Anyone feel like the Wii U is doomed?

[DaveMMR]

You bring up a good point, Shromkes. The Gamecube version is actually considered the superior version by many for that reason. (And for the nitpicky, the GC version has his sword in the left hand as he is traditionally left-handed).

[Vigo]

I'm just the guy who for some likes the original NES Zelda the best. I guess there are childhood memories linked to the game. (No pun intended.  )

Here are my zelda likes/ dislikes of the ones I played

Like:
Legend of Zelda
Link's awakening
Link to the past
Ocarina
Twilight Princess
Oracle of seasons

Dislike:
Wind Wanker
Wind Wanker
Wind Wanker
Zelda 2. This one has been straddling between dislike and undecided. This is accomplishment in beating this.
That train one. I made it maybe 2 hours without vomiting.
I'm sure there are a few more I blocked out.

Undecided:
Majora's Mask. It's either clever or annoying, but I haven't figured out which.
4 swords. I have nobody to play it with 
Parallel Worlds - That fan made Hack of Link to the Past


I think Skyward sword will be pretty damn good. I do kinda wish they would get over the "magic instrument" thing and just give link some magic spells or something. 

[Howard_Casto]

I have to disagree with you there. Twilight Princess was amazing. Some critics liked it even more than Ocarina Of Time. I havent played either in years, but I enjoyed TP for many reasons, the graphics, story, and gameplay were all superb. Im really excited for Skyward Sword. Cant wait, I noticed it is going to be released on a sunday. Thought that was kind of odd.

Both you AND Howard mentioned gameplay in Twilight Princess as something favorable. How can this be? Did you guys play the Gamecube version or something? Does the word "waggle" mean nothing to you? The gameplay in Twilight Princess was one step forward two steps back. Sure, firing arrows was nice, but swinging your sword, which you do approximately 34897238904723890x more often, was utter crap. I was defeated by Ganon multiple times during those sequences where you have to bounce the plasma beam or whatever it is back and forth. I was beat not because my timing was bad, but because the stupid remote has such unreliable sensors. And the stupidest thing about it is that just a few moths before the game's release, at the Tokyo game show, sword swings were mapped to the A button. They changed it last second so it would feel like it was taking advantage of the Wii's capabilities (seeing as it was the flagship launch title). And they didn't even give the gamer the option to choose. Stupid.

We've had this discussion a million times before schmokes.  You live in a E-M vortex where wiimotes don't seem to work.  They work fine for me.  Even if I were to dislike the "waggle" (I didn't, I felt it added to gameplay.) I would much prefer it over having to play a 12 note song every time I wanted to leave one portion of the map. 

[shmokes]

You live in a E-M vortex where wiimotes don't seem to work. 

I'll take the existence of the Motion Plus peripheral as evidence that this vortex in which I live is at least not a lonely place.

[Donkbaca]

You know what the next gen casual gaming machine is? Tablets with DLNA embedded. Allows you to play your games on your home tv and use your tablet as a controller.

[shmokes]

You can already do that with the iPad 2 if you have the TV connector peripheral. Real Racing 2 supports it.

[Mikezilla]

I have to disagree with you there. Twilight Princess was amazing. Some critics liked it even more than Ocarina Of Time. I havent played either in years, but I enjoyed TP for many reasons, the graphics, story, and gameplay were all superb. Im really excited for Skyward Sword. Cant wait, I noticed it is going to be released on a sunday. Thought that was kind of odd.

Both you AND Howard mentioned gameplay in Twilight Princess as something favorable. How can this be? Did you guys play the Gamecube version or something? Does the word "waggle" mean nothing to you? The gameplay in Twilight Princess was one step forward two steps back. Sure, firing arrows was nice, but swinging your sword, which you do approximately 34897238904723890x more often, was utter crap. I was defeated by Ganon multiple times during those sequences where you have to bounce the plasma beam or whatever it is back and forth. I was beat not because my timing was bad, but because the stupid remote has such unreliable sensors. And the stupidest thing about it is that just a few moths before the game's release, at the Tokyo game show, sword swings were mapped to the A button. They changed it last second so it would feel like it was taking advantage of the Wii's capabilities (seeing as it was the flagship launch title). And they didn't even give the gamer the option to choose. Stupid.

