Happ Optical rotary joysticks

[mytymaus007]

I have (Mechanical )Happ Rotary joysticks for rotary games but they are terrible and kill my hands from turning them, they would be better if the handle was octogon instead of round. Anyway I was wondering if anyone tried the Happ (Optical) rotary sticks. I heard these spin freely closer to a spinner. Do these sticks work for all rotary games.

Mechanical Rotary joystick games (Happ Mechanical Rotary sticks)
 Battle Field
Top Gunner (bootleg)
World Wars
Ikari Warriors
Victory Road
Heavy Barrel
Gondomania
Bermuda Triangle
Time Soldiers
Guerilla War
SAR - Search And Rescue
Downtown
Victory Road
Midnight Resistance
Ikari III - The Rescue
Exterminator (unknown whether this used mechanical or optical rotary sticks)
TNK III
Battle Field (Japanese verion of Time Soldiers)
Dogosoken (Japanese version of Victory Road)
Makyou Senshi (Japanese version of Gondomania)
Guevara (Japanese version of Guerrilla War)


Optical Rotary games (Happ Optical rotary sticks)
 Caliber .50
Touchdown Fever
Touchdown Fever II

[Gray_Area]

I suggest making some customs handles.

[AGarv]

At first I agreed with Gray_Area, although the more I think about it, don't the rotary sticks use a custom shaft that plugs directly into the rotary control?  Custom shafts with pre-threaded tops from GGG or Paradise aren't going to be an option.  Making a custom joystick top for a pre-existing shafter could be a real challenge.

Sorry I don't have any experience with the optical rotaries - I have some mechanical rotaries like you, and took them off my panel as I didn't like how the "arm" attached to the bottom of the shaft (you know what I am talking about) felt while playing SF2.

[mytymaus007]

Does anyone use these (useless) Happ (Optical) rotary sticks for anything!

[Gray_Area]

You could sand/grind grooves into the bats. Or grind them into hexagons/octagons (doesn't matter, I don't think).

[mytymaus007]

its a thought!

[Xiaou2]

Plastic isnt always the easiest to polish... especially certain types, like the happs bats.

 Id sand / cut off the plastic bat right off the shaft... then attack a custom made hardwood hex shape on top.  Rough the shaft up a little, and make sure its a tight fit.. then use some epoxy putty to hold it to the shaft.  Tap it on with a rubber mallet so it does not crack and or get marred up.
 
 You may want to also drill two small holes in the thing, and right into the shaft.  Tap the hole, and insert a threaded set-screw.  However, as strong as the epoxy paste is.. and with a tight fit, it probably wont need it.

[mytymaus007]

Plastic isnt always the easiest to polish... especially certain types, like the happs bats.

 Id sand / cut off the plastic bat right off the shaft... then attack a custom made hardwood hex shape on top.  Rough the shaft up a little, and make sure its a tight fit.. then use some epoxy putty to hold it to the shaft.  Tap it on with a rubber mallet so it does not crack and or get marred up.
 
 You may want to also drill two small holes in the thing, and right into the shaft.  Tap the hole, and insert a threaded set-screw.  However, as strong as the epoxy paste is.. and with a tight fit, it probably wont need it.

Has anyone did this before!

[Xiaou2]

I have chopped off the plastic on a happs bat and fixed a custom wood carved trigger stick to the metal shaft. 

Also, I made a custom ball top sinistar stick. I modded an analog joystick, popped in a metal shaft to the linkage, and epoxy-ed on a wooden ball to the top.  Worked great.

Its not that difficult to mod these things.

[gamuhar]

Does anyone use these (useless) Happ (Optical) rotary sticks for anything!

You should be able to play all those games that use mechanical rotary with it, but not the other way around as you'd loose precision, plus all the spinner games like Arkanoid and Tempest. Is your comment just about the handle itself, not comfortable enough, slippery, or something like that?

