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Author Topic: OK, which one of you beavers is responsible for this one?  (Read 10834 times)

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paigeoliver

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OK, which one of you beavers is responsible for this one?
« on: September 18, 2003, 12:07:48 am »
Who did it, fess up and you will only get a bad beating. It will be much worse if we have to hunt you down.

« Last Edit: September 18, 2003, 07:54:40 pm by paigeoliver »
Acceptance of Zen philosophy is marred slightly by the nagging thought that if all things are interconnected, then all things must be in some way involved with Pauly Shore.

Carsten Carlos

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Re:OK, which one of you beavers is responsible for this one?
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2003, 02:21:15 am »
SAKRILEG!  :o



zzsprade

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Re:OK, which one of you beavers is responsible for this one?
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2003, 03:50:07 am »
Excuse me for being naive... but... i don't get it?????

-Alex

Carsten Carlos

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Re:OK, which one of you beavers is responsible for this one?
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2003, 04:09:20 am »
THIS is the very first arcade cabinet ever - at least I don't know of any older!  :o It's from 1971 and long before Atari's PONG started the Arcade-revolution.

By the way, as Nolan Bushnell was involved in this game, it's somehow a preliminary Atari-product :) Those days it was produced from Nutting Associates, and yes, I'm somehow an Atari-Fan.  :D

To add - the name of the game is Computer Space.
Never seen one in original, even when, I was just one year old those days!  :-X
« Last Edit: September 18, 2003, 04:19:28 am by Carsten Carlos »



paigeoliver

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Re:OK, which one of you beavers is responsible for this one?
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2003, 04:39:25 am »
THIS is the very first arcade cabinet ever - at least I don't know of any older!  :o It's from 1971 and long before Atari's PONG started the Arcade-revolution.

By the way, as Nolan Bushnell was involved in this game, it's somehow a preliminary Atari-product :) Those days it was produced from Nutting Associates, and yes, I'm somehow an Atari-Fan.  :D

To add - the name of the game is Computer Space.
Never seen one in original, even when, I was just one year old those days!  :-X

Well, it is the first "Production" VIDEO arcade cabinet. There were a half dozen  coin op Space Wars units at some college that predated these (apparently a single PDP computer os some sort ran several machines, search around on Google and you should be able to find it), and all sorts of EM and projector games that were older.

What is rather Ironic about the Computer Space cabinet is that it totally breaks from the look and feel of the older 60's EM game cabinets. But, that trend never took. Within a few years video game cabinets looked a whole lot like the old 50s + 60s EM game cabinets.
Acceptance of Zen philosophy is marred slightly by the nagging thought that if all things are interconnected, then all things must be in some way involved with Pauly Shore.

Carsten Carlos

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Re:OK, which one of you beavers is responsible for this one?
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2003, 04:45:42 am »
Quote
Well, it is the first "Production" VIDEO arcade cabinet.

I knew I would get a picky answer to this, though I expected it not to happen just a few minutes after my posting!  ;)



kspiff

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Re:OK, which one of you beavers is responsible for this one?
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2003, 04:57:15 am »
I was thinking the same thing :-X
k-spiff

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Re:OK, which one of you beavers is responsible for this one?
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2003, 07:02:53 am »
All I can see is a CHEAP Computer Space!!!!!! BID man, BID!!

Throw a b&w tv in there and hope to god the board is still in there...... if not, well..... patience. It's still a darn cool cabinet. The refurb would be fun.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2003, 07:04:08 am by Brax »
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paigeoliver

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Re:OK, which one of you beavers is responsible for this one?
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2003, 07:28:35 am »
Unfortunately it seems that Computer Space parts are almost impossible to come by. That is the only converted one I have EVER seen. The only reason you can usually find parts for most games is because they got converted. This just didn't happen to Computer Space (or to most B&W games), and thus the parts are largely still inside the original cabinets.

It actually isn't that rare of a game. I must have seen pictures of a good 100+ different ones online between ebay pics, live auction pics, warehouse raid pictures, and different people's game rooms. Almost every major arcade seller seems to have one stashed somewhere. It is only valuable because of the demand for them.

If I had to make a guess as to the most common B&W raster games, then it would be something like this

Space Invaders (all versions and clones included)
Pong (several versions from Atari, Kee, and Midway)
Sprint (2 and 1)
Sea Wolf
Atari Football
Computer Space
Gun Fight
Tank
Death Race (yeah, yeah, it is so rare that it is usually at least a month before another one pops up on ebay).
Starship I
Night Driver
Circus
Avalanche
Sheriff
Breakout
Fire Truck


I am sure I am forgetting something, but most B&W titles other the ones listed above (and those 2 and 4 player snake games) are incredibly rare.

Now try to find one of these Sprint 8,  Tank 8, Shark Jaws, Cops N Robbers, Road Runner, Shark, Super Flipper, UFO Chase, or just about any other pre-invaders title.

Acceptance of Zen philosophy is marred slightly by the nagging thought that if all things are interconnected, then all things must be in some way involved with Pauly Shore.

Lilwolf

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Re:OK, which one of you beavers is responsible for this one?
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2003, 09:41:39 am »
That cab would make a SWEET starwars cab!  

