2012 BYOAC Token design thread

[Q*Bert_OP]

Mods: please sticky this topic. This will be the official token design thread for this year's tokens.

Folks, I've decided to take on this year's token project, since it doesn't look like Santoro will be doing it this year.

In this thread, please post your 2012 BYOAC token designs, both front and back in this thread. Please note what side you're submitting designs for.

At a later time, we may consider doing tokens that aren't specific to BYOAC, but rather to the arcade and pinball community as a whole, and without a year.

Timeline:
Feb. 29: Design entries close/voting
Mar: Pre-ordering(More paid pre-orders=lower pricing)
Apr.: Die making/minting (orders should ship within 2-3 weeks of die completion)

We are designing  .984" (25mm) tokens.  So that all entries are judged equally, submissions should be in grayscale only, without bling. (Bling refers to color, photorealistic renderings. If we get a volunteer to bling all entries at the end equally, we can do that.)  White should indicate the lowest point of the token, black the highest.  If you want to show partial-height details use shades of gray, Different levels of gray are OK.  Of interest as you design,  the 'lowest' or 'deepest' point on the token will usually be shiny because it doesn't require machining.

So that those of us who are not Photoshop Gurus are given a fair shot , no 'blinged' renderings should be posted.

Guidelines/Rules
-No R-Rated material
-No trademarked or copyrighted images. (Pacman, etc...)
-MAME references are OK though, we have approval to use the logo if we like as long as we respect the spirit of MAME - i.e. no references to playing thousands of games, etc.
-No Bling - refer to the 2004 thread below to see how blinged line art turns out.
-Should display "Build Your Own Arcade Controls" (or at least "BYOAC") and the www.arcadecontrols.com URL   because BYOAC is the whole point of the tokens.
-If at all possible you should have your art in vector format. (Adobe Illustrator AI for example.)  Next best is very high-res raster (Hi-res meaning greater than or equal to 300DPI,) but I discourage it because we have always used vector with superb results.  Low-res artwork won't work, you will need to have someone fix it up for you.
-Vector fonts need to be converted to curves.
- .002" is the absolute minimum line width.  While lines can be reproduced at this scale, text may not be readable for being too small.
-The 'lowest' or 'deepest' point on the token will usually be shiny because it doesn't require machining.
-Keep in mind that almost 30% of my customers are outside the USA, so specific references to US currency, flags, etc may hurt your chances of winning.
-If you are submitting what you consider your final proposal, please say so in your post. Otherwise we will assume you are submitting it for group discussion and tweaking.

[Mac Green]

sweet can t wait to see what they look like   Mac

[tho]

I have no designs but I'm looking forward to buying some tokens.

TD

[Q*Bert_OP]

No designs yet?

For this to work, and to have this year's tokens this year, we need some designs (and orders  ) from the community.

[vorghagen]

I still think jfunks '1up army' design is one of the best of any year and would love to see it on a token.

[yaksplat]

I still think jfunks '1up army' design is one of the best of any year and would love to see it on a token.

link?

[Q*Bert_OP]

Previous years' designs that weren't chosen are eligible for re-consideration, provided the year is changed. 

[vorghagen]

I still think jfunks '1up army' design is one of the best of any year and would love to see it on a token.

link?

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=66659.msg699928#msg699928

[yaksplat]

oooo that's nice...

[jfunk]

Makes me laugh that my token keeps coming up after, what, 6 years?   

The ai file (and a bunch of concept images) is still out there if anyone wants to tweak it..  I don't even think I have that software anymore   

http://www.homearcade.us/tokens/

-Jason

[gamepimp]

I would really be interested in a token that represents both the arcade side of gaming as well as the console side. For example, perhaps there could be a "1-up mushroom" on one side of the token and a picture of an arcade machine on the reverse like the examples I pulled from the previous thread. I personally prefer a token that is more "universal" and doesn't show a year and maybe doesn't even have BYOAC mentioned on it. Perhaps if we had a more generic token some of the online shops like Ultimarc, Paradise Arcade, and GGG might even be willing to purchase some tokens to offer them to their customers???

[wp34]

Gamepimp-

I'm not sure what I think about incorporating consoles but I really like your second design.   

