Anyone feel like the Wii U is doomed?

[rlemmon]

Hi guys. I’m not trolling here I’m a big Nintendo fan and a Mario freak. I have a gut feeling that the Wii U is sort of doomed to fail for a few reasons. First of all there calling it the Wii U. Seriously did they not learn anything from parents/uneducated gamers thinking that the 3 ds was just an updated 3ds and not a whole new platform?

Then there’s the tablet controller. It seems like a gimmick to me. I guess it could be fun in some respects but I think it’s more of a novelty. If it’s perceived that way by the public Nintendos gonna have a really big problem.  There’s also the launch games issue. I remember an article with Reggie Fils-Aime talking about how if they were to launch the 3 ds with big name first party games it would make gamers feel that there was no third party support.

 I would say kind of stupidity is part of why the 3 ds is in trouble. If it had been launched with Super Mario land 3d along with a Zelda game and a $200.00 price point things would be very different.  I just seems like they got a little two cocky with there massive wii sales. What do you guys think? Have Nintendo learned from there mistakes and does the wii U have a good chance of making it? I would hate to see Nintendo go down the sega road. That would kill a part of me.

[Howard_Casto]

If by "doomed" you mean that it isn't a worlwide hit like the wii is then it's possible.  If by "doomed" you mean that they'll be pulling it from the shelves a year later then no, it will do fine. 

Nintendo doesn't make a failing console, it's as simple as that.  They are the oldest hardware manufacturer still in the industry and they only have one complete flop to their name (virtual boy).  It's a little ironic that their next handheld to feature 3d isn't doing so well either. 

As for mistakes, there aren't many to learn from.  The only thing they really did wrong was to release the 3ds before they had a large enough library of quality, first-party titles.  Note that remakes of n64 games do NOT count as quality titles. 


The wii U will basically be a massive processing and graphics upgrade to the wii.  If the touchscreen doesn't catch on it is backwards compatable with wii controllers so all will be well. 

Worst case scenario it will only do as well as the gamecube and it sold millions of units, which was still enough to make a modest profit. 

[danny_galaga]

  What Howard said

[Well Fed Games]

I was a big Nintendo fan until they pretty much stopped supporting the Wii with games altogether. I don't think the Wii U will be able to succeed... people already have Wiis, and now that consoles are competing with iPads and $200 Kindle Fires, the touch aspect is nothing to write home about.  I think I would like to be divorced from Nintendo hardware, so part of me wants them to go the Sega route.

[Vigo]

They didn't even line up enough 3rd party games either for the DS release either. I remember it was pretty much Mr. Driller or a dating Sim game.

[Donkbaca]

I would disagree with HC's assessment that they only flop has been the Virtua Boy.  The 3DS is a slam dunk flop, they lowered the price less than six months after release, sales were so miserable that Nintendo earnings suffered, and not only that, but Nintendo themselves don't think that sales will pick up because they have lowered their earnings forecast twice.  If that wasn't bad enough, they released that stupid right analog stick peripheral, other than headphones and an AC adapter, what peripheral has EVER been succesful on a handheld?  Anyhow the hot rumor is that they are going to completely redisign the 3ds next year with the right analog stick integrated.  I don't see how you think that isn't a flop.

The wii was great, but Nintendo never really supported it well from the get go, instead it allowed anybody that wanted to to make a game.  So at the beginning there were a TON of wii games, but they were mostly garbage.

The president of Nintendo himself has said that the controller will be just that, a controller.  It will have no tablet functionality to it.  Its going to be similar in concept with the Vita, where you can transfer games from a handheld onto your console.  Except the Vita is a standalone system that you can take anywhere, the controller will need to be coupled with the console.

I have said this before and will say it again, what is the market?  Its not a next gen console in terms of capabilities, Nintendo's president pretty much says as much.  Its only revolutionary thing is the touch screen controller, and if that is a big hit, Sony and MS will be a year away from making a competing peripheral.

As far as I can tell, the people most likely to buy are Nintendo fanboi's ( a shrinking cohort), or people that don't have a wii/xbox360/ps3.  I think that is a small segment of the population.

Really though, its all about the games.  If it has a strong library at launch exclusives, it could do well, if not, then its going to sink like a rock.  That is part of the reason the 3ds sucks - no compelling games at launch.

I think Nintendo has really dropped the ball lately.  The 3ds is a disaster, not making the wii HD was a big misstep, and this is the 25th anniversary of Zelda, a game that has pretty wide appeal, and there has been hardly any marketing push around that.