<duck... cover... snicker... see how bad Howard flames me... hehe>

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Re:OK, which one of you beavers is responsible for this one?
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2003, 11:22:55 am »
Is there a link or a picture that I am somehow not seeing here?

tmasman

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Re:OK, which one of you beavers is responsible for this one?
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2003, 11:27:09 am »
Is there a link or a picture that I am somehow not seeing here?

He had this:
http://www.alsarcade.com/Andy/arc/grose/pics/conv46.jpg
embedded... Maybe it didn't show up for you for some reason...
« Last Edit: September 18, 2003, 11:28:26 am by tmasman »
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Re:OK, which one of you beavers is responsible for this one?
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2003, 11:31:10 am »
Thanks tmasman, unfortunately your link isn't showing me anything either...

Oh the humanity!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  I need to see what has been done!   ;D

tmasman

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Re:OK, which one of you beavers is responsible for this one?
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2003, 11:38:36 am »
ok..ok....
I shrunk & cropped it a little, but here's the image...
It's got Pacman playing on the screen... :'(
« Last Edit: September 18, 2003, 11:39:26 am by tmasman »
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Zakk

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Re:OK, which one of you beavers is responsible for this one?
« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2003, 11:48:17 am »
Yeah, I only got $300 for that.  Man, I knew I should have cut that panel off and made a pedestal controller with neogeo layout.  


Hehe, Just kidding folks , but to be honest I would have paid a ton for it at auction.  Put the board into a mspac where it belongs, restore that sweet cab as close as possible, and then have it take the place of my middle child (she's always been a bit difficult anyway).
Back for nostalgia, based on nostalgia.

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Re:OK, which one of you beavers is responsible for this one?
« Reply #15 on: September 18, 2003, 12:19:44 pm »
History was made to be re-written....

If I could find a CS cabinet cheap, I'd mame the hell out of it ;)

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Re:OK, which one of you beavers is responsible for this one?
« Reply #16 on: September 18, 2003, 12:34:13 pm »
all historical significance aside--I think that this thing is BUTT-ugly.  I have visions of gil gerard as buck rogers dancing around it with twiki--or apollo and starbuck ducking behind it to shoot cylons--or maybe I've just been watching to much 70's tv.... ;D
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Re:OK, which one of you beavers is responsible for this one?
« Reply #17 on: September 18, 2003, 02:24:30 pm »
If you cut the cab in half vertically and glassed in a 4" section you could probably squeeze a D9200 in it.  :D

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Re:OK, which one of you beavers is responsible for this one?
« Reply #18 on: September 18, 2003, 02:26:47 pm »
Seriously?  That is one AWESOME shaped cab - so ugly it's beautiful!  It's Logans Run, Lost in Space, and reeks of late 60s futuristic-space style! I'd bid on it.
 

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Re:OK, which one of you beavers is responsible for this one?
« Reply #19 on: September 18, 2003, 03:18:18 pm »
Seriously?  That is one AWESOME shaped cab - so ugly it's beautiful!  It's Logans Run, Lost in Space, and reeks of late 60s futuristic-space style! I'd bid on it.
 

Yeah, it;s very early 70s looking :)  Wonder if someone would make a fiberglass repo for people to mame....

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Re:OK, which one of you beavers is responsible for this one?
« Reply #20 on: September 18, 2003, 03:23:05 pm »
Seriously?  That is one AWESOME shaped cab - so ugly it's beautiful!  It's Logans Run, Lost in Space, and reeks of late 60s futuristic-space style! I'd bid on it.
 

Or Blake's 7, Space 1999, or Dr Who!

Joking aside, I don't really see the problem. If you can't get parts for that machine then it's simply an ugly (or beautiful depending upon your point of view!) mostly empty box taking up a lot of space. At least if you MAME it then it's getting used. And the conversion has been done in a fairly discreet way so in the unlikely event of the parts becoming available it could probably be converted back to a working Computer Space cabinet quite easily.

This is a mass produced fibreglass box we're talking about not a ming dynasty vase!
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Re:OK, which one of you beavers is responsible for this one?
« Reply #21 on: September 18, 2003, 07:58:06 pm »
The above pic comes from this Gallery of the Grotesque/CONVERSIONS FROM HELL page.  It's rather interesting reading.

WARNING!!! The above page contains graphic scenes of burning and rotting arcade cabinets.  (How could they do that to those poor classics?)  :'(

I also snickered at these conversions...
Atari Pole Position cockpit-> Batman
Sega Star Trek
Vector with a Next Generation film poster marquee

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Re:OK, which one of you beavers is responsible for this one?
« Reply #22 on: September 19, 2003, 02:20:02 am »
Seriously?  That is one AWESOME shaped cab - so ugly it's beautiful!  It's Logans Run, Lost in Space, and reeks of late 60s futuristic-space style! I'd bid on it.
 

Or Blake's 7, Space 1999, or Dr Who!

Joking aside, I don't really see the problem. If you can't get parts for that machine then it's simply an ugly (or beautiful depending upon your point of view!) mostly empty box taking up a lot of space. At least if you MAME it then it's getting used. And the conversion has been done in a fairly discreet way so in the unlikely event of the parts becoming available it could probably be converted back to a working Computer Space cabinet quite easily.

This is a mass produced fibreglass box we're talking about not a ming dynasty vase!

