The Complete Noob's First Project Thread - (No Theme/Name yet...)

[walterg74]

Hi im new to the forum and am really enjoying your project so far! Do it for that noobs haha, i started my forst project a couple of weeks ago so all the questions your asking are really helping me out! (y)

Thanks, I am glad you enjoy it and hope it's useful for when you do yours!

[walterg74]

Ok, so I just finished the forst coat of primer and letting it dry as I write this...

Didn't go as nice as I wished though, seems I need more experience with the can...

Can't seem to get a nice even coverage without etting some drips, and also if I spray too close of course it drips, and if I go too far it seems that I'm just wasting the whole thing to the air 

Any tips?

[Ond]

Ok, so I just finished the forst coat of primer and letting it dry as I write this...

Didn't go as nice as I wished though, seems I need more experience with the can...

Can't seem to get a nice even coverage without etting some drips, and also if I spray too close of course it drips, and if I go too far it seems that I'm just wasting the whole thing to the air 

Any tips?

Just a few things, to start with, make sure the surface you’re spraying is horizontal if possible, less drips due to gravity.
When starting out with a spray can, controlled bursts with fairly broad sweeping action works well.  Try to stay at about 20cm from the surface.  Hold the can at about a 45 degree angle to the work and sweep in about 30 cm arcs. 

Spray in controlled on-off again spraying sweeps to build up the primer/paint (same rules apply to paint) to a smooth wet surface.  Don't just hold the button down and spray and hope for the best.  Control the paint and watch it build up.  You should spray a few passes, wait a minute, and then repeat.  A regular wipe of the spray nozzle with a rag between passes minimises splattering.

It's better to just cover the work with a few layers, let dry sand lightly and repeat, than go in really thick on a single coat which takes much longer to dry properly.

A lumpy first coat is no big deal, when dry, just sand it back ( I covered all this in the steps previously posted BTW) to a smooth finish.  On flat surfaces use a sanding block to get a really flat finish or a mechanical sander.

200 Grit is a bit coarse, 350 would be better and give you more control over how much you strip back off.  Like I've said before, I work with 600 between layers of primer, that’s regardless of the final finish matt/satin/gloss you are trying to achieve.

With experience with the particular brand of spray can you are using, (they all vary with flow rate and spray quality) you can spray with longer controlled bursts and get a nice even result.  In general cheaper paints tend to apply more coarsely and splattery than quality paints which cost a bit more.  My point being, starting out with quality spray paint at least gives you more predictable, quality consistent results, which helps when learning.

[walterg74]

Just a few things, to start with, make sure the surface you’re spraying is horizontal if possible, less drips due to gravity.
When starting out with a spray can, controlled bursts with fairly broad sweeping action works well.  Try to stay at about 20cm from the surface.  Hold the can at about a 45 degree angle to the work and sweep in about 30 cm arcs. 

Spray in controlled on-off again spraying sweeps to build up the primer/paint (same rules apply to paint) to a smooth wet surface.  Don't just hold the button down and spray and hope for the best.  Control the paint and watch it build up.  You should spray a few passes, wait a minute, and then repeat.  A regular wipe of the spray nozzle with a rag between passes minimises splattering.

It's better to just cover the work with a few layers, let dry sand lightly and repeat, than go in really thick on a single coat which takes much longer to dry properly.

A lumpy first coat is no big deal, when dry, just sand it back ( I covered all this in the steps previously posted BTW) to a smooth finish.  On flat surfaces use a sanding block to get a really flat finish or a mechanical sander.

200 Grit is a bit coarse, 350 would be better and give you more control over how much you strip back off.  Like I've said before, I work with 600 between layers of primer, that’s regardless of the final finish matt/satin/gloss you are trying to achieve.

With experience with the particular brand of spray can you are using, (they all vary with flow rate and spray quality) you can spray with longer controlled bursts and get a nice even result.  In general cheaper paints tend to apply more coarsely and splattery than quality paints which cost a bit more.  My point being, starting out with quality spray paint at least gives you more predictable, quality consistent results, which helps when learning.