[Xiaou2]

You would never want to play Arkanoid, or pretty much any spinner game with a Rotary.

 There isnt enough resolution, let alone it being comfortable to twist extensively.

[mytymaus007]

Does anyone use these (useless) Happ (Optical) rotary sticks for anything!

You should be able to play all those games that use mechanical rotary with it, but not the other way around as you'd loose precision, plus all the spinner games like Arkanoid and Tempest. Is your comment just about the handle itself, not comfortable enough, slippery, or something like that?

its about the grip and how and if anybody uses the optical sticks and how they work with the rotary games! I have the mechanical ones now but would liketo have a different grip on them

[gamuhar]

its about the grip and how and if anybody uses the optical sticks and how they work with the rotary games! I have the mechanical ones now but would liketo have a different grip on them

I have home-made one, but any optical rotary should work just fine for 12-position mechanical rotary games. You can see that yourself, more or less, by trying it with your mouse. You would have the same speed and precision in the player movement, so you should be able to score the same. The rest is about personal preferences, so I'm afraid you will never truly know unless you actually try it out yourself.

[Xiaou2]

optical rotary should work just fine for 12-position mechanical rotary games

 Again, work and play well... are very different.   The bump-stops on the mechanical rotary will match the actual players
on-screen character exactly.  Without that stop, it makes it a little more difficult to both know where your player is
facing... and more critical:  to accidentally shoot past the intended direction you wished to stop at.

[gamuhar]

Again, work and play well... are very different.   The bump-stops on the mechanical rotary will match the actual players
on-screen character exactly.  Without that stop, it makes it a little more difficult to both know where your player is
facing... and more critical:  to accidentally shoot past the intended direction you wished to stop at.

I don't think bum-stops will help you be more precise or score more, it seems like a minor thing human adaptive system can compensate and learn to do without in probably less than 5 minutes.

No one should go and replace their mechanical rotary with optical, but if you can put only one joystick on a cabinet then optical rotary will make the most of the games playable, that's all I am saying. Sure there are compromises and trade offs, but that's about personal preferences and for everyone to figure out for themselves.

[gamuhar]

You would never want to play Arkanoid, or pretty much any spinner game with a Rotary.

 There isnt enough resolution, let alone it being comfortable to twist extensively.

Have you tried it?

Can you define "resolution" you're talking about, what units it has?
What is resolution of optical rotary and that of Tempest for example?

[Xiaou2]

A typical tempest spinner has a disc with something like 72 spokes.

Arkanoid has gearing, and I think its 420 ticks per one spinner revolution.

A standard rotary found on a happs optical rotary is something like 20 ticks at most.

Yes, you can bump up the analog scaling... but, you lose a TON of precision in the process.
Especially with Arkanoid... which is basically unplayable with a standard low-resolution spinner.

I don't think bum-stops will help you be more precise

 Thinking, and knowing, are very different things.   There are reasons why bump stops were added.

No one should go and replace their mechanical rotary with optical, but if you can put only one joystick on a cabinet then optical rotary will make the most of the games playable, that's all I am saying. Sure there are compromises and trade offs, but that's about personal preferences and for everyone to figure out for themselves.

 I agree, that its up to the individual to know which control he would like to compromise on.

 I just provide my advice, and factual data.. so that the person can make a choice best suited to their desires.

[PL1]

Can you define "resolution" you're talking about, what units it has?
What is resolution of optical rotary and that of Tempest for example?

You do know there is a search tab, right.

http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/wiki/Spinner_Turn_Count

Unit is Counts_Per_Revolution
Tempest=72
Arkanoid=486

http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/wiki/Joysticks#Rotary_Joysticks

"Mechanical rotary sticks are the type that most people remember from games like Ikari Warriors. They have a 12-position rotary switch attached to the bottom of the joystick, which is turned by rotating the handle."