There are like 16(?) of them left in the country, THAT'S the problem.  Super rare, so if you can't get it working, someone else can and will PAY you for it!  I have seen 3 of them in a restoration shop, where they wouldn't even let me make an offer because they were already spoken for.  Anyone MAMEing such a rare classic should be beaten about the head and shoulders, drawn, quartered and shot with a lightgun!
« Last Edit: September 19, 2003, 02:22:18 am by 1UP »

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paigeoliver

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Re:OK, which one of you beavers is responsible for this one?
« Reply #23 on: September 19, 2003, 03:45:43 am »
16? Where did you get that number? I have personally seen at least 30 of them on ebay in the last few years. I came up with 12 of them just through a quick reading of recent Computer Space related RGVAC posts. I know someone else who has one, and there is one sitting in that warehouse that someone recently posted pictures of.

That makes 18 counting the Ms. Pac-Man one and the three you saw in the shop, and that doesn't even scratch the surface of them. There were 1500 made, which was a pretty decent number, especially for a black & white game (most of which did maybe 200-300 units).

-EDIT-

More RGVAC reading has turned up quite a bit more of them. I stand by my statement that they really are not that rare, they just aren't for sale that often.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2003, 03:48:36 am by paigeoliver »
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Re:OK, which one of you beavers is responsible for this one?
« Reply #24 on: September 19, 2003, 03:47:47 am »

Joking aside, I don't really see the problem. If you can't get parts for that machine then it's simply an ugly (or beautiful depending upon your point of view!) mostly empty box taking up a lot of space. At least if you MAME it then it's getting used. And the conversion has been done in a fairly discreet way so in the unlikely event of the parts becoming available it could probably be converted back to a working Computer Space cabinet quite easily.

This is a mass produced fibreglass box we're talking about not a ming dynasty vase!

Wrong wrong wrong!  It IS the ming dynasty vase!  At least to true arcade historians.  (Personally I don't give a crap about some moldy old chineese pottery.)  And converting it can do harm if it's a bad conversion.  It makes the cab ugly and ruins the cabinet's reputation.  See the star wars arm chair for further example.  Also as others have stated, converting it robs a true fan of the cab the joy and opportunity or restoring it to it's full glory.

It's people that say "it's just a cab"  that make me want to get out my shotgun.  How in the world could you enjoy this hobby and not appreciate the artistry of a nice looking arcade cabinet??????  Especially CS, probably one of the most unique, and therefore, beautiful cabs in arcade history.  

People don't mame classics.  

Don't mame classics under the guise of "It can't be restored" when you know good and well it could, given enough time, money and tlc.  

Don't mame classics to make them look ugly with a non themed, clashing, add-on only to justify it by saying "it can be converted back."

Don't mame classics under the excuse "I can't find/afford a better cab to mame"

Don't mame classics with the justification of:  "This artwork is ugly, and therfore, it's not worth saving"  

Do not mame them here or there

Do not mame them in a square

Do not mame them no sir-re

Or face the wrath of HowardC

Remember kiddies, just because you don't find something valuable, doesn't mean someone else wouldn't treasure it.  There are only so many arcade cabs left in the world so if you buy one for a mame conversion and don't respect it enough to do it the proper way (as in don't make it uglier or hack it up with mods) then please pass that cab on down to someone that will and build a mame cab from scratch.  

The "I own it so I can do anything I want"  routine does not apply.  The louve(spelling?) could, in theory, paint over the Mona Lisa, but that would be an extremely thoughtless and selfish act.  An act that would horrify millions of art fans worldwide and deny countless future generations the opportunity to see it first hand.  And if you don't feel that strongly about arcade cabs then that's fine, but many are just as rare as a fine painting, so if you don't feel that way then for gods sake don't buy it and trash it.  

Ok I'm done..... go back to your business.... nothing to see here..... move it along


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Re:OK, which one of you beavers is responsible for this one?
« Reply #25 on: September 19, 2003, 03:51:49 am »
Hehe hes quite the poet and philisopher that HC  ;)
Anyway I would have to agree, just check that page out: http://www.alsarcade.com/Andy/arc/grose/#CONVERSION hell there is enough horror their to make any grown man cry  :'(

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Re:OK, which one of you beavers is responsible for this one?
« Reply #26 on: September 19, 2003, 03:52:47 am »
Oh, and by the way. For all of you that DO want to use Computer Space cabinets for Mame then you are in luck. Reading RGVAC lately it seems that they may be making some reproduction cabinets, boardsets, and control panels.
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Re:OK, which one of you beavers is responsible for this one?
« Reply #27 on: September 19, 2003, 09:38:18 am »
I'd still mame it.  Rare or not, there is barely a game there ;)

Its a great looking unusual cabinet, wasted on a B&W game that could be run by a timex digital watch.

IMHO, sell the parts and save the cab, and put something in there that people will actually use.

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Re:OK, which one of you beavers is responsible for this one?
« Reply #28 on: September 19, 2003, 11:08:13 am »
I played that game once at an arcade museum show... pretty much sucked.

Obviously, though, that cabinet shouldn't be mamed.

I could have sworn this picture came out in a thread before and someone said it was photoshopped -- a fake.
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Re:OK, which one of you beavers is responsible for this one?
« Reply #29 on: September 19, 2003, 12:09:39 pm »
 >:(

MY EYES....MY EYES.....THEY'RE BURNING!!! MAKE IT STOP!!!!