[gamepimp]

Neither design was mine. Just found them on the previous token thread started by Santoro. Technically, the mushroom is from Super Mario which is a console and an arcade game. So I'm sure the arcade "purists" wouldn't object too much. 

[tsaylor]

Those designs are nice.  Personally, my favorite is the 2010 design (and I'd buy those if any were still available).

[gamepimp]

I agree. The 2010 design was awesome and I was disappointed that I missed out on those. Perhaps a re-run of those tokens might be in order? I think they were brass originally. Maybe the date could be changed (or left off) and they could be done in a nickel finish?

[yotsuya]

I'd buy a 2010 re-run in a heartbeat.

[Nephasth]

Timeline:
Feb. 29: Design entries close/voting
Mar: Pre-ordering(More paid pre-orders=lower pricing)
Apr.: Die making/minting (orders should ship within 2-3 weeks of die completion)

Yikes...

[Q*Bert_OP]

Timeline:
Feb. 29: Design entries close/voting
Mar: Pre-ordering(More paid pre-orders=lower pricing)
Apr.: Die making/minting (orders should ship within 2-3 weeks of die completion)

Yikes...

I know. I'm considering re running the 2010 design once I found out who has the dies.

Possibly also a rerun of that design with no year.

I'll open a poll shortly

If neithe has enough interest, scrap the project

[Santoro]

I was quiet when you grabbed control of the 2012 tokens because I admittedly wasn't moving it along.  It was absolutely sleazy to do so without so much as a PM to me.  But now this:

I know. I'm considering re running the 2010 design once I found out who has the dies.

That's pretty damned presumptuous.  I have the dies, they are my property, and you will not be ordering squat with them. Good luck with your rerun.

I will be ordering new 2010 tokens soon, along with MAME tokens and others.   I respectfully ask the community to do the right thing and not to buy remakes of any of my previous tokens from others.  Q*Bert can do what he wants, I can't stop him, but I hope I can count on the community to not support this behavior.

[Nephasth]

I was quiet when you grabbed control of the 2012 tokens because I admittedly wasn't moving it along.  It was absolutely sleazy to do so without so much as a PM to me.  But now this:

I know. I'm considering re running the 2010 design once I found out who has the dies.

That's pretty damned presumptuous.  I have the dies, they are my property, and you will not be ordering squat with them. Good luck with your rerun.

Bad idea to make tokens with dies you own and not asking? Yes.

Sleazy to take on the 2012 tokens without PMing you? Not really. He mentioned he would be interested in doing so in your thread for last year's tokens if you had not plans to do them. You replied after he made that statement with no objections at the time.

[Santoro]

Actually I had a sticky topic for the next batch of tokens well before this thread.   My life has been super hectic and the thread wasn't moving forward, I fully admit that, but I was there first.  If he had PMed me I probably would have just handed over the thread to him. But to just step up and take it? Well that speaks for itself.  That's all. 

I'm not gonna get into a big drama here.  Anyone can agree or disagree - doesn't matter to me.  I have spoken my mind, and I will leave this thread to continue as it was.

[Nephasth]

Actually I had a sticky topic for the next batch of tokens well before this thread.   My life has been super hectic and the thread wasn't moving forward, I fully admit that, but I was there first.  If he had PMed me I probably would have just handed over the thread to him. But to just step up and take it? Well that speaks for itself.  That's all. 

I'm not gonna get into a big drama here.  Anyone can agree or disagree - doesn't matter to me.  I have spoken my mind, and I will leave this thread to continue as it was.

I'm grateful you've made previous years runs of tokens in the past, I wouldn't have any BYOAC tokens if you didn't. The sticky was for 2011 tokens... there was never any mention of 2012 tokens from you. With 2011 tokens never being made, and not any real interest in 2012 design, I still think it would be a great idea for a yearless design, regardless of who makes them... I agree, no need for drama, but somebody... JUST MAKE SOME DAMNED TOKENS! Please.

[Stingray]

I agree with Santoro 100%. Totally sleazy to just take over the project without so much as PM requesting permission. Offering to resell previous year tokens is just theft. My tokens will be coming from Santoro or the person he officially passes the torch to. No one here should order any tokens from qbert, his behavior is inexcusable.

