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Author Topic: Sound system for a MAME cabinet  (Read 29445 times)

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TJCOMBO

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Sound system for a MAME cabinet
« on: June 26, 2012, 11:44:49 am »
I didn't see much info on sound in the FAQ, so I thought I would post a question here.

Any suggestions on a sound system for MAME if you are using a PC to power it?  I have a Midway fighter cabinet and the speakers that are installed are 8ohm.  I would like to use those speakers instead of the clunky PC speakers to give it more of an authentic arcade feel.

I would like to go the distance and get high quality sound, but I don't want to buy something that's overkill and not practical for a MAME cabinet. 

MaxVolume

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Re: Sound system for a MAME cabinet
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2012, 04:23:26 pm »

Going with the speakers that are already in the cabinet (or buying replacements from HAPP) is definitely the option I would go with.  A lot of people put complete 2.1 PC speaker systems in their cabs, subwoofer and all.  I get that you get better sound, especially for music, but I think that's not only overkill, it makes it way too obvious that there's a PC in the cabinet.

HAPP sells a "kisok" amplifier that should work well with the original speakers or any equivalents you'd buy from them, but I'm not 100% sure if it's stereo or not.

selfie

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Re: Sound system for a MAME cabinet
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2012, 06:02:18 pm »
I built 3way ported speaker boxes into the body of my cab

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=120114.0

They are powered by a cheapo 12v auto amplifier and sound pretty good

TJCOMBO

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Re: Sound system for a MAME cabinet
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2012, 12:25:37 pm »
I think the HAPP kiosk is way too expensive.

Essentially all I need is the sound card and amp from the sound system I would buy.  I don't know much about amplifiers.  All I know is that the speakers in the cabinet are 8ohm and 25 watt . They are wired in parallel.

Any suggestions on what to buy?

MaxVolume

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Re: Sound system for a MAME cabinet
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2012, 12:54:24 pm »
I think the HAPP kiosk is way too expensive.

Essentially all I need is the sound card and amp from the sound system I would buy.  I don't know much about amplifiers.  All I know is that the speakers in the cabinet are 8ohm and 25 watt . They are wired in parallel.

Any suggestions on what to buy?

What? http://na.suzohapp.com/amusement/jukebox/495140100.htm  ???

You should probably first find out what kind of amplifier you can get for $40-$50, then maybe the HAPP kiosk amp won't seem so overpriced.  Underpowered, maybe, but if you're just talking about game sounds and close-field music, why would you need more than that?  Any standard amp that drives a home stereo system is going to blow you away like the dude in the Maxell ads if you're standing right in front of the speakers.  I guess it all depends on your definition of "overkill".

TJCOMBO

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Re: Sound system for a MAME cabinet
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2012, 03:41:06 pm »
Hmm. The one I pulled up was something near $100.  Sorry for the confusion. I was thinking of what I could buy at a local computer store and just take the speakers out, wire them to my existing speakers and just use the amp/sound card.

drventure

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Re: Sound system for a MAME cabinet
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2012, 03:47:04 pm »
Just pick up an 2.1 system and call it done. Most likely you'll end up wanting to play a few pc games on there, maybe run some jukebox software, etc. Having a decent set of PC speakers won't disappoint.

I picked up a 2.1 Altec Lansing setup, decased the speakers (but left the sub intact) and mounted them in my cab.  They certainly won't blow the windows out of my house, but they sound fantastic, for games AND for music.

In the end, if you don't already have a speaker and amp to allow you to hook it up to your PC, you'll likely find a 2.1 setup cheaper than you would piecing the parts together, and it'll sound way better to boot.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2012, 03:49:32 pm by drventure »

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Re: Sound system for a MAME cabinet
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2012, 07:10:24 pm »
Quote
Just pick up an 2.1 system and call it done. Most likely you'll end up wanting to play a few pc games on there, maybe run some jukebox software, etc. Having a decent set of PC speakers won't disappoint.

I picked up a 2.1 Altec Lansing setup, decased the speakers (but left the sub intact) and mounted them in my cab.  They certainly won't blow the windows out of my house, but they sound fantastic, for games AND for music.

In the end, if you don't already have a speaker and amp to allow you to hook it up to your PC, you'll likely find a 2.1 setup cheaper than you would piecing the parts together, and it'll sound way better to boot.

