Opinions on microswitches and soldering please

[nakeworks]

So I have the microswitches that came with my Ultimarc buttons and I don't like them.  It's the loud click and how hard they are to depress.  I did a search through old topics and most seemed dated so I was wondering what you guys prefer for a softer, quieter microswitch.  

Also, I have heard that soldering your connections to the MS is a better connection.  It seems so "final" to me.  What is your opinion on soldering vs. quick disconnects.  And do you prefer insulated quick disconnects?

As always, thanks.

PS.  Yes, I tried the FAQ.

[ChadTower]

There is nothing final about soldering to a switch.  A decent solderer can remove them just as quickly as if it were a QD.

I solder to all of mine because it's easier, faster, and I don't have to keep QDs in stock.

[HaRuMaN]

I'm a soldering maniac, but I always use QD's.  I like being able to change things on the fly without having to break out a soldering iron.

[nakeworks]

There is nothing final about soldering to a switch.  A decent solderer can remove them just as quickly as if it were a QD.

Definitely not included in that subset.  Thanks for the advice.  Any opinion on microswitches?

[Nephasth]

There is nothing final about soldering to a switch.  A decent solderer can remove them just as quickly as if it were a QD.
I solder to all of mine because it's easier, faster, and I don't have to keep QDs in stock.

---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow---. In the time it takes a soldering iron to heat up, I can have all of my QDs removed... And I can install a QD on the end of a wire just as fast as a wire can be soldered to a male QD terminal. Wires soldered to switch terminals is a big pet peeve of mine... But to each his own.

Any opinion on microswitches?

I have 50 gram microswitches on my buttons (because they were the cheapest). I'm pleased with them...

[Mysterioii]

The switches that come with groovy game gear buttons seem nice and quiet to me....  personally I don't mind a little click to my pushbuttons but I like quieter joysticks, so when I get around to redesigning my control panel I plan on moving those switches that came with the buttons onto my Magstik pluses, which are pretty noisy.

Technically soldering is a better electrical connection than crimp connections and quick disconnects in general, but for arcade pushbuttons it really doesn't matter.  Crimps and disconnects can be a source of noise especially if there's any movement or wiggle at all, but it's just not pertinent to this application IMO.  If you were wiring up data lines for a USB port or something, I'd definitely solder.  For buttons and joysticks, meh I'll just crimp on some quick connects.

Solder isn't permanent but it is more persistent of course.  Takes a little more effort but you can always reverse it if you want to.  Don't get me wrong, I solder a lot of stuff when I need to....  I just don't think you need to in this case.

[nakeworks]

I've heard the Groovy Standard Soft-Touch microswitch from Groovy Game Gear is good.  Anybody have a source or seller they prefer for softer, quieter MS.  Details please.

[ChadTower]

---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow---. In the time it takes a soldering iron to heat up, I can have all of my QDs removed...

It doesn't take a pencil very long to heat up.  We're talking a difference of minutes spread across a whole CP.  Putting 20 QDs on takes about the same amount of time the pencil needs to reach temp.  At that point the soldering is not all that different than slipping on QDs. 

There really isn't much difference either way in time or reliability.  I'm not arguing that soldering is better.  I'm arguing against the idea that it is worse.

[Mysterioii]

the biggest time savings would be if you ever want/need to pull them all off then replace them again.  That being said, my cab is about 7 years old and I haven't had to replace a switch yet.

It also depends on your technique....  I started out working in a civilian engineering department working for the navy many years ago and the guys that taught me were very specific on the technique and it's probably overkill for something like this.  If using stranded wire, when stripping it try to leave the cut piece of insulation on there a little bit then use it as a handle to twist the strands tight before pulling it off....  tin the wire first...  try to make a mechanical connection instead of relying on the solder, so if the eyelets you're attaching to have a hole in them make a hook in your tinned wire and put it through the hole then use needle nose pliers to pinch it closed... oh and we'd be using shrink wrap tubing over each solder joint too, don't wanna leave 'em exposed....  and so on and so forth.  Takes a lot of time to do stuff that way and it's hard to shake old habits.  Sometimes I rush things of course, but more often than not I follow at least an approximation of what was hammered into me.

So for *me* crimping on quick disconnects is a lot faster.  It's really just one of those things where you'll eventually find your own way if you do it enough.

[HaRuMaN]

A good ratcheting crimper makes a huge difference when using QD's. 

[ChadTower]

The biggest issue for me is that if I need 24 QDs I will always have 22 in stock.  Always.

