Disney touch sensor

[Le Chuck]

OMHFG this is going to change things

http://idealab.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/05/everything-can-be-a-touch-screen-thanks-to-disney-research.php?

[Samstag]

It only took a day for a guy to replicate it (to a lesser degree) at home: http://spritesmods.com/?art=engarde&page=1

So I expect you'll be seeing the effects much sooner than you'd think.

[ark_ader]

When you see something like this especially from Disney you feel the cool factor and your mid races with possibilities.

Then you see some guy from Hackaday doing a similar experiment will less technology, and those possibilities just got a lot more complicated.

OMHFG indeed.   

[05SRT4]

MmMmMmMm watered down cereal.

[lanman31337]

MmMmMmMm watered down cereal.

That's what you get for using skim milk.

[Vigo]

I see you're drinking 1%. Is that because you think you're fat? 'Cause you're not. You could be drinking whole if you wanted to.

[kahlid74]

Hmm, I'm not really freaking too much on it.  If you have to paint a copper based paint on a rock to make it a touch screen and you have to hook up said electric current to the rock, it's not really different than what it was before these guys made their software discovery.

To me, the impressive thing is the AI they built into their program to reliably determine what is touching and when it is touching said surface.  So this isn't really about making anything a touch screen but is more about making touchscreens billions of times more accurate and dependable.

[ark_ader]

I see you're drinking 1%. Is that because you think you're fat? 'Cause you're not. You could be drinking whole if you wanted to.

1% is not good for you.  Actually milk is not good for you at all.  Full Stop.

That said I like whipped cream. 

[Le Chuck]

Hmm, I'm not really freaking too much on it.  If you have to paint a copper based paint on a rock to make it a touch screen and you have to hook up said electric current to the rock, it's not really different than what it was before these guys made their software discovery.

To me, the impressive thing is the AI they built into their program to reliably determine what is touching and when it is touching said surface.  So this isn't really about making anything a touch screen but is more about making touchscreens billions of times more accurate and dependable.

I think it's both.  The fact that they can interpret multiple levels of signal strength from conductive objects such as metal door knobs using only a single conductive lead is pretty amazeballs.  So basically, clear conductive glass with a single lead is now able to take the place of the current clumbsy touch screen tech.  Its a software solution for a hardware interface.  The military applications alone make my head spin, imagine a night sight that only turns on when it senses it's being looked through (and not the clumbsy pressure switches of the current sights).  Imagine a radio traffic being controlled by touching rifle's upper receiver in a cetain manner.  This stuff is amazing.

[shmokes]

Yeah, the guy was using his own body as a touch surface, and as far as I could tell they didn't first spray him with copper paint.

[kahlid74]

Hmm, I'm not really freaking too much on it.  If you have to paint a copper based paint on a rock to make it a touch screen and you have to hook up said electric current to the rock, it's not really different than what it was before these guys made their software discovery.

To me, the impressive thing is the AI they built into their program to reliably determine what is touching and when it is touching said surface.  So this isn't really about making anything a touch screen but is more about making touchscreens billions of times more accurate and dependable.

I think it's both.  The fact that they can interpret multiple levels of signal strength from conductive objects such as metal door knobs using only a single conductive lead is pretty amazeballs.  So basically, clear conductive glass with a single lead is now able to take the place of the current clumbsy touch screen tech.  Its a software solution for a hardware interface.  The military applications alone make my head spin, imagine a night sight that only turns on when it senses it's being looked through (and not the clumbsy pressure switches of the current sights).  Imagine a radio traffic being controlled by touching rifle's upper receiver in a cetain manner.  This stuff is amazing.

I have a funny analogy in my mind to describe why I'm not seeing it like you do.  In portal, the ability to create portals is so freaking awesome, until you discover that you need "moon dust paint" on a wall for it to be usable.  Once you discover that it's like the whole world crashes down on you.  So I read the article and I was super hyped/excited.  Then I read that for a rock to be touchable you have to put a copper based paint on it and I was like "FUDGE.  PORTAL ALL OVER AGAIN.  DAMN YOU MOON DUST PAINT".

Either way it's good stuff.

[shmokes]

I'm only just now playing through Portal 2, but I am not given the impression that you need moon dust paint to make portals. The way I understood it is that moon dust paint simply makes an excellent (though not the only) surface on which portals can be made.