-S

[Q*Bert_OP]

I was quiet when you grabbed control of the 2012 tokens because I admittedly wasn't moving it along.  It was absolutely sleazy to do so without so much as a PM to me.  But now this:

Quote from: Q*Bert_OP on Yesterday at 12:22:29 PM
I know. I'm considering re running the 2010 design once I found out who has the dies.

That's pretty damned presumptuous.  I have the dies, they are my property, and you will not be ordering squat with them. Good luck with your rerun. Roll Eyes

I will be ordering new 2010 tokens soon, along with MAME tokens and others.   I respectfully ask the community to do the right thing and not to buy remakes of any of my previous tokens from others.  Q*Bert can do what he wants, I can't stop him, but I hope I can count on the community to not support this behavior.

So now you take interest in this project? You said you had things in life to take care of. Never once did you say you were re-running any previous years.

And YOU have the dies? In YOUR possession? I see YOU must also have the machine to mint coins as well!

If he had PMed me I probably would have just handed over the thread to him. But to just step up and take it? Well that speaks for itself.  That's all. 

I posted publicly into that thread, and nether you nor anyone else had a problem with it. But since you're going to have a fit over it, you can keep your tokens and your dies with the design that you don't own.

Remind me why I'd put thousands of dollars of my own money to help the community, take no money until I have product to ship, sit on lots of merchandise, and profit just fractions of a cent per coin, rounding the cost per coin up to the next penny.



Santoro, now that you've bitched about me volunteering to take over your project after you had no objections of me doing so, go make some damn tokens or shut up!

[Santoro]

Never once did you say you were re-running any previous years

Interesting seeing as I actually said this weeks ago after you muscled in:  http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=106114.msg1246985#msg1246985

I am very sorry,  and I hope to be back when things settle down next year.   I may do some re-runs if I can scrape up enough preorders, stay tuned.

And YOU have the dies? In YOUR possession? I see YOU must also have the machine to mint coins as well!

Not sure what you are saying.  You think they are like public domain or something?  It's true the dies are at the mint - My company paid $200 per side for them and they are linked to my account, rest assured they are property of Arcade Replay, LLC and will remain so.  Possession is irrelevant. You don't have your money under your mattress, so I guess therefore I can go to your bank withdraw some? Is that how you think it works?  Hopefully I misunderstood what you were implying, you can't possibly be that naive.

The BYOAC token designs were sort of a public thing, and if the original artists were willing to do business with you after this I suppose you could get new dies made at your own cost.  Go for it, lets see who buys from you.

[stan2323]

Now I am going to chime in.  I would like some 2011 and 2012 token.  I do not care who makes them if Santoro had made either of them I would have purchased them.  In fact I have stated that I am in for 200 2011 any time.  I am also in for 200 2012 any time.  I am in for 200 of a year less design any time.  I was very disappointed when Santoro was not able to do it.  I understand things come up and family matters have priority.  When Q-bert said he was going to do it I was very happy and sorry to say this Santoro glad that another person was going to be doing this and maybe get it done instead of stringing things along for a year and then just getting them done in the first few months of the following year.  Well now that someone got their feelings hurt it looks like it will not happen again this year.  What a disappointment.  Somebody that can do this man up and do it or just come out and say no more.  I think it is quite low of Santoro to have a problem with it now that someone who may do this better than he can seems to want to do it.  That said I am still in for 200 2011, 200 2012, and or 200 year less whoever makes them, Santoro, Q-bert or someone eles.

Stan

[Santoro]

Look, from my view, I have been doing this for eight years and a courtesy PM to get my blessing was in order. I didn't respond to the the offer of help in the thread because I wasn't ready to relinquish control.  I don't think silence should reasonably be construed as acceptance.

Yet I didn't complain when he first took over.  A bunch of BYOAC folks I am friends on the side thought I should say something but I gave him the benefit of the doubt and let it proceed without a word.  If you think that is 'quite low.' there is nothing I am gonna say that will change your mind.

The 2010 thing was over the line though and it really ticked me off - here you see the result. I am over it and I really don't want this thread to turn into the Great Token War of '12. Let's move on.