[TOK]

Nearly all of the original arcade games used soldered connections because it was cheaper and less of a chance of them getting accidentally popped off in shipping/service.

I've used quick disconnects on all 3 of my MAME cabs, and just don't think its an issue for home use. I built my original cab in around 2004, and its been moved multiple times and played for hundreds (if not thousands) of hours without ever having to mess with them.

[nakeworks]

Ok, I'm set on soldering vs QD.

Can I get some ideas on switches?  Has anyone used the "Versa-Micro User-Adjustable Arcade Switch from Groovy Game Gear.  Sounds perfect but haven't heard much from anyone about it.   

[Mysterioii]

Haha seems like most people here were advocating crimp on quick disconnects and one guy advocated soldering, so you picked soldering...      No offense to anyone intended, like I said it's really up to you, but I just though that was funny...

I haven't used those "user adjustable switches" but I think the "user adjustable" part means bending the tab?  And I think that's more an issue for joysticks where someone might want a shorter throw or something.  I may be wrong about that.  But really, the ones that come with the GGG buttons seem fine to me.

[Mat]

My player buttons are GGG units with the standard microswitches (all black with"Zippy" on them).  I installed one in a Happ button for comparison.  They're definitely quieter than the Cherry units (mine are labeled KWJA0017).  Another difference is that the actuator on the microswitch is set further away from the button so there's more "take up" before you actually engage the switch.  The difference is minimal, but it's there.  Also, the switches are so light that it's difficult to tell when the transition from take up to actuation occurs.

What this means when compared to Ultimarc buttons, I don't know.  Hope it helps.

By the way, whether you solder or crimp, get a ratcheting wire stripper. 

[brad808]

+1 for solder. The better overall way to connect a wire to a micro switch in my opinion.

Sent from my Desire HD

[nakeworks]

Haha seems like most people here were advocating crimp on quick disconnects and one guy advocated soldering, so you picked soldering...      No offense to anyone intended, like I said it's really up to you, but I just though that was funny...

I don't know where you got that from "Ok, I'm set on soldering vs QD."  For the record, I think I will just stick with QD since I have a ton of those around.

[Mysterioii]

My bad, I interpreted your comment as meaning "I'm dead set on soldering now, as opposed to QD", ie. you had picked soldering as the way to go.  I guess you were just saying "I've got enough info and will mull it over, thanks...."

[nakeworks]

 

Nailed it

[PL1]

Can I get some ideas on switches?  Has anyone used the "Versa-Micro User-Adjustable Arcade Switch from Groovy Game Gear.  Sounds perfect but haven't heard much from anyone about it.   

As part of my research before placing a bulk order, I ordered one of each of GGG's microswitches: Standard Soft Touch, Premium Groovy-Micro Soft-Touch, Versa-Micro, and Micro-Leaf

I set up a test panel with all 4 side by side to test them with GGG's Arcade Prime buttons.  They were all great but I didn't notice any improvement over the Standard Soft Touch, but then I'm not a microswitch and button technique connoisseur.  The price difference sealed the deal for me. YMMV.

Your best bet is probably to set up your own test panel and try all of them. Wire the switches in parallel and play a 1 button game like Galaga w. fast shoot hack. (galagamf)


Scott

[lilshawn]

The biggest issue for me is that if I need 24 QDs I will always have 22 in stock.  Always.

guess i'd solder 1 switch then. 


Given the choice i'd crimp...but I fix arcade machines out in the field so being able to quickly change a switch is a plus.

sadly 90% of the switches out there are soldered. so it's moot for me.

[ChadTower]

sadly 90% of the switches out there are soldered. so it's moot for me.

How does that stop you from clipping the wire, crimping on a QD, filing the extra solder off the tab, and slipping the QD on?

[Mysterioii]

Could be an issue if there wasn't much slack in the wires since by cutting it off you're shortening it a bit, but it wouldn't take MUCH slack so I wouldn't expect it to be a problem.  Would just be a hassle though, another hoop to jump through.  And maybe the owner of whatever machine you're field repairing would expect you to be consistent with what was already on there.

I wouldn't have thought of filing off the solder, I'd have used an iron and a solder sucker, but if you didn't have an iron handy then yeah that's a fair compromise.

[BadMouth]

Not quite silent, but probably as good as it gets without going to leaf switches

http://groovygamegear.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=92&products_id=346
or
http://www.paradisearcadeshop.com/en/microswitches/3-20-gram-micro.html

You'll still have the button plunger against the housing sound if you slam them.

