DIY Xbox Controller Interface on a budget *UPDATED and with Video*

[degenatrons]

Links man links, I need to see what your talking about......I'm visual.

16 way ribbon cable with terminals.....graphics please.

16-way ribbon is pretty common,  as is 40-way ribbon (but you probably now this as IDE cable)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10pcs-IDC-Box-header-DC3-DC3-16P-16-pins-2-54mm-Pitch-/130598577525?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e68482575
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/IDC-Ribbon-Header-Box-IDC-16-Way-Box-Right-Angle-Low-Profile-PCB-15-pcs-/150837802005?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Supplies_ET&hash=item231ea23415
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Grey-Ribbon-Cable-Wire-16-Way-Per-Metre-/290663229506?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Supplies_ET&hash=item43ace0e842

Actually,  now i sober up a little.  I think that we will need more than 16-way.  We are going to need 14x2 = 28-way.
You can get other sizes.  30-way at http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10x-Double-Rows-2x15-Pin-FC-30-Connectors-PCB-IDC-Pin-Headers-/310404320211?pt=UK_Computing_Other_Computing_Networking&hash=item48458a0bd3

or we could just use IDE standard with 40-way.

so a connector is mounted to pcb and headers are added to wires.  These connectors look like this when mounted

[sharpfork]

use 16-way ribbon cable

Is this really that much cheeper than screw terminals?

[rablack97]

I think it may be, but I'm also thinking we are pre-determining wire lengths using the cable....

Plus you see how thin that stuff is, ever try stripping the wire?

After you dolder the headers, clamp the cable and wire to jstik, something will have broken at that point.

You can get 10 terminals for like 17.00, i'm gonna have to see how many terminals we use total on the new setup.

IMHO, i'd rather cut my own wrie lengths to my sticks and buttons, and use a larger gauge wire rather than the thin  cable.

[sharpfork]

IMHO, i'd rather cut my own wrie lengths to my sticks and buttons, and use a larger gauge wire rather than the thin  cable.

I agree.

[rablack97]

Yeah, doesn't look that much cleaner with the new matrix......Anybody come up with anything different?

[degenatrons]

IMHO, i'd rather cut my own wrie lengths to my sticks and buttons, and use a larger gauge wire rather than the thin  cable.

I agree.

Some good points here guys.  Screw terminals used with larger gauge wire and cut to length will make it neater and easier.
It is worth investigating all of the options though.

I previously bought a batch of 100 x 0.1" pitch 12 way terminals from ebay at http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/400263587239?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
total of $148 plus i paid $3 for the shipping.  I don't recommend the free shipping as it can take 2 months!  With $3 shipping it took 2 weeks.
This works out at $1.50 per 12 way terminal.
I use them on another MAME project - http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=120362.msg1277486#msg1277486

We have 14 buttons with 2 inputs per button = 28.
You can get 4-way in the same style at http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10pcs-4-Poles-2-54mm-0-1-PCB-Universal-Screw-Terminal-Block-/130676048037?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e6ce640a5
to make up the extra 4.

Maybe it would be better to have one large bank of terminals with logical grouping so it is easier to wire up.  No reason for terminals to be ordered in the same sequence as the keyboard IC.
For e.g. there could be a trace running from pins C0 and R12 (up) to terminals that are next to each other - instead of on different sides of the IC.
This would make for a smaller and cleaner PCB.

[johnm]

If you're designing a board around this surely it would be better seeing if the smartjoy components could be removed and placed on the same board as the keyboard ic?

[rablack97]

Your are correct.

Degenetrons mentioned trying to get the code off the cypress chip on the frag and reflashing it to another chip, and rebuilding the entire board with his mod.  Costs and time kinda drove that idea into the water for him, so this is merely a side thing that i picked up as a just to see if it could be done thing.

Really the only benefit to this board is to get cleaner terminal connections to the j-stik and buttons.  Degenetrons method is perfect as it is, as its super cheap and it works.  This piece is a oh cool nice to have but not needed addition.

I have attached a pic of the internals of the smartjoy, as you can see, there's a alot to remove, and you risk damaging the chips, and there are ton of tiny resistors all over the board.