Wow, whoever did that should be banned from gaming for life!!!  >:(

The MameMaster  :'(
Seriously. Will it fit in my basement or what?

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Re:OK, which one of you beavers is responsible for this one?
« Reply #30 on: September 19, 2003, 01:30:23 pm »
I played that game once at an arcade museum show... pretty much sucked.

Obviously, though, that cabinet shouldn't be mamed.

I could have sworn this picture came out in a thread before and someone said it was photoshopped -- a fake.
There was a fake MAME conversion that had been photoshopped.  I can see a Computer Space being converted to a Ms. Pac-Man at the height of Pac-Man Fever (the board inside is likely a bootleg); at the time, there was no real sense of history, and a Computer Space cabinet would just be a ten-year old hunk of useless fiberglass to a hungry arcade operator...

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Re:OK, which one of you beavers is responsible for this one?
« Reply #31 on: September 19, 2003, 03:22:04 pm »
all other discussions aside, that picture looks faker than nude shot of britney spears, the stick is not in perspective to the panel at all, the monitor part looks convincing, but that easy.

i think its a fake made to rile us all up.

i would put an empty CS cb in my house before i would mame it, and i am the king of the unobtrusive conversion.....


oh well back to chain sawing that pac man cab into a couch 8)

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Re:OK, which one of you beavers is responsible for this one?
« Reply #32 on: September 19, 2003, 03:46:43 pm »
Seriously?  That is one AWESOME shaped cab - so ugly it's beautiful!  It's Logans Run, Lost in Space, and reeks of late 60s futuristic-space style! I'd bid on it.
 

I was watching Soylent Green this weekend and my jaw just about dropped when I saw the scene where the rich guy's "girl friend" was playing a video game and it was a white version of one of these.

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Re:OK, which one of you beavers is responsible for this one?
« Reply #33 on: September 20, 2003, 01:01:56 am »
16? Where did you get that number? I have personally seen at least 30 of them on ebay in the last few years. I came up with 12 of them just through a quick reading of recent Computer Space related RGVAC posts. I know someone else who has one, and there is one sitting in that warehouse that someone recently posted pictures of.

That makes 18 counting the Ms. Pac-Man one and the three you saw in the shop, and that doesn't even scratch the surface of them. There were 1500 made, which was a pretty decent number, especially for a black & white game (most of which did maybe 200-300 units).

-EDIT-

More RGVAC reading has turned up quite a bit more of them. I stand by my statement that they really are not that rare, they just aren't for sale that often.

OK, I don't know how many there are, so sue me...

Look again, I said "LIKE", meaning that 16 is an arbitrary number that I came up with to express how rare they are (at least you rarely see them anywhere anymore...)  God I hate when people get technical...  :P

So there were a lot of them made...I'm sure a lot have been junked or made into funky outdoor sculpture by now... ;)

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Re:OK, which one of you beavers is responsible for this one?
« Reply #34 on: September 20, 2003, 10:45:13 am »
Don't mame classics to make them look ugly with a non themed, clashing, add-on only to justify it by saying "it can be converted back."
I disagree with ya here.  In principle, as long as a classic cabinet is "mutiliated" and can be converted back, I see no problem.

Howard_Casto

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Re:OK, which one of you beavers is responsible for this one?
« Reply #35 on: September 20, 2003, 08:03:02 pm »
Don't mame classics to make them look ugly with a non themed, clashing, add-on only to justify it by saying "it can be converted back."
I disagree with ya here.  In principle, as long as a classic cabinet is "mutiliated" and can be converted back, I see no problem.

Your missing the point man.  If it's badly converted then people like me have to see pics of the bad conversion.  That's just as bad is if it were ruined, even more so, because of the fact that something could be done about it.  It's like hanging "The Venus"  above your toilet and putting magnetic pink daisies all around the frame.  Just bad form all around.  

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Re:OK, which one of you beavers is responsible for this one?
« Reply #36 on: September 20, 2003, 10:27:45 pm »
Don't mame classics to make them look ugly with a non themed, clashing, add-on only to justify it by saying "it can be converted back."
I disagree with ya here.  In principle, as long as a classic cabinet is "mutiliated" and can be converted back, I see no problem.

Your missing the point man
...
yadda yadda
...
here's something we could agree on:
the advantage is that, when people come to their senses, it's only a few nights of de-converting and a few years of therapy till the bad feeling is gone!
There is SO a spoon.

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Re:OK, which one of you beavers is responsible for this one?
« Reply #37 on: September 20, 2003, 11:47:46 pm »
Don't mame classics to make them look ugly with a non themed, clashing, add-on only to justify it by saying "it can be converted back."
I disagree with ya here.  In principle, as long as a classic cabinet is "mutiliated" and can be converted back, I see no problem.
Your missing the point man.  If it's badly converted then people like me have to see pics of the bad conversion.  That's just as bad is if it were ruined, even more so, because of the fact that something could be done about it.  It's like hanging "The Venus"  above your toilet and putting magnetic pink daisies all around the frame.  Just bad form all around.  
I fully agree with you that it's a tacky thing to do, but I just don' t think that it's a "crime" of any sort.

