Happ Optical rotary joysticks

[Xiaou2]

and as a bonus you will also be able to play spinner games

 If you like playing your games with about half or less the typical control... then sure.

 Nobody is going to enjoy playing Tempest with an Optical Rotary.  Sorry.

 There are reasons why multiple controls exist.  Try to do everything with one controller, and you end up with
a controller that does poorly for ALL things it tries to do.

[gamuhar]

 Distance = Delay

 If you have to turn a dial 3x more distance to make the character change angle.. then you have effectively lost TIME.
If you lose time, thats called a DELAY.   If you have a delay in a game, that can cased loss of life.

You do not have to turn a dial 3x more, stop hallucinating already. Since it has at least twice the precision of mechanical rotary you actually can cut that distance in half. Did you read mytymaus007 post? He does not want damn bump-stops,

to him: BumpStops= resistance = delay+discomfort

A Rotary that Snaps, locks instantly into place, making the delay almost non-existent.

LOL. It only makes it easier to STOP, and in return it is that much harder to START turning and pass over lock-stops. That's exactly what mytymaus007 is complaining about, do you understand? Maybe you think they should add bum-lock to Arkanoid or Missile Command as well, perhaps that would make them FASTER?

Furthermore, yes, you Could make the sensitivity higher for the opticals, making almost no delay.  However, that would then
probably lead to the player accidentally going Past the intended direction.

 Even if you got the exact match for rotational distances between the two types of controllers,  Since the optical does not
snap lock into the exact positions... eventually you will lose or gain distances... which again, equates to lost time.

Of course you can match rotations 1:1 if you like. MAME developers actually took more care to make it working with optical rotary than mechanical, it was easier. The rest of what you said is wrong. Probably? Who do you think is interested in your assumptions? You keep talking about it and you never actually tried it, have you?

 

Do some research on Joysticks, about 'Throw', 'Actuation', switch type, etc.  You will find that many people are very critical
about losses in control.  Shump players tend to use Japanese short throw sticks, because the travel to actuation is reduced, thus you get quicker response times.

Do you really have optical rotary and have you ever actually tried playing any spinner or mechanical rotary games with it?

[gamuhar]

 If you like playing your games with about half or less the typical control... then sure.

Oh, I have plenty of resolution on my optical rotary, playing Tempest or Arkanoid is much better than with a mouse, almost as good as with a spinner, I really enjoy it and I don't feel the playability is compromised at all, it just feels a little bit different at the beginning. You still do not know the resolution of Happ optical rotary, it could easily have better resolution than Arkanoid.

You know Arkanoid actually has 24 notches encoder wheel?

Nobody is going to enjoy playing Tempest with an Optical Rotary.  Sorry.

Speak for yourself only, people already do enjoy it:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=118265.0

... and as you can see there are even more people interested to try it out. And if Andy thinks that's good enough to start production, then what weight you believe your assumptions have here? Your agenda is wrong. Give it up, goblin. Or try it out, it does not bite!

[RandyT]

You still do not know the resolution of Happ optical rotary, it could easily have better resolution than Arkanoid. You know Arkanoid actually has 24 notches encoder wheel?

It's simple enough to find out...the part number is described as "PLASTIC STAR WHEEL F/TRACKBALL (24 SLOTS)".  So yes, same encoder wheel as Arkanoid, but that's a small part of the equation.  The Arkanoid control is geared, so the resolution of the control is a result of the encoder resolution multiplied by the gear ratio.  

With just about any quadrature decoder, you would get 96 counts from that wheel (without gearing), so it would be enough for Tempest, and some others.  But twisting a stick doesn't come close to the feel of a free-wheeling spinner control when playing the game.  A game like Arkanoid, a driving game, or a game where a potentiometer based control was originally used, requires much more resolution to be played properly than this particular control can provide.

As for "click" vs "no-click", I'm with Xiaou2 on this.  Yes, you can play it without detents in the positioning device, but the experience will be much better with them.  The detents provide a positive stop for position, and will prevent erroneous movement.  This provides the player with instant tactile feedback upon direction change, and removes the necessity to concentrate on not accidentally twisting the stick, whilst using it to move.

It's fine for one to take the position that a game can be played adequately, based on their own expectations, with a non-ideal controller.  But it is patently absurd to take the position that the ideal controller offers no real benefit, and that there are no compromises inherent to the alternatives.