This mod requires basic soldering, and uses bigger resistors

[degenatrons]

I have attached a pic of the internals of the smartjoy, as you can see, there's a alot to remove, and you risk damaging the chips, and there are ton of tiny resistors all over the board.

Rablack, the internals of your smartjoy look a little different to mine.  Can you plug it to your xbox, attach a keyboard,  and check the keymappings match those expected below.  I'm pretty sure they should just but I just wanted to do a sanity check.

left cursor key = dpad left
numpad 6 = dpad right
numpad 8 = dpad up
numpad 2 = dpad down
spacebar = A button
key B = B button
key X = X button
key Y = Y button
key L = reft trigger
tey R = right trigger
tab key = black button
capslock = white button
backspace = back button
enter (on main keyboard) = start button

[johnm]

That doesn't look like a smartjoy frag Degenatron has been modding, firstly there isn't a memory slot and secondly the board is different not just in colour but the number of components topside.

[rablack97]

That doesn't look like a smartjoy frag Degenatron has been modding, firstly there isn't a memory slot and secondly the board is different not just in colour but the number of components topside.

I'm looking into that now per Degenetrons post, there is a memory slot, i just pulled the black piece off the silver pins are in the center, hard to see.

I have attached a pic of the internals of the smartjoy, as you can see, there's a alot to remove, and you risk damaging the chips, and there are ton of tiny resistors all over the board.

Rablack, the internals of your smartjoy look a little different to mine.  Can you plug it to your xbox, attach a keyboard,  and check the keymappings match those expected below.  I'm pretty sure they should just but I just wanted to do a sanity check.

left cursor key = dpad left
numpad 6 = dpad right
numpad 8 = dpad up
numpad 2 = dpad down
spacebar = A button
key B = B button
key X = X button
key Y = Y button
key L = reft trigger
tey R = right trigger
tab key = black button
capslock = white button
backspace = back button
enter (on main keyboard) = start button

Only difference i can see, is that my d-pads are all mapped to the cursor keys and not the num pads.

Although have hit a snag, i plugged up 3 different keyboards, and all are non responsive on the smartjoy, the capslock is lit up but the num lock led is flashing.  I assume you meant use the test disk to test the mappings but I cant get the keyboard to do anything on the xbox.

I'm sure we are ordering form the same guy as he's the only one on ebay selling these things cheap and in bulk, i dont know why we have two different models.

[degenatrons]

It looks like there are two different versions of the original smartjoy frag,  plus some third party versions.  The functionality should be the same for them all.  It's only the default key mappings that we are concerned about - and these will hopefully be consistent.  
Rablack can you post a pic of your smartjoy case for reference?

[degenatrons]

Although have hit a snag, i plugged up 3 different keyboards, and all are non responsive on the smartjoy, the capslock is lit up but the num lock led is flashing.  I assume you meant use the test disk to test the mappings but I cant get the keyboard to do anything on the xbox.

I find for these to work reliably you will also need to plug a mouse - or spoof it.

[rablack97]

Yeah something is wrong, the model I have doesnt seem to recognize the keyboard.

I forgot all about the mouse part, i plugged one up and still nothing.  Are you using a ps/2 mouse or a usb mouse with an adaptor.  That may be the issue.

[johnm]

In rablack97's pcb picture it says at the bottom xboxfps adaptor 1.1, it could be a later version than the one degenatron modded.

[rablack97]

OK figured it out....

I went to the review at TomsHardware site.  Apparently this thing is sensitive in regards to the type of mouse that you use.  I don't have my 10ohm resistors yet.  So after reading i just plugged in my wireless adaptor for a wireless mouse and it worked fine.  It seems like this think doesn't like optical mice, or there are only certain ones that work.

The num lock was flashing due to compatibility, it was solid green when i plugged in the wireless adaptor.

So back to the testing....

As stated the only thing different is the d-pad keys, on the 1.1 version they are all on the cursor keys,  no num pad arrows used.

All other buttons on the layout are identical.

[degenatrons]

OK figured it out....

