Karate Champ move instructions

[RetroBorg]

Does anybody have a scan or something that has the Karate Champ move instructions on it?

If so can I have a copy?

Thanks in anticipation.

Retro

[GSXRMovistar]

Do you require the graphic or just the move info?

If its the moves then look here, www.gamefaqs.com/coinop/arcade/game/3929.html

You can get instructions/cheats/help for pretty much every game from this site.

GSXR.

[Captain Rotundo]

http://www.arcadeflyers.com/?page=flyerdb&subpage=flyer&id=2677&image=1

www.arcadeflyers.com is a very nice and useful resource.

[Captain Rotundo]

If for no other reason than you get to see ads for games that promote the profitability and not the game play.  Its always great to see how things are marketed to the middle man and ot the consumer

[MaximRecoil]

I can still step up to a Karate Champ machine today and instinctively remember all of the moves from when I was good at it back in '84. That was the first arcade game that I ever got good at. In fact, that is one of the few Mame games that I actually want to built a dedicated control panel for. I would like to have the original joysticks (despite their inherent crapiness) if I could find some. Not just any joystick would work (for feel anyway), those arcade joysticks on a Karate Champ Vs. machine barely moved. They took a beating too and they didn't like it. Most of the machines that I have played on, when you pulled both joysticks down, the control panel would start to come with it and you could also see the accordion shaped whitish plastic boot exposed near the base of the sticks on the heavily worn games.

[Dartful Dodger]

...you could also see the accordion shaped whitish plastic boot exposed near the base of the sticks on the heavily worn games.

Karate Champ is and will always be my favorite fighting game, because of it, my cabinet will have two joysticks for each player. I'm designing the layout after Frostillicus' panel (making the two inside joysticks topfire is an excellent idea), but I'll be adding a track ball between them.

I'd like to replace the disk that covers the hole for the joystick with an accordion boot.  It's the gear head in me, I want the sticks to look like shifters, were can I find them?  I was going to look at an auto parts store, but is there boot made for this?

RetroBorg, thanks for the added idea, I'm going to create a Karate Champ move instructions for my monitor bevel, I don't care if it looks authentic though, Since my mame cabinet wont look anything like the Karate Champ one.

And thank you GSXRMovistar, and Captain Rotundo, for the Champ links.

[RetroBorg]

Thanks guys for helping me out, the moves on the flyer is exactly what I was looking for, the other link was also good for tip and points scored as well. If anyone has a better quality scan of instructions than this one please let me know.

[MaximRecoil]

It just occurred to me that the joysticks on the Karate Champ Vs. machine had a similar feel to Atari 2600 joysticks; short, stiff, mushy throw. A pair of 2600 sticks side by side and firmly mounted somehow to a board would make a pretty decent (and cheap) Karate Champ control panel (not for a MAME cabinet but just for a stand alone panel). Not sure how you would interface them to a PC although I have heard that 2600 joysticks will work on a Sega Genesis and I'm sure that someone somewhere has connected a Genesis controller to a PC before. A USB converter would probably be too much to hope for though...

I don't know why they used such cheesy joysticks for the Karate Champ Vs. machine, they didn't even have a metal shaft, just white plastic with a black plastic covering over them if I remember right...the whole mechanism seemed to be extremely similar to the 2600 joystick. They didn't hold up very well in the arcades. Still, the game doesn't seem right without them.

[paigeoliver]

Karate Champ uses 4-way joysticks, don't forget that, an 8-way stick is not suitable.

Atari 2600 joysticks can be rewired fairly easily and attached to your I-Pac, but those are 8-way, and Karate Champ is 4-way.

[Howard_Casto]

Karate Champ is and will always be my favorite fighting game, because of it, my cabinet will have two joysticks for each player. I'm designing the layout after Frostillicus' panel (making the two inside joysticks topfire is an excellent idea), but I'll be adding a track ball between them.

I mean no disrespect to the karate champ fans out there but kc is a fighting game like super mario bros 1 is a 3d adventure game.  Do you fight yes?  Is it sophisticated enough to be called a "fighter" along with games like street fighter 2 and mortal kombat?  Probably not.  


I have a great deal of respect for dataeast classics and fans who play them.  However, making dedicated panels just for karate champ is a little scary to me.  It's kinda like making a dedicated panel for pong.  Sure pong is the ultimate classic, but come on, it's pong people.  

The only reason I bring it up is because 4 sticks and a trackball sound like it could get really crowded, which is a bad thing.  KC plays really well with a stick and buttons and the nes port that I grew up with actually used that method.  Personally I preferred it over the two sticks.  

[paigeoliver]

Karate Champ is and will always be my favorite fighting game, because of it, my cabinet will have two joysticks for each player. I'm designing the layout after Frostillicus' panel (making the two inside joysticks topfire is an excellent idea), but I'll be adding a track ball between them.

It's kinda like making a dedicated panel for pong.  Sure pong is the ultimate classic, but come on, it's pong people.  

I am making an ENTIRE machine for Pong. Sure it is PONG, but a lot of people remember Pong and will play that, even though they won't play anything else. My Pong machine won't be Mame though, using a real Pong console and a television.