Ummm...actually it was the GC version.  I could see how that could be frustrating though. I didnt have a wii when TP came out. Thank god, or else it would have ruined the game for me, just like it did for you shmokes. 

[Malenko]

Zelda : Link to the Past was/is the best Zelda title.  Zelda 2 is only the worst if you dont include the CDi games

[Vigo]

I have to disagree with you there. Twilight Princess was amazing. Some critics liked it even more than Ocarina Of Time. I havent played either in years, but I enjoyed TP for many reasons, the graphics, story, and gameplay were all superb. Im really excited for Skyward Sword. Cant wait, I noticed it is going to be released on a sunday. Thought that was kind of odd.

Both you AND Howard mentioned gameplay in Twilight Princess as something favorable. How can this be? Did you guys play the Gamecube version or something? Does the word "waggle" mean nothing to you? The gameplay in Twilight Princess was one step forward two steps back. Sure, firing arrows was nice, but swinging your sword, which you do approximately 34897238904723890x more often, was utter crap. I was defeated by Ganon multiple times during those sequences where you have to bounce the plasma beam or whatever it is back and forth. I was beat not because my timing was bad, but because the stupid remote has such unreliable sensors. And the stupidest thing about it is that just a few moths before the game's release, at the Tokyo game show, sword swings were mapped to the A button. They changed it last second so it would feel like it was taking advantage of the Wii's capabilities (seeing as it was the flagship launch title). And they didn't even give the gamer the option to choose. Stupid.

Ummm...actually it was the GC version.  I could see how that could be frustrating though. I didnt have a wii when TP came out. Thank god, or else it would have ruined the game for me, just like it did for you shmokes. 

I have grown immune to the horrors of the controller waggle. By the time I got TP, I was so used to it shoved in every wii game that it didn't bother me as much.

[Blanka]

Whole Nintendo is doomed. Even worse, the whole serious game business is doomed. Wordfeud and Angry Birds killed the Video Game Star. Maybe the Buggles should come back together and make a new version of their song.

[Howard_Casto]

You live in a E-M vortex where wiimotes don't seem to work. 

I'll take the existence of the Motion Plus peripheral as evidence that this vortex in which I live is at least not a lonely place.

Not at all.  Again we have had this discussion a million times.  You expected the wiimote to be this magical 1 to 1 simulator that pooped rainbows and gave free hj's.  I on the other hand expected it to give a simple, additional layer of interactivity to games, which it did.  The motion plus (despite what nintendo says) was always planned but wasn't put in the original controllers because it would have made the console too expensive at the time.  

Translation:  Wiimotes work just fine if you accept what they are capable of and don't expect them to do anymore (ie they can detect when you've moved sharply and the approximate direction in which you moved).  You on the other hand want them to magically do more then they are capable of and because they don't, you say they "don't work".  


Getting back on topic.  At worst, the sword mechanics in TP were mildly annoying (I didn't think so, but some people did.) but the amazing accuracy and quickness of the hook shot and all the other accessories more than made up for it.  The wiimote was actually what the game had going for it that made it unique.  I've played both versions....   the GC version seems like a step backwards when you start using the hook shot and other stuff.  Kind of like the original metroid prime vs mp3.  

[shmokes]

That's nonsense. Wii Sports was the Wiimote's introduction to the world, developed by Nintendo internally with no purpose other than to show off the Wiimote's capabilities. In Wii Sports, THE game crafted around the Wiimote, the putting game in Golf is seriously hampered and the Boxing game is effectively unplayable.

Anyway, you can make your silly argument for any crappy product. Well, if you accept what it is capable of and don't expect it to do anymore [sic] . . .   That doesn't make sense. What makes a crappy product crappy is that it should be capable of more. It should do what it does better. Having low standards doesn't somehow make a product better. It just means you're easy to please.

[RTSDaddy2]

I like the Wii less now-due to lack of recent quality titles-and I was thinking about this last night.

 If all it offers is a way to play current games with a tablet controller... that is, no mega great title releases, it's dead.  Being realistic, I don't think just another Mario or DK adventure is gonna get it either. If it survives, it will be be something unexpected and unheard of that does it.

 No plans to upgrade but I will watch carefully...

[versapak]

I know this thread is over a month old at this point, but the 3DS is not a failure. No, they couldn't sell it at that ridiculous $250 price point, but it selling just fine at its current price.