Friendly advice, Gamuhar -- Two eyes, two ears, one mouth.  Try using them in that proportion instead of trumpeting your ignorance, unless you actually are intentionally playing the fool and trolling, in which case, you have succeeded with your first goal beyond your wildest imagination in only 25 posts.


Scott

[gamuhar]

Thinking, and knowing, are very different things.   

You only think that you know because you believe in your assumptions as if they were a fact.

There are reasons why bump stops were added.

Have you tried it or not? Do you even have optical rotary? I have, and I'm informing you your assumptions are wrong, try it out and you will see. Whatever is the reason for bump-stops lack of them does not compromise 30 degrees precision.

I just provide my advice, and factual data..

You failed to answer the questions.

- Tempest: 72 spokes
- Opt. rotary: 20 ticks at most

Spokes per inch? Ticks per second?

That's not resolution, "resolution" here is not spatial but temporal. Usually people talk about "sensitivity" and the units are counts per inch (CPI) or dots per inch (DPI). We can't properly talk about it unless you get your terms strait:

--> Define "resolution" you're talking about, what units it has?

[gamuhar]

Friendly advice, Gamuhar -- Two eyes, two ears, one mouth.  Try using them in that proportion instead of trumpeting your ignorance, unless you actually are intentionally playing the fool and trolling, in which case, you have succeeded with your first goal beyond your wildest imagination in only 25 posts.

Your advice does not sound friendly, goblin. I'm talking to Xiaou, and I am not ignorant, I am being rhetoric. By asking him that question I am hoping he we realize he doesn't really know what he is talking about, and in the same time I am giving him time to look it up on the internet before he jumps into yet another conclusion. Now, that's friendly!

[gamuhar]

You do know there is a search tab, right.

http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/wiki/Spinner_Turn_Count

Unit is Counts_Per_Revolution
Tempest=72
Arkanoid=486

Look at your link, see that table with spinners lists "Effective_Tooth_Count" and "Counts_Per_Revolution", but look down below and you will see Happ 2.25 inch trackball has "149.2" resolution and only 24 tooth encoder disc. How does that fit in your definition of what "resolution" is?

[BadMouth]

but look down below and you will see Happ 2.25 inch trackball has "149.2" resolution and only 24 tooth encoder disc. How does that fit in your definition of what "resolution" is?

you left out 2.25 inch ball, 0.362 inch roller

Count Per Revolution of the trackball, not the encoder wheel.
It's done the same way for the steering wheels that have gearing.

Could you explain how the term "temporal" applies here?

[gamuhar]

you left out 2.25 inch ball, 0.362 inch roller

Count Per Revolution of the trackball, not the encoder wheel.
It's done the same way for the steering wheels that have gearing.

That's right, we also left out "multiplier" thing, sampling rate of the device, pulling rate of the game, pulling rate of OS, sampling rate in MAME, sensitivity setting in MAME, and game screen resolution. Plus, we do not have to match rotations 1:1, that's only really necessary for 720 Degrees, but all the other games you can compensate and get used to other ratios, just like you can play all those games with your PC mouse even though rotation ratio, resolution and sampling is very different than what actual PCB use.

So there could be some "transmission", and Happ optical rotary could in fact use 72 or more counts per revolution? I'm just asking. I don't see any info about it, that's all. Perhaps my home-made optical rotary is much better than Happ's, I made it out of PC mouse.



Used this tutorial as a guide: http://www.trimoor.com/rotary_joystick/

Could you explain how the term "temporal" applies here?

As in "divided in time". Like frame-rate of 60fps or audio sampling at 11kHz is also "temporal resolution". It applies to pulling and sampling rate of the spinner device, OS and that in MAME. Counts per revolution don't mean much if you can not sample or pull them at sufficient rate. Real resolution here is combination of both, temporal and spatial, but the real practical limit is temporal, because it's 'serial signal' and thus encoded in time, while spatial resolution only forces you to make wider rotations in order to move the same distance which human machine can compensate well as it is relative motion. There is complex interaction with several unknown bottlenecks and specifics of each game, all I am saying here (to Xiaou) is that you really have to try it out before jumping into conclusions.