Sound advice (no pun intended)

MaxVolume

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Re: Sound system for a MAME cabinet
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2012, 01:53:04 pm »
Hmm. The one I pulled up was something near $100.  Sorry for the confusion. I was thinking of what I could buy at a local computer store and just take the speakers out, wire them to my existing speakers and just use the amp/sound card.

Yeah, I think you saw this:

http://na.suzohapp.com/amusement/jukebox/495140200k.htm

I guess you might need all that stuff, so yeah I suppose it's a bit much when you consider the AC adapter, input cable and harness, but since you might be able to get the input cable (just a 1/8" to 1/8" patch cord) and the adapter (12V, 2A, just need to make sure the barrel is the right size and polarity) elsewhere, you could probably get away with buying the speaker wires separately.  In fact, if you can find the connector locally you could probably wire up the speakers yourself, too.

Here's all the "extras" you can buy separately if you don't need them all:

http://na.suzohapp.com/amusement/jukebox/80115300.htm


MaxVolume

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Re: Sound system for a MAME cabinet
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2012, 02:06:23 pm »

I can't say I'm really on board with the whole "buy a PC speaker system" advice, but feel free to do that if you prefer.  As for going the extra step and cracking open the speakers to wire up the leads to the ones in the cabinet, that might give you more authentic sound, but the amplifiers in PC setups are very specifically designed for the included speakers, so results may vary if you do that.

What about something like this?  http://www.amazon.com/Pyle-PCA1-30-Watt-Stereo-Amplifier/dp/B0012KZNP4

I just ordered one of these myself for FLYNN'S... found it on another site a couple years ago when my cocktail project was nearly finished and I was doing some planning for this one, but it was around $50 so the HAPP kiosk amp seemed like a better choice.  Just found it on Amazon for just over half that, so that made the decision for me.  Bear in mind that they have amps that go up to 200 watts for about the same price, so as long as your speakers can handle that (and your cabinet has adequate ventilation to deal with the heat a higher-power amp might generate), just do a search for "Pyle Pro" before you make a final decision.


MaxVolume

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Re: Sound system for a MAME cabinet
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2012, 02:16:53 pm »

By the way, if you decide to go the 2.1 route, you might want to search for "subwoofer hard drive" here in the forum, since there's at least one thread about problems that the vibration of a subwoofer can cause if you have a mechanical hard drive.

MaxVolume

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Re: Sound system for a MAME cabinet
« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2012, 02:28:56 pm »

...also keep in mind that the 30W rating is 15x2 into 4 ohms.  If your speakers are 8 ohm, cut that in half to around 8 watts per channel, which is all most factory-installed arcade cabinet speakers can handle anyway.

Rando

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Re: Sound system for a MAME cabinet
« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2012, 03:37:42 pm »
In the end, if you don't already have a speaker and amp to allow you to hook it up to your PC, you'll likely find a 2.1 setup cheaper than you would piecing the parts together, and it'll sound way better to boot.
And if you want a volume control you don't have to build many come with a volume knob on a wire that you can mount on your CP or side of your Cab and it doesn't look too out of place.  Mine is on my CP, lights up a bit, and actually looks like a Spinner.  Doesn't perform as my Spinner, just looks like one. :P

(http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0027VT6V4/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00)
Rando - My build thread: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=107741.msg1142843#msg1142843 (work slowed but still progressing!

MaxVolume

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Re: Sound system for a MAME cabinet
« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2012, 11:04:04 pm »
In the end, if you don't already have a speaker and amp to allow you to hook it up to your PC, you'll likely find a 2.1 setup cheaper than you would piecing the parts together, and it'll sound way better to boot.
And if you want a volume control you don't have to build many come with a volume knob on a wire that you can mount on your CP or side of your Cab and it doesn't look too out of place.  Mine is on my CP, lights up a bit, and actually looks like a Spinner.  Doesn't perform as my Spinner, just looks like one. :P

(http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0027VT6V4/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00)

Yes, this is one advantage, but pretty much the only point in the favor of a standard PC speaker system.  The subwoofer/hard drive thing is a huge point against, and there are so many other ways to control the volume.  You can use an inline volume control between the computer and speakers, or you can even assign buttons or an analog control to adjust either MAME volume or the overall Windows volume.

TJCOMBO

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Re: Sound system for a MAME cabinet
« Reply #14 on: July 02, 2012, 11:18:06 am »
I appreciate all your responses.  I'll be more specific.

These are the two speakers I have in my cabinet:

Speaker 6" - 8 ohms 25 watts
#5555-13961-00
This speaker offers impedence of 8 ohm, a 6 oz. magnet, .75" voice coil, & a maximum power of 40 watts. Paper cone Construction. 6.25" diameter. REPLACES 5555-12015-00.

