Hitting a mental and financial wall on the cab.... Advice?

[harveybirdman]

 

I can see that this is getting out of hand....

When I started this I thought, hey I have an extra PC, and my dad has a shop fool of all the tools needed to make the cabinet that I have in mind a reality.

So far I'm only into this project about 60 bucks in control panel components, thank you RandyT!  Bud as I start thinking about every little expense for what I want to accomplish the price-tag for this thing is starting to piss me off... 

Concern 1)  Building materials:  Thinking about birch plywood or MDF for my machine.  I plan to only make it two foot square but that's going to take at least two sheets.  Now I could paint the thing, but I HATE painting, I mean I loathe it seriously.  So I definitely want to go white laminate, which is about 30 bucks a sheet at Lowe's and I'd need three or more sheets of that to laminate inside and out.  Now luckily the old man has a good stock of two by fours and 1 x 6 for battens and such but still we're talking easily 160 to 200 bucks.

Concern 2) The Pentium 4 I have is really starting to cramp my style.  I mean I can live with out Dead or Alive 2, especially since I have epsxe running some of the 3D games that Mame can't due to the craptacularness of my pc.  BUT I draw the line at not letting me play Cotton 2 or Cotton Bomerang.  Maybe their is something else besides the CPU that is going on that's causing some games to run slow like RAM or video card issues but I'm in the middle of a rant here and it's not like I'm asking you to run NFL BLITZ you stupid piece of crap!   You won't even play Sly Spy, Brave Blade, or Gradius 4. Screw you Pentium 4! I could EASILY spend 400 or 500 bucks getting a faster PC together and it would be overkill I'm sure.

Concern 3) I still need a controls interface (which I can't decide on, someone please help), light for marquee, smart power strip, oh and sound system....  Plus right now I'm not even considering a coin door, which i really want.

Concern 4) when I finally get all this stuff in a working cabinet I have to go through the exercise of configuring MALA and shelling windows....

This is all feeling a bit daunting as a feel I've not gotten anything done on the cab this weekend.
 

[SavannahLion]

If the financial portion is too much of a burden then (sorry BYOAC, I MUST say this) are you sure this is the right hobby for you?

With that out of the way, if you've answered yes, then you have a classic A, B, C problem where you can pick two of the three. They are:
Cheap
Fast
Good (or well for the grammar police )
Therfor.....
If you want it cheap and fast, it's not going to be good.
If you want it cheap and good, it's not going to be done fast.
If you want it done fast and good, it's not going to be cheap.

Since money is an issue, that precludes option #3 and since you want a nice cab (I assume) then #1 is out. That leaves you #2.

Divide your cab into modular components that you can work on. You kind of hint at it in your post but you're focusing on the most expensive rather than the cheapest. So.... Software is super cheap, so work on your MAME configuration and front end. You already have your CP parts so you can spend time hashing out your layouts and experimenting to see which layout you like.

Meanwhile, for the parts that cost the penny, figure out ways to get that cash. Sell blood, work a second or side job, ask for overtime. Reduce your bills. Things like is TV really that important? How about that Starbucks? Taco Bell/McDonalds/Whatever? Girlfriends/boyfriends/gayfriends are iffy. Do you like sex or gaming more? Do you really need that college education? What about those toys you never play with anymore? Do you really need furniture? (Note: For a long time I only had three pieces of furniture. Couch, computer desk and entertainment center. I did have a bed at one time but... long story, never mind. I actually did not need anything else.) Sock that money away until you have enough to buy the parts. And as always.... watch for those deals wherever you can find them. Craigslist. Ebay. Whatever. Don't just look for the deals that go directly towards your cab but look for the ones you can part out and sell. I got funds for my first cab by obtaining a whole slew of cheap and free cabs to which I parted out and sold on eBay. Be careful what parts you pick up though. I have a fiberglass racer seat that I paid for that absolutely no one wants and because the economy took a ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---, it's far easier to find the craptastic "Perfect $1800 MAME cabs" than the cabs from people just quitting the hobby or business.

Three of my biggest projects were put on the back burner because I decided to have kids. Go figure. Now I can't bring them "forward," not because of money per se, but because my wife insists on having "furniture." Why the ---fudgesicle--- do we need a dining room table?! Nobody ever eats at it.

[drventure]

SavanahLion's advice is spot on.

For me, there's 2 big aspects of Mame and these arcade machines:
1) Being able to play some retro games ( in all honesty though, this isn't a huge thing for me)
2) Building something that can play Mame games

The build (and everything from gathering parts to putting the plan together to execution) is one of the main fun parts for me.

If you've got mame running on a pc, then that parts done, and it's not going anywhere.

Take your time, think through what would be best to tackle next, that you have funds for, etc, work on little bits at a time. and enjoy the process.

If you're getting frustrated with it, where's the fun in that? Heck, I've got a box full of vacuum tubes I fashioned into nixie tubes about 3 years ago. Still haven't actually mounted them in my cabinet (they're for the marquee).

But it'll get there eventually.