[gamuhar]

It's simple enough to find out...the part number is described as "PLASTIC STAR WHEEL F/TRACKBALL (24 SLOTS)".  So yes, same encoder wheel as Arkanoid, but that's a small part of the equation.  The Arkanoid control is geared, so the resolution of the control is a result of the encoder resolution multiplied by the gear ratio.  

So there could be some "transmission" and 24 notches in Happ optical rotary does not really define its resolution.

I'm really delighted for your appearance, wizard. I'm always keen to negotiate some deal if you ever change your mind about that 720 Degrees spinner mod. Anyway, we all understand how mechanical transmission works with larger and smaller gears/rollers/balls changing rotation ratio, but how does software "transmission" work, what about "multiplier" thing? Would it be possible then to have 25x multiplier built in optical board and get higher resolution than Arkanoid even if with only 24 notches encoder wheel?

With just about any quadrature decoder, you would get 96 counts from that wheel (without gearing), so it would be enough for Tempest, and some others.

Thank you, my favorite wizard!

How did you arrive at 96 counts, is that "at least"?

As for "click" vs "no-click", I'm with Xiaou2 on this.  Yes, you can play it without detents in the positioning device, but the experience will be much better with them.  The detents provide a positive stop for position, and will prevent erroneous movement.  This provides the player with instant tactile feedback upon direction change, and removes the necessity to concentrate on not accidentally twisting the stick, whilst using it to move.

I never disagreed about "tactile feedback", that's a part of personal preferences and out of the scope of what I wish to discuss. Only if you mean to suggest it can impact the score, only then it is worth discussion, but otherwise it's for everyone to figure out for themselves. Do you agree?

You need to consider that guy who started this thread is actually looking to get rid of that "feature". He knows all about it and that's the reason why he does not play those games. Maybe you should explain to him what he feels about it is wrong?

Have you actually tried playing any mechanical rotary games with optical rotary? I don't have any such problems as you describe. Do you think that's how it is to play Caliber .50 this joystick was made for and has 24 positions? Do you believe there would be twice as much "erroneous movement" than with Ikari Warriors, or half as much? If you can properly play Caliber .50 with it, then surely it would be even more suitable for those mechanical rotary games with half the precision, yes?

It's fine for one to take the position that a game can be played adequately, based on their own expectations, with a non-ideal controller.  But it is patently absurd to take the position that the ideal controller offers no real benefit, and that there are no compromises inherent to the alternatives.

Why did you say that? If you mean to imply I took that absurd position then please quote me as you seem to be misinterpreting something. I repeated several times and was very clear what my position is, please:

- "Again, my point is not that you should replace mechanical rotary or Arkanoid spinner with optical rotary stick, but those are BONUS things you can do with optical rotary if you already have it."

- "Sure there are compromises and trade offs, but that's about personal preferences and for everyone to figure out for themselves."

[gamuhar]

RandyT, I have better design for rotary mod than Andy. You can actually make it work like a spinner, all you need is some weight at the bottom for inertia, and you can get the handle swapable, so you could put ball, bat or a spinner handle on the same stick, and possibly some lock restrictor for directional movement when in "spinner mode".

There is also a way add calibration input to 720 Degrees spinner hack, by simply placing some microswitch at 12 o'clock position so it gets triggered every time the handle passes the north. Let's do it, maaan!

[Xiaou2]

You need to consider that guy who started this thread is actually looking to get rid of that "feature". He knows all about it and that's the reason why he does not play those games. Maybe you should explain to him what he feels about it is wrong?

 He is having a problem, because the Happs version of the stick does not have the Octagon handle grip.  Without the special grip, you cant get enough torque to easily turn the thing.

 All the rest of your drivel is pointless to even bother with.  Your completely deaf, blind, and Dumb, by your own ignorance and bad attitude.

[gamuhar]

Dear Xiaou,

You were:

- WRONG about loss of precision optical rotary would have for mechanical rotary games

- WRONG about supposed delay optical rotary would have for mechanical rotary games

- WRONG about lack of resolution optical rotary would have to play most spinner games


That's all we argued about and you were wrong each time. All you had to do is just try it out and you wouldn't be making fun of yourself. Ignorant? Randy just confirmed it, don't you believe _him? Andy is even making it, people are lining to order it, and you are the one who never even took five minutes to try it out yet found appropriate to waste everyone's time by farting silly hallucinations for three days. You are the very definition of what "ignorant" means. Give it up, goblin! You never even tried it, admit it!!


