Author Topic: Another legal roms source (pay-per-download) (Read 16826 times)

SpamMe · « **on:** October 01, 2003, 06:57:02 pm »

Don't know if this has been mentioned before, but I just noticed it on slashdot.
http://www.starroms.com/index.php
They've got about 60 roms, and they cost $2-$6 each.
Interesting stuff, at any rate.

CitznFish · « **Reply #1 on:** October 01, 2003, 07:29:46 pm »

i guess that ups the count of ROMS you can legally own..

nelsonej · « **Reply #2 on:** October 01, 2003, 07:48:00 pm »

Is this the beginning of something for classic gamers, or is Atari just trying to make some money?

I say Atari because every game on StarRoms is an Atari game.

rampy · « **Reply #3 on:** October 01, 2003, 07:49:23 pm »

just saw that on slashdot

sure is interesting.... Game list below

Code: [Select]


You are not signed in. Available credits = 0


Browse All Available Titles

Game Title Manufacturer Year Price Purchase
720 Degrees Atari Games 1986 16 credits DOWNLOAD!
A.P.B. Atari 1987 16 credits DOWNLOAD!
Arcade Classics Atari Games 1992 24 credits DOWNLOAD!
Asteroids Atari 1979 24 credits DOWNLOAD!
Asteroids Deluxe Atari 1980 24 credits DOWNLOAD!
Atari Baseball Atari 1979 8 credits DOWNLOAD!
Atari Football Atari 1979 8 credits DOWNLOAD!
Atari Soccer Atari 1979 8 credits DOWNLOAD!
Avalanche Atari 1978 10 credits DOWNLOAD!
Batman Atari Games 1990 20 credits DOWNLOAD!
Battlezone Atari 1980 16 credits DOWNLOAD!
Beat Head Atari Games 1993 16 credits DOWNLOAD!
Black Widow Atari 1982 14 credits DOWNLOAD!
Blasteroids Atari Games 1987 22 credits DOWNLOAD!
Centipede Atari 1980 24 credits DOWNLOAD!
Championship Sprint Atari Games 1986 16 credits DOWNLOAD!
Cloak & Dagger Atari 1983 14 credits DOWNLOAD!
Cloud 9 Atari 1983 14 credits DOWNLOAD!
Crystal Castles Atari 1983 16 credits DOWNLOAD!
Cyberball Atari Games 1988 16 credits DOWNLOAD!
Escape From The Planet Of The Robot Monsters Atari 1989 18 credits DOWNLOAD!
Gauntlet Atari 1985 22 credits DOWNLOAD!
Gauntlet II Atari 1986 22 credits DOWNLOAD!
Gravitar Atari 1982 16 credits DOWNLOAD!
I, Robot Atari 1983 12 credits DOWNLOAD!
Klax Atari 1989 18 credits DOWNLOAD!
Liberator Atari 1982 16 credits DOWNLOAD!
Lunar Lander Atari 1979 12 credits DOWNLOAD!
Major Havoc Atari 1983 20 credits DOWNLOAD!
Marble Madness Atari Games 1984 16 credits DOWNLOAD!
Millipede Atari 1982 24 credits DOWNLOAD!
Missile Command Atari 1980 24 credits DOWNLOAD!
Monte Carlo Atari 1980 16 credits DOWNLOAD!
Off The Wall (1991) Atari Games 1991 18 credits DOWNLOAD!
Paperboy Atari Games 1984 16 credits DOWNLOAD!
Peter Packrat Atari 1985 16 credits DOWNLOAD!
Quantum Atari 1982 16 credits DOWNLOAD!
Qwak Atari 1982 12 credits DOWNLOAD!
Rampart Atari 1990 20 credits DOWNLOAD!
Red Baron Atari 1980 12 credits DOWNLOAD!
Relief Pitcher Atari 1992 20 credits DOWNLOAD!
Road Blasters Atari 1987 20 credits DOWNLOAD!
Road Riot's Revenge Atari Games 1993 16 credits DOWNLOAD!
Road Runner Atari Games 1985 14 credits DOWNLOAD!
S.T.U.N. Runner Atari Games 1989 16 credits DOWNLOAD!
Shuuz Atari 1990 18 credits DOWNLOAD!
Skull & Crossbones Atari Games 1989 16 credits DOWNLOAD!
Space Duel Atari 1982 16 credits DOWNLOAD!
Sparkz Atari Games 1992 16 credits DOWNLOAD!
Super Breakout Atari 1978 12 credits DOWNLOAD!
Super Sprint Atari Games 1986 16 credits DOWNLOAD!
Tempest Atari 1980 22 credits DOWNLOAD!
Tetris Atari Games 1988 24 credits DOWNLOAD!
ThunderJaws Atari Games 1990 20 credits DOWNLOAD!
Toobin' Atari Games 1988 18 credits DOWNLOAD!
Vindicators Atari 1988 16 credits DOWNLOAD!
Vindicators Part II Atari 1988 16 credits DOWNLOAD!
Warlords Atari 1980 16 credits DOWNLOAD!
Xybots Atari Games 1987 18 credits DOWNLOAD!