I don't think the Wii U is going to sell at all like the Wii did, but I am sure it will still succeed. It still probably won't capture the core gaming market, but I know I will have one, and anyone else that loves the Marios, Zeldas and such will have one.

[Green Giant]

Things going for the Wii U:

Targeted towards younger players.
Marketed towards their parents who can afford it.
Will no doubt convert whatever stupid show kids love into a game, thus encouraging kids to demand it from parents.
It will be MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH cheaper than the new Xbox and Playstations.


It will succeed.

[Donkbaca]

Things going for the Wii U:

Targeted towards younger players.

Nope - Its targeted towards the hardcore audience of the Xbox 360/Ps3 crowd

Marketed towards their parents who can afford it.

Nope - see above

Will no doubt convert whatever stupid show kids love into a game, thus encouraging kids to demand it from parents.

What successful show has EVER been a good game? Much less a good enough game to carry console sales?

It will be MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH cheaper than the new Xbox and Playstations.

Maybe, but its not competing against those, its competing against the current generation of Xbox and PS3.  You can get an Xbox for under a hunder bucks.  You can get A PS3 for 150 AND both of those double as home media PC's, more or less.  The Wii U won't have a blu ray, nor will it connect to your other media devices or have as robust of an online system. 

I know this thread is over a month old at this point, but the 3DS is not a failure. No, they couldn't sell it at hat ridiculous $250 price point, but it selling just fine at its current price

It is a failure.  Even IF they hit the sales target, the lower price means a revenue hit of 40%.  How is making 40% less money than you expected NOT a failure?

[versapak]

It is a failure.  Even IF they hit the sales target, the lower price means a revenue hit of 40%.  How is making 40% less money than you expected NOT a failure?

Huh?

You say that as if it has been out for years and continued to fail after fail.

The 3DS has not yet even been out for a year, and though it's launch price and lack of system selling software had it start off sluggish, it is now selling pretty damn good. Lower profits than hoped, but profits all the same. A failure would be the console not in the hands of consumers, and no profits being made.

[shmokes]

I have a five year old girl and I wouldn't dream of putting my PS3 controller in her hands. But she's played the Wii lots of times. I think to predict the demise of Nintendo altogether is almost like predicting the demise of Fisher Price based on the fact that you don't personally enjoy their toys. Nintendo will be fine. Will they compete against Microsoft and Sony in the broader gaming space with the Wii U? I seriously doubt it. But the product will be successful if for no other reason than the existence of young children.  Think of every reason there is to own a PS3 or Xbox 360. If you've got kids under 12 are you really excited about them playing Mass Effect or Grand Theft Auto or God of War or Modern Warfare or Red Dead Redemption? Almost every single thing that makes the PS3 or 360 better than a Nintendo is inappropriate for children. And the Sony/MS systems are more expensive to boot. If you were a non-gamer parent buying for your 8 or 10 or 12 year old kid, be honest, which system is objectively superior?

Wii U will be at least as successful as the Gamecube was, I'd wager (and the Gamecube was profitable).

Don't get me wrong . . . I wish Nintendo would become more broad and cater to older gamers too. I have an intense nostalgia for Nintendo. I want to want to buy their systems. I want to be their loyal customer. I want them to succeed. I want them to dominate Sony and MS. But I'm getting older and as a result they're abandoning me to Sony and MS. C'est la vie.

[shmokes]

Nope - Its targeted towards the hardcore audience of the Xbox 360/Ps3 crowd

Maybe, but [the Wii U is] not competing against [the PS4 and Xbox 3], its competing against the current generation of Xbox and PS3. 

Those two sentences are hopelessly incompatible. I think you are confusing Nintendo's marketing speak with reality. The Wii U is going to release with hardware that appears to be approximately on-par with Sony's and MS's six year old systems. They are not targeting the hardcore market. Do they hope the bump will convince a few people to go ahead and buy into it? Of course. But hardcore is not the primary target of the Wii U. Any fool can see that that system will not appease the hardcore gamer's appetite. Nintendo is not being run by morons.

Also, the game based on a TV show that I assume Green Giant was making a veiled reference to is Pokemon. That game has pushed tens of millions of Nintendo consoles.

[Donkbaca]

Okay, lets say at your job you make an estimate for a job, and you are only able to collect 60% of what you estimated.  How is that NOT a failure?