[Xiaou2]

There is no way you are replicating the accuracy of an Arkanoid spinner, with a happs rotary encoder.  I dont care what bottle necks you have.  The game is designed to be super high-resolution.

 If you change the game, so that every Nth click = 20 pixels of movement.. you are effectively cheating.  Your bat will be jumping maybe 20 pixels per click instead of 1 per click.  This changes the entire dynamic of the game and gameplay.

 You will never have as much control and accuracy, as a spinner that has a 480 tick count per revolution, as an optical disc on a happs rotary, that has 20 ticks at most per revolution.   Thats 24x the resolution (if my match is correct, and Im not great at math).  That means, for every single tick of the rotary... you would have 24 ticks on the Arkanoid spinner.  24 degrees of accurate lost at every single tick or degree of rotation... is a LOT of loss.

 It like the difference between black and white tv @ 320x240...vs... full color hdtv @ 1920x1080.

 Theres no comparison.

[gamuhar]

There is no way you are replicating the accuracy of an Arkanoid spinner, with a happs rotary encoder.  I dont care what bottle necks you have.  The game is designed to be super high-resolution.

If the game is designed for super high resolution then that's exactly why you should care about bottlenecks I mentioned. Do you know what is the maximum resolution you can get through MAME?

If you change the game, so that every Nth click = 20 pixels of movement.. you are effectively cheating.  Your bat will be jumping maybe 20 pixels per click instead of 1 per click.  This changes the entire dynamic of the game and gameplay.

 You will never have as much control and accuracy, as a spinner that has a 480 tick count per revolution, as an optical disc on a happs rotary, that has 20 ticks at most per revolution.   Thats 24x the resolution (if my match is correct, and Im not great at math).  That means, for every single tick of the rotary... you would have 24 ticks on the Arkanoid spinner.  24 degrees of accurate lost at every single tick or degree of rotation... is a LOT of loss.

 It like the difference between black and white tv @ 320x240...vs... full color hdtv @ 1920x1080.

You still don't know ACTUAL resolution of Happ optical rotary?! It's 24 counts at least, not 20 at most.

So, are you saying 12-position rotary stick can do it better?

Theres no comparison.

I am not saying Happ optical rotary is competition for Arkanoid spinner, nor am I comparing them directly, you are doing that on your own. I am comparing optical rotary with 12-position mechanical rotary joystick in relation to all the spinner and rotary games, and again my point is not that you should replace mechanical rotary or Arkanoid spinner with optical rotary stick, but if you can put only one joystick on a cabinet then optical rotary will make the most of the games playable, that's all I am saying and we already agreed.

It's about playing Arkanoid by rotating optical rotary stick
- VS - moving the stick left-right or using 12-position rotary.

Even if it was bad as you assume optical rotary still wins, yes?

[Xiaou2]

This thread was never about playing spinner games with a rotary stick.  That was YOUR off-shoot.

 The thread, was about having good Rotary control, for Rotary games.

 As for the rest, it means nothing.  I seriously doubt there is any bottleneck in the reading of Arkanoid.  And if there is.. Shame on mame.   However, that does not change the mechanical facts.

 Nor does it change the fact, that most people Prefer a click-lock Rotary on click-lock Rotary games.  Yes, you CAN play them with an optical... but... it does not feel the same.  Doesnt control the same... and thus, many people will never desire to use an optical rotary, even IF they could use an optical rotary to use as a "half-butt" all-in-one-controller-solution.

 I couldnt even use my Rotaries for fighting games, because the sticks just are not anywhere near as smooth and good as a happs comp stick.   Nor could I play Robotron with Either of those.  It has to be Wico 8way leaf sticks.   

 There are those of us who would rather never play a game, unless it has the PROPER controller.  To us, its like trying to play a guitar thats out of tune (and wont stay in tune)  ,and missing a string.  Yes, you can play that beat up guitar... but, its simply not the same... nor is it satisfying, to many of us.