rampy · « **Reply #4 on:** October 01, 2003, 07:51:44 pm »

Quote from: nelsonej on October 01, 2003, 07:48:00 pm

Is this the beginning of something for classic gamers, or is Atari just trying to make some money?

I say Atari because every game on StarRoms is an Atari game.

Probably the former. I imagine Atari roms are cheaper/easier to get (And also popular) because of the recent bankruptcy and selling off Atari arcade stuff/rights.... know what I mean vern?

It's just my theory anyways.
rampy

CitznFish · « **Reply #5 on:** October 01, 2003, 08:21:48 pm »

Quote from: rampy on October 01, 2003, 07:51:44 pm

Quote from: nelsonej on October 01, 2003, 07:48:00 pm
Is this the beginning of something for classic gamers, or is Atari just trying to make some money?

I say Atari because every game on StarRoms is an Atari game.

Probably the former. I imagine Atari roms are cheaper/easier to get (And also popular) because of the recent bankruptcy and selling off Atari arcade stuff/rights.... know what I mean vern?

It's just my theory anyways.
rampy

Love your bastardization of that sig....

Safron · « **Reply #6 on:** October 01, 2003, 08:38:10 pm »

Looks pretty good.
I expect that to be right popular with our crowd.
I for one, do not mind supporting the legal right to finally own some of these classics.

Xiaou2 · « **Reply #7 on:** October 01, 2003, 09:59:26 pm »

I wouldnt mind paying for some of my fav clasics... BUT...
I think theres a big problem here.

They say they want to preserve the classics... but in order to assure that, they would have to buy the game rights. They are not doing that. Rather.. they are just getting permission to share profits for the downloads.

If the owners of the games (currently Midway), decides that they do not want to do this anymore... then they will the site will dissapear... (and after some gungho illigal rom suits... so will classics finally die..?!)

Also... how do you proove that you OWN the rights to the game? (esp if you lose your reciepts) And how THEY proove that you own that game rom - for 'LIFE'? They do not gaurentee that... They do not give any legal specs on the site!

I think its a scam to make money. Not really to preserve classics. I also thing the prices are a bit steep. I think I saw "Avalanch", a Black and white game for $2.50. No offense to those who love that game... but Geez... that seems a bit steep for a not so advanced, Nor superior playable game.

Since I might have the original arcade game to begin with... Can i download the game for free? What if I lose the game in a harddrive crash? Can I re-download? Most likely not unless I want to pay full price again.

I think a bunch of people should get together to actually purchase the Legal Rights to the actual games... and make them legally distributable till the end of time.

SpamMe · « **Reply #8 on:** October 01, 2003, 10:36:04 pm »

Well, the other thing, I suppose, is how many you buy. At their minimum order quantity, a "credit" is $.25 (40 for $10) If you spend $99, tho, you get 800 credits ($0.124/ea). ::shrug:: Good to see an inexpensive way to purchase just a couple of specific games, I think.

OSCAR · « **Reply #9 on:** October 01, 2003, 10:40:53 pm »

Quote from: Xiaou2 on October 01, 2003, 09:59:26 pm

I wouldnt mind paying for some of my fav clasics... BUT...
I think theres a big problem here.

They say they want to preserve the classics... but in order to assure that, they would have to buy the game rights. They are not doing that. Rather.. they are just getting permission to share profits for the downloads.