Ok, so I started sanding that coat, using a 400 then, and left it pretty smooth.

I then started to put on the second coat, and I wanted to follow your advice on horizontal surfaces, so I just did the CP, the back panel, and one of the sides and the opposite inside of the cabinet laying it on the side.

This is more time consuming as I now have to wait for it to dry (although it's fast drying paint) and then turn it to do the other side, to finally in a third step do the top and other miscellaneous... 

But I guess that will give me a better finish, do you agree? Do you do something like that, or do you use a different method for getting your paint evenly spread and with no dripping or the least possible?

One thing though I of course ran out of paint...  One can is not enough.... So I have to go in a little while to get another to complete the priming.

Now this is not so bad, but it's a small cab... When I do the big one, there's no way I can use spray cans or I'll go broke.... So roller or brush? Pros/cons? Won't the brush leave traces of the bristles?

Ok, I'll write later today when I finish priming and with a few pics if possible.

L8r!! 

[walterg74]

Ok, posting back... 

So went to buy the second can of primer, and just applied it.

This is what the cab looked like after applying the 1st primer coat:



After that I sanded with a 600 grit paper, and then today I just applied the second coat.

This is the cab just primed for the second time and drying:





Here are some pics of the CP also primed twice (lighting's not very good):





This is the first time I do this, so of course it's not perfect, and a drip-drip here, a drip-drip there, but nothing that can't be polished up as we go along with coats I guess, plus the fact I know it won't turn out perfect for my first time, so I'm just trying to do it the best I can, hoping to improve each time.

Regarding the paint, I decided to go along and buy spray cans for this small cab too.

I was about to buy a Krylon can that said "for mdf/melamine", but the store guy said they're the same paint just branded different, so saving 3 bucks (same brand though), and I got this:



The sticker means "semi-gloss". I decided for this since I thought matte was too dull, and glossy was just to bright for my taste, proner to fingerprints, etc...
We'll see how it turns out...

I also learned that hear I'm better off not buying at our local "home depot", since the paint that was $50 (almost $10 us dollars) was $35 (about $7 us dollars) at my friendly neighbourhood paint shop.... Don't know if it's the same in the US regarding stores, but I-d say a 30% difference is worth considering...

Anyway, appreciate any feedback/input, and I guess my next pics will be of the first coat of paint...
 

[walterg74]

Ok, need some help from the pros.... 

While this did not appear when I primed (since it looked amazingly smooth), after I applied the first coat of paint I look at the results, and I clearly see not a smooth surface but some marks below are clearly seen...

No doubt this is due to my poor hand sanding, yes? And I'm looking at the sanding marks?

If so, can you give me some tips to fix this?  should I start with the wet sanding now to make it easier to correct, or is it the same?

Would it help if I just went ahead and used an orbital sander? 

[Ond]

I'm posting a series of video tutorials (3 altogether)  that cover these very questions.  The first one is up in my my project thread now, the next will be later today, in them I'm going from raw plywood to ultra gloss finish, check em out.

[walterg74]

I'm posting a series of video tutorials (3 altogether)  that cover these very questions.  The first one is up in my my project thread now, the next will be later today, in them I'm going from raw plywood to ultra gloss finish, check em out.

And Ond for the save! (as usual...  )

Thanks, I'll check it out before continuing with the rest of the coats!!

[steveh]

Walter, its been great reading your progress.  im about to go read your post on building basics.  I have a cab im working on, and im going to start my own thread soon.  I find this thread extremely helpful helps fill the gaps.  I cant wait to see how this turns out.

As for your question about brush vs rollers.  a high quality roller is the way to go. 

[walterg74]

Walter, its been great reading your progress.  im about to go read your post on building basics.  I have a cab im working on, and im going to start my own thread soon.  I find this thread extremely helpful helps fill the gaps.  I cant wait to see how this turns out.