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Re:OK, which one of you beavers is responsible for this one?
« Reply #38 on: September 21, 2003, 02:23:07 am »
all other discussions aside, that picture looks faker than nude shot of britney spears, the stick is not in perspective to the panel at all, the monitor part looks convincing, but that easy.


hmmm....to further analyze this...there is not a shadow for the joystick - look how harsh the flash is there should be _something_ there.  Also, maybe it's there and I can't see it, but where is the hole to allow for freedom of movement of the joystick? Is it that small?  and no joystick disk? Does the monitor look skewed?  Is this the beer talking?

Someone call Francis Ford Coppola... :D

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Re:OK, which one of you beavers is responsible for this one?
« Reply #39 on: September 21, 2003, 05:27:44 pm »
Not to get entirely off-topic... Well, it's kind of on-topic, but I missed out on this type of discussion last time it came around and I thought I'd add to the "do not MAME classic cabinets" discussion.

I have two cabs that some would consider classic. The first one is a Gremlin "Head On" machine. The monitor works (although it is black and white) with minimal structural damage. The back door and bezel are missing, and the overlay has some fragments missing.

The second one is a JAMMAized Pac-Man cabinet that was once covered in a horrible mustard yellow formica. In order for the operator to get the formica to stick, they put heavy gouges in the sides and front of the cab, ruining the artwork. The bottom had moderate water damage, and the monitor was in dire need of a cap kit, and it has the gun.smoke splash screen burned in (although I'd bet it is the original Pac monitor). The CP had the original formed metal removed, leaving the wood with ten new holes drilled into it (I got it as a 2p Superstars of Wrestling).

I got the Head-On out of a pole barn slated for demolition, and I got the Pac cab from a friend whose new wife hated the rotting thing. The Head-On cab was free, I spent about 25$ on the Pac cab.

I intend to MAME them both. The Pac cab is already gutted, sanded, painted, and just needs the guts and a control panel modification in order to make it a single player vert cabinet. It is now a dark blue with florescent yellow highlights so it'll look great under a blacklight (which I am also going to install behind the marqee). The running cost of this project to date is about 100$ plus about 24 hours of labor. If I wanted to restore the cabinet to it's original condition, I would be looking a one thousand dollars or more, and that is if I had the artistic ability to use the stencils well enough to make it look decent. An artist I am not. Hell, I don't even like Pac-Man. Never did, even when it was the hot fad in the early 80's. Why on Earth would I want to sink money into restoring it? If I tried to sell it after restoration, I wouldn't even make my money back. How is this of value to me?

The Head-On machine is going to be project #3 unless I get around to installing a computer in the juke I have so it'll play MP3s. A Head-On machine in good shape goes for about 250$ IF I could find someone to buy it. Restoring the thing would probably cost much more than that. I can't exactly run down to Home Depot and buy an original Head-On overlay.  Does anyone want a simplistic black and white game in their family room anyway?

So, let's be realistic. I saved BOTH of these machines from the dump, where they would have been crushed and left to decay. Of course, it's not just homeowners who dispose of these types of cabs. I used to work for an operator that would crush cabinets daily. DAILY. And I'm not talking about generic Dynamo cabs here, either. I once saw twelve Ninja Warriors and Darius cabs crushed in less than fifteen minutes.

At the time, I could have cared less. Now I see them as a lost opportunity to give them a new lease on life. Back in 1993, MAME wasn't even a glimmer in Nicola's eye. Useless cabinets were doomed cabinets.

I imagine that today it is the same. I would bet that the compactor isn't rusting away from inactivity.

People installing MAME in a handful of cabinets isn't a problem. PERIOD. Sure, I slapped my forehead when I saw that cab where the guy chopped off the front of an old Dig Dug machine, but it was his cab, and he had every right to do with it whatever he pleased.

Look, if anyone wants to have a personal crusade to save classic cabinets from conversion or destruction, more power to you. Just bring your wallet and make room in your basement. If the thought of me "ruining" these classic cabinets is breaking your heart, make an offer and I will consider selling them to you. Then you can invest an ungodly amount of time and money into their restoration (the phrase "high investment, low outcome" comes to mind here). If not, please don't hawrang me and others like me. And please don't badger us with "restoring good, MAMEing bad" rhetoric. I am doing these cabinets a favor. They will see life again. They will be enjoyed again.

Don't worry, I won't post any pics. I don't have a digital camera. Besides, I don't feel like subjecting myself to endless criticism from people who don't like the idea of a Pac cab painted blue. But you can trust me- it looks great.

APf

« Last Edit: September 21, 2003, 05:28:48 pm by APFelon »

Howard_Casto

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Re:OK, which one of you beavers is responsible for this one?
« Reply #40 on: September 21, 2003, 06:02:36 pm »
I've just got one question for you.  Why didn't you just use the pacman cab as a template and make a brand new cab to paint blue?  l already know the answer, because you don't respect the history of the cabinet.  Excuses will not justify destruction regardless of the topic. :)

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Re:OK, which one of you beavers is responsible for this one?
« Reply #41 on: September 21, 2003, 06:36:27 pm »
I've always thought it's best not to MAME any dedicated cab (even if it's the dumbest game in the world)  because someone, somewhere is going to be upset -- and you're destroying history.  Get a generic cab, something converted beyond recognition or build your own.

While I see your point AP I can't agree that turning something dedicated into a MAME is something that's out of your control.  With the miricle of the internet there are people who will gladly take cabs off your hands, surely pay you for it and restore it.  I got the gist from your post that you kinda 'half-heartedly' offered to sell, but I think you have your mind already made that you're going to MAME it.