[kahlid74]

I'm only just now playing through Portal 2, but I am not given the impression that you need moon dust paint to make portals. The way I understood it is that moon dust paint simply makes an excellent (though not the only) surface on which portals can be made.

My take from Portal 2 was that EVERY surface you can put a portal on, was painted in Moon Dust.  Maybe I'm wrong?

[Vigo]

I think it is kinda ambigous. They don't ever say if everything you can portal on uses moon dust, just they discovered it worked as a portal surface.

Thinking a bit deeper, it might not only be moon dust, because in portal 1 you are escaping through back routes. It doesn't make sense that they would coat non-testing areas with moon dust. It wouldn't be the first inconsistancy between the two games though.

[shmokes]

Nah, you're definitely wrong. Cave Johnson just says that it turned out Moon dust made an excellent portal conductor. This is from the Half-Life Wiki:

At some point in the late 1970s or early 1980s, Cave Johnson, CEO of Aperture Science, somehow managed to acquire roughly $70 million worth of Moon rock. Upon grinding up and mixing it into gel, he discovered two things: one being that it made a great portal conductor, and the other being that ground Moon rock was "pure poison."

If they didn't acquire the Moon rock until at least the 1970s (and they didn't since NASA didn't even visit the Moon until 1969) it would make no sense for 1950s era sections of the Enrichment Center to have signs reminding people not to forget their Quantum Tunneling Device. And the 1950s test chambers require a portal gun to solve the tests. Moreover, there are areas all over the facility as well as outside the facility on which portals can be made--behind walls, in elevator shafts, etc. It would make no sense to just paint random non-test-chamber surfaces all over the place with moon dust. Since it makes absolutely no sense in the story, is never stated, and is never really even implied (again, Cave merely says that he discovered that Moon dust makes an excellent portal conductor), you have to assume that Valve never intended you to conclude that Moon paint is the only viable portal conductor. All signs point to concrete working just fine.

[shmokes]

Back on topic, this touch sensor similarly does not seem to require special paint. I have no doubt that, like Moon paint for portals, copper paint provides an excellent conductor for the touch sensor. But all evidence definitively shows that it is one of many surfaces that will do the trick.

[ark_ader]

Nah, you're definitely wrong. Cave Johnson just says that it turned out Moon dust made an excellent portal conductor. This is from the Half-Life Wiki:

At some point in the late 1970s or early 1980s, Cave Johnson, CEO of Aperture Science, somehow managed to acquire roughly $70 million worth of Moon rock. Upon grinding up and mixing it into gel, he discovered two things: one being that it made a great portal conductor, and the other being that ground Moon rock was "pure poison."

If they didn't acquire the Moon rock until at least the 1970s (and they didn't since NASA didn't even visit the Moon until 1969) it would make no sense for 1950s era sections of the Enrichment Center to have signs reminding people not to forget their Quantum Tunneling Device. And the 1950s test chambers require a portal gun to solve the tests. Moreover, there are areas all over the facility as well as outside the facility on which portals can be made--behind walls, in elevator shafts, etc. It would make no sense to just paint random non-test-chamber surfaces all over the place with moon dust. Since it makes absolutely no sense in the story, is never stated, and is never really even implied (again, Cave merely says that he discovered that Moon dust makes an excellent portal conductor), you have to assume that Valve never intended you to conclude that Moon paint is the only viable portal conductor. All signs point to concrete working just fine.

Wow. 

[shmokes]

Don't be jealous.

[fallacy]

 

[RayB]

this stuff is crap. they just assigned nice little english phrases to what boils down to ranges of resistence. The computer doesnt know the hand is actually under water, all it knows is that the hand touched the plate at the bottom of the tank, creating more conductivty than the hand touching only water (which it didn't even detect).

The tech for body conductivity has been around for decades. I used to have this little toy light that would come on if you touched two metal pads on it with your skin. You could also touch one, have someone else touch the other and when you touched each other it would complete the circuit and the light lit. All Disney is doing here is measuring the conductivity and applying fuzzy logic to it (remember that buzzword from the 90's?).

I'll be impressed when the real world examples they give don't require memorization of specific "actions". he beauty of an iphone screen is how intuitive the touching interface is. If with this stuff we have to memorize hand gestures for specific results, then we're right back at something equivalent to Palm Pilot "Graffiti" (if you know what I mean).