Nintendo isn't in the business of spreading video game cheer.  They are in the business of making money, and the fact that someone missed the boat so badly on this is an unmitigated disaster.  Nintendo LOST money earlier this year and slashed the price of the 3DS  in a panic move.  

I like how you folks act like money doesn't matter. It matters BIG time.  I can't think of a single business where losing 40% of your revenue due to a miscalculation would be viewed as anything but a failure. According to Forbes magazine, the company is posting a $264 million loss this year.  The first time it has EVER posted a loss.  This is mostly due to them whiffing on the 3DS so badly.  How is losing $264 million NOT a failure?

Looks like the Wii U is headed for a similar disaster: from
 

Nintendo of America president Reggie Fils-Aime alluded to Time what type of crowd the company expects to draw with the Wii U, at least at launch.

"The consumer buying Wii hardware today is going to be a different consumer than the one who will be buying Wii U in the future," Fils-Aime told Time. "This is the first holiday that the Wii is available at $149.99 or below, so its an expanded demographic we're reaching. These are consumers who have heard about Wii for the past couple years, but at $199 or $249 it was economically out of their reach."

Based on earlier comments made by Nintendo president Satoru Iwata and now these words, it would be fair to guess that the Wii U is going to cost more than $250 in the US at launch. That figure was the launch price for the original Wii way back in 2006, and still that was cheaper than both Microsoft's Xbox 360 and Sony's PlayStation 3 at launch. Nintendo's bread and butter has been the casual audience, which one could argue includes those that wouldn't exactly leap at a $300 or $400 video game box.

Fils-Aime went on the reiterate that the Wii and Wii U will coexist for some (as he told us recently), but said, "you can definitely expect that pricing is going to be different and that the games are going to be different." In this case, "different" sounds like "more expensive" to us, and we can't help but wonder whether Nintendo's most lucrative audience will bite.

 

EB Games in AU started taking pre-orders of the WiiU for 600 bucks.  So we can realistically expect this thing to be 2-3 times the cost of an xbox 360 or PS3.  Its going to sink like a rock

[Donkbaca]

Those two sentences are hopelessly incompatible. I think you are confusing Nintendo's marketing speak with reality. The Wii U is going to release with hardware that appears to be approximately on-par with Sony's and MS's six year old systems. They are not targeting the hardcore market. Do they hope the bump will convince a few people to go ahead and buy into it? Of course. But hardcore is not the primary target of the Wii U. Any fool can see that that system will not appease the hardcore gamer's appetite. Nintendo is not being run by morons.

Okay the, what IS the audience?  Are you saying they are competing for casual gamers?  Then, aren't they competing against the wii?  Its pretty clear to me their market is people who play the PS3 and Xbox 360, and they plan on winning that crowd over with a gimmick controlller and a console that doesn't even play dvd's
  

I think they are being run by morons:

"We have repeatedly investigated whether social games, as well as smartphones, are actually affecting our business. We got the same results in our latest research that there are no causal correlations," Iwata said at the briefing for first quarter financial results in Jul. 2011.

According to research from Parks Associates, casual gamers have grown from 56 million in 2008 to 135 million in 2011 - a majority of those gamers choosing to play on their mobile devices.

"Most of this growth is due to increases in the casual gamer segments, with tablets and smartphones usurping PlayStation, Wii, and Xbox as popular gaming devices," Parks Associates research analyst Pietro Macchiarella told MSNBC. "These changes have significant implications for the gaming industry. This new majority of casual gamers is looking for games with low investments required in terms of dollars and time necessary to learn the game."

Anyone who knows ANYTHING about gaming will tell you that the iphone/ipad/android market and the facebook games are all eating into the casual game market.  Grandma used to play wii bowling, now she plays Farmville, yet Nintendo REFUSES to admit this.

That leads us to wonder if there has been anything in the works at Nintendo to change the Wii U, since it got a shockingly negative reception at E3. When the new console was unveiled, the company's stock price actually dropped, a phenomenon that is almost unheard of among the major game console companies.

In response, Nintendo president Satoru Iwata admitted there was "some misunderstanding" since the Wii U unveiling did not include any reference to the console itself - the device that users will plug into their TVs. In an interview at the time, Iwata said, "I should have shown a single picture of the new console, then started talking about the controller."

Right, because if people saw a picture of the console first, then everything would have been roses.