At this point in the game, I think Nintendo should just stop making hardware.  What is great about Nintendo has always been the games.  If they ported SMB to the iphone, it would sell like nothing you have ever seen before.  Imagine what a six month exclusive for the next Zelda game would be worth to Sony or MS?  I am sure their revenue would go through the roof.

[Mikezilla]

At this point in the game, I think Nintendo should just stop making hardware.  What is great about Nintendo has always been the games.  If they ported SMB to the iphone, it would sell like nothing you have ever seen before.  Imagine what a six month exclusive for the next Zelda game would be worth to Sony or MS?  I am sure their revenue would go through the roof.

Ugh.  Reminds me of how excited people were to see Sonic games everywhere... and we all know how well that turned out..

Damn. PBJ has a very good point.

I think Nintendo has really dropped the ball lately.  The 3ds is a disaster, not making the wii HD was a big misstep, and this is the 25th anniversary of Zelda, a game that has pretty wide appeal, and there has been hardly any marketing push around that.

I thought of this as well, being a huge Zelda fan and all. I know graphics dont make the game, but they sure as hell help. Im not going to buy a Wii U just to play one or two games on it. I couldnt even enjoy the latest Mario Galaxy games because they make me have motion sickness. Im going to get Zelda for the Wii, like I said, I love the games and Im a fan, but man, I get spoiled by the visuals from my PS3 and 360, so its going to be kinda like "damn it Nintendo, why didnt you make the Wii HD and actually make the 25th anniversary of Zelda relevant". A gold controller doesnt really cut it... Didnt they say that Zelda will probably be the last Wii game they are going to make?

[ark_ader]

Its going to do well for those whom it will benefit.  I will not last though.

[Howard_Casto]

The 3ds can't be considered a flop yet because they are still selling them.  I should point out that Nintendo is still making a profit even with the 3ds.  They are simply making less of a profit than they would like and since a lot of their revenue comes from liscenses and software, they reduced the price hoping to get a higher adoption rate.  It worked really well in Japan.  Sales went through the roof once they dropped the price. 

Having the wii a SD console is what let nintendo win the console war this go around.  It allowed them to sell a console 100 dollars cheaper than the 360 and 200 dollars cheaper than the ps3.  Now that the prices are starting to level out, sure it hurts the wii to be in SD, but guess what?  As soon as sales dropped, they announced the Wii U, which I guarantee you they had been sitting on until the time was right. (They did this a lot in the Gameboy days)  This was a VERY smart move on their part if you ask me. 

If Nintendo stops doing hardware then Nintendo ceases to exist.  They build their hardware around a particular game idea, unlike M$ and Sony who build a console and then makes around it.  This difference in hardware developement is what has lead to virtually every bit on hardware innovation since nintendo started making video games. 

You asked who the target demo is.  It's anybody who wants to play Mario, Zelda or Metroid.  Seriously that's all they need.  It literally carried the n64 and gamecube.  That is why I replied that the Wii U could never really be doomed.  The thing is once you have the new wii for those games you'll buy other, third party games.

[Well Fed Games]

  Having the wii a SD console is what let nintendo win the console war this go around.

Wait, what? No.

[DaveMMR]

Yeah everything Howard said. Predict what you want, hate them all you'd like, vow never to buy anything Nintendo ever again - but they'll do just fine. Their stable of characters (Mario, Link, etc.) are highly recognized and more importantly, exclusive (the CD-i debacle notwithstanding). There aren't really bad Mario games (arguably weak, maybe - but not out-and-out "bad"). Same goes for Zelda titles. These alone move hardware. And even though much maligned, their family-friendly image is still a tick in the pro column for parents buying for younger kids.

Yes, Nintendo is no longer synonymous with video games like they were during the 3rd Generation (NES) but they're still relatively healthy. They're posting a loss this year, but compare that to Sony and Microsoft's loss (or Sega's complete exit from hardware which culminated from all their missteps.)

  Having the wii a SD console is what let nintendo win the console war this go around.

Wait, what? No.

Actually yes. He explained why. It made it cheaper and made the console more attractive to consumers, especially compared to the $600+ PS3 or the $300 Xbox 360. And it was profitable from day one. Plus HD TV's were not yet as prevalent as they are these days when the Wii was released.