I went to the review at TomsHardware site.  Apparently this thing is sensitive in regards to the type of mouse that you use.  I don't have my 10ohm resistors yet.  So after reading i just plugged in my wireless adaptor for a wireless mouse and it worked fine.  It seems like this think doesn't like optical mice, or there are only certain ones that work.

The num lock was flashing due to compatibility, it was solid green when i plugged in the wireless adaptor.

So back to the testing....

As stated the only thing different is the d-pad keys, on the 1.1 version they are all on the cursor keys,  no num pad arrows used.

All other buttons on the layout are identical.

I tested my smartjoy with a bunch of mice.  It works with pretty much everything I tried (optical, wired, PS/2 and USB with PS/2 adapter).  Only mouse that did not work for me was a cheap miniature USB one - from a £1 store.

It is important that we get directions from numeric keypad working with this smartjoy.  Was the numeric keypad unresponsive?  Maybe it is the keyboard you are using.  I assume you tried turning off numlock?

I can't really investigate myself until I get this new batch of smartjoys.  Hopefully they will be same as yours rablack.  The build quality definitely looks better on your version.

[rablack97]

No worries man, I just followed the instructions to reassign the keys, so now they match yours......This will need to be added to any instructions based on the smartjoy version.

[degenatrons]

No worries man, I just followed the instructions to reassign the keys, so now they match yours......This will need to be added to any instructions based on the smartjoy version.

Instructions - wow.  You got a manual with yours too

I take it that you saved the keymapping change as a preset?  Was this saved against F1 to F8 key?  If so you mayl need to press that function key to recall the mapping.  Unless yours allows to save over the default?  Please can you trying unplugging smartjoy or resetting xbox to see if settings are retained?  Cheers.

[rablack97]

Yeah i got a manual, quick reference card.

Yep i unplugged and booted kept the F1 pre-set I saved.

So looks like we are ok....

If you notice, our vendor from Florida has shot up on the prices on these smartjoys by like 5 bucks.  I'm sure bulkwise he'd haggle though.  I'm gonna redo my PCB layout tonight to see if i can get the buttons and the stick terminals together....There's gonna be a crap load of traces though.

I checked the continuity on the 1st board and all the traces worked. I'm gonna wided my trace and make the holes on the pads smaller next go round to ensure a good connection.

[rablack97]

Ok,

Two versions of the board...

The cleaner version as far as the PCB goes will require you to cross wires to get to the correct terminals, which could make for a hot wiring mess.



The more complex version requires 2 sides of the board but the wiring layout is much cleaner and side by side.



I'm gonna etch both for the hell of it, wish me luck on that darn double sided pile of manure........

[sharpfork]

Ok,

Two versions of the board...
The cleaner version as far as the PCB goes will require you to cross wires to get to the correct terminals, which could make for a hot wiring mess...
The more complex version requires 2 sides of the board but the wiring layout is much cleaner and side by side.

Is V1 just a matter of having an odd wiring sequence or is there something more complex required?  Unless the double sided boards are super easy to make, I say just go with v1.

The one request I have is to make a single contact for hitting start + back so we could wire in an exit button.

[rablack97]

V1 will require you to follow degenetrons matrix for wiring.

V2 if successful will have the sequences next to one another so wiring is cleaner and easier, no matrix needed.

Ok,

Two versions of the board...
The cleaner version as far as the PCB goes will require you to cross wires to get to the correct terminals, which could make for a hot wiring mess...
The more complex version requires 2 sides of the board but the wiring layout is much cleaner and side by side.

The one request I have is to make a single contact for hitting start + back so we could wire in an exit button.

Forgot all about that, I mentioned that to Degenetron early on in the build, ill add the traces for that sequence...

[rablack97]

I've hit writers block...I can't figure out a workable way to get the start+back = exit function to work...

Its gonna take 4 IC pin to get it to work , 2 pins for start and 2 pins for back.....The logic is if you connect 2 pins you get a function....so really theres no way i can think of to create a start function and an exit function w/o connecting the pins before they get to the actual terminal for exit.  I'm thinking this would simulate the start button being held down and never released.

Any ideas?

[degenatrons]

I've hit writers block...I can't figure out a workable way to get the start+back = exit function to work...

