Author Topic: OK, which one of you beavers is responsible for this one? (Read 10900 times)

Howard_Casto · « **Reply #40 on:** September 21, 2003, 06:02:36 pm »

I've just got one question for you. Why didn't you just use the pacman cab as a template and make a brand new cab to paint blue? l already know the answer, because you don't respect the history of the cabinet. Excuses will not justify destruction regardless of the topic.

DaveMMR · « **Reply #41 on:** September 21, 2003, 06:36:27 pm »

I've always thought it's best not to MAME any dedicated cab (even if it's the dumbest game in the world) because someone, somewhere is going to be upset -- and you're destroying history. Get a generic cab, something converted beyond recognition or build your own.

While I see your point AP I can't agree that turning something dedicated into a MAME is something that's out of your control. With the miricle of the internet there are people who will gladly take cabs off your hands, surely pay you for it and restore it. I got the gist from your post that you kinda 'half-heartedly' offered to sell, but I think you have your mind already made that you're going to MAME it.

And sorry but I don't buy that "you're doing the cabs a favor". Because some of these dedicated cabs are getting to be quite rare and you just added to that by opting to MAME them. They are your cabs and I've seen worse crimes to beautiful cabs, but don't expect not to be harangued.

APFelon · « **Reply #42 on:** September 21, 2003, 06:58:52 pm »

Quote from: Howard_Casto on September 21, 2003, 06:02:36 pm

I've just got one question for you. Why didn't you just use the pacman cab as a template and make a brand new cab to paint blue? l already know the answer, because you don't respect the history of the cabinet. Excuses will not justify destruction regardless of the topic.

I am not a carpenter. I am a college student and a former electronic tech. I don't even have the tools to make a cabinet even if I wanted to. And I DON'T want to. And even if I DID want to, what on earth would I do with the Pac cab after I was done templating it? Restore it? Sledge it? Spend my time and effort trying to sell it? You DID read my post, right? I sometimes write more than I should, so let me nutshell this for you.

1) Both of these machines would be in a landfill right now if I didn't take them. The cabinet was converted at least four times before I got it and it only resembled Pac-Man in shape.

2) I do not have the skill, the patience, the money or the slightest like of Pac Man or Head On to motivate me to restore these machines.

3) I don't want to sell the cabs for what I bought them for. I am not Fred Sanford and do not deal in junk. I am not the humane society for old arcade cabinets.

4) It is not my job to find someone to "treasure" these machines. If people want cabs to treasure, they can do their own legwork. I am not a cabinet broker, nor do I care about some purist creedo.

5) You may offer money for the cabs. If the price is worth my while, I will sell one or both of them. You will have saved some classic cabinets from "destruction". You can also spend several thousand dollars to restore them and sell them at a loss.

I hope that answers your question, plus any others you may have.

Grasshopper · « **Reply #43 on:** September 21, 2003, 07:05:36 pm »

I can't believe what a hornet's nest my seemingly innocuous post has stirred up!

Howard, I doubt that many people here would disagree with the main gist of your argument. You can take it as read that anyone who regularly visits this website is passionate about arcade games. However you are adopting a ridiculously extreme position IMHO.

I think APFelon has hit the nail on the head. Ideally I'd like to see every cabinet in existence restored to its former glory. But realistically it's just not going to happen.

It's all very well saying give the cab to a collector who'll appreciate it, but there are simply not enough collectors with enough storage space out there to save every cabinet currently in existence. How do I know this? Simple. It's a matter of market forces. If there were not enough classic cabinets out there to satisfy demand from the restorers then the price of them would go up. As it's difficult to even give away a gutted cabinet you have to conclude that there is a glut of cabinets out there. Surely it's better that these cabinets get used instead of ending up on a skip. MAMEing a classic cabinet in a reversible way seems like a good compromise to me.

Actually MAMEing a classic cabinet doesn't make much sense to me because it is easier to convert a JAMMA cabinet using a J-Pac and they are generally in better condition and easier to get hold of. However that's a slightly different issue.

As APFelon said, if you want to fill your house up with gutted cabinets for posterity then more power to you. And if you have the time, skill, and money to restore them all to their former glory then that's even better.

Fortunately this problem will eventually be solved by market forces. As classic cabinets become rarer their price will go up and eventually it will become too expensive to MAME them. However the price will not increase inexorably as there will come a point where it becomes economically viable for someone to start manufacturing replicas, and as the original cabinets were cheaply made out of mass produced components the replicas will probably be indistinguishable from the real thing.

Your Mona Lisa analogy is not particularly convincing. The reason why someone at the Louvre would not paint over it is not just because that would offend art lovers all over the world (although of course it would), it's because the painting is incredibly valuable. There is only one Mona Lisa, and as it was painted by a guy who died several hundred years ago there'll never be another. Now if 1500 Mona Lisas had been mass produced in a factory only 30 or so years ago then the paintings still in existence would be almost worthless in monetary terms although they might still have some intrinsic value to art lovers.