If the owners of the games (currently Midway), decides that they do not want to do this anymore... then they will the site will dissapear... (and after some gungho illigal rom suits... so will classics finally die..?!)

Also... how do you proove that you OWN the rights to the game? (esp if you lose your reciepts) And how THEY proove that you own that game rom - for 'LIFE'? They do not gaurentee that... They do not give any legal specs on the site!

I think its a scam to make money. Not really to preserve classics. I also thing the prices are a bit steep. I think I saw "Avalanch", a Black and white game for $2.50. No offense to those who love that game... but Geez... that seems a bit steep for a not so advanced, Nor superior playable game.

Since I might have the original arcade game to begin with... Can i download the game for free? What if I lose the game in a harddrive crash? Can I re-download? Most likely not unless I want to pay full price again.

I think a bunch of people should get together to actually purchase the Legal Rights to the actual games... and make them legally distributable till the end of time.

I certainly agree with this. I believe you would have a hard time proving that you "own" the rights to these roms because you paid a website to download them. Now if you received something in writing from the copyright holder, or that the copyright holder condones this action, that you have a right to own these roms after you pay this company for them, that is a different story. There is an email address on the website for copyright/legal info, it would be worthwhile to inquire about what legal rights to the roms you really have (in writing) before purchasing. It never hurts to be cautious because there are lots of scammers out there. But hopefully this is a legit operation because the only other way to accomplish this is to have a collection of pcbs laying in storage or something like the HanaHo CD.

Radical · « **Reply #10 on:** October 01, 2003, 10:42:11 pm »

If anyone gets more information on the legal aspects please let us know. I'm 100% willing to support these types of things but I'm unsure of what exactly I'm purchasing.

JackTucky · « **Reply #11 on:** October 01, 2003, 10:42:19 pm »

I am wondering too about the site. Where is the contract that they can sell them?

If it was Amazon or Target or some other major retailer,I'd go for it. But who are these guys?

Send me the money, I'll send you the Rom "legally" too.

If they ever offer a certificate of authenticity, run for the hills. Those are the biggest scam on ebay.

Art

DaveMMR · « **Reply #12 on:** October 02, 2003, 12:26:38 am »

Here's something to think about:

Midway is releasing a collection of 20 games in Nov. (PS2/GC/Xbox) for the Suggested Retail Price of $20. That price also factors in packaging, distribution, etc. That's $1 a game!

Starroms.com meanwhile is charging $2 to $6 for some games, that honestly, are not always worth that much. And that's without that convienient carrying case known as a CD-ROM.

I know it's Apples to Oranges but it's something to think about.

I know Xiaou said this kinda but: I don't think allowing people to pay you for copyrighted material that you'll 'give back' to the owners is how it works. You're supposed to purchase the licensing rights first, then sell. I may be wrong but that's what it sounds like they are doing. If they said "we purchased the rights..." then okay fine.

Besides, I like to think of people as honest but... they're not going to stay in business (if they're in fact legit) unless they offer better incentives to download their ROMs for a price. When someone is looking for a game and they have the option to get the same thing either for free or for $6, guess what they're going to choose...

Though I'm all for paying a fair price to the right party for legal ROMs, I'm saving my money for the Midway collection for now.

jerryjanis · « **Reply #13 on:** October 02, 2003, 12:51:27 am »

I really want to believe. Between that collection and the Capcom collection, half of the games that I want to play are available legally.

(Wull, besides the fact that I want to play ALL of them.)

Kilgore · « **Reply #14 on:** October 02, 2003, 02:10:01 am »

FYI, here is the link to the licensing agreement:

http://www.starroms.com/games/0001/license.php

It doesn't look overly restrictive. Personal use only, do not lease, sell or rent. The only thing that looks like it may really be restricted is the ability to resell the ROM (or is that a license tranfer fee.)

What worries me is the same thing that worries me with pay to download music. How do I prove I purchased it? I usually don't worry about this with software, because its life span isn't really that long, but for music and classic arcade ROMs I plan to add them to my collection permanently and would like proof of ownership (or licenseing if you will).