I read online about a PC Speaker hack from a guy at Oscar controls, where you can take the guts out of PC speakers and just use the amp and soundcard.  It seemed to work there.  Did you say that the amps in the PC speakers are very specific to the speakers they need to power?  Are there more components that go into an amp that I am unaware of?  If I can't use a PC speaker amp to power the speakers in my cabinet, I take it the Pyle Amplifier will still work?  This should solve my original question.  Thanks!

TJCOMBO

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Re: Sound system for a MAME cabinet
« Reply #15 on: July 10, 2012, 12:20:44 pm »
MaxVolume. I went with your suggestion and bought the small amp on Ebay.  It comes in today.  I'll have to wire it up and see what happens.  I am with you: I don't see how the satellites beat the originals, but then again, I have never really done a side by side comparison - just going with what I imagine. 

I think what I had in mind for my original question was the issue of sound authenticity, not performance per se. Are pc speakers and original 8ohm arcade cabinet speakers near perfect substitutes?  Not trying to split hairs, but I notice those things light as day.  It may not be the difference between a Coke and a Coke with Splenda, but a few extra bucks and wiring for those arcade sounds I recall as a little punk are worth it for me.  We all want our monitors to refresh at the correct rate per game, but that may be a different animal. I was just afraid of using the PC speakers and getting a tinny, muffled or imperfect substitute.

drventure

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Re: Sound system for a MAME cabinet
« Reply #16 on: July 10, 2012, 01:46:10 pm »
I was just afraid of using the PC speakers and getting a tinny, muffled or imperfect substitute.

Oh, wow. I thought that's what you were looking for, was the tinny, muffled sound of a typical arcade cab speaker (those things were never very good, heck, a lot of the older games were mono, even. And remember that what you heard back in the day was typically a cacophony of cabinets all playing at pretty high volumes in a closed in space. Separate out a single cabinet, and really listen, and they never really sounded particularly good, at least not to me.

Any decent powered 2.1 PC speaker system should pretty much blow the doors off older cabinet speakers. I can't speak for the newer cabinets, though.

MaxVolume

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Re: Sound system for a MAME cabinet
« Reply #17 on: July 18, 2012, 07:34:20 pm »
Well, I'm kind of going against my own advice here.  The speakers were the last item I needed to order for FLYNN'S, but I noticed that the 4" shielded speakers from HAPP I had intended to use were out of stock and wouldn't be available until 7/31.  Being the impatient sort that I am, I started to look around for other suppliers.  I deal a lot with an eBay seller who sells the same stuff as HAPP at much lower prices, but the ones they had didn't seem like the same model.

To cut a long story short, what I'm ending up with is a pair of PYLE car speakers.  It still remains to be seen whether I'll hate them, return them, and still order from HAPP, but it seemed worth a shot.  On the up side, my amp is made by PYLE so there's some continuity there, they're 4 ohm so I'll get the rated power output of 15W per channel rather than getting roughly half that with the 8-ohm HAPP speakers, and they have a pretty blue LED in the tweeter.  Oh... yeah, they have a tweeter.  The only reason I let myself do this is because there will also be jukebox functionality, so it makes sense to use something that might do well with music.  Also, the monitor is SVGA, so it might seem a little weird getting a nice clear picture, but old-school muffled audio.  I do worry that the games aren't gonna sound authentic, or even "right" at all, so it's something I'm hesitant about and nowhere near certain I'm gonna stick with.

Obviously the biggest potential issue is glare/light spill from the LEDs.  There's already the marquee just above the speakers, but when actually focusing on the screen my eye line is low enough so it's out of my field of vision.  The speakers will have the stock grills from the cabinet over them, and it seems like they'd let very little light through (just solid metal with slits rather than a mesh-type that would be virtually transparent).  Worst case scenario is that I've got reflections in my monitor plexi, but I'm just a sucker for cool blue LEDs, especially given the TRON theme of my cabinet.  I already gave in and ended up with a laptop cooler that has blue LEDs in the fans for the rear vent, so that coupled with the blue illuminated trackball does lend some sort of continuity to the whole design.  In most places I've avoided illumination because it tends to highlight imperfections (and there are a boatload of those in this project), but when you think TRON, you think blue glowy stuff, right?