Incidentally conversions of classic cabinets don't have to be ugly. A good recent example is OSCAR's conversion of a Sinistar cabinet to a Multi-Williams cabinet. The control panel looks awesome.

paigeoliver · « **Reply #44 on:** September 21, 2003, 08:23:58 pm »

Also Pac-Man, Galaga, and Ms. Pac-Man machines are a special case.

First off they all had huge (around 100,000 each) production runs Secondly they are so popular that there are still tens of thousands of each title floating around.

In fact, there are SO MANY Ms. Pac-Man machines out there that I predict they will not be worth very much ten years from now. The arcade collecting scene is already dying down slightly, and will continue to decline forever. No one wants two Ms. Pac-Man machines. Just give it another 10 years and there will be more Ms. Pac-Man machines than there are collectors, and then they will be worthless.

As far as black and white games go. From what I have seen, no one seems to care. They may complain about it, but then they don't save them either, and don't keep them in their gameroom. I sold the non-working PCB and working monitor out of my Amazing Maze upright for simple reasons of economics. No one wanted to buy it non-working. I couldn't handle the boardset repair myself, and the shop that fixes the Midway 8080 boardsets charges like $115 plus shipping each way to do so.

So, it would have taken me about a $150 investment to get the game working, and the end result would have been a game that isn't really fun, and that no one was interested in, and that would be difficult to sell for the $150 I had into it.

So, I sold the monitor, power supply and boardset for $100 to someone else so that they could get a different (much more fun) Midway 8080 game going, and just did a cosmetic cabinet restoration and went the Mame route.

The end result there? 1 Sea Wolf machine that was previously not working is now working (from my parts). One (perhaps the last?) Amazing Maze machine that was non-fuctional is now functional, just with a slightly different function. It can still play the same game, and the new electronics (and other capabilities) ensure that it will be around for years to come.

Spaced Invader · « **Reply #45 on:** September 22, 2003, 10:47:27 am »

I have to agree with AP here. The mere fact that something is old (classic) doesn't give it intrinsic value. I understand there's a lot of nostalgia and some of these cabs really are quite rare. But a thing is only as valuable as market and emotion allow. A lot of people may thunder on about saving these precious works of art, but lets be honest, some of these aren't worth restoring. Sitting in someone's living room, actually being played is a far better fate than the dump or a damp warehouse. Without the artwork, the original controls, and a decent monitor, a "classic" cab would be lucky get Mamed. Ok, end of Rant...

Opinions Vary!

Brax · « **Reply #46 on:** September 22, 2003, 12:18:28 pm »

These arguments are TEDIOUS. We've heard them all a million times before. I vote for mass hangings if it's ever brought up again.

nighthawk2099 · « **Reply #47 on:** September 22, 2003, 12:24:06 pm »

What do you say about Cabs which have been converted to death and when one gets it, there is nothing left but an empty shell : no boards, monitor, marquee, power-supply, 6 layers of paint & side art and a control board that has more holes than swiss cheese. Do I spend the money to restore this cabinet (which I don't have.. money that is) or do I save the cabinet by MAMEing it (without mutilating(spell?) it any further)?

Chris · « **Reply #48 on:** September 22, 2003, 12:34:03 pm »

The answer, as usual, is "that depends."

My cabinet was a Super Contra, certainly not a classic by any means. It had been badly converted to a Tekken II. No side art, painted standard conversion black. No electronics other than a power supply; no art, no overlay, no bezel.

I MAME'd it, but I still kept the cabinet largely intact (I cut a hole in the bottom of the back panel for a fan). I did not put a freakishly large control panel on it.

If, however, you start to strip the six layers of paint off it and at the bottom layer find stenciled artwork like Defender or Sinistar, you might find it rewarding to restore at least the artwork.

If an empty cabinet is truly rare, and if you at least have some art to work with, I would suggest restoring it. If you have a working or almost working classic, I would suggest trading it to someone who wants to restore in exchange for an empty cab. The farther away from the original form the cabinet is in, the less grief you'll get and feel from MAMEing it.

--Chris

eightbit · « **Reply #49 on:** September 22, 2003, 03:23:28 pm »

Quote from: nighthawk2099 on September 22, 2003, 12:24:06 pm

What do you say about Cabs which have been converted to death

I don't know why you all even bother to debate this with HC. He is allowed to have his own opinion (even if he's wrong). He's said it before and I'll sum it up, if its good enough to convert to mame then it can be restored. I'm sure Howard will jump in if I didn't get it exactly right...

Me I say mame if it makes sense (even non reversible changes) and if anyone hassles you ask them how many cabinets they've restored.

Frostillicus · « **Reply #50 on:** September 22, 2003, 06:44:43 pm »

Quote from: Brax on September 22, 2003, 12:18:28 pm

These arguments are TEDIOUS. We've heard them all a million times before. I vote for mass hangings if it's ever brought up again.

AMEN. I like these boards a lot, but geeez seems like over half the threads have been asked and beaten to death only a few months prior...just to be resurrected by another newb...