[ark_ader]

this stuff is crap. they just assigned nice little english phrases to what boils down to ranges of resistence. The computer doesnt know the hand is actually under water, all it knows is that the hand touched the plate at the bottom of the tank, creating more conductivty than the hand touching only water (which it didn't even detect).

The tech for body conductivity has been around for decades. I used to have this little toy light that would come on if you touched two metal pads on it with your skin. You could also touch one, have someone else touch the other and when you touched each other it would complete the circuit and the light lit. All Disney is doing here is measuring the conductivity and applying fuzzy logic to it (remember that buzzword from the 90's?).

I'll be impressed when the real world examples they give don't require memorization of specific "actions". he beauty of an iphone screen is how intuitive the touching interface is. If with this stuff we have to memorize hand gestures for specific results, then we're right back at something equivalent to Palm Pilot "Graffiti" (if you know what I mean).

It's all a conspiracy, right Ray? 

[shmokes]

this stuff is crap. they just assigned nice little english phrases to what boils down to ranges of resistence. The computer doesnt know the hand is actually under water, all it knows is that the hand touched the plate at the bottom of the tank, creating more conductivty than the hand touching only water (which it didn't even detect).

The tech for body conductivity has been around for decades. I used to have this little toy light that would come on if you touched two metal pads on it with your skin. You could also touch one, have someone else touch the other and when you touched each other it would complete the circuit and the light lit. All Disney is doing here is measuring the conductivity and applying fuzzy logic to it (remember that buzzword from the 90's?).

I'll be impressed when the real world examples they give don't require memorization of specific "actions". he beauty of an iphone screen is how intuitive the touching interface is. If with this stuff we have to memorize hand gestures for specific results, then we're right back at something equivalent to Palm Pilot "Graffiti" (if you know what I mean).

This reminds me of people who look at Picassos and disdainfully and remark, "That's dumb. I could have done that." I mean, are computers crap? After all, all they're doing is running electricity through transistors to switch signals; they've been doing that with vacuum tubes since like 1910. The point isn't that someone here has discovered a new chemical element. The point is that they had an idea about how we can do some really great new things easily and inexpensively. The iPhone didn't change everything by being technologically revolutionary. There's not a single piece of hardware in the iPhone that hadn't been used before. But it was a combination of hardware and software and commerce ecosystem that allowed us to do things we weren't currently doing.

And, by the way, that toy you had as a boy was much more like current touch screen tech. It wasn't measuring "ranges of resistance". It was giving you a binary on/off reading. That's exactly what the screen of your iPhone does. But when touch screen phones came out were you like, "This is stupid. They had the tech to do this when I was a little kid."

[shmokes]

It's all a conspiracy, right Ray? 

Do you even know what a conspiracy is? I know you don't believe me ark, but your use of the rolly eyes guy consistently . . . I mean pretty much every single time you use it, makes you seem to be mentally retarded.

[Samstag]

The potential benefits of this technology really are limitless.

[kahlid74]

Nah, you're definitely wrong. Cave Johnson just says that it turned out Moon dust made an excellent portal conductor. This is from the Half-Life Wiki:

At some point in the late 1970s or early 1980s, Cave Johnson, CEO of Aperture Science, somehow managed to acquire roughly $70 million worth of Moon rock. Upon grinding up and mixing it into gel, he discovered two things: one being that it made a great portal conductor, and the other being that ground Moon rock was "pure poison."

If they didn't acquire the Moon rock until at least the 1970s (and they didn't since NASA didn't even visit the Moon until 1969) it would make no sense for 1950s era sections of the Enrichment Center to have signs reminding people not to forget their Quantum Tunneling Device. And the 1950s test chambers require a portal gun to solve the tests. Moreover, there are areas all over the facility as well as outside the facility on which portals can be made--behind walls, in elevator shafts, etc. It would make no sense to just paint random non-test-chamber surfaces all over the place with moon dust. Since it makes absolutely no sense in the story, is never stated, and is never really even implied (again, Cave merely says that he discovered that Moon dust makes an excellent portal conductor), you have to assume that Valve never intended you to conclude that Moon paint is the only viable portal conductor. All signs point to concrete working just fine.