As for your question about brush vs rollers.  a high quality roller is the way to go.

Thanks Steve! That was the whole point, not only to get tips (which I could asking in any thread) but also to document what I did for others that are new to this like me.

Thanks for the rolle/brush tip, which I will use when I finish this and jump into buildon the "real" normal sized one

Hope to see your thread soon!

 

[Bengaz]

Hi, great progress and good photos.

Im about to start my control panel but have a question.

How are you going to fix/secure the joystick. Thought you would have routered the top of the CP not the bottom, then applied th 2mm cover over that. Your only left with 6mm of MDF to screw to doing it your way which I would have thought would be very inadequate or am I getting it wrong?

Also, how are you going to physically switch the 4/8 way joystick?

[walterg74]

Hi, great progress and good photos.

Im about to start my control panel but have a question.

How are you going to fix/secure the joystick. Thought you would have routered the top of the CP not the bottom, then applied th 2mm cover over that. Your only left with 6mm of MDF to screw to doing it your way which I would have thought would be very inadequate or am I getting it wrong?

Also, how are you going to physically switch the 4/8 way joystick?

Thanks!

Well, there's basically 2 ways, top mount or bottom mount, which is what I was doing, but funny you should mention it because it seems you're rught and I didn't do it correctly, since I am finding that even though I bought short screws, they don't have any "grip" to get a tight hold on this, so now I don't know what to do!!!!

Can someone help/comment on how I could fix this? The only thing I can think of so far is to just encase the damn thin in bondo/putty if that's any good 

Regarding the joystick switch, I don-t plan on switching very often for this cab, so I don't mind if I eventually want to to just open the back cover. For when I build the larger one, I'll propbably get one of those controls that can be switched from the outside, using the control itself.


HELPPPPPP!!!!! 

[PL1]

HELPPPPPP!!!!! 

Ok, first step - What type of joystick are you using?  If it is an LS-32/Zippyy short shaft,  you'll have a lot more trouble trying to undermount than if you have a long shaft version or any of the other sticks designed for use in a wood panel.

To tell which LS-32/Zippyy shaft version you have, measure this way.  The distance from the bottom of the threads to the shoulder of the pivot is ~30mm on the short shaft and ~45mm on the long shaft.  Remove dust washer and balltop to measure.


Scott

[walterg74]

HELPPPPPP!!!!! 

Ok, first step - What type of joystick are you using?  If it is an LS-32/Zippyy short shaft,  you'll have a lot more trouble trying to undermount than if you have a long shaft version or any of the other sticks designed for use in a wood panel.

To tell which LS-32/Zippyy shaft version you have, measure this way.  The distance from the bottom of the threads to the shoulder of the pivot is ~30mm on the short shaft and ~45mm on the long shaft.  Remove dust washer and balltop to measure.


Scott

I scott, thanks for your reply!

I actually posted a pic on page 1, pot 32 I believe, does that help?  Also as you can see on a previous post where i placed a pick of the CP, I already routed outfr om the bottom and thats my problem.  Are those pics enought for younto recommend?

Thanks!! 

[PL1]

I actually posted a pic on page 1, pot 32 I believe, does that help?  Also as you can see on a previous post where i placed a pick of the CP, I already routed outfr om the bottom and thats my problem.

Found them!  Missed them earlier in the pic-alanche.     

Joystick


Routed CP


Looks like the joystick has about 1" from the plate to the battop.

The routed CP looks like you have less than 3/8", which isn't deep enough for the inserts, but there is a way around that.

The attached diagram --not drawn to scale-- shows how you can make a metal support bar(green)and wood block(blue) for under the joystick/mounting plate(gray) and attach it to the underside of the CP(tan) using threaded inserts. (red)  Leave a path for the wires coming out of the microswitch (yellow) as shown unless you can mount the support bar (green) closer to the CP top than the microswitch like in the second attachment.  Can't quite tell how much clearance you have. 