Maybe this is my way of compensating for the fact that I never got to do my Missile-Command-cabinet-based digital jukebox project.  I really regret not being able to put all kinds of crazy lights on this thing like a color organ, "endless tunnel" effects like the Seeburg Entertainer has, etc.  I do still plan to do all that in some other project, but I have to accept that using a full-size arcade cabinet, even a "lowboy" like Missile Command, is overkill for something that just plays music.  The PYLE speakers are only rated to go down to 110Hz, so I also worry about bass response.  No idea what kind of response curve the HAPP speakers have, and the top part of the cabinet should serve as a nice ported enclosure for them, so maybe the bass won't be that bad.  I do have an old 12" powered subwoofer from my home theater system that hasn't been used in years, so maybe I could build my "crazy light show" project around that.  It'll be a safe distance away from the computer in the cabinet, so that'll prevent hard drive issues.

Well, just kind of thinking out loud here... if anyone has ideas or advice on illuminated speakers (saw those on "The Blue Pill", although I'm not sure they're the same ones I'm getting), feel free to chime in.

UPDATE:  Yup, the ones used on "The Blue Pill" are the same exact ones I ordered.  They haven't shipped yet, so that's a bad sign.  If they haven't shipped by the time HAPP restocks the 4" shielded ones I wanted originally, I'm cancelling my order and going with HAPP.  Luckily, the IBM ThinkCentre I'm using as the brain of this project has like a 2" internal speaker that is not only for POST beeps, but all audio is played through it when there's no external speakers plugged in.  Even at only 50% volume, it's loud enough just sitting at the bottom of the cabinet so that I barely notice there aren't any other speakers.  The sound is in mono and a bit distant-sounding, but it's perfectly acceptable for gameplay until I can get my speaker issues worked out.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2012, 04:13:15 pm by MaxVolume »

TJCOMBO

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Re: Sound system for a MAME cabinet
« Reply #18 on: July 20, 2012, 01:12:51 pm »
The PYLE amp worked out very well for me and took no time at all to wire up the leads. Thanks. The speakers the cabinet are standard 8ohms wired in parallel, so that should mean a 4ohm speaker load.  There is no shortage of volume, and I don't notice any/much quality loss with them loud.  The plus side is that I have the original speakers that fit flush with the cabinet without having to buy new ones.  And, if I always wanted to upgrade just the speakers, I could.

Are you shielding your speakers?  I suppose those upgraded speakers would have a wider range of frequencies and lower total harmonic distortion. 

MaxVolume

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Re: Sound system for a MAME cabinet
« Reply #19 on: July 20, 2012, 01:56:54 pm »

The speakers I wanted to use are shielded, but the PYLEs just have a rubber covering on the magnet, which I assume does nothing.  They aren't in close proximity to the monitor, so it shouldn't present a problem.

As for the wiring, I'm not sure you have a 4-ohm load there.  Wiring in "series" or "parallel" only refers to multiple speakers on the same channel.  Since you only have one speaker on each channel, it wouldn't be considered series or parallel so you still have an 8-ohm load.  As long as you're getting the performance you expected, you're fine.

TJCOMBO

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Re: Sound system for a MAME cabinet
« Reply #20 on: July 23, 2012, 09:22:47 am »
The JAMMA cabinet that I have was wired in mono, one channel, so I wired them up into one speaker side on the amp (right or left, doesn't matter.)  I think that is parallel.  I know very few arcade cabinets do stereo (Neo-Geo is one of them).  From what I have always heard, you can't realize the benefits of stereo unless you are 10+ft away (but what do I know.) Therefore, I am not sure if it matters if I keep the speakers in mono or not.

Regards to upgrading speakers, what speakers would be ideal to install here?  Any spec or brand recommendations? 

Best of luck with the new speakers.

MaxVolume

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Re: Sound system for a MAME cabinet
« Reply #21 on: July 23, 2012, 12:21:04 pm »
The JAMMA cabinet that I have was wired in mono, one channel, so I wired them up into one speaker side on the amp (right or left, doesn't matter.)  I think that is parallel.  I know very few arcade cabinets do stereo (Neo-Geo is one of them).  From what I have always heard, you can't realize the benefits of stereo unless you are 10+ft away (but what do I know.) Therefore, I am not sure if it matters if I keep the speakers in mono or not.

Regards to upgrading speakers, what speakers would be ideal to install here?  Any spec or brand recommendations? 

Best of luck with the new speakers.