By the way. A Pong control panel is the single cheapest control panel to make (other than maybe one for Laserdisc Badlands, which only has one button).

To make a Pong panel you need.

1 Analog gameport joystick ( a cheap one).
2 Matching knobs to fit on the pots out of the joystick.
Buttons are optional (real Pong didn't have any, my machine will have a reset button and a serve button).

Or, to make a real Pong Machine you need.

One used arcade cabinet.
One fully working Pong Console (many brands available on ebay cheaply, go for the clones, as they are not collectable like the Atari and Sears brand ones are).
One television (13" to 19").
A few pushbuttons and perhaps switches. (Depends on what exactly your console can do, and if you want some of the options to be switchable from the panel).
Some soldering skills.

Advanced builders might want to get a Pong Kit, which is a kit to build your own Pong console, I believe they run around $20, but you still need to buy more stuff when you go this route.

[MaximRecoil]

Karate Champ uses 4-way joysticks, don't forget that, an 8-way stick is not suitable.

Atari 2600 joysticks can be rewired fairly easily and attached to your I-Pac, but those are 8-way, and Karate Champ is 4-way.

They may only register 4 ways but there is nothing restricting them physically to 4 way movement like on a Pac-Man game (or if there is you would never know it because of their extremely short and mushy throw no matter what direction that you go with them). You can move them equal amounts in all directions. They feel amazingly similar to 2600 joysticks with their movements.

Of course if the genuine article was easy to come by (is it?) that would be better but something like a Happs Super or Wico leaf would be worse than an Atari 2600 joystick; those feel nothing like the joysticks on the Karate Champ Vs. machine. The Atari joystick feels exactly like the Karate Champ Vs. joysticks with its movements, the only problem is the shape of the handle which of course is quite different. I could deal with that though, the actual feel of the movement is more important to me than whether or not the handle had a ball shape on top or not.

[MaximRecoil]

Karate Champ is and will always be my favorite fighting game, because of it, my cabinet will have two joysticks for each player. I'm designing the layout after Frostillicus' panel (making the two inside joysticks topfire is an excellent idea), but I'll be adding a track ball between them.

I mean no disrespect to the karate champ fans out there but kc is a fighting game like super mario bros 1 is a 3d adventure game.  Do you fight yes?  Is it sophisticated enough to be called a "fighter" along with games like street fighter 2 and mortal kombat?  Probably not.  


I have a great deal of respect for dataeast classics and fans who play them.  However, making dedicated panels just for karate champ is a little scary to me.  It's kinda like making a dedicated panel for pong.  Sure pong is the ultimate classic, but come on, it's pong people.  

The only reason I bring it up is because 4 sticks and a trackball sound like it could get really crowded, which is a bad thing.  KC plays really well with a stick and buttons and the nes port that I grew up with actually used that method.  Personally I preferred it over the two sticks.  

The NES port? Holy hell, that was terrible. Plus, it didn't even use the same patterns as the arcade for the movements (what with a D-pad and only 2 buttons). I'm also pretty sure that it didn't even have all of the available moves from the arcade. Apples and oranges.

Whether Karate Champ is to be considered a "fighter" game or not really makes no difference. There are several reasons why someone would make a dedicated panel for Karate Champ. The main reason is the fact that the game is designed for dual sticks. When the movements of two sticks to control a game has become part of your long term muscle memory like with me, a pad and buttons won't cut it. Then you have to look at it from someone else's point of view other than your own. To you it may be just another game but in my case, that game holds a lot of nostalgic value. It was the first video game that I ever mastered (also the first arcade game that I ever played more than once). If I had the cash I would buy the machine itself just to play (not for an investment). That should really scare you lol. Think about it though, a dedicated C/P for Karate Champ would cost like under $100 probably. I've dropped well over that amount worth of quarters into that machine in my lifetime.

Keep in mind that a dedicated Karate Champ control panel could work for other dual stick games too, especially if you used those sticks that have the button on top.

[paigeoliver]

Karate Champ is and will always be my favorite fighting game, because of it, my cabinet will have two joysticks for each player. I'm designing the layout after Frostillicus' panel (making the two inside joysticks topfire is an excellent idea), but I'll be adding a track ball between them.

I mean no disrespect to the karate champ fans out there but kc is a fighting game like super mario bros 1 is a 3d adventure game.  Do you fight yes?  Is it sophisticated enough to be called a "fighter" along with games like street fighter 2 and mortal kombat?  Probably not.  


I have a great deal of respect for dataeast classics and fans who play them.  However, making dedicated panels just for karate champ is a little scary to me.  It's kinda like making a dedicated panel for pong.  Sure pong is the ultimate classic, but come on, it's pong people.  

The only reason I bring it up is because 4 sticks and a trackball sound like it could get really crowded, which is a bad thing.  KC plays really well with a stick and buttons and the nes port that I grew up with actually used that method.  Personally I preferred it over the two sticks.  

Think about it though, a dedicated C/P for Karate Champ would cost like under $100 probably. I've dropped well over that amount worth of quarters into that machine in my lifetime.

