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Author Topic: A hidden non-electric "keyless" catch or an alternative hinge.  (Read 3816 times)

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SavannahLion

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Just as the title describes. Any ideas for a substitute standard barrel lock like the ones sold by GGG, Ultimarc and dozens of other sellers?

So a latch (for a hinged partial Control Panel) that:
  • Does not use a key
  • Does not use electricity (hence no solenoid  ;D )
  • Can resist a strong downward force from a two and four year old. So those nice magnet catches for cabinets are out.  :banghead:

The intent here is to hide the hideous piano hinge that I just can't seem to hide satisfactorily. I figure if I flip hinge mount the towards the player (rather than opposite of the player), the hinge will be far less noticeable since the hinge is now underneath and behind an overhang. However, that necessitates some sort of catch to hold the panel in place and I did find several candidates (including the barrel lock) however, the key for the barrel lock is butt ugly.

I'm open to the idea of using a different hinge but... isn't there always a butt here? The mounting is a little screwy and my space is sorely limited. For instance, the classic (are they really classic? who cares...) Concealed "Euro" hinges might be doable but I really hate adjusting these damn things and I would have to finesse the cab design a bit to accommodate them.

I've got a couple of ideas here and there but I'd like to fish for more ideas. Sometimes the grognards here know of bits and pieces I would have never thought of otherwise.

-rich-

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Re: A hidden non-electric "keyless" catch or an alternative hinge.
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2012, 07:12:13 am »
Is it a strict ban on power? What about a fail secure electric bolt or hook lock? Something along these lines -> http://www.padde.com.au/en/site/paddecomau/Products/?groupId=292

rich

bkenobi

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Re: A hidden non-electric "keyless" catch or an alternative hinge.
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2012, 02:57:47 pm »
I don't know if it's what you are looking for, but I've seen magnetic "key" child locks for cabinets.  You hold the magnetic "key" in the right spot and the lock disengages such that the door can be easily opened.  I don't know how strong they are though.

www.google.com/search?q=magnetic+child+lock

SavannahLion

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Re: A hidden non-electric "keyless" catch or an alternative hinge.
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2012, 03:37:40 pm »
Is it a strict ban on power? What about a fail secure electric bolt or hook lock? Something along these lines -> http://www.padde.com.au/en/site/paddecomau/Products/?groupId=292

rich

It's not a strict ban, per se.
The problem stems from the fact that I'm packing nearly all the control circuitry behind this panel and if the control circuit barfs then getting access to it through the back will prove impossible from the way everything is intended to be assembled.

I don't know if it's what you are looking for, but I've seen magnetic "key" child locks for cabinets.  You hold the magnetic "key" in the right spot and the lock disengages such that the door can be easily opened.  I don't know how strong they are though.

www.google.com/search?q=magnetic+child+lock

I confess the thought crossed my mind just as I thought to check back here. Will be worth a looksee.

drventure

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Re: A hidden non-electric "keyless" catch or an alternative hinge.
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2012, 04:20:13 pm »
It might not quite be the look you're after, but something like a hood pin might work



If you put a bracket inside and put the pin through the back it'd be mostly invisible.

I have to admit though, i'm having a hard time visualizing the situation.... You wouldn't have a pic around somewhere?

MonMotha

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Re: A hidden non-electric "keyless" catch or an alternative hinge.
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2012, 04:23:49 pm »
Yup, I think what you want is a spring set, magnetically retracted "dead" bolt.  They make them for childproofing cabinets, amongst other things.  The biggest challenge I would see is that, in order to keep the magnet actuation reasonable, the springs are pretty weak.  They often can't even hold the bolt in place against gravity.  That may not be a problem in your case.  You'll also have to make sure it can't bind up, otherwise you'll have to be able to get to the back to open it.

Note that the spring weakness don't imply that the lock is weak.  Designed right, you'd have to shear a bar of metal to get it to break.  It just restricts the mounting orientation (and makes it susceptible to vibration, to some degree).
« Last Edit: June 13, 2012, 04:39:39 pm by MonMotha »

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Re: A hidden non-electric "keyless" catch or an alternative hinge.
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2012, 04:49:49 pm »
If you have a coin door located  close enough to where you can reach up you might be able to mount several latches like this, this, or this on the underside of the CP.

