Designing a Handheld Game Controller (Gamepad)

[Kyre]

As the subject suggests, I wish to design a custom handheld controller, similar to common gamepads.

To actually make the design itself I am thinking of using Google SketchUp (with which I am currently not familiar, but it seems powerful and easy to use).
I already have a basic idea of how I want it to look and what should be inside, but there are two main issues that have me stumped:

• I don't really know how to design something that is comfortable to hold.
• I have no idea how to bring the design to fruition, once I have it.

I have tried to look up similar ideas here on the boards and on the web in general, but my searching has yielded little to no useful results.
I know this board centers on the construction of arcade machines with built-in control panels rather than controllers, but I'm hoping someone here can offer some assistance, or at least point me in the right direction.

Thanks in advance.

[crumptinite]

When it comes to actual control panels like simple fight pads can be found at the shoryuken forums.

[yotsuya]

As the subject suggests, I wish to design a custom handheld controller, similar to common gamepads.

To actually make the design itself I am thinking of using Google SketchUp (with which I am currently not familiar, but it seems powerful and easy to use).
I already have a basic idea of how I want it to look and what should be inside, but there are two main issues that have me stumped:

• I don't really know how to design something that is comfortable to hold.
• I have no idea how to bring the design to fruition, once I have it.

I have tried to look up similar ideas here on the boards and on the web in general, but my searching has yielded little to no useful results.
I know this board centers on the construction of arcade machines with built-in control panels rather than controllers, but I'm hoping someone here can offer some assistance, or at least point me in the right direction.

Thanks in advance.

Well, let me ask this question- WHY do you feel compelled to build a custom handheld? I hope it doesn't sound like I'm shooting down your idea, but if you want to reinvent the wheel, it should fit a need. What customization are you looking to do?

[Kyre]

Well, let me ask this question- WHY do you feel compelled to build a custom handheld? I hope it doesn't sound like I'm shooting down your idea, but if you want to reinvent the wheel, it should fit a need. What customization are you looking to do?

A valid question, of course.
I'm actually building a very simple gaming console, which is going to be comprised of a central piece and two controllers that connect to it via cables.
The central piece is going to be a simple box, so I'm sure I'll manage to find a way to make it (though there are some considerations regarding that part of which I am also uncertain, such as ventilation to keep the contents cool enough).

I can't use standard controllers, because I need them to contain buttons that connect to a Mini-PAC in the central piece, rather than use a standard protocol meant to communicate with a host device such as USB or PS/2.
Unless you know of a controller with 16+ buttons which does precisely that...?

[bkenobi]

If you want to go with a wired controller, there is another option that you might consider.  Many people have hacked gamepads to connect to buttons in there CP's to use the board as a poor man's ipac.  But, I don't see any reason you couldn't potentially go the opposite direction.  This may be very complicated, but you could potentially find a controller that had the physical controls you want and then hack into the board to add your own harness (with 17 wires presumably for 16 controls + 1 ground).  You would then run that wire from your hacked controller to the control box where the mini-pac would be located.

Alternately, if the controller was large enough, I suppose you could locate the mini-pac inside the controller and just run a USB cable.

I see what you are trying to do, but unless this controller needs to be extremely unique, I'd personally just use an off the shelf controller.  Good luck!   

[dandare]

what kind of console are you building?

i take it its not an uzebox type console, as you could just use snes pads. is it pc based running emulators?

also why do you need 16 buttons? the only thing i can think of that comes close is the atari jaguar pad. maybe that can be hacked?

[Kyre]

I am indeed considering emptying an existing controller, but I would rather make the controller myself if I can.
Could it be that there are some off-the-shelf controllers that might be able to interface with the IPAC directly?

I figured I would need 16 buttons (that includes 4 directional buttons) to run all the games I want.
If you think of some fighting games, for example, you can easily get close to that figure (e.g. 4 directions + High/Low Punch/Kick, Block, Run, Start, Select = 12 already), and I might like to have a key or two for system use.

[Le Chuck]

I'm still not following why a regular controller won't work with a USB adapter.  Why do you need the minipac/ipac? 

If it's because you need to have key presses instead of button presses registered you can just use a program like JoytoKey or XPadder to get your key presses out of your joystick.  Maybe I'm not tracking the full extent of what you need but it sounds like there are software solutions already in the community to allow you to use a commercial off the shelf game pad to accomplish your goal... unless your goal is to build your own for the sake of doing it.

It sounds like some of your inputs are administrative so I'd recommend shifted functions (e.g. left shoulder + start = save state) which you can also setup with the aforementioned programs. 

[Kyre]

The thing is, I need the buttons on the controller to generate different key presses based on the game that is running.
I'm not familiar with the programs you mentioned; can they do this, and do they work in DOS?