I stand corrected!

Back on topic, this touch sensor similarly does not seem to require special paint. I have no doubt that, like Moon paint for portals, copper paint provides an excellent conductor for the touch sensor. But all evidence definitively shows that it is one of many surfaces that will do the trick.

One of many surfaces sure, but the guy basically states it won't work on a rock without the copper paint.  My point was more that I was expecting the touch to work on everything only to find out it only works on conductive surfaces.  So kind of deflated my excitement with the idea.

[shmokes]

only to find out it only works on conductive surfaces. 

Yes, but they don't have to be very conductive. It obviously works on bananas, for example. And water. And a tabletop that does not appear to be made of metal. In the end, how could anything transmit data over a non-conductive medium? That's physically impossible. Well . . . maybe if you had a Quantum Tunneling Device it could be done. 

[Le Chuck]

only to find out it only works on conductive surfaces. 

So the springs in your couch detect your fat ass rather than the cushion itself.  We are surrounded by conductive surfaces and your entire body is one.  The sensor can be calibrated to tell what sort of non conductive item you're interacting with based on interuption in your electronic field. 

[RayB]

derrrrr...   

[Le Chuck]

derrrrr...   

The computer doesnt know the hand is actually under water, all it knows is that the hand touched the plate at the bottom of the tank, creating more conductivty than the hand touching only water...

Wait, so you're saying that the computer isn't self aware and only interprets electrical impulses via a strict set of complex programing cues?

Nevermind.  I thought this was cool but you've convinced me.  Somebody wake me when the computer can philosophically explain why the hand is in the water. 

[RayB]

Asses.

This more impressive:

[Le Chuck]

Vaporware!  Preorder mumbojumbo!  See it when I believe it!

[RayB]

Here, this one does exactly what the disney crap does. Its cheap and shows how simple the tech really is (and hey, it has BYOAC applications too!)

http://www.makeymakey.com/

[Le Chuck]

Here, this one does exactly what the disney crap does. Its cheap and shows how simple the tech really is (and hey, it has BYOAC applications too!)

http://www.makeymakey.com/

Thanks for the link.  Just signed up for the deluxe kit.

This doesn't do what the disney crap does Ray but it is wicked cool and I'm getting one.  If you have a software suite that can replicate the field interpretation that disney has come up with that'd be awesome.     

[shmokes]

Ray, why are you so agro about this?

[ark_ader]

Ray, why are you so agro about this?

Why are you always wanting attention Jake? 

Get yourself a hobby. 

[Le Chuck]

Ray, why are you so agro about this?

Why are you always wanting attention Jake? 

Get yourself a hobby. 

Ark, why are you always poking shmokes and rolling your eyes like you're in on a secret.

[Vigo]

Ray, why are you so agro about this?

Why are you always wanting attention Jake? 

Get yourself a hobby. 

Ark, why are you always poking shmokes and rolling your eyes like you're in on a secret.

Le Chuck, why are you hating on Ark's use of the rolling eyes smiley then subsequently using that smiley yourself? 

[ark_ader]

Ray, why are you so agro about this?

Why are you always wanting attention Jake?  

Get yourself a hobby.  

Ark, why are you always poking shmokes and rolling your eyes like you're in on a secret.

Le Chuck, why are you hating on Ark's use of the rolling eyes smiley then subsequently using that smiley yourself?  

Vigo why are you asking Le Chuck about that damned roll eye smiley I keep having to use on Jake?  

[Dartful Dodger]

Micheal Jackson was also developing Disney touch sensor technology.

[RayB]

This doesn't do what the disney crap does Ray but it is wicked cool and I'm getting one.  If you have a software suite that can replicate the field interpretation that disney has come up with that'd be awesome.   

There's no "field interpretation". That's what annoys me about the Disney video and the idiots at Gizmodo drooling over it. The video makes it LOOK sophisticated, when in reality it's not much different than this cheap "turn a banana into a button" tech.

The only sophistication is perhaps in programming the software to recognize certain ranges of conductivity to "mean things" but really, if you've ever programmed anything, you know that's not a difficult task. Detect a range of values, look it up in an array/table/dictionary and assign it the most appropriate event for that data range. Pretty basic stuff. If their software "learns", then ok, I'll give some credit.