I see.  I don't really agree with what you have heard about stereo.  If that were true, why would we have stereo headphones?  Stereo is actually BEST appreciated close up.  I think you'll find that it's preferable to wire your speakers in stereo and leave them at 4 ohms.  My understanding was that a lot of games past the mid-'80s were stereo, and whether it's placement of sound effects or the music, stereo is going to sound much better.  Mono games will sound fine through dual speakers as long as they're wired in phase (+ to + and - to -).  In the old days, we called that binaural.  The PYLE amp is rated for a 4-ohm load, and at 15W per channel, you're going to need every watt.  Strangling it down to around 8W with an 8-ohm load is just a waste.  I would definitely make sure you have easy access to a volume control on your cabinet, since the high efficiency of 4-ohm speakers will probably make the difference in loudness between "loud" and "soft" games seem greater.  Overall, that's a GOOD thing, by the way.

As for replacing the speakers, my policy has always been that exact replacement parts or HAPP equivalents are best if authentic arcade sound is more important to you than high fidelity.  I'm afraid I'll find that out the hard way when my PYLE car speakers arrive, but we'll see.

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Re: Sound system for a MAME cabinet
« Reply #22 on: August 15, 2012, 09:59:16 am »
Thanks for the good advice as usual. The speaker wire seems really thin - I think it is 18 gauge.  I have no problem with the speakers, so I am assuming this is OK?

Did you get your speakers installed?  Are you happy with the sound?

MaxVolume

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Re: Sound system for a MAME cabinet
« Reply #23 on: August 15, 2012, 12:56:59 pm »
Thanks for the good advice as usual. The speaker wire seems really thin - I think it is 18 gauge.  I have no problem with the speakers, so I am assuming this is OK?

Did you get your speakers installed?  Are you happy with the sound?

I don't think the speaker wire is a problem at all, especially with only a 15W amp.  The wires that came with my speakers are really thin, too.  I'm not necessarily an expert, but the only time I'd really recommend heavier speaker wire is in a home stereo setup where you've got an amp rated at something like 200W or more.  Even then it probably doesn't make as much difference as some (mostly companies who sell speaker wire) might claim.

As for the speakers, I'm THRILLED!  :droid  They almost have too much bass!  I guess that's probably due to sound reflection inside the top of the cabinet and also within the monitor area, since they're pretty much pointed right down at the monitor.  I can definitely tell that they're a bit TOO clear in some games, but they really sound good.  My only complaint is that the LEDs don't light up, but I'm sure that's just because of the wimpy amp, similar to what someone else who uses those same speakers has posted.  I'm thinking of trying to power them with 5V from a USB connector, but I'm not sure if that'll be enough.  I would have to cut the wires that I think go to the LEDs, since I don't want any DC current going to the voice coil.  I want to make sure those wires don't feed the tweeters as well, and I might just be better off leaving well enough alone.  I plan to disconnect one of the speakers and hold a 9V battery up to those wires to see if the LEDs would reflect off of the monitor plexi, and if they do I'll leave them dark.  It would be nice to have blue light coming out of the speaker grilles just like the vent cover in the back (and of course the trackball), but it's not worth losing the tweeters if those wires aren't just for the LEDs.

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Re: Sound system for a MAME cabinet
« Reply #24 on: August 23, 2012, 12:41:51 pm »
Glad to hear that!  Would you recommend these speakers to go along with that amp:

 http://www.pyleaudio.com/sku/PLRL52/525-160-Watt-Two-Way-Speakers

Mine are okay for their purpose, but an upgrade does sound tempting to see what it has to offer.

MaxVolume

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Re: Sound system for a MAME cabinet
« Reply #25 on: August 23, 2012, 03:53:56 pm »
Glad to hear that!  Would you recommend these speakers to go along with that amp:

 http://www.pyleaudio.com/sku/PLRL52/525-160-Watt-Two-Way-Speakers

Mine are okay for their purpose, but an upgrade does sound tempting to see what it has to offer.

Yeah, they'd be fine... if you couldn't find any pretty blue ones that light up. ;)

Actually, I hate to say this, but you might have wanted to get one of the higher-wattage PYLE amps that Amazon had for around the same price.  Of course those would have probably generated more heat, so I guess inside a cab what you have is best.  Since it's a near-field situation, you don't need to crank 'em anyway.  I suppose distortion might be a problem if they're underpowered, but again it doesn't take much to beat the stock speakers... just like in a car.  My 4" ones were also rated at 160W max, so you should get about the same results unless the larger cone has anything to do with it.