Of course I will have copies of classic arcade ROMs regardless if they are paid for or not. If ROMs are outlawed then only outlaws will have ROMs. Next thing you know I will be walking damn the street packing my 9mm and giving free crack samples when your kids by ROMs from me.

As I have said before, I am willing and able to support the retail sales of game ROMs and feel that it benefits the emulation scene when ROMs are legally available for purchase. For the time being I will wait and watch, as the game ROMs I am most interested in I have legally available to me already in cabinet, PCB, and/or Atari Arcade Hits form. If I find myself playing a game that is available from this site and I am not making fair use of an existing license then I will run out and purchase one immediately.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #15 on:** October 02, 2003, 02:15:04 am »

Well, signing up to this service you get 15 free credits. I will be getting lunar lander. I wish it was 16, I'd get 720

BTW, if I added correctly it takes 1030 credits to buy it all. Will report how it went...

SirPoonga · « **Reply #16 on:** October 02, 2003, 02:44:46 am »

First, here's the EULA

paigeoliver · « **Reply #17 on:** October 02, 2003, 02:47:47 am »

When you downloaded did the file come with any other files? Or just the ROM archive and the eula?

SirPoonga · « **Reply #18 on:** October 02, 2003, 02:49:09 am »

You get 48 hours to download the file after purchase.
I haven't received a receipt or anything yet. I'm not sure if after 48 hours the file is taken off the download list or just not linked and kept there as proof of download.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #19 on:** October 02, 2003, 02:50:33 am »

Quote from: paigeoliver on October 02, 2003, 02:47:47 am

When you downloaded did the file come with any other files? Or just the ROM archive and the eula?

Just the zip file with roms in it.

paigeoliver · « **Reply #20 on:** October 02, 2003, 02:52:11 am »

Yeah, I just signed up and got Red Baron.

You can actually get ALL the games under 16 credits free, since you can just sign up over and over again.

BUT, the files come with NOTHING stating their legitimacy. As far as I am concerned I already bought all of them.

Emails addresses come and go. That company will be out of business in a few months, and for the rest of eternity everyone will claim they bought their Atari roms there legally.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #21 on:** October 02, 2003, 02:59:28 am »

Yeah, there are 13 games that are 15 credits or less. You could sign up a couple of times and legally own those roms. The really good games like Toobin' you can't get, dang!

Unless the game stays in your download list there is no proof of purchase I see?

paigeoliver · « **Reply #22 on:** October 02, 2003, 02:59:59 am »

I just verified that you can sign up more than once.

So the following roms are all free now, since you can sign up multiple times.

Atari Baseball
Atari Football
Atari Soccer
Avalanche
Black Widow
Cloak & Dagger
Cloud 9
Lunar Lander
Qwak
Red Baron
Super Breakout

paigeoliver · « **Reply #23 on:** October 02, 2003, 03:01:54 am »

Quote from: SirPoonga on October 02, 2003, 02:59:28 am

Yeah, there are 13 games that are 15 credits or less. You could sign up a couple of times and legally own those roms. The really good games like Toobin' you can't get, dang!

Unless the game stays in your download list there is no proof of purchase I see?

The company will be gone in a few months anyway. Once they are gone "THE MAN" will never have any way to prove who bought what.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #24 on:** October 02, 2003, 03:02:18 am »

The EULA doesn't say anything about signing multiple times, does it? I didn't read completely through it yet.

paigeoliver · « **Reply #25 on:** October 02, 2003, 03:12:38 am »

No, neither the EULA nor anything else on the site says that you can't sign up more than once.

I still believe it is a scam myself. They have FAR too much information about their legal department. Fact is, if they had properly licensed these games, then they wouldn't even NEED to have even HALF of the text on http://www.starroms.com/about/condofuse.php

By the way, the conditions of use page lists some conditions that are not legal. Like for instance, no one on the entire internet is allowed to put the word "StarRoms" in a meta tag now. Nor can we portray StarRoms in a negative light and then link to their page.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #26 on:** October 02, 2003, 03:22:34 am »

I'm oging to read the EULA carefully. This does sound fishy. However we should know in a few days or so what this is about. A thread was started on mame.net. Someone mentioned it seems like a coincidence this site started right after mame.dk went down....