[Donkbaca]

SD had nothing to do with it, the wii was popular  because of its gimmick controller that let grandma play wii bowling and because housewives wanted to play wii fit. The cheap price helped a lot too. The 3DS has been a complete loser. It will be off the shelf by next Xmas. Why would you spend 200 bucks on a game boy when the next generation android tablets are going to be $200? 

So the advantage the wii had - it was cheap and appealed to the casual gamer. None of that will apply to the WiiU. It will be $300 and is targeted towards hardcore gamers

[danny_galaga]

I still think it will be awesome to have a fps shooter where the guy with the tablet gets to fly in a helicopter and 'look down' on the other players who are using the big screen. If a 'halo'esque killer ap like that launches with the U I reckon that'll create new interest.

[Well Fed Games]

I guess my definition of "won the console war" is different from yours, as I am going off of what I hear from my gaming friends and gaming podcasts like the Bombcast, Joystiq, Player One, etc.  The Wii will be a footnote in popular culture while the 360 is the PS2 of this generation. Not to say that the Wii didn't sell well, or was a lot of fun, but even including motion controls (was it ever explored to its fullest?), Nintendo has been lacking innovation for the last decade- even failing to capitalize on its own IPs, which are its only lifeblood (no celebration of Zelda 25th, Metroid Other M, no Mario game at 3Ds launch, etc.). I mean, when did Nintendo bring out a game with a character that wasn't at least 10 years old?

Hopefully they can turn it around, because I really want to play NSMB Wii 2 someday (or, in my heart of hearts, Wind Waker 2).

[Donkbaca]

I still think it will be awesome to have a fps shooter where the guy with the tablet gets to fly in a helicopter and 'look down' on the other players who are using the big screen. If a 'halo'esque killer ap like that launches with the U I reckon that'll create new interest.

Well there isn't one in the works as far as I know, and there are so Many FPS games out it would have to be pretty good. Besides most people play those games alone, online.

[Mikezilla]

(or, in my heart of hearts, Wind Waker 2).

Ugh, can someone drag this knucklehead out into the street and shoot him?  It'll be easier that way.

Seriously. You are probably the only person that I have ever "known" to like that game, let alone hope for a sequel. GOD I hated that tripe. 

[Vigo]

It takes a rare breed to like the Wind Wanker. I have to give the game a bit of credit for at least trying to break the mold that all zelda games seem to fall in, but man, after sailing around endlessly hoping to find some landmark, you end up feeling that playing a bass fishing video game would be much more exciting...

[Well Fed Games]

Aww, sailing around, the feel of discovery? Nothing but love for Wind Waker here, but I know I am in the minority. Most people just want a rehash of Ocarina every time... at least the WW feel continued on the portable Zeldas.

[Howard_Casto]

I guess my definition of "won the console war" is different from yours, as I am going off of what I hear from my gaming friends and gaming podcasts like the Bombcast, Joystiq, Player One, etc.  The Wii will be a footnote in popular culture while the 360 is the PS2 of this generation. Not to say that the Wii didn't sell well, or was a lot of fun, but even including motion controls (was it ever explored to its fullest?), Nintendo has been lacking innovation for the last decade- even failing to capitalize on its own IPs, which are its only lifeblood (no celebration of Zelda 25th, Metroid Other M, no Mario game at 3Ds launch, etc.). I mean, when did Nintendo bring out a game with a character that wasn't at least 10 years old?

Hopefully they can turn it around, because I really want to play NSMB Wii 2 someday (or, in my heart of hearts, Wind Waker 2).

Nintendo failed to innovate over the last 10 years?  They brought motion controls to the masses, so much so that the other two "hardcore" console now have their own motion controls.  With the wavebird they released the first, first-party wireless controller to ever be popular.  Now this generation wireless controllers are the standard.  They reinvented metroid... twice and put 2d mario back on the consoles in a new way.  Yeah they haven't innovated any between 2001 and 2011. 

And sorry you are wrong about the whole pop culture thing.  30 years from now the game titles will be virtually irrelevant but everybody will remember the system that made them get off their couch and wave their arms around.  Ask your mom what she knows about the 360 or ps3.  Now ask her about the Wii.  I almost guarantee you that she will know more about the wii. 

Don't misunderstand, I like my 360, at this point I primarily game on my 360, but my 360 is nothing special.

I think you are confused.  Things that you don't personally like are relevant, even if you don't like them.  A lot of people flat out hate motion controls, for example, but there is no denying their impact on gaming and the gaming culture. 