[CoryBee]

Second that last part Xiaou. 

[gamuhar]

This thread was never about playing spinner games with a rotary stick.  That was YOUR off-shoot.

Yes, it's interesting bonus you can do with optical spinners. Did you know about it before?

As for the rest, it means nothing.  I seriously doubt there is any bottleneck in the reading of Arkanoid.  And if there is.. Shame on mame.   However, that does not change the mechanical facts.

Refresh rate determines how often a game can pull input updates from MAME, so usually 60Hz. Facts change the moment you plug your controller into USB adapter instead of actual PCB, which does not mean you still can not get good results, but it also means with fast enough spin you will be hitting all kinds of bottlenecks.

Nor does it change the fact, that most people Prefer a click-lock Rotary on click-lock Rotary games.  Yes, you CAN play them with an optical... but... it does not feel the same.  Doesnt control the same... and thus, many people will never desire to use an optical rotary, even IF they could use an optical rotary to use as a "half-butt" all-in-one-controller-solution.

You can play, and that is what answers mytymaus007's question. Why are you telling us about your personal preferences if we already agreed that's for everyone to figure out for themselves? Shouldn't you be trying it out now and maybe you would see it's not that bad as you imagine?

I couldnt even use my Rotaries for fighting games, because the sticks just are not anywhere near as smooth and good as a happs comp stick.   Nor could I play Robotron with Either of those.  It has to be Wico 8way leaf sticks.   

Noooo, no Robotron and damn Wico leafs!! You told your Robotron story at least 100,000 times on these forums. Oh god, oh god... if you are up there, please help us, Superman!! What rotaries you have, mechanical? You need to try Happ optical rotary if you want to have opinion about it, until then all you have are just your assumption. Even if you are right that's a lot of assumptions, it's unnecessary. Much more fun is actually trying out stuff, plus you get to know the facts.

There are those of us who would rather never play a game, unless it has the PROPER controller.  To us, its like trying to play a guitar thats out of tune (and wont stay in tune)  ,and missing a string.  Yes, you can play that beat up guitar... but, its simply not the same... nor is it satisfying, to many of us.

Proper, yes. Authentic, not necessarily. What's "proper" is a function of personal preferences and abilities. Earlier you said playing Star Wars with a mouse or analog joystick is "ok". Again, my point is not that you should replace mechanical rotary or Arkanoid spinner with optical rotary stick, but those are BONUS things you can do with optical rotary if you already have it. I don't see any real disagreement between us anymore, you are now talking about your personal preferences and I have nothing to say about it, so I think our argument is over. All I can say to you now is just - try it out, it does not bite!

[Xiaou2]

Yes, it's interesting bonus you can do with optical spinners. Did you know about it before?

 Its not really all that interesting.  Its very basic stuff really.  Ive Managed arcades, so Im very familiar with arcade hardware: Optics, Pots, gearing / mechanical, and electrical... As well as PC interfaces.  Ive pretty much seen it all, played it all, and fixed it all.

Facts change the moment you plug your controller into USB adapter instead of actual PCB

 Im not saying I couldnt be mistaken... but USB2 is 480 Mbit/s (60 MB/s), and I have a feeling that even an Arkanoid spinner wont even come close to missing a beat at that rate of data transfer.

What rotaries you have, mechanical? You need to try Happ optical rotary if you want to have opinion about it, until then all you have are just your assumption. Even if you are right that's a lot of assumptions, it's unnecessary. Much more fun is actually trying out stuff, plus you get to know the facts.

 I have both Optical Rotaries, and LS-30 click stop rotaries, Starwars yoke, Analog and digital trigger sticks, Wico Leaf sticks, Happs comps, 360 degree arcade steering wheels, 270 deg. arcade wheels, arcade analog pedal sets, Race Drivin 5 way balltop shifters, micro and leaf buttons, Discs of Tron spinner, Sinistar optical 49 way, and countless other controllers.   

