Just getting started...can you veterans start a (new) newbie thread?

[P-chan]

I've run MAME in the past many times, have built many computers, but I am about to start building a dedicated MAME cab with a real control panel.

Since this is often going to be the first stop for newbies who are building their own cabinets, can we put together an updated, comprehensive thread on the very basics, such as :

What are the recommended choices for the most common 4/8 way joystick controls (I'm guessing probably J-stik, U360, and something else)?

What are the "best" buttons to use?  I understand that "best" is a subjective term, but again - in each category (backlit, convex, concave, flat, microswitch, leaf) what's recommended?

Also maybe a tutorial on which MAME version works best with which frontend, how to check your ROM compatibility with each, and configure it correctly? 

I have to imagine for nearly every single MAME cabinet build, we're all using almost the same hardware, right (some kind of Windows machine, along with an I-pac2 and joystick/buttons/etc.)  Theoretically, this should make it a little simpler to write something up that will apply to 95%+ of builders.

Also, what retailers/websites to buy from?  I read the sticky about RAM controls, but what about others like Ultimarc or http://www.arcadeshop.de/ or straight from Suzo-Happ?  Are they reliable/overpriced/fast shipping/good customer service?

I also understand that everyone will have their opinion, and opinions differ, but I'm also pretty sure that on a lot of this stuff there will be a pretty obvious consensus on what to use, or at least, what NOT to use 


Sorry for the long post, I hope I'm not out of line....I've looked for recommendations and all the "FAQ" threads seem to be pretty old.

[CheffoJeffo]

I heard that somebody wrote a couple of books on this subject ... 

And there is always The Wiki

Asking what the best choices for joysticks, buttons, versions of MAME etc is problematic -- you invariably get either holy wars or graveyard threads -- the questions get asked SOOOOO often and there is no single right answer. People either dive in or ignore (and in some cases, the most experienced just ignore the thread). If you do ask, be sure to include what types of games you want to play.

As far as Vendors go, RTW.

You aren't at all out of line, but it certainly ain't close to being cut-and-dried either.

BTW -- welcome to the hobsession!

 

[Donkbaca]

Really, there are plenty of ways to get it done, and lots of pro's and cons. I would suggest browsing the projects section and finding something you like and then tweaking it.  That's what I did with my cab.  I am surprised you didn't start with the whole MDF or plywood, paint or laminate? questions.

If you really want a good noob guide, buy Saint's book, its a good walk through.

What are the recommended choices for the most common 4/8 way joystick controls (I'm guessing probably J-stik, U360, and something else)?

There are none, depends on what games you want to play and what you personally prefer

What are the "best" buttons to use?  I understand that "best" is a subjective term, but again - in each category (backlit, convex, concave, flat, microswitch, leaf) what's recommended?

Ditto with above joystick questions.  Really with buttons the main thing is what kind of games are you going to play.  FWIW, Other than concave or convex, or lit/unlit, buttons don't matter, its the switches that matter more, and here again its a lot of personal preference.

Also maybe a tutorial on which MAME version works best with which frontend, how to check your ROM compatibility with each, and configure it correctly?

I don't think mame versions matter with front ends.  Most front ends let you configure things pretty easily, as for ROM versions, there is always ClrMAMEpro, but that's a pain in the ass.  Its easiest to just to get the latest MAME version and romset, I think.

I have to imagine for nearly every single MAME cabinet build, we're all using almost the same hardware, right (some kind of Windows machine, along with an I-pac2 and joystick/buttons/etc.)  Theoretically, this should make it a little simpler to write something up that will apply to 95%+ of builders.

I would say that probably 90% of builds use Windows XP, with the rest being linux and windows 7.  I wouldn't say most use an Ipac 2, there are TONS of interface options.  I use hacked xbox 360 pads in one, and also have a LONO for another build, and an x-arcade if I ever do a third.

Also, what retailers/websites to buy from?  I read the sticky about RAM controls, but what about others like Ultimarc or http://www.arcadeshop.de/ or straight from Suzo-Happ?  Are they reliable/overpriced/fast shipping/good customer service?

The stickies in the buy/sell/trade section pretty much cover this

I also understand that everyone will have their opinion, and opinions differ, but I'm also pretty sure that on a lot of this stuff there will be a pretty obvious consensus on what to use, or at least, what NOT to use 

Nope, there really is no consensus.  People are all over the place.  Truth is, most of the stuff is going be decent quality stuff, there isn't anything you are going to get from a reputable place that is garbage.  Its all really just preference and what sorts of bells and whistles you want.