Just for the record, I liked wind-waker too.    But then again, after they essentially released it two more times on the DS, I understood that it needed to stay a stand-alone title. 

[Well Fed Games]

I think you are confused.  Things that you don't personally like are relevant, even if you don't like them. 

Nope, not confused- unless the majority of games media is too, who see the Wii not as a failure, but as a perfect example of unfulfilled potential. I like my Wii, too, but have my own opinions about how it will be remembered, how the WiiU will be received, and whether someone's mom's awareness of a console makes it a success or not.  Now, for fear of actually being a person who fights online about what console is best (shudder), I'll be sure to make my last opinion in this thread this one: every console has great games, and games are fun.

[Howard_Casto]

Nope, not confused- unless the majority of games media is too, who see the Wii not as a failure, but as a perfect example of unfulfilled potential.

What does that have to do with it winning the console war, or being relevant in pop-culture?  I'll remind you that people still talk about the pet rock. 


Just for the record, there is no such thing as "games media."  Video game magazines are dead.  Online sites, while commercial, are just blogs.  There are hardly any legitimate critics on staff.  And people in the industry are far too involved to give a good opinion.  Just as an example they have never correctly predicted which console will win the war.  Now plenty of actual gamers have, but gaming journalists... nah, they are always wrong. 

[Malenko]

I dont really care who wins what console war. I bought an N64, I didnt buy a gamecube. I didnt want a wii, GF made me get it. I wont get a WiiU. I wont get a 3DS. I also wont get a Kinect or a PS Move.  Actually, the 360/PS3/Wii are most likely my last consoles and my slim NDS is most likely my last hand held, my iPhone 4s and Dell Streak 7 dont count as gaming devices.



ba humbug

[Howard_Casto]

I dont really care who wins what console war. I bought an N64, I didnt buy a gamecube. I didnt want a wii, GF made me get it. I wont get a WiiU. I wont get a 3DS. I also wont get a Kinect or a PS Move.  Actually, the 360/PS3/Wii are most likely my last consoles and my slim NDS is most likely my last hand held, my iPhone 4s and Dell Streak 7 dont count as gaming devices.



ba humbug

I find that hard to believe from a  guy that is enjoying the new batman game that much.   The problem about gaming is, even if you say you are going to quit it, some game comes out and you go "holy crap that is the best thing ever!" and then you are back in.  I've threatened to quit two or three times and yet I haven't missed a single generation.  I said I wouldn't get a gamecube because it was a terrible system compared to a xbox (see I told you guys I wasn't a nintendo fanboy) and then metroid prime and re4 came out and I was off to the store to buy one.   

It's Kind of like this hobby actually. 

[chillinwater]

Doomed ? No. Successful? Yes. Relevant? Maybe.

Between fanboys who will always love Nintendo regardless of the product and parents who by nature associate Nintendo as somthing good for there kids, they will be successful.

Unless they have some killer apps and not continuous rehashes of Super Mario, SM Kart, Zelda it will be irrelevant to me.
No matter the power or sexyness of any system its always about software.

My Wii has been collecting dust for years now, since my daughter was 7, shes now 12. Shes not even interested in it.
Havent purchased a 3Ds yet. No current software to entice or wow me or my daughter.

Is the new Wii U controller a gimmick?
Hey remember when the Gamecube allowed you to use your gba as an extra game screen? Sound familiar?

Again unless there is some killer app that isnt available on any other system, I'll pass on the Wii U. Will U?

[AtomSmasher]

Hey remember when the Gamecube allowed you to use your gba as an extra game screen? Sound familiar?

The Wii also allows you to use your DS as an extra controller, but the game has to be setup to utilize it, so it was very rarely used.

My prediction is the Wii U will be about as successful as the Gamecube.  It will have a few great games and won't be considered a flop, but it will largely be ignored by the average gamer.  The success of the Wii has eliminated the casual market since they will by happy with their Wii's for quite some time, and it's push to attract the casual gamer caused the hardcore gamer to become jaded, so I think Nintendo is going to have a large uphill battle to make the Wii U a success.

[Donkbaca]

I agree, though that would be considered a failure on the heels of the Wii's success. Also the 3ds flopping puts a lot of pressure on making this thing a success. My guess is it will sell moderate units, and that will be considered a flop

[Howard_Casto]

Hey remember when the Gamecube allowed you to use your gba as an extra game screen? Sound familiar?