P.S.
I do notice your "d" capitalization in the middle of a sentence, I also notice you care enough to capitalize "Arkanoid", but not "mame", and when... you.. talk.. nonsense... you.. often... ..stutter.. like.. this.. ...it's.. ..funny. Thanks for the laughs! :-)

[CheffoJeffo]

I am disappoint.

I had hoped for more in a driverman vs Xiaou thread.

[Xiaou2]

The things I said were to do with Mechanics, feel, and proper gameplay.   You simply cant grasp it, as its way above your capacity.

 - Precision loss = Player cant find things accurately with FEEL
 - Delay = Player shoots past the intended zone to change, or barely into one section... then twice the distance to the next jump.
 - Resolution = Not sure if this is correct. Not sure if Randy is calculating the diameter of the wheel.  However, so what.  The game will never play well with a stick, even With the res.


 Its not just resolution, its the actual diameter of the circle that plays a factor as well.  More control, isnt just about higher resolution.  Again, I dont expect you to actually comprehend this at all.

 Playing and spinner game with a stick, would be pathetic.

 The stick also sucks for pretty much everything else too.  Its pretty stiff, and not anywhere near as nice as the comps.  Its just not that great of a stick.

[TopJimmyCooks]

setting aside for a quick second whether optical rotaries are any good for 12 click or spinner games -

could someone make a rubber sleeve like a kid's pencil gripper to go over the bat and give an octagon, grippy tactile surface?  Seems like I saw somewhere that those were able to be prototyped fairly cheaply.   Could somebody do a one off by putting on that Sculpey clay and molding it around a bat top?  If it were me prototyping it I would make an octagon grip out of hardwood, demo the bat top plastic and glue it on more or less permanently as Xiao2 mentioned. 

spitballing some ideas for the OP here.

[RandyT]

So there could be some "transmission" and 24 notches in Happ optical rotary does not really define its resolution.

There is no "transmission" in a Happ optical rotary.  It is 1:1.

Anyway, we all understand how mechanical transmission works with larger and smaller gears/rollers/balls changing rotation ratio, but how does software "transmission" work, what about "multiplier" thing? Would it be possible then to have 25x multiplier built in optical board and get higher resolution than Arkanoid even if with only 24 notches encoder wheel?

How did you arrive at 96 counts, is that "at least"?

No, that is the maximum.  You could get 24, 48 or 96, depending on the decoding scheme, from that encoder wheel.

I never disagreed about "tactile feedback", that's a part of personal preferences and out of the scope of what I wish to discuss. Only if you mean to suggest it can impact the score, only then it is worth discussion, but otherwise it's for everyone to figure out for themselves. Do you agree?

It certainly can impact the score.  If you concede that detents are helpful, then you must also concede that the lack of them places a certain disadvantage on the player.  How much will depend on the players themselves, but less effort concentrating on the control will almost always mean a better ability to concentrate on actually playing the game.

Have you actually tried playing any mechanical rotary games with optical rotary? I don't have any such problems as you describe. Do you think that's how it is to play Caliber .50 this joystick was made for and has 24 positions? Do you believe there would be twice as much "erroneous movement" than with Ikari Warriors, or half as much? If you can properly play Caliber .50 with it, then surely it would be even more suitable for those mechanical rotary games with half the precision, yes?

Yes, I have played these games, with both types of controls.  If not, I would not be commenting.  I've also played them with an up down spinner, where the fire button was mapped to the down switch.  There are a number of ways to get the input the game expects, but there are always compromises without the actual control.  A game with finer granularity in positioning will benefit from the optical approach, more so than one where fewer positions are used.  This is simple to explain; The greater the distance between the points at which your movement of the control actually results in a change in the game, the more difficult it is to judge where that change occurs, or where in that zone you currently are.

Why did you say that? If you mean to imply I took that absurd position then please quote me as you seem to be misinterpreting something. I repeated several times and was very clear what my position is, please:

Oh, I have plenty of resolution on my optical rotary, playing Tempest or Arkanoid is much better than with a mouse, almost as good as with a spinner, I really enjoy it and I don't feel the playability is compromised at all

While you may not "feel the playability is compromised at all", it most certainly is with those titles.  If you enjoy playing them with the additional hampering added by the control, that's fine.  It's not for me to judge what makes folks happy.  However, if you want to promote the notion that there is little difference, then that is just misleading to folks who may not have the experience to know otherwise.  Those who do have that experience, are attempting to temper your enthusiasm for poor controls with some facts about the originals, in order to stem the flow of misinformation and to help prevent disappointment for folks who are looking for the most enjoyable ways to play the games.