I have the GGG ones.
They are a little narrower than cherry switches.  
Had to put a shim beside them when using them in a Sanwa JLF joystick.
The width doesn't make much difference for buttons.

The only thing I have to add to solder vs QD is not to use a crappy $5 crimper/wire stripper if you go with QDs.
Pick up a cheap ratcheting one from harbor freight or elsewhere.

[nakeworks]

Thanks for the tip on the ratcheting crimper. 

PL1:  I think it was you who made a thread about your comparison that I read thru but when I talked to GGG I was told that I could only get premium Soft-touch by ordering buttons.  I don't need buttons.  Was there less click with the micro-leaf?

[ChadTower]

The only thing I have to add to solder vs QD is not to use a crappy $5 crimper/wire stripper if you go with QDs.
Pick up a cheap ratcheting one from harbor freight or elsewhere.

 


These two statements do not compute.  Cannot resolve "Do not buy crappy $5 tool" and "pick up a cheap tool from Harbor Freight".

[BadMouth]

These two statements do not compute.  Cannot resolve "Do not buy crappy $5 tool" and "pick up a cheap tool from Harbor Freight".

Use the $13 racheting crimper

http://www.harborfreight.com/ratcheting-crimping-tool-97420.html


Instead of the $3.50 Stripper/Crimper

http://www.harborfreight.com/8-inch-four-way-crimping-tool-92410.html

You guys have tools that cost more than $15?!  

EDIT: And I didn't say not to buy the $5 tool, I just said not to use it for crimping.  
It works fine for stripping.  Oddly enough it does a decent job of cutting stove bolts also.

[ChadTower]

I've used that ratcheting crimper.  It's not a $13 tool when you have to buy three of them to get the job done.   

[Vigo]

I always find it interesting the point of view that varies on Harbor Freight. If you talk to a fan, HF is for Budget tools, you talk a non-fan, it is a store filled with worthless piles of crap. I like to think I am good enough at knowing which tools are worth getting and which to pass on. I have never had a HF tool break on me, or even one under-perform. I guess I instinctually know what to stay away from.

Thanks for the tip on the ratcheting crimper. 

PL1:  I think it was you who made a thread about your comparison that I read thru but when I talked to GGG I was told that I could only get premium Soft-touch by ordering buttons.  I don't need buttons.  Was there less click with the micro-leaf?

I think you can buy the Paradise arcade 20 grams individually though. I think the Micro-leafs are click-free and smooth, but will change the feel of the button. You might like it better, or it might feel too "empty" of a press for you.

[Nephasth]

I've used that ratcheting crimper.  It's not a $13 tool when you have to buy three of them to get the job done.   

What job are you doing that you need 3? I've used mine for over 3,000 crimps for various projects. Never had a problem...

[ChadTower]

What job are you doing that you need 3? I've used mine for over 3,000 crimps for various projects. Never had a problem...

Harbor Freight hand tools fall apart if you sneeze at them.  I tried using them for a while but too many fell apart on first use.  The rest would last maybe ten uses.

[Nephasth]

Well, you know what they say... you've got to be 10% smarter than what you're working with...

[BadMouth]

I've had mixed results from HF tools.  In the couple cases that I wasn't happy, the reviews were dead-on.  I absolutely hate the $20 laminate trimmer, but then again I was trying to use it as a router.  The $2 bar clamps with plastic ends didn't last long.

 I've been blown away by the titanium nitride coated drill bits.  They cut faster and last longer than the Porter Cable and Dewalt drill bits that cost a lot more.  If you buy the cheap high carbon steel ones, you get what you pay for.

Like Vigo said, you have to know what you're buying.

What has always cracked me up about harbor freight is that everything is made in China specifically for them, but they go to great lengths to give all the products american sounding names.  (Pittsburgh Steel hand tools, American General air tools, Chicago Electric power tools).

[Vigo]

What has always cracked me up about harbor freight is that everything is made in China specifically for them, but they go to great lengths to give all the products american sounding names.  (Pittsburgh Steel hand tools, American General air tools, Chicago Electric power tools).

  I never thought about that one before.

[PL1]

I think the Micro-leafs are click-free and smooth, but will change the feel of the button. You might like it better, or it might feel too "empty" of a press for you.

Well said, Vigo.   

PL1:  I think it was you who made a thread about your comparison that I read thru but when I talked to GGG I was told that I could only get premium Soft-touch by ordering buttons.  I don't need buttons.  Was there less click with the micro-leaf?

If you want to test drive a Premium Soft Touch switch, just order one with an Arcade Prime/Spectralite/Chromalite button along with the other switches you want to compare.