I am not able to manage the 2011/12 token threads this year. QBert has taken on the task, and I hope we get some great new ones.


edit: clarified the last sentence. 

[Le Chuck]

I am not able to make tokens this year. QBert has taken on the task, and I hope we get some great new ones.

My company paid $200 per side for them and they are linked to my account, rest assured they are property of Arcade Replay, LLC and will remain so.
...
The BYOAC token designs were sort of a public thing, and if the original artists were willing to do business with you after this I suppose you could get new dies made at your own cost.  Go for it, lets see who buys from you.

Just so I'm tracking and not to draw this out but even if the artist that designed the token authorizes a re-mint you will not contact the die holder and authorize Q-Bert use of those dies even though you are unable to make tokens this year? 

If that is the case I will donate $200 towards die creation providing that the original artist authorizes the use of his original art.     

[Santoro]

OK Let me clarify (and I will edit the post above too for clarity..)

I am not making new token DESIGNS this year. 

I AM making new remints of my more popular past tokens in the next few months - MAME  /2010 minimally.  Those require very little work.

[AlienInferno]

I just want to say that I like Santoro and am more then willing to buy more tokens from him both now and in the future.  Especially the 2010 tokens.  But at the same time am really wanting a 2012 token.  So whoever makes it first get's my money.

[leapinlew]

I am not able to make tokens this year. QBert has taken on the task, and I hope we get some great new ones.

My company paid $200 per side for them and they are linked to my account, rest assured they are property of Arcade Replay, LLC and will remain so.
...
The BYOAC token designs were sort of a public thing, and if the original artists were willing to do business with you after this I suppose you could get new dies made at your own cost.  Go for it, lets see who buys from you.

Just so I'm tracking and not to draw this out but even if the artist that designed the token authorizes a re-mint you will not contact the die holder and authorize Q-Bert use of those dies even though you are unable to make tokens this year? 

If that is the case I will donate $200 towards die creation providing that the original artist authorizes the use of his original art.     

Chuck, I can understand you taking Qberts side on this. Jumping in and taking someone elses idea without asking seems like your thing. 

Santoro is 100% right in this. Qbert should have sent a PM, or at the least inquired about the project. It's just proper etiquette. I think Qbert is trying to do a good thing and I think he's a good guy. This could have been handled differently is all I'm saying.

[Le Chuck]

Chuck, I can understand you taking Qberts side on this. Jumping in and taking someone elses idea without asking seems like your thing.  

I like your style. 

[saint]

Haven't read this whole thread, but:

I would be happy to see new tokens created and appreciate that Santoro has bowed out of this year's design and Q*Bert is taking it on. It's a huge undertaking -- I hope he is able to pull it off and I'll be first in line to buy some. (I want nickle by the way!)

I would be dismayed to see anyone reusing/reissuing previous years' designs without the explicit permission of the original design creator(s) and Santoro. The first because it's their design, and the second because that's pretty much taking money out of the pocket of the guy who stepped up to do this in the first place. I would not want BYOAC associated with something that didn't have everyone's blessing.

Thanks!

--- saint

[Vigo]

Santoro nearly completely dropped off the radar for the last 2 years. I don't think Qbert was necessarily "sleazy" for not dropping a PM. Sure he should have done it, but Santoro was not responding to anybody here, nor responded to a thread message left to him. We were all sitting around waiting and wondering what was next. It is just a bit much to fault someone for trying to pick up the ball that has been dropped for 2 years, especially when it is a staple product of the community. In the real world of business, if someone fails to deliver a product, that is opening a door for all sorts of competition to take over without any courtesy PM's.

While my work might not have been the best, I personally contributed designs in the spirit of giving Santoro art pro bono on his promise that he would sell new tokens to the community. As a customer, I am disappointed in the lack of product, especially when I investing my time into him as well. As a fellow member here, I fully understand that he has been going through a lot and understand the circumstances.

As far as the previous designs go, I agree with Saint. It should come with permission from Santoro and the designers as well. I think Qbert could easily find non-winner designs from the contest and get permission from those designers to make an "alternate" previous year token. I am sure Qbert has invested a lot of time to make something happen, and I wish him success.

I think both Qbert and Santoro are outstanding members here, and would hate to see either tarnished by this, and of course we would all love to see new tokens for sale.