 (in addition to a few real arcade & pinball machines)

 Im very aware and experienced in the Arcade Controls department.  Ive even built my own arcade controllers from scratch.

 You should never Assume anything.

[AGarv]

you left out 2.25 inch ball, 0.362 inch roller

Count Per Revolution of the trackball, not the encoder wheel.
It's done the same way for the steering wheels that have gearing.

That's right, we also left out "multiplier" thing, sampling rate of the device, pulling rate of the game, pulling rate of OS, sampling rate in MAME, sensitivity setting in MAME, and game screen resolution. Plus, we do not have to match rotations 1:1, that's only really necessary for 720 Degrees, but all the other games you can compensate and get used to other ratios, just like you can play all those games with your PC mouse even though rotation ratio, resolution and sampling is very different than what actual PCB use.

So there could be some "transmission", and Happ optical rotary could in fact use 72 or more counts per revolution? I'm just asking. I don't see any info about it, that's all. Perhaps my home-made optical rotary is much better than Happ's, I made it out of PC mouse.



Used this tutorial as a guide: http://www.trimoor.com/rotary_joystick/

Could you explain how the term "temporal" applies here?

As in "divided in time". Like frame-rate of 60fps or audio sampling at 11kHz is also "temporal resolution". It applies to pulling and sampling rate of the spinner device, OS and that in MAME. Counts per revolution don't mean much if you can not sample or pull them at sufficient rate. Real resolution here is combination of both, temporal and spatial, but the real practical limit is temporal, because it's 'serial signal' and thus encoded in time, while spatial resolution only forces you to make wider rotations in order to move the same distance which human machine can compensate well as it is relative motion. There is complex interaction with several unknown bottlenecks and specifics of each game, all I am saying here (to Xiaou) is that you really have to try it out before jumping into conclusions.

Wow, thanks for posting that tutorial, I can't believe I haven't seen it before!  It even mods a Happ Competition, my favorite joystick of all time.

BTW from a purely rotary game perspective, the original mechanicals with stop-points are much more authentic.  I used to play Ikari Warriors a fair amount, and the stop-points definitely are part of your higher level game play.  Given that you can't really do anything will rotary sticks well except play about a half dozen specific games, I'd try to make the mechanical rotaries work!

[mytymaus007]

Yes, it's interesting bonus you can do with optical spinners. Did you know about it before?

 Its not really all that interesting.  Its very basic stuff really.  Ive Managed arcades, so Im very familiar with arcade hardware: Optics, Pots, gearing / mechanical, and electrical... As well as PC interfaces.  Ive pretty much seen it all, played it all, and fixed it all.

Facts change the moment you plug your controller into USB adapter instead of actual PCB

 Im not saying I couldnt be mistaken... but USB2 is 480 Mbit/s (60 MB/s), and I have a feeling that even an Arkanoid spinner wont even come close to missing a beat at that rate of data transfer.

What rotaries you have, mechanical? You need to try Happ optical rotary if you want to have opinion about it, until then all you have are just your assumption. Even if you are right that's a lot of assumptions, it's unnecessary. Much more fun is actually trying out stuff, plus you get to know the facts.

 I have both Optical Rotaries, and LS-30 click stop rotaries, Starwars yoke, Analog and digital trigger sticks, Wico Leaf sticks, Happs comps, 360 degree arcade steering wheels, 270 deg. arcade wheels, arcade analog pedal sets, Race Drivin 5 way balltop shifters, micro and leaf buttons, Discs of Tron spinner, Sinistar optical 49 way, and countless other controllers.   

 (in addition to a few real arcade & pinball machines)

 Im very aware and experienced in the Arcade Controls department.  Ive even built my own arcade controllers from scratch.

 You should never Assume anything.