Keep in mind that a dedicated Karate Champ control panel could work for other dual stick games too, especially if you used those sticks that have the button on top.

Dude, you can get an actual Karate Champ machine for around $100. Those prejamma conversion games like that have almost no collector value (with only a few exceptions like Toypop, City Connection, Penguin Kun Wars, and a few other ultra rare titles).

[MaximRecoil]

Dude, you can get an actual Karate Champ machine for around $100. Those prejamma conversion games like that have almost no collector value (with only a few exceptions like Toypop, City Connection, Penguin Kun Wars, and a few other ultra rare titles).

Maybe you can but I can't. I live in the sticks of Maine. The only way I am getting any arcade machine is online and that is at least $150 shipping if not more; plus the cost of the game itself. Then I would have to pay someone to lug it up my long steps.

Here's one at $300 with "reserve not met" and 3 bids (about 2 and a half days left on the auction).

Here's another for $200 with 6 days left on the auction with incorrect joysticks I might add.

Maybe you know people that will sell you stuff cheap but I don't (not sure why they would sell you something for $100 when they could get at least 3 times that amount on eBay).

Hell, I would have to drive an hour just to put a quarter into a real arcade machine.

Besides, if I ever do make the commitment to getting an arcade machine, my top priority would be Super Punch-Out!! followed by Punch-Out!! followed by Street Fighter II and then Karate Champ Vs.

[paigeoliver]

Dude, you can get an actual Karate Champ machine for around $100. Those prejamma conversion games like that have almost no collector value (with only a few exceptions like Toypop, City Connection, Penguin Kun Wars, and a few other ultra rare titles).

Maybe you can but I can't. I live in the sticks of Maine. The only way I am getting any arcade machine is online and that is at least $150 shipping if not more; plus the cost of the game itself. Then I would have to pay someone to lug it up my long steps.

Here's one at $300 with "reserve not met" and 3 bids (about 2 and a half days left on the auction).

Here's another for $200 with 6 days left on the auction with incorrect joysticks I might add.

Maybe you know people that will sell you stuff cheap but I don't (not sure why they would sell you something for $100 when they could get at least 3 times that amount on eBay).

Hell, I would have to drive an hour just to put a quarter into a real arcade machine.

You very simply are not looking hard enough. Ebay is the number one worst place to buy games. Period. Karate Champ is an extremely common game, and does not sell for much in the newspaper, or at the live auctions.

The entire east coast is a hot spot for arcade games. There used to be thousands of arcades in all the east coast vacation spots.

You need to check the newspaper of whatever city is closest every single day. You will find games in the $100 to $200 range tend to pop up in the classifieds about once a week.

Sometimes you have to be willing to drive a bit too.

Here, I found this in about 3 minutes of looking.

Karate Champ - Dedicated, missing sideart, works fine.  $150 anthony@quarterarcade.com in PA

Sure that one is a bit of a drive, but I found that in 3 minutes. Also unless you are disabled you shouldn't have to pay anyone to lug a game up your steps. They are not that hard to move. If you HAVE to do it alone (meaning that you don't even have ONE friend, and if that is the case, then you need to quit this board right now and go join a church or a D&D group, or a model airplane club or something), then just take out the monitor. That cuts the weight by about 60 lbs, and makes it light enough to go up the steps on a dolly with no help. But I have even done steps with games by myself with no help. But try and find someone to help.

More quick looking found a Karate Champ/Ring King machine for $175 (way too far away though), another one in PA for $100, and one in Buffaloe for $225.

[MaximRecoil]

Those people are screwing themselves by not selling on eBay. There are obviously plenty of people who will pay a lot more. Also, if I ever saw an ad for an arcade machine in the Bangor Daily I would absolutely shocked. Possibly in the Portland Herald but still not very likely.

BTW, PA is a 13-14 hour drive from me. If the fountain of youth was discovered and they were serving free drinks all around, I might consider driving 14 hours.

Because you found the ads for Karate Champ machines in PA and NY within 5 minutes of seaching in no way indicates that more extensive searching will turn up similarly priced machines within an hour or two of me.

The old standby for classified ads in ME (and parts of NH) is the "Uncle Henry's". It comes out weekly and it is about a half inch thick...far more ads than newspapers since they allow free posting of small ads whereas newspapers do not. They have been publishing their "swap or sell it guide" since 1969 and it is very popular.  Every store I have ever been to in Maine carries them and they come out on Thursdays and are usually sold out by Friday. In their own words:

What is Uncle Henry's? For more than 30 years Uncle Henry's has been publishing a weekly classified ad publication. Based in Augusta, Maine Uncle Henry's print version is distributed in convenience stores and newsstands all over New England and New Brunswick, Canada. The 13,000 classified ads in each issue are placed in one of 72 different categories.

So, a search on their site for "Karate Champ" turned up this:

Search for "karate champ" in Category "All Categories"
And ads are between $0 and No Maximum, and are within 10000 miles from My Home Address

No ads matched your search

A search for "arcade" turned up this:

Displaying ads 1 to 4 out of 4.
 