And sorry but I don't buy that "you're doing the cabs a favor".  Because some of these dedicated cabs are getting to be quite rare and you just added to that by opting to MAME them.  They are your cabs and I've seen worse crimes to beautiful cabs, but don't expect not to be harangued.


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Re:OK, which one of you beavers is responsible for this one?
« Reply #42 on: September 21, 2003, 06:58:52 pm »
I've just got one question for you.  Why didn't you just use the pacman cab as a template and make a brand new cab to paint blue?  l already know the answer, because you don't respect the history of the cabinet.  Excuses will not justify destruction regardless of the topic. :)

I am not a carpenter. I am a college student and a former electronic tech. I don't even have the tools to make a cabinet even if I wanted to. And I DON'T want to. And even if I DID want to, what on earth would I do with the Pac cab after I was done templating it? Restore it? Sledge it? Spend my time and effort trying to sell it? You DID read my post, right? I sometimes write more than I should, so let me nutshell this for you.

1) Both of these machines would be in a landfill right now if I didn't take them. The cabinet was converted at least four times before I got it and it only resembled Pac-Man in shape.

2) I do not have the skill, the patience, the money or the slightest like of Pac Man or Head On to motivate me to restore these machines.

3) I don't want to sell the cabs for what I bought them for. I am not Fred Sanford and do not deal in junk. I am not the humane society for old arcade cabinets.

4) It is not my job to find someone to "treasure" these machines. If people want cabs to treasure, they can do their own legwork. I am not a cabinet broker, nor do I care about some purist creedo.

5) You may offer money for the cabs. If the price is worth my while, I will sell one or both of them. You will have saved some classic cabinets from "destruction". You can also spend several thousand dollars to restore them and sell them at a loss.

I hope that answers your question, plus any others you may have.

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Re:OK, which one of you beavers is responsible for this one?
« Reply #43 on: September 21, 2003, 07:05:36 pm »
I can't believe what a hornet's nest my seemingly innocuous post has stirred up!

Howard, I doubt that many people here would disagree with the main gist of your argument. You can take it as read that anyone who regularly visits this website is passionate about arcade games. However you are adopting a ridiculously extreme position IMHO.

I think APFelon has hit the nail on the head. Ideally I'd like to see every cabinet in existence restored to its former glory. But realistically it's just not going to happen.

It's all very well saying give the cab to a collector who'll appreciate it, but there are simply not enough collectors with enough storage space out there to save every cabinet currently in existence. How do I know this? Simple. It's a matter of market forces. If there were not enough classic cabinets out there to satisfy demand from the restorers then the price of them would go up. As it's difficult to even give away a gutted cabinet you have to conclude that there is a glut of cabinets out there. Surely it's better that these cabinets get used instead of ending up on a skip. MAMEing a classic cabinet in a reversible way seems like a good compromise to me.

Actually MAMEing a classic cabinet doesn't make much sense to me because it is easier to convert a JAMMA cabinet using a J-Pac and they are generally in better condition and easier to get hold of. However that's a slightly different issue.

As APFelon said, if you want to fill your house up with gutted cabinets for posterity then more power to you. And if you have the time, skill, and money to restore them all to their former glory then that's even better.

Fortunately this problem will eventually be solved by market forces. As classic cabinets become rarer their price will go up and eventually it will become too expensive to MAME them. However the price will not increase inexorably as there will come a point where it becomes economically viable for someone to start manufacturing replicas, and as the original cabinets were cheaply made out of mass produced components the replicas will probably be indistinguishable from the real thing.

Your Mona Lisa analogy is not particularly convincing. The reason why someone at the Louvre would not paint over it is not just because that would offend art lovers all over the world (although of course it would), it's because the painting is incredibly valuable. There is only one Mona Lisa, and as it was painted by a guy who died several hundred years ago there'll never be another. Now if 1500 Mona Lisas had been mass produced in a factory only 30 or so years ago then the paintings still in existence would be almost worthless in monetary terms although they might still have some intrinsic value to art lovers.

Incidentally conversions of classic cabinets don't have to be ugly. A good recent example is OSCAR's conversion of a Sinistar cabinet to a Multi-Williams cabinet. The control panel looks awesome.
"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel." - Samuel Johnson

paigeoliver

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Re:OK, which one of you beavers is responsible for this one?
« Reply #44 on: September 21, 2003, 08:23:58 pm »
Also Pac-Man, Galaga, and Ms. Pac-Man machines are a special case.

First off they all had huge (around 100,000 each) production runs Secondly they are so popular that there are still tens of thousands of each title floating around.

In fact, there are SO MANY Ms. Pac-Man machines out there that I predict they will not be worth very much ten years from now. The arcade collecting scene is already dying down slightly, and will continue to decline forever. No one wants two Ms. Pac-Man machines. Just give it another 10 years and there will be more Ms. Pac-Man machines than there are collectors, and then they will be worthless.

As far as black and white games go. From what I have seen, no one seems to care. They may complain about it, but then they don't save them either, and don't keep them in their gameroom. I sold the non-working PCB and working monitor out of my Amazing Maze upright for simple reasons of economics. No one wanted to buy it non-working. I couldn't handle the boardset repair myself, and the shop that fixes the Midway 8080 boardsets charges like $115 plus shipping each way to do so.