Sorry for the long post, I hope I'm not out of line....I've looked for recommendations and all the "FAQ" threads seem to be pretty old.

[Vigo]

If you really want a good noob guide, buy Saint's book, its a good walk through.

+1 Even if you don't think you will need it much, it is a great addition...or a gift for someone you want to bring into the hobby.

Sorry for the long post, I hope I'm not out of line....I've looked for recommendations and all the "FAQ" threads seem to be pretty old.

Again, +1. I personally think the FAQ needs to be updated, moved to the Wiki so anyone can edit, and linked in a very obvious fashion so that every noob can see what all the big questions are upfront.

[Donkbaca]

Yeah I think at some point a quick faq and a cleaned up wiki would be helpful too.  maybe a Newbs section

[CheffoJeffo]

Good news Donk ... You are cleared to edit the wiki ... Just like everybody else here. Get to it!

Until very recently, we had a newb section ... Other than folks like BobA, very few of the experienced folks helped out.

[Donkbaca]

Yeah, what happened to the newb section?  We should bring that back and just sticky some common threads in there, or put a link to Saints book on amazon.

I am flattered by you asking me to edit the wiki, we should get a committee together, I would actually be a go for this once tax season has cleared up

[Donkbaca]

Hey P-chan, why don't you list or PM me a list of things you have questions about or have to consider and I'll give a go at the wiki in about 10 days or so.

[Trip]

I'm a noob too, I found I got much better answers from these yahoos when I asked a few more pointed questions.  You may want to try that. 

Like figure out if you want to build the cabinet, do you want light up buttons, what games are you looking to play, if you don't want to build - do you want a kit or a refurbed old cabinet.  Just give them more specific info and they may give you an answer to your question.   Good luck, I suck at carpentry and always get hurt when I attempt it, so I decided to get a local to refurb an old NBA Jam cabinet for me and let handle all the internals.

[Nephasth]

Good news Donk ... You are cleared to edit the wiki ... Just like everybody else here. Get to it!

Until very recently, we had a newb section ... Other than folks like BobA, very few of the experienced folks helped out.

With all the electrical questions from people affraid of electricity, I've been pretty tempted to put in a good chunk on basic electrical...

[CheffoJeffo]

I am flattered by you asking me to edit the wiki, we should get a committee together, I would actually be a go for this once tax season has cleared up

Everybody is already cleared to edit the wiki. Your forum login gets you in.

As far as a committee goes -- there is this forum called Wiki Discussion.

Who knows, you may even get some cool stars like Le Chuck!

[Le Chuck]

Which reminds me, I'm a total assbag because I haven't put up the wireless trigger stick entry yet.  If I don't do it by the end of this weekend please heckle until I comply. 

[Vigo]

I have been wondering, can whole pages be added without much trouble? I have come across a few instances where I think there is a whole chunk missing of something I think could be useful (can't think of anything off the top of my head at the moment).

I've also been wanting to add my encoders to the wiki, being that it is free advertising and all, and hopefully informative at the same time. Is that sort of thing frowned upon, the self promoting your wares on the wiki?

[Ond]

Everybody is already cleared to edit the wiki. Your forum login gets you in.
Who knows, you may even get some cool stars like Le Chuck!

Is that how you get those? (I'm such a noob).

[Le Chuck]

I have been wondering, can whole pages be added without much trouble? I have come across a few instances where I think there is a whole chunk missing of something I think could be useful (can't think of anything off the top of my head at the moment).

I've also been wanting to add my encoders to the wiki, being that it is free advertising and all, and hopefully informative at the same time. Is that sort of thing frowned upon, the self promoting your wares on the wiki?

Without getting to into the wiki weeds it's really easy to add a page under whatever group or subgroup you want.  Best to start is open a page you'd like to emulate, open for edit, copy, edit in a text editor, create new subgroup and paste.  There may be better ways but that is a really quick and easy one with good results.  Photo uploads and all that takes a bit of doin the first time but after that it's gravy.  Head to the wiki discussion and you can get it step by step... or go read the wiki on wiki writing    


PBJ - get after it  

Everybody is already cleared to edit the wiki. Your forum login gets you in.
Who knows, you may even get some cool stars like Le Chuck!

Is that how you get those? (I'm such a noob).