[shmokes]

Okay the, what IS the audience?  Are you saying they are competing for casual gamers?  Then, aren't they competing against the wii?  Its pretty clear to me their market is people who play the PS3 and Xbox 360, and they plan on winning that crowd over with a gimmick controlller and a console that doesn't even play dvd's

Of course they're competing with the Wii. They mean for this product to eventually replace the Wii altogether. This is just the console cycle that has existed since the original Nintendo. The Super NES coexisted with the NES for a time, cannibalizing NES sales, till eventually the NES went off the market. The N64 did the same thing. The Gamecube did the same. The Wii did the same. You'll see no difference with the Playstation line. In fact, you can still by a new PS2.

Hell you said yourself that

[The Wii U is] not competing against [PS4 and Xbox 3], its competing against the current generation of Xbox and PS3. 

Does that sound to you like a system targeting hardcore gamers? One that is competing against the previous gen systems of its two market rivals? Have you gone mad? In what world is that hardcore?

[shmokes]

Okay, lets say at your job you make an estimate for a job, and you are only able to collect 60% of what you estimated.  How is that NOT a failure?

It's just not black-and-white. There's failing to make as much money as you thought you would make. And then there's losing money. Both can be characterized as failures, I suppose. But they're not the same thing.

As for the 3DS being a failure as a whole, it's just silly to make that claim right now. As has already been mentioned, the system's been out less than a year. Both MS and Sony lost huge sums of money when their new systems launched. Lost hundreds of millions of dollars. Hell, Sony was taking like a $500 hit for every system sold. So simply selling 5 million systems put a -$500 million mark on their books. But I don't think you'd say today that the 360 and PS3 were failures. These systems generate revenue from sales and royalties for many years. Nintendo may not be making as much profit on selling hardware on the 3DS as they'd have liked to, but if it's selling well now and it develops a good market base Nintendo will be reaping royalties for every piece of software sold for years to come.

That's how 60% of expectations up front is not (or might not be, anyway) a failure.

[Howard_Casto]

I would like to point out that the 3ds has sold better in 8 months in both the US and Japan than the DS did it's first year.  The DS was also deemed a "failure" went through various price cuts before becoming the best selling handheld in history.  If anything, the 3DS is looking to be more successful than the ds... at least thus far.  I wouldn't dare make that prediciton this early on, it's too soon to tell, but judging by the number thus-far.....


And for the love of all that is good in the world Donkbaca, PLEASE stop comparing the smart phone/tablet market to the handheld market. 

You know what the difference is?  A typical smart phone game costs around $1.  A typical handheld game costs 20-30 dollars.  So the typical user can buy 19 smart phone games and a single handheld game in a sales period and the handheld company STILL makes more money.  That is why there isn't a direct correlation. 

You keep complaining about the 3ds and how they are getting it out there for less money, but guess what?  They are getting it out there, so nintendo gets a little money for each sold and more importantly, they get a handheld in the hands of a consumer.  The consumer is going to buy at least one game, so there is some profit right there.  As opposed to the smart phone market, where there are dozens of manufacturers, all running a free-linux, based os, and selling games on the android market that have absolutely no relation to the manufacturer of the tablet/phone. So the hardware manufacturer gets the profit from the device and that is it, and the game producers get a buck directly from the consumer while Nintendo makes roughly 30-50 bucks on the handheld, 15-20 bucks on any first party game,  5 bucks on any third party game, and money from the multitude of nintendo brand accessories. 

Yeah the smart phone industry is really killing the handheld market.   

[Donkbaca]

I would like to point out that the 3ds has sold better in 8 months in both the US and Japan than the DS did it's first year.

Everyone keeps saying this.  So what.  They weren't hoping to match the first DS sales, the first DS was a failure, it wasn't until the DS Lite came out that the thing took off.  It selling more than the DS does mean its not a failure, Nintendo is losing 200 million bucks this year, the first it has lost money in the 30 years they have been releasing financial data, and that is mostly because of the abysmal performance of the DS.  Plus, what did the DS have to compete against?  The 3DS is competing against smart phones you can get for free.

I'll dare make the prediction - it will be forgotten by next christmas

You know what the difference is?  A typical smart phone game costs around $1.  A typical handheld game costs 20-30 dollars.  So the typical user can buy 19 smart phone games and a single handheld game in a sales period and the handheld company STILL makes more money.  That is why there isn't a direct correlation. 