[ark_ader]

Do what I did.  Take your cab outside, get an axe and chop it up (remove the good stuff first) then get some lighter fluid and have yourself a nice little bonfire.

You will feel better.  I know I did. 

[DaveMMR]

My original cabinet took a few years to actually become playable because of the expense in the little things I "insisted" on (Electric Ice buttons, custom artwork, etc.)  Even just the wood was a small investment to someone who didn't have two nickels to rub together.

While not the most expensive hobby one could have (collecting art I'm sure would put a deeper dent in the wallet), it's is still not cheap. This is not just building arcade cabs but any sort of video gaming - be it PS3 or Mame or Atari VCS.

+1 to SavanahLion's advice. Get extra money and put it aside towards a MAME fund. Build little-by-little. Yes you need some money but not as much as you may think ($500 - $1000 can build you a very good cab that's fully functional, especially if you scope out deals on the stuff you need/want.)

[Rok]

Maybe look into a bar top? That's what I did and it ended up much cheaper in supplies. This of course can limit your computer options, however.

Another option you could consider...I originally just built a control panel and hooked it up to my computer. Much much cheaper.

[CheffoJeffo]

Do what I did.  Take your cab outside, get an axe and chop it up (remove the good stuff first) then get some lighter fluid and have yourself a nice little bonfire.

You will feel better.  I know I did. 

And this is why NOBODY ever takes advice from ark ... 

[harveybirdman]

Thanks for the advice, I know all to well about the wife that wants "furniture."  

I think I was just getting frustrated last night and needed to vent.

I think I can get into a i3-2120 machine at a reasonable price eventually, I think I'm just going to focus on the cabinet build for now.  The Pentium can run tons of games so I should stop complaining.

Now that I have the benefit of sleep, I have decided to keep my attention on the controls for now.  Therefore I'm still am interested in advice on what interface to get.

I will have a 2 player panel 6 game buttons per player, plus buttons for coin in and player start for each, and between two to four admin buttons. My current PC doesn't have a ps2 input and I want to have a keyboard hidden in the cab.

Suggestions?

[AGarv]

Thanks for the advice, I know all to well about the wife that wants "furniture."  

I think I was just getting frustrated last night and needed to vent.

I think I can get into a i3-2120 machine at a reasonable price eventually, I think I'm just going to focus on the cabinet build for now.  The Pentium can run tons of games so I should stop complaining.

Now that I have the benefit of sleep, I have decided to keep my attention on the controls for now.  Therefore I'm still am interested in advice on what interface to get.

I will have a 2 player panel 6 game buttons per player, plus buttons for coin in and player start for each, and between two to four admin buttons. My current PC doesn't have a ps2 input and I want to have a keyboard hidden in the cab.

Suggestions?

For your controls interface, are you absolutely, 110% sure you have them mapped out to your final design?  You didn't mention a trackball or spinner, so an inexpensive joystick emulator could work well.

[harveybirdman]

For your controls interface, are you absolutely, 110% sure you have them mapped out to your final design?  You didn't mention a trackball or spinner, so an inexpensive joystick emulator could work well.

Right now the plan is to use an already owned 19in computer monitor which leaves a maximum width of about 24inches before the thing starts to look silly.  So while I'd like to have a trackball one day, I've ruled it out for this build. 

I like some spinner games but the money it would cost to put one on my panel would go a long way to building materials so, I'm definitely leaving that off this time.

[PL1]

I'm reminded of the old ad where the guy said, "You can pay me now, or you can pay me later."

If you intend to add a trackball and/or spinner, buy the encoder for where you eventually want to be. If you don't, you may end up spending much more by the time you get all the upgrade parts.

If you want to be able to easily add or adjust the panel configuration and contents, a modular design is a great way to go. You will invest a bit more up front, but you have way more flexibility later.

Here's a version of the venerable Doc's Modular idea:

It uses 6"x 8" removable/swappable panels.  Protip: Make more panel blanks than you think you need. (Future expansion, build errors, enthusiastic players. . . .)

On the trackball panel, you can see holddown tabs--made from cutting up L-brackets--on the underside of the panels.

The grey holddown bar is 3/4" aluminum square stock with holes drilled to allow knobs (orange) with threaded shafts to tighten into tee nuts below.

To swap panels, unscrew the holddown bar knobs and lift it out. panels slide back and lift out.

You can start with the Mini-Pac Opti. and harness.  Later on, you can add a U-Trak that plugs into the harness.

A TT2 spinner with its own USB encoder can be added whenever you like. You won't want to put a spinner on the Z-axis due to the way windows handles the inputs.