You could also put several bolts that stick up through the CP and use a threaded knob that holds the cp closed.

The out-of-the-box answer may be getting some round aluminum stock, thread the end to accept the threaded knob and run it from the back of the cab through several supports and into the back side of the CP box. Spring load it to keep it normally closed.

+1 on pics being helpful. Include a shot through the coin door if available


Scott

drventure

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Re: A hidden non-electric "keyless" catch or an alternative hinge.
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2012, 04:50:45 pm »
There's also something like this (a latch for boats/rvs)

http://www.southco.com/product/class.aspx?cid=7622

SavannahLion

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Re: A hidden non-electric "keyless" catch or an alternative hinge.
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2012, 11:51:16 pm »
Thanks for the ideas, A couple I thought of, a few I hadn't. They're worth a looksee anyways.

It's a WIP. I created a SketchUp model and I'm using it as a template for my pieces. Took me hours to figure out how to print the SketchUp components at scale.  :dizzy:

I had planned to go down this week to some local shops downtown for the raw materials for the cab but I drained my entire cab budget on un-budgeted and necessary repairs. Apparently, vehicles require working batteries, to be registered, smogged and a whole host of nonsense details. Ain't that the  :censored:? There's always an excuse, isn't there? Enough of that, Here's the portion of the model that counts. I'm stuffing it with parts so everything that's irrelevant is hidden away in SketchUp. I had a brilliant epiphany today so there's gong to be some minor changes, but the basic principle is going to remain the same.

And yeah, there's no coin door in this one. I'm not sure if I want to add a coin mech on this one. My choices are kind of anemic on alternate coin slots. It's either a traditional and HUGE front loader, annoying top slot or  annoying angle.

About the only coin mech that seems remotely interesting is the 40-0023-00P Single Front Plate Assembly. It measures about 3.03"H x 9.26"W. My only gripe is it measures 4.47" from plate to rear which, according to my measurements, might cause problems. What I would really like is a mech where the coin is slipped in sideways, like the early Midway cabs that's as big as the mech I linked to above.

But enough of that nonsense now. Here are the requested pics.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2012, 11:56:23 pm by SavannahLion »

drventure

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Re: A hidden non-electric "keyless" catch or an alternative hinge.
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2012, 09:05:08 am »
So is the idea here that this is, like, a wall mount unit and that flip down part will have buttons and a stick on it?

Are those going to be buttons on sides of the flip down part?

If that will be the CP. I'm guessing you'll definitely want o use a piano hinge for strength.

It looks like your best bet will be a barrel lock of some sort mounted just above the flipdown part, with the catch swinging down to engage a latch.

http://www.thehardwarehut.com/cabinet_locks.php?start_no=1

hmmm, that'll mean the flip down part will have to either fit up slightly inside the top, or you'll have to have a latch sticking up from the surface of the cp slightly (which would be a bit ugh...)


SavannahLion

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Re: A hidden non-electric "keyless" catch or an alternative hinge.
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2012, 11:41:33 am »
Oh wow, I totally forgot about the button. Duh. Thanks for mentioning that. No koysticks though the first version did sport a pair. Not in this one.

Yes, it's a wall mount. And those are knobs. I assumed it would be obvious, but on second look from someone who hasn't stared at the model for a month, it isn't so obvious.

Those are Return To Center knobs. I figure just shy of 180 degrees of motion with my current iteration but if I can locate a pair of matching approximately 2:1 ratio gears with at least one with an 8mm bore, I can achieve 360 degree of motion albeit a bit unecessary. With different ratios I can achieve greater rotation.

Le Chuck

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Re: A hidden non-electric "keyless" catch or an alternative hinge.
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2012, 02:06:12 am »
http://www.handles4homes.co.uk/general-ironmongery/catches/fingertip-design-ftd815c-double-ball-roller-catch/

You can find really strong roller catches in different styles.  Double ball roller catches are pretty good if memory serves.  Easy enough to recess too.