Oh well...nature of the 'net and all

DarkKobold · « **Reply #51 on:** September 23, 2003, 06:21:44 pm »

Sorry, its my cab. I guess I should change it so we can all agree on this now. What do you all think?

hooded_paladin · « **Reply #52 on:** September 23, 2003, 09:24:15 pm »

Quote from: DarkKobold on September 23, 2003, 06:21:44 pm

Sorry, its my cab. I guess I should change it so we can all agree on this now. What do you all think?

woohoo! buttons on the left and everything!

...oops

paigeoliver · « **Reply #53 on:** September 23, 2003, 10:20:28 pm »

Thanks for selling me your cabinet DarkKobold. I have made a few changes, because as it was it was unable to play all those 4-player 6 button vertical games.

Spaced Invader · « **Reply #54 on:** September 24, 2003, 04:03:25 am »

Hey, I have a very similar cab. It's a dedicated driving upright. Looking for a place to put the shifter...suggestions?

MameMaster! · « **Reply #55 on:** September 24, 2003, 01:54:39 pm »

Apoligies in advance if this was already posted somewhere....but....

HIDE YOUR CHILDREN, COVER YOUR LOVED ONE'S EYES, PEEK, DON'T LOOK DIRECTLY AT THEM....THESE ARE

CONVERSIONS FROM HELL!!!!!!

http://www.alsarcade.com/Andy/arc/grose/index.html#CONVERSION

The MameMaster

SirPoonga · « **Reply #56 on:** September 24, 2003, 02:04:17 pm »

Hehe. What, no lightguns? No dedicated paperboy?

Frostillicus · « **Reply #57 on:** September 24, 2003, 09:02:38 pm »

Ok Ok you caught me it's actually my conversion to the fast-paced, gripping-gameplay action of Badlands. Unfortunately you miss out on a good portion of the horizontal screen.....

Frostillicus · « **Reply #58 on:** September 25, 2003, 02:15:51 pm »

OT: yeaah! that last post was my 1000th post

Lilwolf · « **Reply #59 on:** September 25, 2003, 04:33:40 pm »

As for the pacman cab..

it's not necessarily a crime... more of just a little stupid (sorry to be harsh). With the same time you put into converting it to mame... could you restore it? If so... then you could probably sell it for enought to build a whole new cab with all the extras.

If it really is a 'classic' cab... then you would think someone would always be willing to pay enought for you NOT to mame it.

but if not... and nobody cares enough to put their money on the table... Do what you will with it.

Last extra note... if YOU like the game... its always worth NOT maming it. (if its in working order that is)....

paigeoliver · « **Reply #60 on:** September 25, 2003, 04:35:46 pm »

Pac-Man and Ms. Pac-Man cabinets are pretty much worthless unless they still have the sideart. There are just too many of them around.

DarkKobold · « **Reply #61 on:** September 25, 2003, 06:33:53 pm »

That was some quality comedy that got started....

Edgedamage · « **Reply #62 on:** September 25, 2003, 07:03:38 pm »

Hey I got an idea rip out the miss pac boards and monitor. Then put a fish tank in the empty space!!

APFelon · « **Reply #63 on:** September 25, 2003, 07:54:26 pm »

Quote from: Lilwolf on September 25, 2003, 04:33:40 pm

As for the pacman cab..

it's not necessarily a crime... more of just a little stupid (sorry to be harsh). With the same time you put into converting it to mame... could you restore it? If so... then you could probably sell it for enought to build a whole new cab with all the extras.

If it really is a 'classic' cab... then you would think someone would always be willing to pay enought for you NOT to mame it.

but if not... and nobody cares enough to put their money on the table... Do what you will with it.

Last extra note... if YOU like the game... its always worth NOT maming it. (if its in working order that is)....

Please read both posts in their entirety for your answers. Perhaps I will seem a little less stupid once you do.

Good luck!

tmasman · « **Reply #64 on:** September 26, 2003, 09:33:44 am »

Say it aint so...
Just looking at that control panel hurts my eyes...
Ebay auction for a Street Fighter II ce

<...

nighthawk2099 · « **Reply #65 on:** September 26, 2003, 11:02:56 am »

(.........running around in circles screeming........)

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

NNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edgedamage · « **Reply #66 on:** September 26, 2003, 11:04:17 am »

Hey at least it's not termite food.

Edgedamage · « **Reply #67 on:** September 26, 2003, 11:08:58 am »

Oh shure but you say nothing about the poor converted SCRAMBLE cabinet beside it!!!!

Smittydc · « **Reply #68 on:** September 26, 2003, 01:18:51 pm »

Quote from: APFelon on September 21, 2003, 06:58:52 pm

I am not Fred Sanford and do not deal in junk. I am not the humane society for old arcade cabinets.

I'm still lauging. Thanks!

dhansen · « **Reply #69 on:** September 26, 2003, 05:55:26 pm »

Howard doesn't hate all classic conversions, just make it reversible and tie into the theme of the cab!

Case in point:

http://www.arcadecontrols.org/yabbse/index.php?board=10;action=display;threadid=4006;start=msg24297#msg24297


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