Right, a typical smartphone game is under 5 bucks, so I can spend 150 bucks on a dedicated gaming device and spend 40 bucks on ONE game to play on it, or I can use my free smartphone and play angry birds for a buck.  Its obvious that there is competition because they are substitute goods.

For the record, Nintendo is NOT making any money on 3DS right now:

Iwata confirmed the news, saying that "before the mass-production effect can take place for the hardware, [the price drop] will naturally generate red ink on the hardware sales."

Which is fine, if they were going the SONY route to get in at a price comfortable to consumers, then for the device to gain traction and become profitable later on in its product cycle when the cost of components goes down.  But this was NOT a strategy Nintendo had.  Its a reaction to an extreme lack of demand.  Its more of a "---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- we have all these 3DS's laying around, lets cut our loses" sort of deal.

[Vigo]

There is the bit about demographics though. How many smart phone users are 13 and under? Almost Nil. The families that give their little kids smart phones also end up getting their kids a go-kart, a Pony and a new BMW on on their 16th birthday. They also get their kid a 3DS. Little kids are by far the major demographic, and they are the ones who don't have the option to play on a smartphone all day.

Not saying that things won't change, especially with tablets quickly on the rise, apple marketing to little kids, and the trend to give children phones at younger and younger ages. For the time being, I think Nintendo still will corner the handheld market. Right now, I think Sony will have a harder time hawking their system to the crowd that uses smart phones that donk is talking about.

And with that, the first figures on the Vita release in Japan over the weekend are looking sad. While solid figures are not exactly there yet, it looks like it is failing in numbers compared even to the 3DS. We will see for sure later.

[Donkbaca]

I completely disagree with you

Nintendo's handheld games are casual games, the same types of games people play on their phone

I think Sony will have LESS of a problem, because they aren't marketing to the social gamers that play smartphone games, they are marketing to the dude that plays Uncharted 3 start to finish and takes the day off of work when Skyrim drops.   

The Vita sold twice as many units s the PSP did at launch and was BARELY behind the 3DS, which targeted a much broader market. 

In any case, you can't follow Japanese sales numbers.  Those guys play some weird ass ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- over there.

[Vigo]

Well, you are right the Vita sales numbers don't mean anything yet. We will eventually see.

I do tend to think that handheld systems appeal to more semi-casual gamers, simply because the serious gamers stick with consoles.

Now that the 3DS is in the right price range, it has been reported as the #1 Christmas device by demand, but I we won't know if the system will take hold unless we see a spike in games sales in the upcoming months. People could just be jumping on it as a gift because they are clueless as to what to get little Timmy for Christmas, and the 3DS has become affordable.

[DaveMMR]

I'll dare make the prediction - it will be forgotten by next christmas

Are you really sure you want to make that prediction?  Nintendo does not pull punches when marketing their hardware. Your statement proving true might be a longer shot than most state lotteries.

You don't have to like Nintendo - no one's asking you to.  But look at with unbiased eyes. Their history has been fairly consistent.  Even when they weren't the top dog, they still managed to do just fine. Their one major failure, the Virtual Boy, was their only major failure out of ELEVEN North American hardware releases. And it was not marketed as a replacement for the home console or handheld market, so it was not as catastrophic, long term.

Nintendo is losing 200 million bucks this year, the first it has lost money in the 30 years they have been releasing financial data, and that is mostly because of the abysmal performance of the DS.  Plus, what did the DS have to compete against?  The 3DS is competing against smart phones you can get for free.

What did the DS have to compete against?  Umm.. the PSP. The system all analysts and gaming journalists predicted will be a runaway hit, burying the DS. Guess which system not only prevailed but actually became the best selling handheld of all time (2nd best console overall behind the PS2)? 

And I think it's funny you bring up Nintendo's loss (for the first time IN THIRTY YEARS - yes that includes the year of the aforementioned Virtual Boy and even when they were dead last in the console race) as proof positive they're going to fail but never mentioned that Sony and Microsoft have CONSISTENTLY posted loses of tons more money from their consoles. Heck, the profits from the PS2 - again, best selling system of all time - have all been exhausted on marketing and selling the PS3.  Being in the console business is very expensive but only Nintendo knows how to work this industry for profit.