Nice im glad someone has experience with these damm Optical Rotaries What i was looking for is how are for the original mechanical rotary gmes Can you use the optical as you would the mechanical sticks. The reason i want to know is i already have the mechanical rotaries and they hurt my hand so i dont even bother playing those games im assuming if the Optical Rotaries spin smoother then click click mechanical stick that would be wonderful. i guess I didnt state that when i started this thread!!!

[Xiaou2]

As Ive said, the opticals will work.  However, you may end up spending more time trying to adjust your character to face the correct direction than you really want.   This means you will have slower reaction times, much worse accuracy, and get killed a lot more often.

The opticals are easy to turn, so there is little fatigue.

 However, the Octagonal top on the mechanicals, does make it better for turning, than the standard happs bat top.  I cant imagine why happs chose to use the bat top on a mechanical rotary.  You dont have any leverage to turn with a bat top.

[Gray_Area]

An here I thought I'd solved things.

[gamuhar]

Im not saying I couldnt be mistaken... but USB2 is 480 Mbit/s (60 MB/s), and I have a feeling that even an Arkanoid spinner wont even come close to missing a beat at that rate of data transfer.

You have a bad habit of pulling a single sentence from a paragraph and misinterpreting it out of the context. I was not referring to USB but only as an entry point to a PC/MAME, and to my previous sentence you omitted where I said: "Refresh rate determines how often a game can pull input updates from MAME, so usually 60Hz."

I have both Optical Rotaries, and...

 You should never Assume anything.

I know your story, we are talking only about optical rotary here and if you indeed have it you obviously never used it for anything.

I don't have to assume, you made it quite clear with your statements you have no real experience with actually using this joystick.

As Ive said, the opticals will work.  However, you may end up spending more time trying to adjust your character to face the correct direction than you really want.   This means you will have slower reaction times, much worse accuracy, and get killed a lot more often.

You never tried any of it, you would not know. And it shows.

720 Degrees is the only game where you need to adjust your character to face a certain direction.

You do not need to adjust anything in order to play mechanical rotary games with optical rotary joystick. Rotation ratio does not have to be 1:1, as I said several times. Rotation ration you adjust according to your particular handle and your personal preferences, but since the precision of mechanical rotary games is 30 degrees that leaves so much room that any settings would do just fine without compromising precision at all.

We already cleared up optical rotary has the same speed and precision as mechanical rotary for rotary games, its actual precision is twice that of mechanical rotary, at least. There is nothing standing in a way of "reaction time" nor 30 degrees precision. Stop puking over this joystick if you can not take 5 minutes to actually try it out, it's ridiculous.

[Xiaou2]

Your not even worth my time.  You dont even understand the BASICS of mechanics, let alone anything else.

You dont have to have 1 to 1 accuracy with the dial, but... when you turn the dial, you are not going to immediately fact the exact direction you want to face.  This delay, could mean an easy loss of life.  The snap-lock will face the character immediately in the proper angle, with No delay, no fumbling, and no chance of Accidentally passing the angle you want.

Furthermore, when your trying to dodge bullets like mad... with an unrestricted optical, you might accidentally move your fire direction.. when you really dont intend to.. which could again spell your death.   A snap-locked controller will stay put, no matter what kind of movement you make with the stick.. and you can count on your fire always being in the correct angle, able to hit the bay guys with ease, Instantly.

Optical Rotaries have their purpose.  There are games which do use them, and no click-lock...nor any other controller could match their functionality.   Which is why I OWN two of them.

[PL1]

An here I thought I'd solved things.

I thought you came up with a good answer about grinding down or reshaping the handles.

Do you think the Plasti-Dip Multipurpose Rubber Coating that Ace Hardware carries would make a good outer coating once you grind /shape them?


As far as a solution for the thread itself:

1. Convince both of the dueling posters to actually be in search of a solution and/or an accurate answer, instead of just one of them.   
2. Remember the wisdom of the internet.   