The success of the Wii has eliminated the casual market since they will by happy with their Wii's for quite some time......

For the 12 people out there who still haven't bought a wii I suppose this is true, but otherwise it isn't. 

It's for a far more practical reason than you might think. 

Let's put it this way:

I will eventually get a 3ds even though I'm not interested in it in the least.  Why?  Well because I get a lot of use out of my DS and eventually they will stop making games for it.  So I have the option of only playing the DS back-library or getting a 3ds.  The choice is obvious. 

This is what will happen with the Wii U.  Say your family loves the wii and they've already bought all the games they like for it?  Well you are going to have to buy the Wii U if you want any more, but don't worry all of your expensive add-on controllers will still work with it.  It's already happening actually... the flow of wii games has almost halted at this point except for some really really terrible third-party games.

See Nintendo's deceptively smart about things like this. 

As for the hardcore community, we are going to have to see.  Nintendo's biggest problem has always been that they don't get the third partys on board to make "hardcore" games because their system is under-powered or they have a wierd controller or something similar.  The wii U is a HD system with a standard controller layout (albeit with a screen, but it could be largely ignored).  There will almost definately be capcom games on it considering their strong relationship.  Ubisoft seems to have a strong interest in the console as well and that might be the deal-breaker right there.  The pop/ac series are top sellers and if ubi can take advantage of the controller to enhance the AC experience it could appease the hardcore crowd.  This is just speculation though, we will have to see. 

I came out of E3 worried, but as time has passed and I've actually had the time to process the decisions Nintendo made and they aren't that stupid, they are actually quite clever.  They will be the first out of the gate for the next generation, possibly with no competition for years, which is always a bonus.  Their new controller is far more traditional and yet they have added compatability for their old controllers, meaning that they can go either way depending upon the public's reaction.  They've also managed to build relations on the "inferior" wii with companies that have emerged as rock stars like ubisoft, meaning that they might actually get so legitimate third-party support this time.  The hand is there and it's a good one, we'll all have to wait and see how the cards fall.

[AtomSmasher]

Hey remember when the Gamecube allowed you to use your gba as an extra game screen? Sound familiar?

The success of the Wii has eliminated the casual market since they will by happy with their Wii's for quite some time......

For the 12 people out there who still haven't bought a wii I suppose this is true, but otherwise it isn't. 

It's for a far more practical reason than you might think. 

Let's put it this way:

I will eventually get a 3ds even though I'm not interested in it in the least.  Why?  Well because I get a lot of use out of my DS and eventually they will stop making games for it.  So I have the option of only playing the DS back-library or getting a 3ds.  The choice is obvious. 

This is what will happen with the Wii U.  Say your family loves the wii and they've already bought all the games they like for it?  Well you are going to have to buy the Wii U if you want any more, but don't worry all of your expensive add-on controllers will still work with it.  It's already happening actually... the flow of wii games has almost halted at this point except for some really really terrible third-party games.

You're confusing the casual market with the normal gaming market.  Grandma is not going to buy another game console because she will be happy with the one she already has.  They will not be looking to buy a new console and don't pay attention to when new consoles are released.  Nintendo was able to capture a huge market who are normally not into gaming, and it's something that won't happen again for quite a while.

[Mikezilla]

Man. I really hate the term "killer app". Especially when people use it seriously. 

[Vigo]

That phrase was probably coined by Kid Vid of the Burger King Kidz Club.   

[shmokes]

(or, in my heart of hearts, Wind Waker 2).

Ugh, can someone drag this knucklehead out into the street and shoot him?  It'll be easier that way.

Seriously. You are probably the only person that I have ever "known" to like that game, let alone hope for a sequel. GOD I hated that tripe. 

I loved Wind Waker. It has the best art direction of the series, some of the best in all of videogame history. And it's a far better game in almost every way than Twilight Princess.

[Howard_Casto]

Hey remember when the Gamecube allowed you to use your gba as an extra game screen? Sound familiar?

The success of the Wii has eliminated the casual market since they will by happy with their Wii's for quite some time......

For the 12 people out there who still haven't bought a wii I suppose this is true, but otherwise it isn't.  

It's for a far more practical reason than you might think.  

Let's put it this way:

I will eventually get a 3ds even though I'm not interested in it in the least.  Why?  Well because I get a lot of use out of my DS and eventually they will stop making games for it.  So I have the option of only playing the DS back-library or getting a 3ds.  The choice is obvious.  