Magnet_Eye · « **Reply #27 on:** October 02, 2003, 04:50:24 am »

Well, this is a "new" thing. Maybe they are going to pave the way for a service like this. Imagine if all gaming companies offered their "extinct" roms for a small purchase price. Makes sense. They could make a few bucks this way.

Oh, BTW, you forgot to add ROAD RUNNER to the under 16 credits list! It's just 14 credits!

u_rebelscum · « **Reply #28 on:** October 02, 2003, 06:01:33 am »

What's really getting me is (unless infogames bought the rights from midway) arcade games by "Atari" are now owned by Infogames, and those by "Atari Games" are owned by Midway, IIRC. Yet both are on the list. Makes me very suspicious.

Safron · « **Reply #29 on:** October 02, 2003, 09:22:15 am »

Yeah, the more we look, the stranger it sounds.
I have an email out to them asking very specific legal questions about the licenses and owning the rights to distribute along with proof of ownership.
If they respond, I will post it.

tbombaci · « **Reply #30 on:** October 02, 2003, 09:39:03 am »

Seems very fishy. You are not actually 'buying' ROMS with legal currency. Much like the Pachinko Parlors in Japan. You win useless trinkets and trade the trinkets for Yen in some seedy shack in a nearby alleyway.

You are buying their "credits" and trading for ROMS.

-Tom

rampy · « **Reply #31 on:** October 02, 2003, 09:52:21 am »

You guys are forgetting one important thing... I saw it on Slashdot, It *must* be true

rampy

PS I'm hopeful that it's legit... I'd be wary too, as it's kinda like buying the brooklyn bridge... but this is kinda what we've been hoping for (albeit slightly higher priced IMHO) in legitimate purchasable ROM images... *shrug* I guess the key word is legititmate (even if I misspeell it)

Brax · « **Reply #32 on:** October 02, 2003, 10:23:51 am »

Quote from: paigeoliver on October 02, 2003, 02:59:59 am

I just verified that you can sign up more than once.

So the following roms are all free now, since you can sign up multiple times.

Atari Baseball
Atari Football
Atari Soccer
Avalanche
Black Widow
Cloak & Dagger
Cloud 9
Lunar Lander
Qwak
Red Baron
Super Breakout

Nice to see you've already figured out how to exploit the system and get "free" ROMs.

Not one of you would stop using any of these ROM's if you couldn't obtain a licence, I don't quite understand the excitement. Although it looks like the excitement may be about exploiting a loophole to make your formerly illegal ROM's, legal. ...for free if you can. Odd.

Lilwolf · « **Reply #33 on:** October 02, 2003, 10:29:05 am »

Yeah, without a peace of paper, you might as well download them from the newsgroups... Nobody could ever say / prove any more.

I would like to see if they will send a CD containing all 60 for a set price, and with the license at the same time. Then this would be a very very useful tool for people selling arcade machines.

Sell the machine and a $bla gift certificate for starroms for the cd to be sent to them. Boom - legal non-profit arcade machine with 60 games on it!

VERY VERY cool in my opinion... if it's not some kids who setup a CC -> paypal scam account... so they can buy more ps2 games from ebay

Safron · « **Reply #34 on:** October 02, 2003, 11:14:36 am »

Here is their email reply to me (caveat emptor):

I'm not a lawyer, but let me try to address your
questions to the best of my ability.

Q> Greetings. I am highly interested in legally owning a few ROMS. However, I have a few questions. If I purchase a ROM from you, does that legally entitle me to own a copy?

A>Yes.

Q> If I own the ROM (through a purchase from you), can I modify the ROM as I see fit, or is this a breach of the license?

A>I don't think this is allowed under the end-user-license.

Q> If your company goes under, do I still own it, or does the license expire if you do?

A>Your license would be unaffected. It is still valid.

Q> How can I prove (in a court of law) if necessary that I actually purchased and legally own the ROM I purchased from you?

A>Good question. StarROMs keeps records of all licenses issued. If your license were ever challenged, StarROMs can verify that the license was issued to you.
If you want to have something for your own records, I suggest that you print a copy of your download confirmation page, or else print out your download list.