[Le Chuck]

DOS... no idea.  I'd have to look, or you could take a google over to their development pages and check.  Why do you need DOS?  There are a lot of benefits to using a paired down version of XP or even TinyXP.

If they are DOS compliant and don't require all the wonderful drivers and stuff you get with XP or any other OS then yes.  You can absolutely set up one key map for MAME, one for DAPHNE, one for ZSNES etc etc.  If you go with windows and use a FE like MALA you can even get that program to very easily open the map you need when you launch the emu then close it after and return to whatever default map you have for navigation... better yet, MALA can navigate with programmable joystick inputs so you don't even need to worry about a default... and if you want to navigate windows on MALA exit you can set that up so your Joy or analog stick works like a mouse. 

XP+MALA+Joytokey+whatever joystick you throw at it = whatever you want to do

There are other ways to skin the cat of course but this is a very tried and true way for those who are set on using a controller for primary input

[Kyre]

I'm afraid using DOS is the one iron rule I cannot forgo.
I've tried to go with the emulation approach, but after some testing (where some games would accept emulated keystrokes and others would not), I've decided that the surest way for generated keystrokes to work is for them to be fed externally via a physical PS/2 or USB port.

That's why I decided to go with the I-PAC, but now I need to acquire a controller whose buttons would trigger input events for it.
I really don't mind building it myself (in fact, I think it would be an enjoyable experience), and I think I can manage to get it to work well enough on my own, but the whole process of industrial design (for the controller itself) is alien to me.

Hacking an existing controller sounds like a good idea.
Do you think it would be possible to use a controller's existing buttons and connect them to the I-PAC instead?

[Le Chuck]

Sounds like you've got it under control then.  I'd be interested to know what program you were using that wasn't accepting the keystrokes mapped to a controller and what program was doing the mapping.  If you want to run wires for each button I'm sure you can set it directly to an IPAC.  Best of luck.

[wweumina]

It sounds like you may be doing this the hard way, but good luck to you.  Maybe it's just that I'm more of a software guy but to me using an existing controller and modifying the environment seems easier. Is this for emulation? As stated earlier, the whole thing would have ready made solutions in Windows or probably even Linux.

[Kyre]

I'd be interested to know what program you were using that wasn't accepting the keystrokes mapped to a controller and what program was doing the mapping.

I was actually testing my own code on some DOS games.
I tried several methods of simulating keystrokes, all of which worked in the DOS shell, and some worked for some of the games as well.
Specifically, I managed to make the I, K, J and L keys simulate the arrow keys, and I could play One Must Fall 2097 this way perfectly.
But Commander Keen, for example, wouldn't respond to the same mapping, nor to any other method I tried.

It sounds like you may be doing this the hard way, but good luck to you.  Maybe it's just that I'm more of a software guy but to me using an existing controller and modifying the environment seems easier. Is this for emulation? As stated earlier, the whole thing would have ready made solutions in Windows or probably even Linux.

I'm more of a software guy myself as well (I work as an embedded developer for a living at the moment), but I'm open to trying new things. =)
Emulation would be easier, but as I've stated before, I am not willing to relinquish my demand that the system should run DOS.
I'll give anything a shot, as long as it does not violate this one requisite.
Running Windows or Linux and emulating DOS using DOSBox or anything of the ilk is out of the question.

Best of luck.

Thank you. 

[SavannahLion]

That would explain your email. That's strictly a programmers nomenclature.

Have you taken a look at those 15DB controller mods. They're pretty simple if you have experience with a soldering iron. I don't care for them otherwise I'd have a link to share. There's a post around here about it.

[Le Chuck]

Emulation would be easier, but as I've stated before, I am not willing to relinquish my demand that the system should run DOS.
I'll give anything a shot, as long as it does not violate this one requisite.
Running Windows or Linux and emulating DOS using DOSBox or anything of the ilk is out of the question.

Care to elaborate on why that's the case?  Maybe I'm uninformed but how is running DK on MAME any different than running DOSBox so you can play Keen4e?  They're both emulating. 

[Kyre]

That would explain your email. That's strictly a programmers nomenclature.

Yes, in fact, it's from back when I used to work in Visual Basic a lot. =)

Have you taken a look at those 15DB controller mods. They're pretty simple if you have experience with a soldering iron. I don't care for them otherwise I'd have a link to share. There's a post around here about it.

I've found a thread (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=67811.msg784138#msg784138) with someone offering custom-ordered modified controllers for sale; is this what you referred to?

Care to elaborate on why that's the case?  Maybe I'm uninformed but how is running DK on MAME any different than running DOSBox so you can play Keen4e?  They're both emulating. 

What I meant is that I wish to run DOS itself, without any form of emulation.
I was trying to state that DOSBox and anything like it is not what I want.