This is what will happen with the Wii U.  Say your family loves the wii and they've already bought all the games they like for it?  Well you are going to have to buy the Wii U if you want any more, but don't worry all of your expensive add-on controllers will still work with it.  It's already happening actually... the flow of wii games has almost halted at this point except for some really really terrible third-party games.

You're confusing the casual market with the normal gaming market.  Grandma is not going to buy another game console because she will be happy with the one she already has.  They will not be looking to buy a new console and don't pay attention to when new consoles are released.  Nintendo was able to capture a huge market who are normally not into gaming, and it's something that won't happen again for quite a while.

No I'm not.  People seem to think the "casual" game market is so far removed from us that they are an alien species when they really aren't.  Any moron can understand that when they stop making games for your current game system and you still want to play games you will have to buy a new system, casual players included.  

[Howard_Casto]

(or, in my heart of hearts, Wind Waker 2).

Ugh, can someone drag this knucklehead out into the street and shoot him?  It'll be easier that way.

Seriously. You are probably the only person that I have ever "known" to like that game, let alone hope for a sequel. GOD I hated that tripe.  

I loved Wind Waker. It has the best art direction of the series, some of the best in all of videogame history. And it's a far better game in almost every way than Twilight Princess.

I wouldn't go that far.  It brought something fresh and new to zelda, which is a hard thing to do, but gameplay wize it had a ton of anoyances that they removed in TP.  I personally think that TP and WW are equally good, but this is from somone who thought that zelda II was a good game and the snes and n64 zeldas were utter garbage due to the poor gameplay mechanics so take that how you will.

[AtomSmasher]

Hey remember when the Gamecube allowed you to use your gba as an extra game screen? Sound familiar?

The success of the Wii has eliminated the casual market since they will by happy with their Wii's for quite some time......

For the 12 people out there who still haven't bought a wii I suppose this is true, but otherwise it isn't.  

It's for a far more practical reason than you might think.  

Let's put it this way:

I will eventually get a 3ds even though I'm not interested in it in the least.  Why?  Well because I get a lot of use out of my DS and eventually they will stop making games for it.  So I have the option of only playing the DS back-library or getting a 3ds.  The choice is obvious.  

This is what will happen with the Wii U.  Say your family loves the wii and they've already bought all the games they like for it?  Well you are going to have to buy the Wii U if you want any more, but don't worry all of your expensive add-on controllers will still work with it.  It's already happening actually... the flow of wii games has almost halted at this point except for some really really terrible third-party games.

You're confusing the casual market with the normal gaming market.  Grandma is not going to buy another game console because she will be happy with the one she already has.  They will not be looking to buy a new console and don't pay attention to when new consoles are released.  Nintendo was able to capture a huge market who are normally not into gaming, and it's something that won't happen again for quite a while.

No I'm not.  People seem to think the "casual" game market is so far removed from us that they are an alien species when they really aren't.  Any moron can understand that when they stop making games for your current game system and you still want to play games you will have to buy a new system, casual players included.  

Any moron can also understand that they are not buying new games, they are playing Wii Sports and probably one or two other games they got when they first bought the system.  Theres a reason an absurd amount of Wii consoles sold, yet most games on it have horrible sales numbers.  Most of the people who have a Wii are not buying new games, they are happy with what they have.

[Mikezilla]

(or, in my heart of hearts, Wind Waker 2).

Ugh, can someone drag this knucklehead out into the street and shoot him?  It'll be easier that way.

Seriously. You are probably the only person that I have ever "known" to like that game, let alone hope for a sequel. GOD I hated that tripe. 

I loved Wind Waker. It has the best art direction of the series, some of the best in all of videogame history. And it's a far better game in almost every way than Twilight Princess.

I have to disagree with you there. Twilight Princess was amazing. Some critics liked it even more than Ocarina Of Time. I havent played either in years, but I enjoyed TP for many reasons, the graphics, story, and gameplay were all superb. Im really excited for Skyward Sword. Cant wait, I noticed it is going to be released on a sunday. Thought that was kind of odd.

[Mikezilla]

Howard?! You didnt like the damn N64 Zeldas OR the SNES versions and you liked Zelda 2 on NES?!? Dude, youre out of your mind.  What other ones did you like?!