N64 new condition green w/ arcade lite 2 controllers $60-Contact Information-Shapleigh, ME

9 in 1 championship table pool table tennis table top hockey, curling, shuffle board, basketball, arcade basketball, darts, and racket ball, like new great xmas gift $75obo-Contact Information-Skowhegan, ME

Wanted to buy old pin ball and video arcade games for cash-Contact Information-Friendship, ME

Coin operated pool table, foosball, air hockey, pinballs, arcades, touchscreens call lv. msg. for more info-Contact Information-Portland, ME

Hell, eBay is astronomically huge with [I'm guessing] millions of total listings from all around the world and there are only 3 Karate Champs on there right now. The odds of finding one on the cheap (or at all) in my area are pretty slim.

[paigeoliver]

A lot of people don't want to sell their games on ebay for multiple reasons.

First off, shipping them is a huge hassle. You might think them charging a $75 crate fee is high, but let me tell you, I have crated games, and you couldn't pay me $75 to crate another one.

If you won't ship, then you won't get nearly as many bids.

Ebay takes a cut of the money.

Local sales are quick, easy, and require very little labor on the part of the seller. Basically someone comes over, gives you some money, and carts off the game.

Plus, a lot of game sellers raid warehouses and have zillions of games laying around. The first thing you do after a warehouse raid is to sell of the "junk" games locally to pay for the raid you just did. And basically everything made from 1984 to 1991 that isn't Atari is "junk" as far as the collectors market goes.

Doing a bulk buy often stretches your wallet. I remember the time I bought a lot of 7 games for $400, an SCI upright for $100, a lot of 2 games for $100 in the same day. That was my ENTIRE paycheck. But, I turned the Streetfighter 2 machines (two of them), and a Crime City almost instantly (2 days) for a total of $850. That paid off the lot and then some (still leaving me with 7 machines). Could I have gotten more on ebay? Maybe, one of the Street Fighters was in awesome condition (Atari cab with new looking peach laminate and new sideart).

Anyway, I still say keep looking. Even if you don't find a Karate Champ, you can probably find something else with the same pinout, and then get a kit.

[hyiu]

I mean no disrespect to the karate champ fans out there but kc is a fighting game like super mario bros 1 is a 3d adventure game.  Do you fight yes?  Is it sophisticated enough to be called a "fighter" along with games like street fighter 2 and mortal kombat?  Probably not.  

I have a great deal of respect for dataeast classics and fans who play them.  However, making dedicated panels just for karate champ is a little scary to me.  It's kinda like making a dedicated panel for pong.  Sure pong is the ultimate classic, but come on, it's pong people.  

The only reason I bring it up is because 4 sticks and a trackball sound like it could get really crowded, which is a bad thing.  KC plays really well with a stick and buttons and the nes port that I grew up with actually used that method.  Personally I preferred it over the two sticks.  

ok... let me try to understand HC's logic....

when people make a you-can-play-most-games-in-1-panel...
he step at them... saying its not clean.... saying its cluttered...

when people make a 4 player panel... you said they're too big....

when people make a dedeciated panel for a few games...
he said come on... its just KC / pong... why bother ??.....

although your first words in this post is "I mean no disrespect..."
I think this IS a very disrespectful thing you said....

I'm not trying to pick a fight here.... just saying what's on my mind....

btw, care to show us your cab and panel ??....
I'm sure there're guys here waiting for you to enlighten us what is  the "right" way to do this....  


[edit]
ohhh... 1 more thing....
comparing kc to mortal kombat / sf is pure BS.....

its simply a personal choice....

some people might like a game because its complicated....
some might like it because it simple.....

so.... even if a game is repetitive / simple / easy / stupid....
doesn't mean some people out there can enjoy it....
like it... and build a dedeciate panel / cab out of it....

so.. plz repect other people's right.....  

[/edit]

[MaximRecoil]

I guess I am fortunate that Karate Champ Vs isn't considered collectible. The only games I want to own are the ones that I really took an interest in at the arcades and got good at (plus a few just because they are fun). I have a feeling that the Punch-Out machines that I want will be expensive though. Every one of them that I have seen so far have been pretty pricey.

What I want in this order would be:

1. Super Punch-Out!!
2. Punch-Out!!
3. Street Fighter II
4. Karate Champ Vs.

And I wouldn't go out of my way for these next two:

5. Super Dodge Ball
6. Vs. Excitebike

That's about all of them that I was really good at. For a while when I was a kid I was working in a laundromat (that had a couple arcade games) and there were a few games that I got good at out of pure boredom like Capcom Bowling and Battle Shark but I am not interested in owning those.

I would probably want to get ahold of Ikari Warriors too even though I suck at it. My best friend growing up loved that game and was the best player I have ever seen on it. It would be cool to have for when he drops by.

So which out of the games that I listed would be the most expensive? I have a feeling it would be Super Punch-Out!! and/or Punch-Out!!.