One last tip that may save you some big money on a triggerstick: Paradise Arcade's Import Flight Stick
http://www.paradisearcadeshop.com/en/imported-joysticks/299-import-flight-stick.html

Scott

[Brian74]

I started this journey back in 2010. I bought a cab from a guy who was going to do the same as I was but lost interest in it. I got the sanded down cab with a 20 inch crt monitor. I ended up with a 2 player 6 button each. The more research I did I knew that wasnt enough controls. So I made my control panel bigger, was still 2 players 6 buttons but i added a trackball and a 4way. Here it is almost 2 yrs later to the day. That cab not sits in my garage because I wasnt happy with the screen size. I bought a gutted golden tee/silver strike cab and a 26 inch lcd. The lcd fit but the viewing angle was all wrong, it looked washed out. So here I am, sitting here with a almost complete Taz slim cab. To trick it out I bought 25 Clear IL Translucent Pushbutton PSL-L from paradise arcade. I also got Electric ICE™ RGB Trackball Lighting Upgrade Kit and 2 led-wiz from groovy game gear. My pc has been upgrade over the yrs too. So if you build something, try to build it where you can upgrade it. Make the holes for a spinner and a 4 way if you want them later. Just plug them in the cp til you have the $, same with the trackball. you can but the hole and route it get a mounting plate. The plexiglas will cover the hole anyway.

[Brian74]

Here is a picture of my 2nd cp

[eds1275]

What others have said is pretty good advice. Have you considered going LCD? You could get a 4:3 LCD for cheap or free if you look hard enough. Then you can slim it down and make both sides of your machine out of 1 4x8 sheet of plywood, and the front and back out of another. Maybe leave the lower back side of the cab completely open if it'll be back against a wall. It allows easy access for the PC and makes less work building a removable panel or door.

On both of the cabs I made, I made the control panel fit between the sides of the cab. It looks cleaner to me than having wings extend out from the cab. My control panels need no sides, back, or bottom and are not [easily] removable - they have no extra bits like hinges and are easily accessed from the inside. Though I didn't do this to cut cost, it sort of happened on it's own.

As for the upgrading of your computer, maybe try going back to an earlier version of mame. Many of the games ran better on older versions. Perhaps boost the ram up. Try shutting down services and startup items that aren't needed.

Anyways, best of luck. Here's the dimensions of my Spinal Tap cab if you are interested.

[BobA]

Brian74, try turning your LCD upside down.   The view from the top is usually alot less washed out then the view from the bottom.   This is because we view the screen either evenly or from some height.   Since we do not sit at a desk that lets us look uo thru the keyboard the view from below is cr#p.

[AGarv]

BobA, great I dea about turning the LCD upside down for an angled cabinet display - never thought of that!

[alfonzotan]

Any particular reason why you're planning to laminate both inside and out?  I'm a huge laminate advocate, but covering the interior seems like a waste of money and effort... I mean, it'll look fantastic when you have the door open, but otherwise, who's going to see it?

Adding to that, if you aren't going to have any exposed wood anyway, why spend the premium to get birch plywood or heavy MDF?  Get the cheap pine stuff instead, it's lighter, and the laminate will look great even laid up on a C-grade surface (just be sure to pick out flat sheets--which is a pain in the store, but worth it once you get home).

Caveat:  MDF is the best choice for a control panel surface.  Even, flat and it won't change shape with age.  Worth the weight and the sawdust...

[wivelden]

Brian74, try turning your LCD upside down.   The view from the top is usually alot less washed out then the view from the bottom.   This is because we view the screen either evenly or from some height.   Since we do not sit at a desk that lets us look uo thru the keyboard the view from below is cr#p.

I did this on my cocktail cab and it looks a whole lot better. Dont forget to rotate the display 180 degrees in the graphic settings too.

[harveybirdman]

Any particular reason why you're planning to laminate both inside and out?  I'm a huge laminate advocate, but covering the interior seems like a waste of money and effort... I mean, it'll look fantastic when you have the door open, but otherwise, who's going to see it?

Adding to that, if you aren't going to have any exposed wood anyway, why spend the premium to get birch plywood or heavy MDF?  Get the cheap pine stuff instead, it's lighter, and the laminate will look great even laid up on a C-grade surface (just be sure to pick out flat sheets--which is a pain in the store, but worth it once you get home).

Caveat:  MDF is the best choice for a control panel surface.  Even, flat and it won't change shape with age.  Worth the weight and the sawdust...

I understand what you are saying, in this case though the reveal will be visable on the cabinet's exterior at the top and back using my current design.  PlusI don't just want to build a functional cabinet, I also want it to turn a few heads.  I mean I'll never be able to top some of the craftsmen here because I'm not nearly smart or tech savy enough to even approach some of the innovation I've seen.

I've decided that based on input from Agarv, PL1, and several others that I'm going to make the panel modular without looking modular.  Since the control panel is small say 2' x 7.5" the interface will need to be mounted lower in the machine. I see no reason not to take advantage of this and use a batten with a slot cut in it for a tab on the panel to ride in. Then it can be held in place with a chest latch instead of screws and other panels with the same tab can be hot swapped out.  So I may have for example a second 2' x 7.5" panel with a trackball, two rotaries, and three player buttons per stick...

It will cost more for additional interfaces, but that can be part of a phase II upgrade, but the architechture will be there to support swapping panels, even though I may only make one panel now and as far as anyone will be able to tell from the outside it won't look modular.  I drew it out but I'm at work, i'll post pics when I can.