[Donkey_Kong]

Well said Vigo. Let's leave it at that and move on!

[DrewKaree]

Remind me why I'd put thousands of dollars of my own money to help the community, take no money until I have product to ship, sit on lots of merchandise, and profit just fractions of a cent per coin, rounding the cost per coin up to the next penny.

I'd rather hear Santoro's reasons why he did the exact thing you're griping about - several years in a row.  It might explain why he didn't chime in.

When Q-bert said he was going to do it I was very happy and sorry to say this Santoro glad that another person was going to be doing this and maybe get it done instead of stringing things along for a year and then just getting them done in the first few months of the following year. 

Given the ones of ones of designs in this very thread, you might do well to apply some logic as to just why this appears to be a process that is "stringing things along".  But whatever, right?  As long as you can buy something from whoever does the grunt work for you for pennies on the dollar, amIright?  The beef isn't with what you believe it to be, but if you can't be bothered to figure out just why this takes so dang long to mint a niche token that appeals to the masses within said niche....

 

Santoro nearly completely

Which is it?  He nearly dropped off the radar, or he completely dropped off the radar?

Nevermind, that's arguing idiocy.  Dropping Santoro a PM would shoot it to his e-mail inbox, not just leave a little message here for him.  I say this knowing this from actually dealing with him and PM'ing him.  At the very least, it WAS questionable and lacking in tact NOT to drop him a PM - you assumed yourself that he "nearly completely dropped off the radar" here, so why the eff would anyone simply assume that he would magically pop in here and do a search for all threads with "Santoro" or "token" or whatever other such nonsense he was magically supposed to receive a bat signal for? 

To add the bit about minting past runs with no mention of remuneration certainly dips its toes in the "sleazy" pond.


Also, Donkey Kong, if we were talking signs, I'm sure you'd feel as slighted as Santoro.  It's a shame you're leaving people behind in your wake(bored).

[Donkey_Kong]

Santoro nearly completely dropped off the radar for the last 2 years. I don't think Qbert was necessarily "sleazy" for not dropping a PM. Sure he should have done it, but Santoro was not responding to anybody here, nor responded to a thread message left to him. We were all sitting around waiting and wondering what was next. It is just a bit much to fault someone for trying to pick up the ball that has been dropped for 2 years, especially when it is a staple product of the community. In the real world of business, if someone fails to deliver a product, that is opening a door for all sorts of competition to take over without any courtesy PM's.

While my work might not have been the best, I personally contributed designs in the spirit of giving Santoro art pro bono on his promise that he would sell new tokens to the community. As a customer, I am disappointed in the lack of product, especially when I investing my time into him as well. As a fellow member here, I fully understand that he has been going through a lot and understand the circumstances.

As far as the previous designs go, I agree with Saint. It should come with permission from Santoro and the designers as well. I think Qbert could easily find non-winner designs from the contest and get permission from those designers to make an "alternate" previous year token. I am sure Qbert has invested a lot of time to make something happen, and I wish him success.

I think both Qbert and Santoro are outstanding members here, and would hate to see either tarnished by this, and of course we would all love to see new tokens for sale.

Drew- I'm not leaving anybody in a wake, mostly because I do my best to not even create one these days. I believe that for the most part his statements are looking at the argument from both sides which I commend him for. What I agreed with most without pointing it out is the last paragraph...

I think both Qbert and Santoro are outstanding members here, and would hate to see either tarnished by this, and of course we would all love to see new tokens for sale.

I too value Santoro's contributions to this forum, greatly. When he does a build he documents them to the T and you can tell it's genuinely written to help the next guy. I also have mucho respect for the guy that once said, way back when my wife and I were producing arcade characters for the community in exchange for mac n cheese..."HAVE a BACKUP PLAN!" I took those four little words of advice quite literally from papa Santoro and remember it being an actual pivot point in the direction of our business. Ironically, the subject being discussed back then, that prompted Santoro utter the words just happen to be trademark and intellectual property discussions in relation to NC.

There were many comments both for against both points of view preceding Vigo's comment. I could have said "well put, let's move on" to many of them, but I chose his because I really like that last line again about Qbert and Santoro being outstanding members. I'm essentially rooting for closure on the matter, it's too bad you took it as a stab at Santoro because it was anything but that!