- Resolution = Not sure if this is correct. Not sure if Randy is calculating the diameter of the wheel.  However, so what.  The game will never play well with a stick, even With the res.

The diameter of the encoder wheel has absolutely no bearing on the resolution or feel.  You turn the center of the wheel (more specifically, the knob attached to it), and everything else follows that, regardless of the distance between it and the outside edge.  Tempest used a 72 aperture encoder, decoded at 1x.  A 24 aperture encoder, decoded at 4x, is actually higher resolution than required by the game.  But you won't find any argument from me about the playability statement .

could someone make a rubber sleeve like a kid's pencil gripper to go over the bat and give an octagon, grippy tactile surface?  Seems like I saw somewhere that those were able to be prototyped fairly cheaply.   Could somebody do a one off by putting on that Sculpey clay and molding it around a bat top?  If it were me prototyping it I would make an octagon grip out of hardwood, demo the bat top plastic and glue it on more or less permanently as Xiao2 mentioned. 

Honestly, I like the idea of milling the handle to have flats on it.  A 3-Axis mill, or Shopsmith type machine, could do this pretty easily.  Barring that, a short section (3/4 to 1" long) of soft silicone tubing, of the proper diameter and thickness, could be stretched over the knob to provide a more comfortable and less "slippy" grip.

One could also approach the problem by making a slip-on cover, held to the handle by nylon set screws.

RandyT

[gamuhar]

There is no "transmission" in a Happ optical rotary.  It is 1:1.
No, that is the maximum.  You could get 24, 48 or 96, depending on the decoding scheme, from that encoder wheel. 

I'll call it "multiplier" then. Beside standard "multiplier" that is up to 4x, there is also "interpolation" multiplier that can go up to 20x or more, do you have any experience working with those, how does price/benefit compare?

It certainly can impact the score.  If you concede that detents are helpful, then you must also concede that the lack of them places a certain disadvantage on the player.  How much will depend on the players themselves, but less effort concentrating on the control will almost always mean a better ability to concentrate on actually playing the game.

Looks like a trade off, good side and bad side. That's the thing with friction.

A game with finer granularity in positioning will benefit from the optical approach, more so than one where fewer positions are used.  This is simple to explain; The greater the distance between the points at which your movement of the control actually results in a change in the game, the more difficult it is to judge where that change occurs, or where in that zone you currently are.

Window for error also get proportionally larger, but you can set the distance to be just like on Caliber .50 if you like, and make a full character turn in only half the turn of the stick, so twice as fast, if not more since there is less resistance. You seem to only be thinking about moving one position, but for say 180 degrees turn, would bump-stops help make that move faster, easier and more precise as well? 

Having no bump-stops, do you have any similar problems with Arkanoid and Tempest spinners?

While you may not "feel the playability is compromised at all", it most certainly is with those titles.  If you enjoy playing them with the additional hampering added by the control, that's fine.  It's not for me to judge what makes folks happy.

Only a Sith deals in absolutes, people are different and that makes everything relative. What's hampering for you is not necessarily hampering for others, and what's helping you can be annoyance to others, which is the case we have here. This is what guy who started this thread said:

- "The reason i want to know is i already have the mechanical rotaries and they hurt my hand so i dont even bother playing those games im assuming if the Optical Rotaries spin smoother then click click mechanical stick that would be wonderful."

 However, if you want to promote the notion that there is little difference, then that is just misleading to folks who may not have the experience to know otherwise.  Those who do have that experience, are attempting to temper your enthusiasm for poor controls with some facts about the originals, in order to stem the flow of misinformation and to help prevent disappointment for folks who are looking for the most enjoyable ways to play the games. 

 

Again, my point is not that you should replace mechanical rotary or Arkanoid spinner with optical rotary stick, but those are BONUS things you can do with optical rotary if you already have it. I'm just saying the same thing as this guy here: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=118265.0

- "It's not a spinner by any means, but I did play tempest, and it worked great. Mad planets is a blast!! Smooth and fast."