You'll need two of these support bars -- one across the lower right and one across the upper left of this picture.


Scott

[walterg74]

Ok, sorry for the abscence but had a lot of stuff going on, still did several things on the cab, but before that...

@PL1: Scott, thanks a lot for the above! Now let me see if I understand, since this is the last major item I need to fix that's really important...

From the plate, to where the battop starts what you said is about right, it's about 30mm of shaft approximately.

Regarding the metal "bars" tohold everything, do you mean something like this?



That's what I understand the "green" would be.

Now what I don't get is what exactly the threaded inserts are or why I need them...

What I planned to do (if I got your green bar idea correctly), is to get 2 pieces of wood of the size I "ate away" from the control pannel (about 9mm), rectangular shape, and place them over the sides of the metal plate as if filling the hole.
Then get the two metal strips and drill 2 holes on each side, from the control square outwards (the red things in my lame picture touch-up right above), and tighten it to the CP, holding everything in place.

Wouldn't that do? From the top of the CP piece, up to where the microswitch contacs are, I have about a good 15mm, so lots of space to cable it.

Can you share your thoughts or elaborate??

Thanks!! 

[walterg74]

Ok, while I wait for the solution to the Joystick dilemma.... let's continue with some progres...

Last we saw was the priming and about to paint.

So I went on and painted/sanded/painted/sanded, etc... for a total of 3 coats. Results were not the best but for a first time I decided it was acceptable for me and called it a day. The pics are not very good, and it actually looks nicer in person, but here are some anyway without anything added:



For the artwork, at least for now, I just decied to use a multi/character sideart found at the library, and the classic MAME logo.  Had it done at a local place, and this is how it looks so far:





And the marquee...





Then came the monitor, which was silver bezeled but not anymore after removing it and painting it a little black...



And in the cab...



I then tried to see if it was working and all after all my messing around... 



Next, testing MAME just for kicks....

 

[walterg74]

Ok, continuing with the testing, rotating on the laptop to see how the display showed games...



And some side shots...





Ok, so cool But my machine's empty inside... 

So... since this will be running old games, no need for much power, I wanted to use a spare mother/cpu/mem combo I had lying around, but there was a problem... it wouldnot fit! (standard ATX size) so... had to go hunting for one, buy one...

Long story short, I ended up buying this old ITX Pentium 4 combo.  ITX, Pentium 4 2.8Ghz, 1GB RAM.  Not a power house, but for running Ms. Pac-Man and Donkey Kong? No sweat...



With this small size factor PSU to go....




Ok what else...? Ah! I needed something to hold the marquee... Long story short again, I bought a long strip of black angle PVC, which for this short length and the small marquee size is more than enough! Already painted, easy to work and it won't lose the colour... Plus, one side is smaller than the other as to take less away from the marquee showing...






Here's a pic fitting the components:



I Put feet on the Mobo, but still, didn't know how to get it to not move around, so here's a little rudimentary holding, just for now....



Ok, that's all I got so far! I am currently installing XP on this, and while I am at it, can you recommend a nice frontend for this?? Nice looking but not too powerfull in terms of needed resources, and remember I'm only going to run old arcade games here....

Also, how do you guys set your machines up? Change the XP boot screen? Tweak things for faster bootup? Tips? Tricks?

Almost there...

Thanks!!!   

[walterg74]

Hey Scott! Just quoting you to draw attention so you can answer my question on your previous comment 

Also, anyone have suggestions for the frontend?? I started experimenting with hyperspin until I realized it doesn't support vertical setups

I'm toying around with mamewah and Mala, but don't like them 100%... anything I'm missing or any better options for a vertical cab 

[PL1]

Hey Scott! Just quoting you to draw attention so you can answer my question on your previous comment 

D'Oh!  Sorry, got wrapped up in finishing another project at that time and I must not have scrolled up far enough to see this earlier question:

Regarding the metal "bars" tohold everything, do you mean something like this?



