and brake.

7 if you use a SW yoke for one position.


Scott

[Le Chuck]

I'm pretty sure four pots covers any game I can think of, most don't use more than three and a lot use only two so I'd say that four would be great.  Four analog inputs, two light gun inputs, and compliment of standard joy and button inputs would be a impressive feat I'd think.  Maybe throw in a rotary support and call it a day?

What if someone wants to set up a 2 Player racing cab? 

Wouldn't that would be 6 - 2 ea. of wheel, gas, and brake.

7 if you use a SW yoke for one position.


Scott

In that case the ability to daisy chain boards would be a nice functionality.  That way the "what-ifs" can be taken care of by telling the guy to get a second board.  If the guy was cheap he could go with digital brakes and make it okay with 4... who brakes anyway? Braking is for squares. 

[John Blund]

I'm pretty sure four pots covers any game I can think of, most don't use more than three and a lot use only two so I'd say that four would be great.  Four analog inputs, two light gun inputs, and compliment of standard joy and button inputs would be a impressive feat I'd think.  Maybe throw in a rotary support and call it a day?

What would be a "compliment of standard joy and button inputs"? JAMMA+ or what?
Games that use 2 trackballs: Atari Football, Track & Field, Cabal, Marble Madness.
Looks like SegaSonic the Hedgehog, and Rampart uses 3 trackballs.

As pins is almost for free, I could add some just some on the board for completeness...
3x trackballs (6 encoders),
2x extra joysticks for Gauntlet and others,
2x light gun inputs,
8x analog input channels.
+ some extra spare I/O..
...I think that this will fit in a 20x2 standard header on the board.

1x JAMMA+ connector with stereo sound, and extra buttons.
1x VGA connector with separate graphics output, not the same signals as those on the JAMMA connector.
1x 3.5mm stereo audiojack or 2x RCA for sound (not decided yet).
1x SD card slot for your ROM copies,
1x USB for upgrading.
1x More on board RAM memory, than needed to play all NEO GEO games.

Thats about it.

No harddisk,
No fans,
No moving parts,
No PC,
No software emulation,
No operating system,
No lag,

Just Real Hardware...

All we need is love 

Anyone interested?
Just sign below :-)

I think thats about it. I think I could get it ready october-november, if some one want to beta test.

In October we will see how many games i have managed to support. But It will be total mayhem in the beginning and it could be good with some beta testers with balls of steel, there will be hundreds of games to test. I will be doing much of the initial testing on another platform starting in about 4 weeks, but will try to get this dedicated JAMMA platform as fast as possible. And I will have one month of research until then... No rocket science, but it will be a small steep for man but a big steep for gaming  I have to get some girls giviŽn me some sweet lovin to manage this 

Well this is the new dawn of hardware, I think we are somewhere around 1998 in MAME time at the moment. And we have some catching up to do...
And I think 1998, 1999 might be some fine years before the new Melania.

And I have reserved 100% of my time one year from now to hardware. I'm going to study asic design and custom computers fore one year. I think they made a c64 in a joystick, and now I want to make an entire arcade hall in a game pad