Personally, after the glorious reviews of Mario Kart 7 (some are calling it one of the best Mario Karts), I may have to buy a couple of 3DS's for myself now....

[Donkbaca]

I am looking at it with unbiased eyes. Nintendo lost 200 million bucks last year because they missed the boat on the 3DS and they are losing money on each unit sold.  They are hoping that by March, they will be able to turn a SMALL profit on the 3DS IF component costs go down.  On top of that they are launching a new system.  Unless they start making money on this thing, why on earth would they continue to support it?

So why did the PSP lose to the DS?  It was pricier, and the games more or less suck on it.  Smartphones are free, games are a buck.  You are saying this is the same scenario?  Why did the DS beat the PSP?  Why do you think the 3DS will survive in the light of smartphones competing based on that experience?  Please explain.

And I think it's funny you bring up Nintendo's loss (for the first time IN THIRTY YEARS - yes that includes the year of the aforementioned Virtual Boy and even when they were dead last in the console race) as proof positive they're going to fail but never mentioned that Sony and Microsoft have CONSISTENTLY posted loses of tons more money from their consoles

That's because the latter two are completely different companies.  Sony lost money on its consoles as a strategy to get market penetration, they figured they would make money on the hardware later on in the life cycle of the units as production prices went down and they achieved economies of scale.  Sony decided to lose money on the PS3 so that they could push Blu Ray and bury HD DVD as the premier media format.  On top of all that, Sony isn't a game company, they can afford to lose money short term to achieve long term objectives - ditto for MS.  Nintendo does NOT have that luxury, its a game company, all it makes is games and consoles, if its not making money from games and consoles, it goes out of business.

On top of that, how is the company going to turn around next year?  The wii is dead in the water, I don't see it roaring back to life as a console.  Do you really think people are going to spend 400+ bucks on a WiiU?  It doesn't even play DVD's.  Have you seen the ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- the Xbox can do now?  I am going to watch UFC 141 for FREE on XBOX live.  What compelling reason is Nintendo going to give me to buy the wiiu?  For 200 bucks you can get an xbox 360 with a connect.

Its not about the past, its about the future.  Nintendo has NO cache.  Think about all the great games that people were looking forward to this fall - Skyrim, Saints Row III, Call of Duty, Battlefield, Forza, Uncharted 3.  NONE of them are playable on Nintendo hardware.  The only game that has any buzz is Skyward Sword.  Mario Kart 7 and the 3d Mario finally have given people a reason to get a 3DS, but what is coming out next year that is going to make me think the next year won't be any different than this year?

[lilshawn]

I'd have to say that nintendo is more interested in inventing the next big gimmick. They are looking to be different.

if you people want to buy something different, with some kind of crazy gimmick, get a wii u.

if you people want the same system only faster, buy the other ones.

wanna make a game system???

Me idea Number 1... jam the Wii U into controller only and sell it as a portable system. haven't you all noticed the portable systems sold by sony and nintendo are basically 2-3 generations behind in terms of performance/quality. (DS is basically a portable N64 (in fact porting several of the games)) having a current gen performance/quality in a portable system would be awesome.

Me idea Number 2... this whole not being able to do this or that has to stop. everybody streams content now a days. let's build on that. these game manufacturers make it so damn hard to get my crap from the computer to the TV. that and a DVD licence costs eff all, hell i can buy a DVD player NIB for $9, can we make this $200 or $300 machine which takes disks read the damn things now?

Me idea number3... 

Me idea number 4... Profit

[shmokes]

Why do you think the 3DS will survive in the light of smartphones competing based on that experience?  Please explain.

We are talking about two TOTALLY different demographics. The fact that YOU have a free smartphone doesn't make YOUR KID want a DS any less. I have never in my entire life known someone under fifteen years old who owns a smartphone. I'm sure there are some fourteen and even thirteen year olds who have them. But not your average thirteen year old. It just IS NOT THE CASE. Smartphones may be free, but the 2-year contracts that make them "free" are not free. Kids don't have smartphones. They have DSes.

[versapak]

Why do you think the 3DS will survive in the light of smartphones competing based on that experience?  Please explain.