[DaveMMR]

Forget about the casual market - I know very few grandmother's rocking the Wii. The real money's in the younger gamers who want a new system for Christmas and the parents see that much of their Wii investment is not suddenly "worthless" with the Wii U.  Compare it to the release of the SNES. That was more of an uphill battle for Nintendo considering the system was not compatible with existing 8-bit hardware or software and stiff competition from Sega (and to a lesser extent NEC). It turned out better than alright for them.

Of course, if we still comparing the same two generations, it's safe to say maybe Wii U will not do as well as the Wii much like the SNES didn't top the NES in number of systems sold.  That's because, yes, I don't think those ultra-casuals are buying the new system. But they're also not buying new PS3s or PS4s or 360s or 720s.

By the way, a little incentive for the budget minded game consumers is that the Wii U (as of this date) only supports one touchscreen controller - which means less of an investment for multiplayer, if any at all.

[Necro]

The Wii is basically a dead system at this point with no new games in months, so Nintendo has no choice but to try to come out with another system.  They never implemented online play even halfway decently, screwed people with multiple addons that had next to no support (even the Motion Plus got next to no games for it), and just overall there was a very, VERY limited selection of non-shovelware games.

I got a Wii the first holiday season it came out - was insanely excited for it.  My last console system was a NES. 

I have zero desire for a Wii U.  I'm thinking of getting a PS3 or an Xbox360, actually, if the prices are good this season. 

[hypernova]

Of the major console releases for Zelda from the SNES onward (which I've played all), WW is easily the worst in my book.  I still own it, but can't bring myself to even consider playing it a second time, while I've played the others at least three times each.

I've been a Nintendo fan since the NES, but even I don't know if I'll get the Wii U.  I might after awhile, but unless it comes out with some great games, it won't get purchased, and it better have good online support, too.  A good strategy to get me to buy it would be a new Metroid, Zelda, Mario, and Smash Bros game all within a reasonable time frame, otherwise I'll just wait.

[shmokes]

I have to disagree with you there. Twilight Princess was amazing. Some critics liked it even more than Ocarina Of Time. I havent played either in years, but I enjoyed TP for many reasons, the graphics, story, and gameplay were all superb. Im really excited for Skyward Sword. Cant wait, I noticed it is going to be released on a sunday. Thought that was kind of odd.

Both you AND Howard mentioned gameplay in Twilight Princess as something favorable. How can this be? Did you guys play the Gamecube version or something? Does the word "waggle" mean nothing to you? The gameplay in Twilight Princess was one step forward two steps back. Sure, firing arrows was nice, but swinging your sword, which you do approximately 34897238904723890x more often, was utter crap. I was defeated by Ganon multiple times during those sequences where you have to bounce the plasma beam or whatever it is back and forth. I was beat not because my timing was bad, but because the stupid remote has such unreliable sensors. And the stupidest thing about it is that just a few moths before the game's release, at the Tokyo game show, sword swings were mapped to the A button. They changed it last second so it would feel like it was taking advantage of the Wii's capabilities (seeing as it was the flagship launch title). And they didn't even give the gamer the option to choose. Stupid.

[DaveMMR]

You bring up a good point, Shromkes. The Gamecube version is actually considered the superior version by many for that reason. (And for the nitpicky, the GC version has his sword in the left hand as he is traditionally left-handed).

[Vigo]

I'm just the guy who for some likes the original NES Zelda the best. I guess there are childhood memories linked to the game. (No pun intended.  )

Here are my zelda likes/ dislikes of the ones I played

Like:
Legend of Zelda
Link's awakening
Link to the past
Ocarina
Twilight Princess
Oracle of seasons

Dislike:
Wind Wanker
Wind Wanker
Wind Wanker
Zelda 2. This one has been straddling between dislike and undecided. This is accomplishment in beating this.
That train one. I made it maybe 2 hours without vomiting.
I'm sure there are a few more I blocked out.

Undecided:
Majora's Mask. It's either clever or annoying, but I haven't figured out which.
4 swords. I have nobody to play it with 
Parallel Worlds - That fan made Hack of Link to the Past


I think Skyward sword will be pretty damn good. I do kinda wish they would get over the "magic instrument" thing and just give link some magic spells or something. 

[Howard_Casto]

I have to disagree with you there. Twilight Princess was amazing. Some critics liked it even more than Ocarina Of Time. I havent played either in years, but I enjoyed TP for many reasons, the graphics, story, and gameplay were all superb. Im really excited for Skyward Sword. Cant wait, I noticed it is going to be released on a sunday. Thought that was kind of odd.