Oh, and while I'm at it, how did they rig the joystick in Super Punch-Out!! to make your man duck when you pulled straight up on the stick? All of those little Nintento "Vs. system" style joysticks (like was used in the Punch-Out games) will pull straight up like that and spring back down but Super Punch-Out!! is the only one that I know of that actually had a game function built into it. Was it a special joystick or was it just a regular Nintendo joystick that Nintendo jury-rigged?

[Captain Rotundo]

I think your being overly zealous in telling him what to purchase.  If he wants to spend $1000 on a CP let him!

I don't have room in my house for the single MAME cab I am building.  And I am taking all the time in the world partially due to this.  Some day in a few years I will move, and let me tell you this time one prime thing I will be looking for is an 'extra' room for games.

And I can appreciate the love of Karate Champ.... I had forgotten about it until very recently (so much so that I hadn't bothered looking for it in MAME)  One day I stumbled on it, and let me tell you I was so happy.  I remember playing that game very vividly and I only saw it at one place one summer, it was never in a local arcade as far as I can tell. (I bet I am younger than this guy)

Well as soon as I finish the cab, and the standard 2P 6B CP I will be making a second CP for the cab that will be 2-sticks per person... I think I will make it for Karate Champ and for Smash TV primarily but I will probably also include buttons so it can be a 4P panel.

I don't like the way the cluttered CPs look so I have been planning swappable panels from the start.

[clok]

Hmm now I might be mistaken (and most likely am), isnt Karate Champ really the first One on ONE multi attack fighter (I.E. Streetfighter type game, while Streetfighter II is sorta used as a "type" of game as it was the first extremlly succesfull fighter game).

HC, I must say from hanging here for 2+ years (not long really) I do respect your comments."I mean no disrespect to the karate champ fans out there but kc is a fighting game like super mario bros 1 is a 3d adventure game".

 I must disagree with Karate Champ not being  a fighting game. The only real difference between it and other fighting games are not much. Im going to compare to SF II.



 2 Joysticks, instead of Joystick and 6 buttons.Less moves, less characters, lesser graphics.

Less doesnt mean bad, now I will give you SF II has much more varity and looks pretty, but its still a ONE ON ONE fight game.


One place where Karate CHAMP shines as a fight game is, there are no cheese moves (SF II had , and has many, that where removed, changed, modified in the many versions). Both Players are on EQUAL GROUND, SKILL and KNOWLEDGE of the fighting system will wind the round, not the ability to charge a backflip kick faster then any other character.

While I love to play SF II and all the clones, remakes, and -same game, different characters, different moves-, I also love Karate Champ, it was a simple, yet it took skill to beat another good player.


After all that is said, Karate CHamp had the worst Joysticks in the gameing world, even on a new machine, it was not an easy game to make the joysticks go where you wanted them. I would say the major problem for this game was that. Pushing a Joystick what you thought was straight up(12 oclock), will sometimes produce a (11 oclock) different move.

If you really look at it, SF II is really a clone of KC (almost all games are a clone, or derive insperation from other games in some way), it made the controls better, added more moves, and special moves  both still have basicly same type of moves, SF II basicaly improved on the Idea.

Just my opinion, and as I say, I respect yours, I just disagree with it  

"I mean no disrespect"  and none was taken, Im just disagreeing  (friendly disagreement).. can you tell I do messageboards alot...Treading On eggshells... I've never understond why some boards cant have people debate ina  civil manner, we are nvere all going to agree, no matter what..

Clok

[Dartful Dodger]

I'm to old, and I don't have time to learn 10 special moves for 12 different guys, and figure out which guy is better suited against each guy. Plus the speed and colors give me nightmares.

Karate Champ!  Karate Champ!  Karate Champ!
Karate Champ!  Karate Champ!  Karate Champ!

My cabinet wont be dedicated to Karate Champ, but it will be built to play it right.

Karate Champ!  Karate Champ!  Karate Champ!
Karate Champ!  Karate Champ!  Karate Champ!

 

[shmokes]

I agree with Howard with regard to Karate Champ.  I feel that way about most racing games too.  The fun factor of Pole Position compared with Crazy Taxi or Midnight Club II is pretty low.

However, I wouldn't discourage the dual joystick setups as long as you also like Smash TV.  That's pretty cool with two players!  I also wouldn't discourage making a panel that emphasizes function over form.  For me, I have to try to make this thing as pleasing to the eye as possible, since I've got a relatively small apartment and my wife doesn't want a monstrosity in my house.  If you don't have much of an eye for design or it's just really important to you to have all the right controls, whatever...

For the average non-arcade enthusiast person (nearly everyone on earth) an arcade cabinet in one's home is a monstrosity, frankenpanel or no.  Honestly people, arcade cabinets, including Frosty's and 1up's works of art, are butt ugly.  They are giant refrigerator sized wooden boxes with joysticks and a TV crammed in them.  The artwork is juvenile.  They hog space and draw attention away from everything else in the room.  It is nostalgia that makes these things attractive to us.  Before you start lecturing about fundamental design considerations abandon the idea of having a full-sized authentic arcade cabinet sitting in your home altogether.