[Vigo]

Hey Drew, Long time!

Just to clarify on my post, I was recounting the frustration from the token contest thread. Santoro was absent for months on end, then would throw in a message saying that it is still on, then months of nothing, rinse and repeat. Two years later, we are no closer to a token. That doesn't take away how grateful I am for him putting this all all these years, but it really set the climate for this to happen.

Now I know fully know that Santoro has had his reasons and hardships and fully sympathize that he has had good reasons that he has not been available, but putting that in the perspective of people who wanted tokens and designed artwork for him, it was only a matter of time before someone here would try to step up and make it happen when Santoro didn't. It is just the nature of the situation. I don't classify him as a bad guy for throwing a message on Santoro's thread, wait for a response on the thread, and do something because Santoro didn't object. Heck, if I knew a darn thing about making tokens, I would have probably offered to do it as well.

I do draw the line and trying profit off of the dies that Santoro had cast without direct permission, but I was willing to give benefit of the doubt that it was a misunderstanding of how the system works.

[pointdablame]

Some folks really need to separate two distinct situations here:

1) Santoro is not making 2011/2012 tokens.  QBert has volunteered to take on that task.  That's fine.  Even Santoro says it's fine.  He has things going on and can't do it, and QBert might be able to step up to the plate.  All's well in the world.  QBert probably could have reached out to Santoro to discuss it first but chose not to.  Nothing but perhaps a slight lack of decorum there.  I think a little courtesy PM to Santoro was in order, but in the grand scheme of things, I don't think anyone is gonna cry over it.

2) QBert made a pretty crystal clear indication that he wanted to re-mint Santoro's tokens without his permission.  He didn't get "permission" to even do the 2012 tokens and then goes much further down the line to taking Santoro's designs.  I fail to see how anyone could have any feelings on the ownership of the dies other than that they belong to Santoro.  He put up the money, he started the business, he ran the site, he got the artists to make the designs.  IIRC he also gave tokens to the artists as thanks/payment, but maybe I'm wrong.  For QBert to suggest that he is going to re-run these tokens and take money out of Santoro's pocket after the work Dave has put in over the years with tokens is downright despicable.  Totally sleazy act IMO.

I think it might be wise for us all to pull back on the feelings of Internet Entitlement^TM.  The BYOAC tokens are only a yearly thing b/c Santoro made it so.  How quickly people feel entitled to a yearly run of tokens when it was so recently just a pipe dream.  Yeah it sucks we didn't get new ones for a few years but understand what it is.  This is a community member doing this, not a multi-national company.  I assume QBert would be in the same situation, unless he is some worldwide token magnate.  Stop acting like yearly tokens are the right of BYOAC members.

I want 2012 tokens.  I'll buy them from Santoro... I'll buy them from QBert.  I just hope they get made.

[DrewKaree]

I don't think that Q-bert is a bad guy, but he's surely not gone about this the way I believe many think he should.  

I'm just sayin' a PM isn't too much to ask when taking over someone's project.  It seems an awful lot of people are willing to gloss over the fact that we even HAVE a PM feature simply because Q-bert posted it in his thread.  The re-issue of tokens from dies owned by Santoro.... I don't see anyone other than Santoro pointing out his comments on re-issuing those tokens - if people are willing to absolve Q-bert of the perceived slight simply because he posted in Santoro's thread, where are those same people SUPPORTING Santoro for posting exactly what Q-bert "ignored" after Santoro replied?  Does anyone else here see how posting in a thread isn't DIRECT contact/conversation with the relevant party like a PM would be?

As another example, Pixelhugger missed some info someone was trying to get to him for the same reasons as Santoro, real-life issues, when I had no problems getting Pixel to respond when I'd PM him.

I hang around here infrequently now, but when I've needed to get ahold of someone, the PM has always been my first step, and has yet to fail me.  

I was a beneficiary of Santoro's efforts, but there's no way he made anything close to compensate him for the work he had to do.  That will forever skew my view towards Santoro and what he provided us, and it'll always mean I'll take his side if something as dead simple as a PM can't be extended to a member who extended so much to US as a community in the first place.