If you like the Premiums and Randy won't work a deal with you to sell them separately, just order them with the Arcade Primes or Spectralites/Chromalites that you can use as admin buttons for this and later builds.

NOTE: Micro Leafs use .110 QDs that point "down"-- could be a concern in a shallow enclosure.

The Premium Soft Touch definitely has more click than the Micro Leaf.

Is the "click" your main concern or the "feel"?

If the click is what you dislike and none of the options above work for you, you might look into the Rollie Leaf Switches for pushbuttons, or look into getting real leaf switches.

In the constant argument over, "Which switch/button/joystick/spinner/trackball is best?" The answer is always filtered through the perceptions and preferences of the eye of the beholder, making "The one you like best." the correct answer.  If you want to be sure, run a comparison and post your results.  Doing this with buttons or switches won't break the bank.


Scott

[nakeworks]

If you want to test drive a Premium Soft Touch switch, just order one with an Arcade Prime/Spectralite/Chromalite button along with the other switches you want to compare.

If you like the Premiums and Randy won't work a deal with you to sell them separately, just order them with the Arcade Primes or Spectralites/Chromalites that you can use as admin buttons for this and later builds.

NOTE: Micro Leafs use .110 QDs that point "down"-- could be a concern in a shallow enclosure.

The Premium Soft Touch definitely has more click than the Micro Leaf.

Is the "click" your main concern or the "feel"?

If the click is what you dislike and none of the options above work for you, you might look into the Rollie Leaf Switches for pushbuttons, or look into getting real leaf switches.

In the constant argument over, "Which switch/button/joystick/spinner/trackball is best?" The answer is always filtered through the perceptions and preferences of the eye of the beholder, making "The one you like best." the correct answer.  If you want to be sure, run a comparison and post your results.  Doing this with buttons or switches won't break the bank.


Scott

Love the details guys, thanks.  While the "click" is a major annoyance, my main concern is how hard it is to depress the plunger.  I'm going to do like you said and order several types to decide what I like the best. 

On a side note, does anyone use the right-angle quick disconnects?  Usually I just use the straight ones but after seeing these at my local electronic store I'm intrigued.  Also, any feelings/opinions on insulated vs non-insulated QDs?

[TopJimmyCooks]

Hey Nake, In your line of work you've obviously got the dexterity for soldering.  Don't be afraid to go for it.  I learned with a huge weller soldering gun when I was a kid and have honed my technique lately by watching youtube instruction videos.  You'll be lifting traces on boards in no time.

I use qd's when the equipment has spade lugs to receive them.  You don't need fully insulated QD's for arcade switches, the terminals are far enough apart that it's not an issue.  I use insulated and non according to the situation. 

I have several different types of microswitch buttons, and I really like my Microleafs from GGG.  +1 for them.  light plunge resistance and basically silent. 

[nakeworks]

Hey Nake, In your line of work you've obviously got the dexterity for soldering.  Don't be afraid to go for it.  I learned with a huge weller soldering gun when I was a kid and have honed my technique lately by watching youtube instruction videos.  You'll be lifting traces on boards in no time.

I use qd's when the equipment has spade lugs to receive them.  You don't need fully insulated QD's for arcade switches, the terminals are far enough apart that it's not an issue.  I use insulated and non according to the situation. 

I have several different types of microswitch buttons, and I really like my Microleafs from GGG.  +1 for them.  light plunge resistance and basically silent. 

Hey David.  I was wondering where you were hiding.  I probably don't need to tell you that skill levels for doctors/surgeons vary wildly.  That's not to say that my skills are lacking, just not much experience using the soldering iron on my patients.   Yet

I am ordering several types, the microleafs included. 

[CoryBee]

 


[/quote]

just not much experience using the soldering iron on my patients.   Yet

I am ordering several types, the microleafs included. 
[/quote]

I don't have much input on the types of micro switches out there, I have only purchase two types of buttons. But I would weigh heavy on soldering over QD, not for reliability but for pure enjoyment. I have been doing electronics for several years and I love soldering, something about the flowing metal and making things with my hands is quite relaxing. I have created some pretty useless things just to make an excuse to solder away. Not too long ago I put together an mp3 player, amp, and some reed switches on the volume buttons to add music to the bathroom......yea



Anyways, I like to thread the wire through the little holes on the switches and twist then solder. I do this for all my arcade buttons.

[jasonbar]

Quick disconnects for all buttons & sticks on my cab!)

(Though I might be arriving too late to the party to matter...)