Q> Forgive me for being a little skeptical, but we have seen many "legal ROM" sites come and go. I am all for purchasing these for legal use, but I must make sure there is actually a legal purchase (as in, you have the right to sell these Atari ROMs from the copyright holder) in case I am challenged in a court. What assurances can you make, other than a page written on a website?

A>As long as you provide accurate personal contact information when you buy from StarROMs, your purchase is 100% legal. Keep in mind, however, that the license we issue is for non-commercial personal entertainment purposes only, and is non-transferable. You are strictly forbidden from actively or passively (put on the 'net) distributing the ROMs to others. If this were to take place, your license would become void.

I hope I've been able to answer your questions to your
satisfaction. Thank you for visiting StarROMs.

StarROMs Customer Service,
William

Tiger-Heli · « **Reply #35 on:** October 02, 2003, 11:22:27 am »

Quote from: JackTucky on October 01, 2003, 10:42:19 pm

If they ever offer a certificate of authenticity, run for the hills. Those are the biggest scam on ebay.

Off-Topic, what do you mean? I was considering buying a COA for Windows XP from a software company (linked from pricewatch). Are those not legit either?

On-Topic: I agree with OSCAR and XIAOU2, I see nothing that makes me think this is legit.

JackTucky · « **Reply #36 on:** October 02, 2003, 11:47:25 am »

Quote from: Tiger-Heli on October 02, 2003, 11:22:27 am

Quote from: JackTucky on October 01, 2003, 10:42:19 pm
If they ever offer a certificate of authenticity, run for the hills. Those are the biggest scam on ebay.
Off-Topic, what do you mean? I was considering buying a COA for Windows XP from a software company (linked from pricewatch). Are those not legit either?
this is legit.

Consider that a COA is nothing but a piece of paper. Anyone can print one. I can get some trading card, sign it myself, and give you a COA from me, that it's legit. It's nothing more than me saying, "I really mean it. This is legit"

A COA is only as good as the trust you have in the person who issued it. There are some organizations that have reputations that make the COA worth something. The people who rate diamonds come to mind (GIA)?

For instance, Starroms says use your download page? That's their COA. But since no one knows who StarRoms is, what good is it?

Someone needs to call the real owner of these Roms (midway?), as an official representative of this website, and ask them if this is legit. Get your "Press" hat and go to town.

Art

jerryjanis · « **Reply #37 on:** October 02, 2003, 12:24:04 pm »

Quote from: Safron on October 02, 2003, 11:14:36 am

Q> If your company goes under, do I still own it, or does the license expire if you do?

A>Your license would be unaffected. It is still valid.

Q> How can I prove (in a court of law) if necessary that I actually purchased and legally own the ROM I purchased from you?

A>Good question. StarROMs keeps records of all licenses issued. If your license were ever challenged, StarROMs can verify that the license was issued to you.
If you want to have something for your own records, I suggest that you print a copy of your download confirmation page, or else print out your download list.

So our liscense is valid if the company goes under, there's just no way to prove it.

Nailz · « **Reply #38 on:** October 02, 2003, 12:38:38 pm »

I can't say i'd trust it at all unless it came direct from Atari, or whatever company owned the actual rom...

Did anyone else notice their "press release" was a pdf? Any press release I have ever seen lists the actual PRESS they released it to, i.e. a specific newspaper, magazine, etc. Seems prett suspicious to me.

RandyT · « **Reply #39 on:** October 02, 2003, 12:40:54 pm »

Quote from: jerryjanis on October 02, 2003, 12:24:04 pm

Quote from: Safron on October 02, 2003, 11:14:36 am
Q> If your company goes under, do I still own it, or does the license expire if you do?

A>Your license would be unaffected. It is still valid.

Q> How can I prove (in a court of law) if necessary that I actually purchased and legally own the ROM I purchased from you?

A>Good question. StarROMs keeps records of all licenses issued. If your license were ever challenged, StarROMs can verify that the license was issued to you.
If you want to have something for your own records, I suggest that you print a copy of your download confirmation page, or else print out your download list.

So our liscense is valid if the company goes under, there's just no way to prove it.

I caught that too.

For the price of some of these, I'd expect a "warmer fuzzy".

The whole "credit" thing seems odd as well. If it costs $6, put $6 on it.

RandyT


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