Wiki entry one from OND:  How to prep MDF for chrome

[P-chan]

Thanks for all the feedback, guys!  I'm glad to see that this thread (possibly in some tiny way) may prompt some wiki-editing

I'm pretty comfortable with woodwork, which is why I didn't start with the plywood/MDF/laminate/paint questions.  I've already decided I am going with painted MDF, simple black (plenty of primer/sanding/good quality paint coats) with red T-molding.  I know I need to buy a router, I've been looking for an excuse anyway.

As far as games I'm looking to play, I would have to say it's probably going to be pretty evenly split between fighting games (Capcom/MK/SNK) and old school arcade games (Donkey Kong/Rampage/Pac-man and the like).  I'm not a huge fan of shootemups.

I will probably also put some console emu's on this box, most likely just NES/Genesis/TG-16 for a Mario/Sonic/Bonk fix.  These probably won't get played often, but they're fun and don't take up much space.

My monitor is likely going to be a widescreen HDTV that's on a rotatable mount on the wall in front of my cabinet.  The cab will be a 1/2 height cab, basically a box with a control panel on top.  I feel it's important to have the right aspect (vertical for games like Pac-man, Donkey Kong, Galaga, etc) and horizontal for fighting games and consoles.  I'm sure someone's done this, any tips would be appreciated.  When I'm done, it should look something like this :



Anyway, any advice is appreciated.  Hopefully I'll learn something during this project and be able to give some info back to some noobs down the road.

[Donkbaca]

I hate to be negative, but I think the wiki is pretty much garbage a lot of it is out of date and its very disorganized, and the search function on this site is frustrating.  I think it would help a lot if we got our asses in gear and cleaned up the wiki, I'll work on it when I have the time to do so.

We should really fix this thing to prevent all the same questions that pop up over and over again. 

Vigo - I don't think what you are saying is out of line, as long as you don't bash other options, or misrepresent anything.

As far as games I'm looking to play, I would have to say it's probably going to be pretty evenly split between fighting games (Capcom/MK/SNK) and old school arcade games (Donkey Kong/Rampage/Pac-man and the like).  I'm not a huge fan of shootemups.

Here you are going to have some joystick issues as the best fighting game joysticks are usually looser, 8-way joysticks that make it easy to hit corners, whereas a lot of the old school games use 4 way sticks where if a corner is pressed, the game basically goes, "WTF?" and all movement ceases.  You can either add a dedicated 4 way, ( I hate this option, its confusing to have a bunch of joysticks in my opinion, but that is my opinion) or you can have some sort of switchable stick, or get a U360 that auto switches.  I would probably go U-360, they are pricier, but remember that you don't need an encoder with them.

I will probably also put some console emu's on this box, most likely just NES/Genesis/TG-16 for a Mario/Sonic/Bonk fix.  These probably won't get played often, but they're fun and don't take up much space.

I had emulators on mine when I built it, then took them out, too akward to play with a joystick, but since your TV is going to be walll mounted.  I suggest you go blue tooth PS3 controllers, or get a cheap wireless receiver from e-bay and use xbox 360 controllers.  Its the best way to do console emu.

My monitor is likely going to be a widescreen HDTV that's on a rotatable mount on the wall in front of my cabinet.  The cab will be a 1/2 height cab, basically a box with a control panel on top.  I feel it's important to have the right aspect (vertical for games like Pac-man, Donkey Kong, Galaga, etc) and horizontal for fighting games and consoles.  I'm sure someone's done this, any tips would be appreciated.  When I'm done, it should look something like this :

Tv's don't like to be rotated like that, they aren't designed to be viewed at those angles.  I say, ditch the rotation. The screen should be big enough to play the veritcal games just fine.  Remember these vertical classics were on like 17 and 19 inch screens.

[Vigo]

I hate to be negative, but I think the wiki is pretty much garbage a lot of it is out of date and its very disorganized, and the search function on this site is frustrating.  I think it would help a lot if we got our asses in gear and cleaned up the wiki, I'll work on it when I have the time to do so.

We should really fix this thing to prevent all the same questions that pop up over and over again. 

Vigo - I don't think what you are saying is out of line, as long as you don't bash other options, or misrepresent anything.

I hate to say it, but I totally agree. The wiki not doing so great, and it is partially my fault. Next time I get a chance (Tax season affects me, too.) I will start by adding my encoders, those I know. Hopefully I will be able to add a number of useful additions to the Wiki.

[BadMouth]

How many accountants we got on this ship anyhow!?!