[gamuhar]

The things I said were to do with Mechanics, feel, and proper gameplay.   You simply cant grasp it, as its way above your capacity.

 - Precision loss = Player cant find things accurately with FEEL
 - Delay = Player shoots past the intended zone to change, or barely into one section... then twice the distance to the next jump.
 - Resolution = Not sure if this is correct. Not sure if Randy is calculating the diameter of the wheel.  However, so what.  The game will never play well with a stick, even With the res.

You are talking about PLAYER, I am talking about JOYSTICK.

Optical rotary joystick itself has the ability to be just as accurate and fast as mechanical rotary and if there is any error, lack of precision, or delay it is ONLY due to a player and "human factor".

Can we agree on this, at least?

Playing and spinner game with a stick, would be pathetic.

You think, and so you will not even try it out?

The stick also sucks for pretty much everything else too.  Its pretty stiff, and not anywhere near as nice as the comps.  Its just not that great of a stick.

You can make it from any stick you want.

[RandyT]

I'll call it "multiplier" then. Beside standard "multiplier" that is up to 4x, there is also "interpolation" multiplier that can go up to 20x or more, do you have any experience working with those, how does price/benefit compare?

You don't understand.  It is not a multiplier.  Decoding an aperture wheel is one of those "Sith" absolutes.  You can always tune it down to something less than the maximum possible, but "multiplying" it will not make it higher in resolution.  Interpolation is also of little value, as any attempt to use it simply results in a loss of accuracy.

Looks like a trade off, good side and bad side. That's the thing with friction.

Friction <> positive stop.  A duck is a bird, but a bird is not necessarily a duck.

Window for error also get proportionally larger, but you can set the distance to be just like on Caliber .50 if you like, and make a full character turn in only half the turn of the stick, so twice as fast, if not more since there is less resistance. You seem to only be thinking about moving one position, but for say 180 degrees turn, would bump-stops help make that move faster, easier and more precise as well?  

Of course you can do that.  You can also set the sensitivity to 100% on a 24 spoke encoder wheel and play Arkanoid without the paddle jumping.  Of course, it will take more than a complete revolution of the control to get from one side of the screen to the other.  Most would choose not to play that way, given the option.  Your example is no different.  By increasing the speed of the turn, the position of the control is no longer relative to what is happening on-screen, which exacerbates the disconnect between player and game.  It will also make it more prone to positioning errors, by making the zones smaller.

Only a Sith deals in absolutes, people are different and that makes everything relative. What's hampering for you is not necessarily hampering for others, and what's helping you can be annoyance to others, which is the case we have here. This is what guy who started this thread said:

- "The reason i want to know is i already have the mechanical rotaries and they hurt my hand so i dont even bother playing those games im assuming if the Optical Rotaries spin smoother then click click mechanical stick that would be wonderful."

That's fine.  People have different needs.  Obviously the ultimate solution for the OP would be a mechanical stick with less resistance.  Some will always be better than none for the games designed for those controls.

One can play Missile Command and Centipede with a joystick.  Is it unreasonable to claim that both of those games will always be better with a trackball than a joystick?  Or by tilting a cell phone?  If you believe the answer is "yes" then you have expectations much lower than most here.

[Gray_Area]

...........I'm rather surprised Randy got so swindled into this...........

Wiping the whole conversation, including X2's commentary, would grace the thread.



@TopJimmyCooks: look back on what PL1 said.

@PL1: I was thinking of handle texture after grinding, but hadn't thought of what/how. Good idea. Alternatively, (without grinding) an octagonal 'cover' might cost several dollars to have made by an online 3D printer; then glue it on. Grinding and then coating might be best. Easy enough to have long done by now......

[RandyT]

...........I'm rather surprised Randy got so swindled into this...........

Gotta keep the facts straight, even when it means engaging characters one would rather not deal with.  Too many folks come here looking for good info, to ignore it when someone attempts to unravel generally accepted realities.

I wouldn't try grinding the plastic handle of the joystick.  The material is a thermoplastic, which would probably become gummy when friction starts to heat it up.  One would also need to be quite a craftsman to hand grind an octagon.  A local machine shop could probably mill flats onto the handle, and leave a good finish.  Realistically, without detents, there's no real benefit to the octagon shape.  The suggestion of a soft rubber grip of some nature, would work to address the OP's issues, simply and effectively.