That's what I understand the "green" would be.

You've got the right location(directly over the hole in the joystick mounting plate), but you'll want the metal braces to be about an inch longer so you are solidly into the MDF like on my diagram.

Now what I don't get is what exactly the threaded inserts are or why I need them...

Two reasons for the inserts;

1. Regular wood screw threads don't have enough surface area to hold solidly in MDF and will work loose over time as you push and pull on the joystick.

2. Removing and reinstalling wood screws in MDF to work on your panel will chew up the fibers and strip out the screw hole.

The inserts have a wider, flatter area on the outer threads and you can remove and reinstall the machine screws hundreds of times without damaging or stripping the surrounding MDF fibers.

Also, I like to design/build things that I can field strip and reassemble whenever needed.

What I planned to do (if I got your green bar idea correctly), is to get 2 pieces of wood of the size I "ate away" from the control pannel (about 9mm), rectangular shape, and place them over the sides of the metal plate as if filling the hole.
Then get the two metal strips and drill 2 holes on each side, from the control square outwards (the red things in my lame picture touch-up right above), and tighten it to the CP, holding everything in place.

Wouldn't that do? From the top of the CP piece, up to where the microswitch contacs are, I have about a good 15mm, so lots of space to cable it.

Sounds like you've got it.  I only used 3 inserts per side because I figured that the two screws between the lower inserts would only have to be tightened once.

Once you have your filler piece (blue) cut to the proper thickness, attach it to the metal piece (green), then mark/drill/insert/attach that to the joystick mounting plate(gray) and mark/drill the holes for the lower two inserts (red).

Hope this helps.


Scott

[walterg74]

Yep, helps lots, thanks! 

I think I got it niw, I'll try to finish this in the weekend. The only question is if they sell inserts in this pos country I live in... 

Guess I'll find out tomorrow....

[PL1]

Yep, helps lots, thanks! 

I think I got it niw, I'll try to finish this in the weekend. The only question is if they sell inserts in this pos country I live in... 

Guess I'll find out tomorrow....

Here are some pictures from GGG and Ultimarc.  You may want to print them to show the people at the hardware store exactly what you're looking for.






Scott

[walterg74]

Yep, helps lots, thanks! 

I think I got it niw, I'll try to finish this in the weekend. The only question is if they sell inserts in this pos country I live in... 

Guess I'll find out tomorrow....

Here are some pictures from GGG and Ultimarc.  You may want to print them to show the people at the hardware store exactly what you're looking for.






Scott

Wow... Is that service or is that service? 

One last question... The screws I use are the "auto screwin" ones that start etting into the wood as you screw them. For these inserts how do you get them into the wood and to stay in it nice and ight? Is there a pre-hole or something I don't see/understand?

[PL1]

One last question... The screws I use are the "auto screwin" ones that start etting into the wood as you screw them. For these inserts how do you get them into the wood and to stay in it nice and ight? Is there a pre-hole or something I don't see/understand?

Installation directions from GGG:

Can be used in Plywood, MDF and other wood panels of at least 10mm (.400") in thickness. Kit comes with 4 inserts and mated screws per joystick and one installation tool per hardware kit.

Not Included, but required:

Drill Bits - 1/8" (pilot) and 5/16"
Drill (Hand or Press)
Marker or tape to gauge drill depth
Philips Head Screwdriver
Joysticks

Installation is simple. Mark your holes, using the joystick base as a template. Then drill a pilot hole to keep the large bit from wandering. Control the depth by marking the desired depth on the drill bit with a marker, or by creating a "stop" by wrapping the bit tightly with tape at the desired distance from the end of the bit. Care should be taken to drill the holes as straight and true as possible. Align the insert with the hole and screw it straight into the hole. Do not overtighten! When all inserts are installed, just attach the joystick base to the panel using the supplied screws.

*** Make sure that you select the right size drill bit for the inserts that you get.  ***


Scott