Scott

[gamuhar]

Your not even worth my time.  You dont even understand the BASICS of mechanics, let alone anything else.

Heh. It's enough for me to have optical rotary and spend five minutes to try it out. That's all it takes.

Have _you actually tried it?

...when you turn the dial, you are not going to immediately fact the exact direction you want to face.

Because?

So you still have not tried it. I see what you thinking and I'm laughing. There is no delay, it's HOW MUCH you turn the knob, just like with mechanical rotary. Turn it enough and the character will SNAP instantly to a new position, just like with mechanical rotary. Rotation resolution is built in any such game itself, character can only take one of 12 predefined orientation. No delay, do you understand?

Furthermore, when your trying to dodge bullets like mad... with an unrestricted optical, you might accidentally move your fire direction.. when you really dont intend to.. which could again spell your death.   A snap-locked controller will stay put, no matter what kind of movement you make with the stick.. and you can count on your fire always being in the correct angle, able to hit the bay guys with ease, Instantly.

Have you actually tried it? I don't have any such problems. Your personal inabilities and preferences are out of the scope, you already agreed that's for everyone to figure out for themselves. Visual feedback and muscle memory are there to prevent what you describe, plus 30 degrees room for error. Unless you're too old, you probably just need some more practice and getting used to.

[gamuhar]

1. Convince both of the dueling posters to actually be in search of a solution and/or an accurate answer, instead of just one of them.   

I'm not sure which one am I supposed to be, but I am the only one around here so far who does have optical rotary joystick and actually talks about hands-on experience.

I'm simply reporting my observations.

I would not be posting here anymore if the goblin didn't open up the argument we already sorted out at the very beginning. What's his agenda to spit on something he has not even tried out... did Happ optical rotary kill his dog when he was a kid, or something?

[gamuhar]

Nice im glad someone has experience with these damm Optical Rotaries What i was looking for is how are for the original mechanical rotary gmes Can you use the optical as you would the mechanical sticks. The reason i want to know is i already have the mechanical rotaries and they hurt my hand so i dont even bother playing those games im assuming if the Optical Rotaries spin smoother then click click mechanical stick that would be wonderful. i guess I didnt state that when i started this thread!!!

If you listen to him you will miss to try out exactly what you are looking for.

Yes, you can use optical rotary joystick instead of mechanical in precisely the way you want it, without any loss of precision, without any movement delay, without exactly the thing that bothers you, and as a bonus you will also be able to play spinner games. Is that not advertised anywhere? Has no one spoke about it before?? Is there no one else with optical rotary around here?

However, this is Build Your Own Arcade Controls forum, so you should first consider to just make one yourself!! It's super easy, see the photo and link I posted above. You probably already have all the parts, you can build it in just a few hours, and you can use whatever 8-way joystick with whatever handle you want. Also, you can choose to hack-up high resolution mouse and so you get plenty of resolution to play not only Tempest but Arkanoid as well, and whatever other spinner games that poor mouse could play before its reincarnation.

[Xiaou2]

There is no delay, it's HOW MUCH you turn the knob, just like with mechanical rotary

 Distance = Delay

 If you have to turn a dial 3x more distance to make the character change angle.. then you have effectively lost TIME.
If you lose time, thats called a DELAY.   If you have a delay in a game, that can cased loss of life.


 A Rotary that Snaps, locks instantly into place, making the delay almost non-existent.

 
 Furthermore, yes, you Could make the sensitivity higher for the opticals, making almost no delay.  However, that would then
probably lead to the player accidentally going Past the intended direction.

 Even if you got the exact match for rotational distances between the two types of controllers,  Since the optical does not
snap lock into the exact positions... eventually you will lose or gain distances... which again, equates to lost time.

 
 Do some research on Joysticks, about 'Throw', 'Actuation', switch type, etc.  You will find that many people are very critical
about losses in control.  Shump players tend to use Japanese short throw sticks, because the travel to actuation is reduced, thus you get quicker response times.