We are talking about two TOTALLY different demographics. The fact that YOU have a free smartphone doesn't make YOUR KID want a DS any less. I have never in my entire life known someone under fifteen years old who owns a smartphone. I'm sure there are some fourteen and even thirteen year olds who have them. But not your average thirteen year old. It just IS NOT THE CASE. Smartphones may be free, but the 2-year contracts that make them "free" are not free. Kids don't have smartphones. They have DSes.

My 13yo daughter is getting an iPhone for Christmas, but it is a 3GS that we got for a good deal from my neighbors brother. She would have no interest in owning a 3DS though. That would be my other daughter who is indeed getting one of those for Christmas.

[shmokes]

My five-year-old daughter has her own cellphone.    It's not a smartphone, but I think it almost inconceivable that she won't have a smartphone by the time she's thirteen.

Nevertheless, she doesn't represent the norm. The norm right now is that probably less than 20% of DS owners have smartphones.

[shmokes]

No, not really.

[yotsuya]

Santa's bringing my daughter a 3DS as well.

[Howard_Casto]

What about an Ipod Touch or the multitude of Android devices?  Do kids get those?

You guys missed my point.  Childern and gamers in particular will want a handheld console first and a smartphone/ect second or not at all. 

There are definately kids/gamers that will want a smartphone for other uses and buy games for it because it happens to play games, but that doesn't interfere with their gaming expendature because these are titles they wouldn't have normally bought.  This isn't knocking one device over another, it's just the type of person who would buy a smartphone as their primary gamign device probably would have never been "hardcore" enough to buy a 3ds or any handheld in the first place.

To use an example that knocks nintendo directly, buying a smartphone soley for gaming is like buying a wii soley for first person shooters. 

Also Donkbaca I think youa re getting your facts mixed up and it's no wonder considering the way websites/the news jumps all over Nintendo  whenver they aren't printing money. 

They haven't lost 200 million they have lost 200 million in potential earnings.  In other words, they lost magical unicorn vapor.    Nintendo will still end the year with a profit, it just isn't as large a profit as they promised their shareholders. 

To set the record straight, I believe they did lose 200 million.... on the 3ds only.... for the first quarter.  Reporters seem to be confusing this earlier 200mil loss with the 200mill potential earnings loss.  This is indeed a major hit in their wallet, but overall, the company will make a profit.  Gaming aside, they make a buttload just on the pokemon franchise, which is so big that it is handled by 3 or 4 seperate umbrella corporations. 

Just for the record though, Nintendo's financial year really ends in March, so NOBODY knows for sure if they will make a profit or not for this year, at least not until sometime in late feb.

[DaveMMR]

Regarding smart phone gaming: You're forgetting that Nintendo's stable of franchises are HUGE; none of them are being released on smart phones.

And as someone who owns/owned an iPhone, Droid and dedicated handheld systems (e.g. DS); I can say straight gaming is much better on the handhelds. Gamers doing their gaming on strictly on phones may feel a little shorted.

[Green Giant]

Things going for the Wii U:

Targeted towards younger players.

Nope - Its targeted towards the hardcore audience of the Xbox 360/Ps3 crowd

Marketed towards their parents who can afford it.

Nope - see above

When I say younger players, I mean non-extreme violence games.  Wholesome games that wouldn't give your grandpa flashbacks to the war.

They can still be extreme and addicting while also remaining kid friendly.  I think Mario is targeted to the kid in all of us while Modern Warfare 3 is targeted to the mercenary assassin in all of us.



And I think it will be targeted towards parents who unlike yourself are not video game savvy.  They will go up to Best Buy, look at the new $600 xbox or the new $700 playstation and then spot the hip new Wii U for $300ish.  Some salesman will give them a spiel about the interface and ability to play their existing Wii games.




I don't see how it could be better targeted to kids and their parents.  Thus it WILL succeed.

[Green Giant]

Its not about the past, its about the future.  Nintendo has NO cache.  Think about all the great games that people were looking forward to this fall - Skyrim, Saints Row III, Call of Duty, Battlefield, Forza, Uncharted 3.  NONE of them are playable on Nintendo hardware.  The only game that has any buzz is Skyward Sword.  Mario Kart 7 and the 3d Mario finally have given people a reason to get a 3DS, but what is coming out next year that is going to make me think the next year won't be any different than this year?

If I had an 8 year old I don't think I would want him playing any of those games.....well maybe forza is ok.  Hell xbox live in general is very kid UNfriendly.  So much smack talking.