So, it would have taken me about a $150 investment to get the game working, and the end result would have been a game that isn't really fun, and that no one was interested in, and that would be difficult to sell for the $150 I had into it.

So, I sold the monitor, power supply and boardset for $100 to someone else so that they could get a different (much more fun) Midway 8080 game going, and just did a cosmetic cabinet restoration and went the Mame route.

The end result there? 1 Sea Wolf machine that was previously not working is now working (from my parts). One (perhaps the last?) Amazing Maze machine that was non-fuctional is now functional, just with a slightly different function. It can still play the same game, and the new electronics (and other capabilities) ensure that it will be around for years to come.
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Re:OK, which one of you beavers is responsible for this one?
« Reply #45 on: September 22, 2003, 10:47:27 am »
I have to agree with AP here. The mere fact that something is old (classic) doesn't give it intrinsic value. I understand there's a lot of nostalgia and some of these cabs really are quite rare. But a thing is only as valuable as market and emotion allow. A lot of people may thunder on about saving these precious works of art, but lets be honest, some of these aren't worth restoring. Sitting in someone's living room, actually being played is a far better fate than the dump or a damp warehouse. Without the artwork, the original controls, and a decent monitor, a "classic" cab would be lucky get Mamed. Ok, end of Rant...

Opinions Vary!  ;)
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Re:OK, which one of you beavers is responsible for this one?
« Reply #46 on: September 22, 2003, 12:18:28 pm »
These arguments are TEDIOUS. We've heard them all a million times before. I vote for mass hangings if it's ever brought up again.

If you build a frankenpanel, chances are I don't care for you as a person.

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Re:OK, which one of you beavers is responsible for this one?
« Reply #47 on: September 22, 2003, 12:24:06 pm »
What do you say about Cabs which have been converted to death and when one gets it, there is nothing left but an empty shell : no boards, monitor, marquee, power-supply, 6 layers of paint & side art and a control board that has more holes than swiss cheese.  Do I spend the money to restore this cabinet (which I don't have.. money that is) or do I save the cabinet by MAMEing it (without mutilating(spell?) it any further)?
« Last Edit: September 22, 2003, 12:24:56 pm by nighthawk2099 »

Chris

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Re:OK, which one of you beavers is responsible for this one?
« Reply #48 on: September 22, 2003, 12:34:03 pm »
The answer, as usual, is "that depends."  :)  

My cabinet was a Super Contra, certainly not a classic by any means.  It had been badly converted to a Tekken II.  No side art, painted standard conversion black.  No electronics other than a power supply; no art, no overlay, no bezel.

I MAME'd it, but I still kept the cabinet largely intact (I cut a hole in the bottom of the back panel for a fan).  I did not put a freakishly large control panel on it.

If, however, you start to strip the six layers of paint off it and at the bottom layer find stenciled artwork like Defender or Sinistar, you might find it rewarding to restore at least the artwork.

If an empty cabinet is truly rare, and if you at least have some art to work with, I would suggest restoring it.  If you have a working or almost working classic, I would suggest trading it to someone who wants to restore in exchange for an empty cab.  The farther away from the original form the cabinet is in, the less grief you'll get and feel from MAMEing it.  

--Chris
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Re:OK, which one of you beavers is responsible for this one?
« Reply #49 on: September 22, 2003, 03:23:28 pm »
What do you say about Cabs which have been converted to death
I don't know why you all even bother to debate this with HC. He is allowed to have his own opinion (even if he's wrong). He's said it before and I'll sum it up, if its good enough to convert to mame then it can be restored. I'm sure Howard will jump in if I didn't get it exactly right...

Me I say mame if it makes sense (even non reversible changes) and if anyone hassles you ask them how many cabinets they've restored.
My statements are my own opinions. They have the value that the reader gives them. My opinion of my opinion varies between foolish and brilliant and these opinions often change with new information.

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Re:OK, which one of you beavers is responsible for this one?
« Reply #50 on: September 22, 2003, 06:44:43 pm »
These arguments are TEDIOUS. We've heard them all a million times before. I vote for mass hangings if it's ever brought up again.



AMEN.  I like these boards a lot, but geeez seems like over half the threads have been asked and beaten to death only a few months prior...just to be resurrected by another newb...

Oh well...nature of the 'net and all :)


DarkKobold

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Re:OK, which one of you beavers is responsible for this one?
« Reply #51 on: September 23, 2003, 06:21:44 pm »
Sorry, its my cab.  I guess I should change it so we can all agree on this now. What do you all think?
-------------------------------------
My games: Tapper, Asteroids, Cocktail-MAME, Tron, ROTJ, Tempest, Star Wars (not working)
My wants: Warlords Cocktail

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Re:OK, which one of you beavers is responsible for this one?
« Reply #52 on: September 23, 2003, 09:24:15 pm »
Sorry, its my cab.  I guess I should change it so we can all agree on this now. What do you all think?

woohoo!  buttons on the left and everything!

...oops
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paigeoliver

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Re:OK, which one of you beavers is responsible for this one?
« Reply #53 on: September 23, 2003, 10:20:28 pm »
Thanks for selling me your cabinet DarkKobold. I have made a few changes, because as it was it was unable to play all those 4-player 6 button vertical games.