RandyT

[TPB]

...........I'm rather surprised Randy got so swindled into this...........

Wiping the whole conversation, including X2's commentary, would grace the thread.

Why would you say that ?

X2 has a right to present his opinions, and they have merit.

He's being baited in a deplorable manner by gamuhar.  What's this with smugly referring to Randy as "Wizard" ?  I reckon Randy, with everything he's contributed to this hobby, should be shown a little more respect than that.

[Gray_Area]

...........I'm rather surprised Randy got so swindled into this...........

Wiping the whole conversation, including X2's commentary, would grace the thread.

X2 has a right to present his opinions, and they have merit. He's being baited in a deplorable manner by gamuhar.

What's this with smugly referring to Randy as "Wizard" ?

Who said 'wizard'?

X2 is a junky getting his fix in this kind of circumstance. You need to help him kick the habit.

[PL1]

X2 has a right to present his opinions, and they have merit. He's being baited in a deplorable manner by gamuhar.

What's this with smugly referring to Randy as "Wizard" ?

Who said 'wizard'?

TPB was referring to Gaymuhar.

Thank you, my favorite wizard!
. . .
I'm really delighted for your appearance, wizard.

Scott

[Xiaou2]

I

wouldn't try grinding the plastic handle of the joystick.  The material is a thermoplastic, which would probably become gummy when friction starts to heat it up.

.

 I agree.  Tried it long ago, got all melty.. and the texture left behind wasnt pretty at all.  Sanding didnt seem to help much either.

Realistically, without detents, there's no real benefit to the octagon shape.  The suggestion of a soft rubber grip of some nature, would work to address the OP's issues, simply and effectively.

 Actually, AFAIK, the Happs mechanical rotary does in fact have detents.  (snaps into position)

X2 is a junky getting his fix in this kind of circumstance.

 Uhh.. You mean to say, that giving people good advice, and steering them clear of nonsense is bad?   I think you need to reconsider your position, and adjust your attitude to suit.

[RandyT]

Actually, AFAIK, the Happs mechanical rotary does in fact have detents.  (snaps into position)

Yes, it does.  I was referring to the optical version, which doesn't.  Either way, the octagon shape won't address the "comfort" issue, and may in fact make it worse.  So I still think the OP will be happiest with the addition of a soft rubber grip, regardless of the version used. 

[Xiaou2]

Yes, it does.  I was referring to the optical version, which doesn't.  Either way, the octagon shape won't address the "comfort" issue, and may in fact make it worse.  So I still think the OP will be happiest with the addition of a soft rubber grip, regardless of the version used. 

 Ahh, i see.

 However, Im not so certain about the grip issue.  The octagon shape gives your fingers and or hand some leverage points.  Where as a round stick has nothing to purchase on... which causes you to slip... which means you have to grip the thing with much more strength, which causes fast fatigue.  Most screwdrivers have some angular configurations for the similar reasons.

 A combination of hard angles, and a semi-soft exterior, might be the best solution.
Maybe some sort of rubber sleeve...  Maybe one can use the exterior of a screwdriver / nut driver, as an option.

[RandyT]

However, Im not so certain about the grip issue.  The octagon shape gives your fingers and or hand some leverage points.  Where as a round stick has nothing to purchase on... which causes you to slip... which means you have to grip the thing with much more strength, which causes fast fatigue.  Most screwdrivers have some angular configurations for the similar reasons.

A combination of hard angles, and a semi-soft exterior, might be the best solution.

A soft rubber grip will increase the friction between your fingers and the handle, so it may end up as a wash.  Screwdriver handles typically are expected to provide more grip than would be expected to turn a switch.   But I agree that a combination of the two would probably be the best solution, albeit a bit more complex to make a reality.

[Xiaou2]

I think another factor to consider, is how you play these games.

 I think the LS-30s are held more from the top.  This makes it easier to turn the stick fully in any direction, without adjusting your wrists so often... as well as better maintaining directional control in the process.

 I know one things for sure... I HATE that the happs rotaries are built off the Super joystick. The super's have those leaf-based microswitches, which get warped easily... and they are also very stiff and fatiguing.  Lot of resistance to that stick... and IMO, poor diagonals.

 The LS-30s are interesting, in that they are very close (identical? Ive never opened mine up that far to check)  in design to the modern Japanese joysticks.  Shallow depth, very light and springy.. easy to move.