[MinerAl]

The only dedicated arcade machine I own is a KC.  I'm working on restoring it.  I bought a "like new" replacement control panel for it online once and got the most beat up piece of rusty bent metal I've ever seen, and 4 Wico leafy joysticks.  It was only $30, so I felt good about getting the Wicos cheap, but I was disappointed that it didn't have the real joysticks!

The closest joystick for feel I've found is the T-stick from Ultimarc.  Very stiff and short throw.

Karate Champ was the only arcade game at which I was ever good enough to draw a crowd to watch me.  Oh I was king of Skateland that night...  It's all been down hill from there.

Some of my junior high friends and I have KC nights every once in a while.  Sometimes you just need to (virtually) squatting-reverse-lunge-punch a good friend in the crotch.  Good times.

I think Karate Champ is still the only non-pr0n game to reward your victories by giving you tiny Asian women.  I think that's a trend that needs to come back:  

"That was a well played game of Star Wars Galaxies.  Here's your tiny Asian woman."

[Howard_Casto]

I agree with Howard with regard to Karate Champ.  I feel that way about most racing games too.  The fun factor of Pole Position compared with Crazy Taxi or Midnight Club II is pretty low.

However, I wouldn't discourage the dual joystick setups as long as you also like Smash TV.  

I knew someone would bring that up.  KC used dual 4 ways.  Putting dual 4 ways on a cab is like putting dual 2 ways.

[MinerAl]

I knew someone would bring that up.  KC used dual 4 ways.  Putting dual 4 ways on a cab is like putting dual 2 ways.

Yes, but if, as a wise man suggested, you were to use Ultimarc T-Sticks, you would have dual 4/8 ways.  Few other sticks are as easy to switch from 4 to 8, and it just happens to be the high-quality way to have a stiffer short throw joystick in place of the horrid originals.

It's the best of many worlds.  Worlds where you can win tiny Asian women.

[Xiaou2]

"I mean no disrespect to the karate champ fans out there but kc is a fighting game like super mario bros 1 is a 3d adventure game.  Do you fight yes?  Is it sophisticated enough to be called a "fighter" along with games like street fighter 2 and mortal kombat?  Probably not."

   This is ridiculus.  Mario is not a fighter... its a platfomer.  Thats like calling Tennis, checkers.
 
   Sure... Karate Champ isnt as advanced as the New fighters... but that dosnt change what it is.   Where do you think the new fighters came from?!   I bet that streetfighter creators were greatly inspired by Karate Champ.

  Karate Champ was revolutionary for its dual controls.  Before this... most fighters didnt have that many moves possible... and wasnt as intuitive.

     
 "I have a great deal of respect for dataeast classics and fans who play them.  However, making dedicated panels just for karate champ is a little scary to me."


  By saying such a comment... you are JUDGEING and Criticizing them.  THIS IS NOT RESPECTFULL.  It is Public Mockery.  

  Such mockery seems to come from people who feel they are somehow SUPERIOR to others... From people who think that thier way (or opinion) is the best and Only way.  From people who are Insensative, mean spirited, unenlightented, egotistical,  arrogant,  need attention , low self esteem so have to boost it by putting others down...


 "It's kinda like making a dedicated panel for pong.  Sure pong is the ultimate classic, but come on, it's pong people."

  SO WHAT!  If someone wants to make a pong cabinet... thats thier perogative.  Do you feel threatened by this so have to tell them that you feel like they are idiotic because they dont share your SUPERIOR views?
 
"The only reason I bring it up is because 4 sticks and a trackball sound like it could get really crowded, which is a bad thing."

  Who cares.  Its not your panel.   Its also not a nice way to offer your suggestion - by shoving them down others throats and mocking them in the process.  

 Your arrogence makes me sick to my stomache.

[Xiaou2]

"I agree with Howard with regard to Karate Champ.  I feel that way about most racing games too.  The fun factor of Pole Position compared with Crazy Taxi or Midnight Club II is pretty low."

  Maybe thats because you arnt that good at it?   I didnt get into Pole Position till about 2 yrs ago when i was actually old enuff to finally learn how to play it correctly (on a real machine) and play very well.   I prefer this game to most new racers as its more challenging and playable.

 IMOP, most new racers are boaring, slow, non-challenging... and un-realistic in damage.  My fav racer is Outrun.  Ultra Fast, Beautiful, challenging.   I also like some new racers like Ridge Racer.  I will say that it depends on the mood.  Just like music... you might choose to play one game over another.  (older or newer)


"For the average non-arcade enthusiast person (nearly everyone on earth)"


   Is that possible that you know this for fact?   If all the people who grew up in the 80s who played the games and actually had the money... im sure would love to own classics.  

   My feeling is that you are younger.   Youve may have seen small arcades and or arcades that have mostly newwer games.   What you may not realize is exactly how popular video games were in the 80s.  Arcades were Hot - and millions of machines were made and sold.  Many still exist in homes and warehouses all across the world.  