Its gonna take 4 IC pin to get it to work , 2 pins for start and 2 pins for back.....The logic is if you connect 2 pins you get a function....so really theres no way i can think of to create a start function and an exit function w/o connecting the pins before they get to the actual terminal for exit.  I'm thinking this would simulate the start button being held down and never released.

Any ideas?

Hey rablack,  this should be quite simple...

If you take a look at my key matrix (below) you can see that "start" and "back" are on the same row (R10). 
You can connect R10 to one terminal.
You can connect columns C1 and C4 to another terminal.   This is safe because connecting columns only will not generate input.
If you bridge these 2 new terminals you will get start+back.

[degenatrons]

I think for my last suggestion to work properly we will need to add a diode to the circuit so that C1+C4 combination is not permanent.
If C1 and C4 are wired you will get "exit" when pressing "start" and "back" on their own.

I will see if I can think of another simpler way.

We do have another enter key (i.e. start) available.  This is C2+R14.  I will have a think on that.

[johnm]

I know you want everything onboard but if you look at industrial buttons you'll find they have multi switching set ups that would be ideal for keeping circuits seperate. Telemechanique make a range of buttons with interchangeable and stackable contact blocks, either n/o or n/c, you could have several of either or a combination of both.

[rablack97]

Did some testing and nothing good came out of it.

2 things,

I dont think the spoofing trick works with the 1.1 version of the frag.  I picked up a few 10ohm resistors plugs the ends into clock and data and the smartjoy will not recognize.  So i just hooked up my mouse

I wired everything up per the matrix and at first it did nothing then a few buttons works then it all just stopped working totally, not sure if the chip got fried or what.......I hope I get this working, if not i got a pile of parts that might go up in flames..........

[degenatrons]

Hey rablack,  I thought you 'd tried out the spoofing already on the unopened smartjoy - to test the keymappings.

The locking up happens when the smartjoy does not get a valid response from a connected keyboard or mouse.  If it locks up when your mouse is connected then I suspect that the keyboard IC is not acknowledging and that may be down to the wiring.

Can you verify that the spoof was working on the unopened smartjoy?
Can you send/post some close up pics of the wiring to the IC?  and I will see if I can see anything.

Thanks

[rablack97]

It was late last night so i'm gonna try again today.

The your referring to involved plugging in a keyboard and mouse.

I took your advice and breadboarded the entire matrix per the video etc.  So it was the hot mess of wiring that has failed.  I noticed also that the spoof was not working before i breadboarded the matrix, the 10ohm to data and clock is not triggering the ghost effect for the mouse.

It may have to with the more complex circuitry on the newer board that i have, which explains why your board can accept all kinds of mice and mine is choosy.

To be more detailed i had all the wires running to arcade buttons, the whole setup, I'm assuming one wire goes to normally open and the other to COM.  I wanted to do this to troubleshoot the blocking you were talking about.

I'll redo and send photos. 

I've also received some goodies for the prototype board, and need some suggestions and ideas in regards to the connectors.

I'll send photos

[rablack97]

ok i figured out why it wasnt working, my wires werent long enough for the ps/2 inserts for for the keyboard port.  I'm able to get to read inputs now..

Still one issue, the resistor spoofing trick does not work for v1.1, i have tried different resistors and it will not initialize unless a real mouse is plugged in.

So at this point it looks like my version will need a mouse connected to it.

[johnm]

What value resistors did you try? degenatron tried a 150 ohm resistor and it worked.

[degenatrons]

also try bridging ground and power to spoof the mouse - instead of clock and data.

Hopefully I will have some v1.1's in the batch that I ordered from US weeks ago.  It's frustrating waiting for the post.

[rablack97]

i tried a different variety 59k 56k 100ohm 10 ohm, that's all i i have handy.

I also read up on your trial and errors degenetrons and did attempt to bridge the - and +, i used the 10 ohm doing that and got a funny smell and the resistor got very hot.

I think some extra coding or cirucuitry was added for mouse stability and now the chips on my board aren't liking our trickery, cause as soon as the mouse goes in, it works fine.

Another thing i found out is once the mouse is plugged in and recognized, it can be removed and the buttons still work.  It's like it only needs it for initial bootup and then thats it.