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Re:OK, which one of you beavers is responsible for this one?
« Reply #54 on: September 24, 2003, 04:03:25 am »
Hey, I have a very similar cab. It's a dedicated driving upright. Looking for a place to put the shifter...suggestions?  ;D

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MameMaster!

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Re:OK, which one of you beavers is responsible for this one?
« Reply #55 on: September 24, 2003, 01:54:39 pm »
Apoligies in advance if this was already posted somewhere....but....


HIDE YOUR CHILDREN, COVER YOUR LOVED ONE'S EYES, PEEK, DON'T LOOK DIRECTLY AT THEM....THESE ARE

CONVERSIONS FROM HELL!!!!!!


http://www.alsarcade.com/Andy/arc/grose/index.html#CONVERSION


The MameMaster  >:( :o 8)
Seriously. Will it fit in my basement or what?

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Re:OK, which one of you beavers is responsible for this one?
« Reply #56 on: September 24, 2003, 02:04:17 pm »
Hehe.  What, no lightguns?  No dedicated paperboy?  

Frostillicus

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Re:OK, which one of you beavers is responsible for this one?
« Reply #57 on: September 24, 2003, 09:02:38 pm »
Ok Ok you caught me it's actually my conversion to the fast-paced, gripping-gameplay action of Badlands.  Unfortunately you miss out on a good portion of the horizontal screen.....


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Re:OK, which one of you beavers is responsible for this one?
« Reply #58 on: September 25, 2003, 02:15:51 pm »
OT: yeaah! that last post was my 1000th post :)

Lilwolf

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Re:OK, which one of you beavers is responsible for this one?
« Reply #59 on: September 25, 2003, 04:33:40 pm »
As for the pacman cab..

it's not necessarily a crime... more of just a little stupid (sorry to be harsh).  With the same time you put into converting it to mame... could you restore it?  If so... then you could probably sell it for enought to build a whole new cab with all the extras.

If it really is a 'classic' cab... then you would think someone would always be willing to pay enought for you NOT to mame it.

but if not... and nobody cares enough to put their money on the table... Do what you will with it.

Last extra note... if YOU like the game... its always worth NOT maming it.  (if its in working order that is)....

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Re:OK, which one of you beavers is responsible for this one?
« Reply #60 on: September 25, 2003, 04:35:46 pm »
Pac-Man and Ms. Pac-Man cabinets are pretty much worthless unless they still have the sideart. There are just too many of them around.
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Re:OK, which one of you beavers is responsible for this one?
« Reply #61 on: September 25, 2003, 06:33:53 pm »
That was some quality comedy that got started....
-------------------------------------
My games: Tapper, Asteroids, Cocktail-MAME, Tron, ROTJ, Tempest, Star Wars (not working)
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Re:OK, which one of you beavers is responsible for this one?
« Reply #62 on: September 25, 2003, 07:03:38 pm »
Hey I got an idea rip out the miss pac boards and monitor. Then put a fish tank in the empty space!!
Curls in the squat rack !?!?!

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Re:OK, which one of you beavers is responsible for this one?
« Reply #63 on: September 25, 2003, 07:54:26 pm »
As for the pacman cab..

it's not necessarily a crime... more of just a little stupid (sorry to be harsh).  With the same time you put into converting it to mame... could you restore it?  If so... then you could probably sell it for enought to build a whole new cab with all the extras.

If it really is a 'classic' cab... then you would think someone would always be willing to pay enought for you NOT to mame it.

but if not... and nobody cares enough to put their money on the table... Do what you will with it.

Last extra note... if YOU like the game... its always worth NOT maming it.  (if its in working order that is)....

Please read both posts in their entirety for your answers. Perhaps I will seem a little less stupid once you do.

Good luck!


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Re:OK, which one of you beavers is responsible for this one?
« Reply #64 on: September 26, 2003, 09:33:44 am »
Say it aint so...
Just looking at that control panel hurts my eyes...
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Re:OK, which one of you beavers is responsible for this one?
« Reply #65 on: September 26, 2003, 11:02:56 am »
(.........running around in circles screeming........)

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

NNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Re:OK, which one of you beavers is responsible for this one?
« Reply #66 on: September 26, 2003, 11:04:17 am »
Hey at least it's not termite food.
Curls in the squat rack !?!?!

Edgedamage

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Re:OK, which one of you beavers is responsible for this one?
« Reply #67 on: September 26, 2003, 11:08:58 am »
Oh shure but you say nothing about the poor converted SCRAMBLE cabinet beside it!!!!
« Last Edit: September 26, 2003, 11:10:36 am by Edgedamage »
Curls in the squat rack !?!?!

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Re:OK, which one of you beavers is responsible for this one?
« Reply #68 on: September 26, 2003, 01:18:51 pm »

I am not Fred Sanford and do not deal in junk. I am not the humane society for old arcade cabinets.


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Re:OK, which one of you beavers is responsible for this one?
« Reply #69 on: September 26, 2003, 05:55:26 pm »
Howard doesn't hate all classic conversions, just make it reversible and tie into the theme of the cab!  

Case in point:

http://www.arcadecontrols.org/yabbse/index.php?board=10;action=display;threadid=4006;start=msg24297#msg24297

 ;D
..as his cold lifeless fingers lie motionless on the garage floor, all he could hear in his head was...I JUST WANTED TO PLAY A GAME OF DONKEY KONG!!