[Vigo]

Haha, I'm not an accountant....well scratch that, I am some sort of mutant para-accounting/tax/HR/payroll/project management hybrid. A freak of a monster created by company layoffs and constantly being the one left behind take on the ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- end of the stick. I am trapped in a limbo of undying, waiting eons to be put out of my misery, but will never feel that sweet release because my annual salary would probably be higher if I went to work in one of our restaurants to scrub dishes. Right now I am feeling the scourge of thousands of restaurant employees only now realizing that they should not have thrown out their W2's, tormented by H&R block seasonal temp employees questioning me on what each block of the W2 means, and fending off hellish threats from employees whose souls burn with fury that they have to pay the IRS because they took 15 allowances on their W4...yet blame me.
 

[BadMouth]

<- Tax accountant, unfortuneatly. It destroys the fiber of my being. 

I need some kind of drug habit if I'm going to continue.

[CheffoJeffo]

I hate to be negative, but I think the wiki is pretty much garbage a lot of it is out of date and its very disorganized, and the search function on this site is frustrating.  I think it would help a lot if we got our asses in gear and cleaned up the wiki, I'll work on it when I have the time to do so.

We should really fix this thing to prevent all the same questions that pop up over and over again. 

Vigo - I don't think what you are saying is out of line, as long as you don't bash other options, or misrepresent anything.

Actually, we all know that you excel at being negative (calling the hard work of a lot of people garbage is pretty ---smurfing--- negative) ... but that doesn't make you wrong.

As far as preventing the same questions again and again -- nothing will. That experiment has been tried in various forms over the years and everybody finds it easier to post than to read.

As always, I applaud those who offer their time and expertise, but I am also an experienced cynic and will believe it when I see it.

[Donkbaca]

Actually, we all know that you excel at being negative (calling the hard work of a lot of people garbage is pretty ---smurfing--- negative) ... but that doesn't make you wrong.

you could call it negaive, or you know honest, I guess it depends on your perspective.  You always tell people to go to the wiki, and its pretty useless, sorry it just is, its out of date and not helpful at all.  I am sure people worked hard on it, but if it got wiped from the boards tomorrow nobody would notice or care.

As far as preventing the same questions again and again -- nothing will. That experiment has been tried in various forms over the years and everybody finds it easier to post than to read.

Yeah, maybe, and maybe that's a GOOD thing because it gives us something to talk about.  However, with a good wiki, we can at least tell people to "go read the wiki" and have that comment actually send them someplace helpful.

As always, I applaud those who offer their time and expertise, but I am also an experienced cynic and will believe it when I see it.

Buck up sunshine, we'll get the ball rolling

[Vigo]

I wouldn't say what is on the wiki is bad, the problem is more what is not on the wiki....which is a lot. There is also a lot of outdated material.

I take partial blame for it though. I'm a veteran member here, with at least enough know-how to add to certain areas. I'd only deserve a boot up ---my bottom--- if I sat and complained about the wiki and did nothing to help.

[CheffoJeffo]

As always, I applaud those who offer their time and expertise, but I am also an experienced cynic and will believe it when I see it.

Buck up sunshine, we'll get the ball rolling

You really need to work on your quote-fu .. you drop the references like you were Xiaou2.  

FWIW, None of the parts of the wiki that you are bitching about are my work, so it isn't personal for me. People (I'm looking at you SpaceFractal, DrewKaree and Cakemeister!) put a TON of time into it and the next generation never picked up after that. I will be thrilled to see what you guys can do.

There would be people who would be upset if it went away because they actively use the wiki, those people just lie outside of your chosen view.

I wouldn't say what is on the wiki is bad, the problem is more what is not on the wiki....which is a lot. There is also a lot of outdated material.

I take partial blame for it though. I'm a veteran member here, with at least enough know-how to add to certain areas. I'd only deserve a boot up ---my bottom--- if I sat and complained about the wiki and did nothing to help.

Exactly ... I don't mind if you don't contribute, but when you ---smurfette--- AND don't contribute, then I have a problem.

 

EDIT: For forgetting Drew

[Donkbaca]

I am actually

You really need to work on your quote-fu .. you drop the references like you were Xiaou2. 

Yeah, my quote fu sucks, but my picture-fu has gotten much better.

I am actually fired up about helping, and I WILL do it, eventually.  For better or worse, I almost always chime in when someone is looking for help/advice.  I like this hobby and think it would be cool to payback to the community a little bit.   Maybe Vigo and I can tag team parts of it. I think the first step is to get rid of the old info, are all of those vendors still selling?

[Rando]

If you really want a good noob guide, buy Saint's book, its a good walk through.

+1 Even if you don't think you will need it much, it is a great addition...or a gift for someone you want to bring into the hobby.