After looking at your smartjoy degenetron, I think you got a hold of the knockoff version.  The case on your version doesn't say smartjoy frag, I did some research and a knockoff version was fabricated soon after the original versions were made.  In your post you said the memeory slot just wiggles off, the one is mine is soldered in really good.  It's gonna take some desoldering to get the pins out.  So you can see where the 3rd party cut corners.  I buy from a guy in Florida, his are the real deal.  This may be why you were able to spoof your version, sad thing is the knockoff works....

[johnm]

Looking at pictures on ebay and google it does look like the smartjoy frag and smartbox2 are indeed different manufacturers, the case although similar has different ridges and the smartbox looks to have 7 screws holding it together opposed to the frags 4, hard to see properly so rablack97 and degenatron would have to confirm this.

[degenatrons]

Arghh!  I chased up my order with that ebay seller (gametimevault) and he said that he is not able to post them out.  He has made 4 attempts and the parcel keep coming back to him!!
He just cancelled my order and gave me a refund.

I'm quite keen to test out rablack's findings re: the unsupported spoof on v1.1 model. 
It appears that I have a cheap 3rd party smartjoy model.

The hack (as documented) should work perfectly well on both models,  but the v1.1 will need a connected mouse - at least for the moment.

[rablack97]

Johnm you are correct i have 4 screws.

Ok here is where we stand.

Pros : I wired up the entire matrix to buttons and jstik last night and success, and everything works great.

Cons :

• Spoof does not work
• v1.1 is not as mouse friendly smartbox version super finicky
• Exit function failed, tried a few scenarios, locked up, interested in your diode suggestion

Degenetron, I'll help you get smartjoy if interested.  I need some pcb lacquer that's only available in the U.K. send me an email and we can work something out.

[degenatrons]

I had a quick look to see what i could source in the UK for smart-thingy's...and I found yet another model....

This is called "The Ultimate Converter" by HAMA
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PS-2-PS2-Adapter-CONVERTER-Microsoft-XBOX-PC-MOUSE-KEYBOARD-FPS-NEW-Hama-/220895714074?pt=UK_Video_Games_Cables_and_Adaptors&hash=item336e691b1a#ht_1605wt_1396

Other 2 models are:

The smartbox II (looks exactly like what I have):
http://www.xettmultimedia.co.uk/products/xbox.php

and the Smartjoy Frag (the real mccoy):
http://www.amazon.com/Smartjoy-Frag-Keyboard-Mouse-Adapter-Xbox/dp/B0009VLUF4

I will order the HAMA thing and take a look at that.
rablack,  I will email you re: obtaining the smartjoys from the US seller.  Great if you can help.

[degenatrons]

Another potential supplier for bulk orders of the smartbox II (this is the known working one)...

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/242616161/Smart_Box_II_for_XBOX.html

Minimum order of 50 but says on the listing that they can produce 5000 per day!

I messaged for a price

[ark_ader]

I had a quick look to see what i could source in the UK for smart-thingy's...and I found yet another model....

This is called "The Ultimate Converter" by HAMA
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PS-2-PS2-Adapter-CONVERTER-Microsoft-XBOX-PC-MOUSE-KEYBOARD-FPS-NEW-Hama-/220895714074?pt=UK_Video_Games_Cables_and_Adaptors&hash=item336e691b1a#ht_1605wt_1396

Other 2 models are:

The smartbox II (looks exactly like what I have):
http://www.xettmultimedia.co.uk/products/xbox.php

and the Smartjoy Frag (the real mccoy):
http://www.amazon.com/Smartjoy-Frag-Keyboard-Mouse-Adapter-Xbox/dp/B0009VLUF4

I will order the HAMA thing and take a look at that.
rablack,  I will email you re: obtaining the smartjoys from the US seller.  Great if you can help.

I bought the HAMA adapter and I think it is a far better looking product than the smartJoy.  Instructions says you can map directly from the keyboard to the Xbox controller which sounds interesting.  I have a USB setup and just gave away all my PS/2 keyboards, so I have to wait for the converters in the post.  I'll tinker with it tonight and let you know if it is worth hacking up. 

Thanks for the link.