"an arcade cabinet in one's home is a monstrosity, frankenpanel or no.  Honestly people, arcade cabinets, including Frosty's and 1up's works of art, are butt ugly.  They are giant refrigerator sized wooden boxes with joysticks and a TV crammed in them.  The artwork is juvenile.  They hog space and draw attention away from everything else in the room.  It is nostalgia that makes these things attractive to us.  Before you start lecturing about fundamental design considerations abandon the idea of having a full-sized authentic arcade cabinet sitting in your home altogether."

 Cabs butt ugly?  I think not.  Its not just the nostolgia.... but really... some cabs are just beautiful.   The art is colorfull and captures your Imagination.  Deepens the impact and feeling of the game.  

  When I look at my Sega Turbo... I see the wild racing stripes and real gauges... and I think "VROOOM!".   It psyches you up on a sub-consious level... and adds that extra bit of enjoyment.

  Im not sure what you think is visually pleasing... but Im guessing your standards are very high.   Not everyone places as high a standard on "matching",  looks,  placment,  ect.   Not everyone can afford to either... as I believe most are poor ---daisies--- like myself.  

  It seems that the younger generation dosnt always understand the true impact of correct controls.  Most cant stand the low tec graphics of classics ... so dont give the games a chance... dont get good enuff at them to realize how much fun they really are. (lots of times more fun than many current games)

 

[kspiff]

I agree with Howard with regard to Karate Champ.  I feel that way about most racing games too.  The fun factor of Pole Position compared with Crazy Taxi or Midnight Club II is pretty low.

However, I wouldn't discourage the dual joystick setups as long as you also like Smash TV.  

I knew someone would bring that up.  KC used dual 4 ways.  Putting dual 4 ways on a cab is like putting dual 2 ways.

Now that I don't know about.. I can't think of a use for dual 2-ways, but dual 4-ways would be good for Assault and (I think) Crazy Climber at least.. probably best to get 2 J-sticks or something switchable, though.

[MaximRecoil]

I agree with Howard with regard to Karate Champ.  I feel that way about most racing games too.  The fun factor of Pole Position compared with Crazy Taxi or Midnight Club II is pretty low.

However, I wouldn't discourage the dual joystick setups as long as you also like Smash TV.  

I knew someone would bring that up.  KC used dual 4 ways.  Putting dual 4 ways on a cab is like putting dual 2 ways.

Karate Champ works fine with 8 ways...but the throw should be stiff and short for it to feel right. Anyway, even if you built a dedicated control panel for one game, I still don't see the big deal. My neighbor back in '81 spent all winter shoveling driveways to come up with $50 to buy a shiny new Missile Command cart for his Atari 2600 (that's right, one game). There seems to be plenty of people on here who have spent hundreds of dollars on a dedicated arcade machine (which is also just one game).

Making a dedicated CP for Karate Champ could be dirt cheap if you did it right. Probably the easiest and cheapest way to do it would be to buy a used CP off a KC machine and hack into a couple of cheap USB gamepad PCB's. That would probably cost about $50 (which includes the cost of the gamepads) or about the cost of an Atari 2600 cart in the early 80's or a PS2 game now.

I'm sure that the MAME team spent more than $50 worth of time on Karate Champ or any other single game that you care to mention that is playable in MAME. I suppose that they should have their heads checked for that.

[shmokes]

That's funny.  I hadn't thought of that (I never played Karate Champ).  Smash TV would suck just a little with 4-way sticks.

Like people said switchable 4/8 way sticks would solve the problem to some degree, but they wouldn't be authentic Karate champ sticks either.

[MinerAl]

Out of curiousity (and laziness, 'cause I could go to my storage unit and check myself), what brand of sticks did KC use?  They always reminded me of a more industrial style than other arcade joysticks.  Like maybe from a crane or skid-loader or wheelchair or something.

Anytime you use anything but the original controls on an original dedicated cabinet, authenticity is sacrificed.  Playability is the issue, and I declare (here from my ivory throne, surrounded by tiny Asian women) T-sticks would be a good alternative for someone who was willing to sacrifice a little authenticity for some playability.

On my cocktail cab the first 4 buttons are arranged in a diamond pattern, specifically for playing KC.  It took me about 3 plays to convince my hand to push the "up" button instead of moving a joystick up.  Not authentic, but it makes KC playable with 1 joy and 4 buttons.

Arguing about authenticity of controls on a MAME cabinet is kind of like arguing about the virtue of a hooker.  She might pretend really well, but...

[paigeoliver]

Anytime you use anything but the original controls on an original dedicated cabinet, authenticity is sacrificed.  

Some games did not always have the same controls. Space Invaders was available joystick or buttons (leaf, or microleaf) from so many different companies.

Also, joysticks usually varied between US, Japan, and European versions of games.

Smaller game companies were as likely as not to change joysticks mid run, simply because they ran out, and something else was on special that month.

It is also kind of iffy to assign a proper set of controls to conversion games. Some kits came with controls, some didn't. And even when they did, they often never made it into the game, not if the original sticks were still good.