 The smaller diameter shaft might also make turning the rotary easier too.






 Hmm... the more I think about this... When I ever do eventually get back to making things, I will probably Butcher my Happ Optical Rotaries, and make the parts work with the Happ Comps.  A far superior stick, which can be used decently well for almost anything.
 

[PL1]

X2,

Have you tried putting the LS-32/zippy switch kit into a Happ Super/Rotary?

I tried it on my Supers and really like the results.

YMMV.


Scott

[Arimack]

Mytymaus,

Back to physically modding your existing Happ handles, (Disclaimer: I have not tried Sugru myself yet but have been reading tons of good things about it) you could buy Sugru, mold it onto your Happs in an octagonal shape, and let it dry.  

http://sugru.com/

I would want to build a form of some sort to get the octagonal shape exact but it could solve the problem of the grip issues of the Happ at a relatively cheap cost.

[mytymaus007]

Mytymaus,

Back to physically modding your existing Happ handles, (Disclaimer: I have not tried Sugru myself yet but have been reading tons of good things about it) you could buy Sugru, mold it onto your Happs in an octagonal shape, and let it dry.  

http://sugru.com/

I would want to build a form of some sort to get the octagonal shape exact but it could solve the problem of the grip issues of the Happ at a relatively cheap cost.

interesting Arimack ill look into it!

[RandyT]

Back to physically modding your existing Happ handles, (Disclaimer: I have not tried Sugru myself yet but have been reading tons of good things about it) you could buy Sugru, mold it onto your Happs in an octagonal shape, and let it dry.  

http://sugru.com/

I would want to build a form of some sort to get the octagonal shape exact but it could solve the problem of the grip issues of the Happ at a relatively cheap cost.

Nice suggestion.  I have not tried this myself, but have read that something similar can be home brewed using "Clear GE Kitchen and Bath Silicone Rubber 1", thinned very slightly with VM&P Naphtha (hardware store) and colored with Acrylic paints (craft store, Wal-Mart, etc...)  Supposedly, putting the resulting concoction into some water will allow one to roll it into a ball which can be modeled, shaped, spread onto a form, etc. and will have similar properties after a 24hr cure.

FWIW.

[mytymaus007]

Back to physically modding your existing Happ handles, (Disclaimer: I have not tried Sugru myself yet but have been reading tons of good things about it) you could buy Sugru, mold it onto your Happs in an octagonal shape, and let it dry.  

http://sugru.com/

I would want to build a form of some sort to get the octagonal shape exact but it could solve the problem of the grip issues of the Happ at a relatively cheap cost.

Nice suggestion.  I have not tried this myself, but have read that something similar can be home brewed using "Clear GE Kitchen and Bath Silicone Rubber 1", thinned very slightly with VM&P Naphtha (hardware store) and colored with Acrylic paints (craft store, Wal-Mart, etc...)  Supposedly, putting the resulting concoction into some water will allow one to roll it into a ball which can be modeled, shaped, spread onto a form, etc. and will have similar properties after a 24hr cure.

FWIW.

Hey Randy this looks like a job for you. it could be another product in your line! You should take a vote here and see who would be willing to order a custom grip for rotary joysticks. IM in for one if you decide you can do it!!! Anyone else?

[mytymaus007]

Acutally does anyone know how many times you can continue playing Victory Road and Ikari Warrior. Im actually reconsidering Rotay games im MAME altogether. The reason why is I think you can continue for ever the only thing that resets is the score but its really not challeging enough to keep playing you can actually complete the entire game without ever rotating the stick just press continue and keep firing straight ahead. How does everyone feel about this situation. If anyone else knows any other rotary games that you cannot continue after your game is over.

[nick3092]

X2,

Have you tried putting the LS-32/zippy switch kit into a Happ Super/Rotary?

I tried it on my Supers and really like the results.

YMMV.


Scott

I replaced pretty much all of my joystick microswitches with Randy's SST microswitch about a year ago.  He installed levers on some of them for me, so I was able to put them in my Happ rotary.  Definitely a nicer feel than the stock ones.

[Gray_Area]

Uhh.. You mean to say, that giving people good advice, and steering them clear of nonsense is bad?   I think you need to reconsider your position, and adjust your attitude to suit.

That was probably one of the briefest things you've said in....the time I've seen you here. I'll take credit for that.