Get the book, skim the book for the parts that relate to what you want to do, and then post your questions.  Lots of good information in there about the different options for buttons, sticks, cabs, etc.  You don't need to read every word, some sections won't be relevant to what you plan on doing, but the rest will be crucial, if only to serve as background info for what you eventually do.

And ignore most of the back/forth bitching that every thread ends up with, it just happens, but there is often good info buried among it.

[CheffoJeffo]

It's all good ... maybe we should start a dedicated thread for suggested changed.

I don't think we should remove inactive vendors, but should update where there are inactive. Also update bad vendors (dunno if I have missed any).

I should also get off ---my bottom--- and write an article about doing a simple JAMMA cab to MAME cab conversion.

Maybe after tax season ....  

[Donkbaca]

I'm going to tackle slim cabs, lcds and xbox 360 cabs.  Maybe also do a consoles page.  Not caliming to be an expert on all this stuff, but at least it will be a start. give me 2 weeks. 

[CheffoJeffo]

Now kiss.

And now we all know what Jim is really into ... 

[BadMouth]

Get Saint's book, but do not angle the player 3 & 4 joysticks like he did.   

[Nephasth]

Now kiss.

And now we all know what Jim is really into ... 

What? What? ... In the butt.

[Trip]

Get Saint's book, but do not angle the player 3 & 4 joysticks like he did.   

Angle 

[Nephasth]

Man, this wiki thing takes a long time to do. Whatcha think? Am I on the right path here? http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/wiki/Wiring

[Vigo]

Man, this wiki thing takes a long time to do. Whatcha think? Am I on the right path here? http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/wiki/Wiring

Niiiice!!

[P-chan]

Man, this wiki thing takes a long time to do. Whatcha think? Am I on the right path here? http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/wiki/Wiring

VERY nice.  I never thought to use Cat5 for wiring up a CP, but it makes a lot of sense.

[P-chan]

I hate to be negative, but I think the wiki is pretty much garbage a lot of it is out of date and its very disorganized, and the search function on this site is frustrating.  I think it would help a lot if we got our asses in gear and cleaned up the wiki, I'll work on it when I have the time to do so.

We should really fix this thing to prevent all the same questions that pop up over and over again. 

Vigo - I don't think what you are saying is out of line, as long as you don't bash other options, or misrepresent anything.

As far as games I'm looking to play, I would have to say it's probably going to be pretty evenly split between fighting games (Capcom/MK/SNK) and old school arcade games (Donkey Kong/Rampage/Pac-man and the like).  I'm not a huge fan of shootemups.

Here you are going to have some joystick issues as the best fighting game joysticks are usually looser, 8-way joysticks that make it easy to hit corners, whereas a lot of the old school games use 4 way sticks where if a corner is pressed, the game basically goes, "WTF?" and all movement ceases.  You can either add a dedicated 4 way, ( I hate this option, its confusing to have a bunch of joysticks in my opinion, but that is my opinion) or you can have some sort of switchable stick, or get a U360 that auto switches.  I would probably go U-360, they are pricier, but remember that you don't need an encoder with them.

I will probably also put some console emu's on this box, most likely just NES/Genesis/TG-16 for a Mario/Sonic/Bonk fix.  These probably won't get played often, but they're fun and don't take up much space.

I had emulators on mine when I built it, then took them out, too akward to play with a joystick, but since your TV is going to be walll mounted.  I suggest you go blue tooth PS3 controllers, or get a cheap wireless receiver from e-bay and use xbox 360 controllers.  Its the best way to do console emu.

My monitor is likely going to be a widescreen HDTV that's on a rotatable mount on the wall in front of my cabinet.  The cab will be a 1/2 height cab, basically a box with a control panel on top.  I feel it's important to have the right aspect (vertical for games like Pac-man, Donkey Kong, Galaga, etc) and horizontal for fighting games and consoles.  I'm sure someone's done this, any tips would be appreciated.  When I'm done, it should look something like this :

Tv's don't like to be rotated like that, they aren't designed to be viewed at those angles.  I say, ditch the rotation. The screen should be big enough to play the veritcal games just fine.  Remember these vertical classics were on like 17 and 19 inch screens.

Thanks for the advice.  I will go with the U360's.  it really will only increase my cost by about 10 bucks since I don't need to buy the ipac.  Since the rotating TV mount I like isn't costing me any extra money, I'm going to give it a shot.  I'd like to play Galaga or pac-man on a 32" diagonal vertically mounted LCD in full screen