[MaximRecoil]

I've played on at least 10 different Karate Champ Vs. machines and they all had the same joysticks (machines that have been changed like to a red ball stick or whatever stick out like a sore thumb). I can't speak for the regular Karate Champ though because I have never played it on a real machine. Speaking of which, did anyone notice that in the movie "Bloodsport" they showed them playing a regular Karate Champ machine and they were fighting each other at the same time like on a Vs. machine even though that machine didn't support that?

My gamepad has the buttons in a diamond pattern and I can make do with it but I still don't like it.

Anyway, I would like to know the brand of joysticks also.  MinerAl made an interesting comparison between KC Vs Joysticks and industrial machinery joysticks. I had never thought of that before but he is right. Of course they also feel very similar to Atari 2600 joysticks.

[Dartful Dodger]

For the average non-arcade enthusiast person (nearly everyone on earth) an arcade cabinet in one's home is a monstrosity, frankenpanel or no.  Honestly people, arcade cabinets, including Frosty's and 1up's works of art, are butt ugly.  They are giant refrigerator sized wooden boxes with joysticks and a TV crammed in them.  The artwork is juvenile.  They hog space and draw attention away from everything else in the room.  It is nostalgia that makes these things attractive to us.  Before you start lecturing about fundamental design considerations abandon the idea of having a full-sized authentic arcade cabinet sitting in your home altogether.

Sounds like somebody is a little bitter because his wife, or mommy wont let them have an arcade cab.

[TalkingOctopus]

Years ago, I bought this game for 78 cents for NES w/ no manual.  I had no idea it was an arcade.  Anyhow,  it is unplayable on the NES and my friends and I could not stop laughing while playing it.  We could not face eachother and were always punching in the wrong direction.  Also, the bonus stages where pots are thrown at you made no sense.  I still don't know if you are supposed to dodge them or punch them.

Anyone else played this one for NES?  It is good times.

[Inaba]

Once again, HC shows his total ignorance on any subject he deems to speak about.  Sadly, if you've seen his cab, it's nothing special and his CP looks crappy... but again, it's my opinion, and it doesn't matter a whit to him, nor should it.  If any of you want to look very hard, you can find links in a CP thread from a month or two ago of his cab and CP.  In his "years" of cab contruction, he's managed to produce a couple CPs and I believe one cab, all of which are pretty plain jane.  HC has absolutely no position of authority to make comments on others work (or desires), as he's produced nothing indicating his fitness in any given area; so take whatever he says with a grain of salt and then just ignore him.

Saying KC isn't a fighting game is like saying Hagas isn't a food.  I'll leave that analogy up to the reader.  Personally, I find the newer "fighters" to be an excise in memory, more than any skill.  KC emodied skill and timing... none of the new fighters really require skill, just a good memory and fast reflexes.  With KC, you had to plan your moves and execute them just right.  Some of the newer fighters have some of the elements... but I don't really have any desire to remember all those button/joystick combinations for mismatched opponent characters.  KC is all about one-on-one skill, nothing more

As far as KC joysticks go, I've never played a KC game that did NOT have the red-ball-top joysticks.  I wasn't aware those were non-standard... All the arcades in my youth were the red-ball top type with fairly long throws and were pretty sturdy, not mushy at all.  

So, to all the "authentic" people out there, how does that play into authenticity.  If all the arcades around my town were of the "non-standard" variety of joystick on the KC machines, would it really be authentic (to me at least) to have the "mushy" ones ya'll are referring to?

Personally, I haven't had any problems playing KC on my 4 player panel w/ 8-way sticks.  So the point it pretty moot... my problem lies in any decent competition.  I can't seem to find anyone who's good at the game

[clok]

I think after reading this thread I relize Why im not enjoying KC as much as i once did, I have (4) 8-ways on my machine, no wonder Im having a tough time doing moves!!!!! I do remeber getting a bit frustrated on a real machine, but not like I am right now...

And Xioua2, HC wasnt comparing SuperMario Bro to Fighting games, he was comparing it to 3-d platformers... reread his post...

Inaba, CIVIL disagreement, please... we where doing so well...


Clok

[hyiu]

it doesn't matter what he compares to....

KC can be a good game or a crappy game to anyone... but I think we have enough "respect" here to allow each of us to have a favorite game.... (and that favorite game can be different for each person....)

what makes me angry is HC crossed the line by implying that building a dedeciated panel / cab is a wate of time / effort !!!!  

I usually don't like to "flame" a thread on different opinions....
but I thought HC is a little better than that....

what disappointed me even more is that after that post... HC is not even man enough to post again in this thread to apologize for his statement....  


and for shmokes...

.....  They are giant refrigerator sized wooden boxes with joysticks and a TV crammed in them.  The artwork is juvenile.  They hog space and draw attention away from everything else in the room.  It is nostalgia that makes these things attractive to us.  Before you start lecturing about fundamental design considerations abandon the idea of having a full-sized authentic arcade cabinet sitting in your home altogether....

correct me if I'm wrong.... it seems like you DO NOT like arcade cabs in a home in general.... (I have no problem with what you don't like.....)
but then why are you even here ...... on a forum where almost every member in interested in having an arcade cab ....

 

Xiao is right.... comments in this thread make me sick to my stomach....