Both you AND Howard mentioned gameplay in Twilight Princess as something favorable. How can this be? Did you guys play the Gamecube version or something? Does the word "waggle" mean nothing to you? The gameplay in Twilight Princess was one step forward two steps back. Sure, firing arrows was nice, but swinging your sword, which you do approximately 34897238904723890x more often, was utter crap. I was defeated by Ganon multiple times during those sequences where you have to bounce the plasma beam or whatever it is back and forth. I was beat not because my timing was bad, but because the stupid remote has such unreliable sensors. And the stupidest thing about it is that just a few moths before the game's release, at the Tokyo game show, sword swings were mapped to the A button. They changed it last second so it would feel like it was taking advantage of the Wii's capabilities (seeing as it was the flagship launch title). And they didn't even give the gamer the option to choose. Stupid.

We've had this discussion a million times before schmokes.  You live in a E-M vortex where wiimotes don't seem to work.  They work fine for me.  Even if I were to dislike the "waggle" (I didn't, I felt it added to gameplay.) I would much prefer it over having to play a 12 note song every time I wanted to leave one portion of the map. 

[shmokes]

You live in a E-M vortex where wiimotes don't seem to work. 

I'll take the existence of the Motion Plus peripheral as evidence that this vortex in which I live is at least not a lonely place.

[Donkbaca]

You know what the next gen casual gaming machine is? Tablets with DLNA embedded. Allows you to play your games on your home tv and use your tablet as a controller.

[shmokes]

You can already do that with the iPad 2 if you have the TV connector peripheral. Real Racing 2 supports it.

[Mikezilla]

I have to disagree with you there. Twilight Princess was amazing. Some critics liked it even more than Ocarina Of Time. I havent played either in years, but I enjoyed TP for many reasons, the graphics, story, and gameplay were all superb. Im really excited for Skyward Sword. Cant wait, I noticed it is going to be released on a sunday. Thought that was kind of odd.

Both you AND Howard mentioned gameplay in Twilight Princess as something favorable. How can this be? Did you guys play the Gamecube version or something? Does the word "waggle" mean nothing to you? The gameplay in Twilight Princess was one step forward two steps back. Sure, firing arrows was nice, but swinging your sword, which you do approximately 34897238904723890x more often, was utter crap. I was defeated by Ganon multiple times during those sequences where you have to bounce the plasma beam or whatever it is back and forth. I was beat not because my timing was bad, but because the stupid remote has such unreliable sensors. And the stupidest thing about it is that just a few moths before the game's release, at the Tokyo game show, sword swings were mapped to the A button. They changed it last second so it would feel like it was taking advantage of the Wii's capabilities (seeing as it was the flagship launch title). And they didn't even give the gamer the option to choose. Stupid.

Ummm...actually it was the GC version.  I could see how that could be frustrating though. I didnt have a wii when TP came out. Thank god, or else it would have ruined the game for me, just like it did for you shmokes. 

[Malenko]

Zelda : Link to the Past was/is the best Zelda title.  Zelda 2 is only the worst if you dont include the CDi games

[Vigo]

I have to disagree with you there. Twilight Princess was amazing. Some critics liked it even more than Ocarina Of Time. I havent played either in years, but I enjoyed TP for many reasons, the graphics, story, and gameplay were all superb. Im really excited for Skyward Sword. Cant wait, I noticed it is going to be released on a sunday. Thought that was kind of odd.

Both you AND Howard mentioned gameplay in Twilight Princess as something favorable. How can this be? Did you guys play the Gamecube version or something? Does the word "waggle" mean nothing to you? The gameplay in Twilight Princess was one step forward two steps back. Sure, firing arrows was nice, but swinging your sword, which you do approximately 34897238904723890x more often, was utter crap. I was defeated by Ganon multiple times during those sequences where you have to bounce the plasma beam or whatever it is back and forth. I was beat not because my timing was bad, but because the stupid remote has such unreliable sensors. And the stupidest thing about it is that just a few moths before the game's release, at the Tokyo game show, sword swings were mapped to the A button. They changed it last second so it would feel like it was taking advantage of the Wii's capabilities (seeing as it was the flagship launch title). And they didn't even give the gamer the option to choose. Stupid.

Ummm...actually it was the GC version.  I could see how that could be frustrating though. I didnt have a wii when TP came out. Thank god, or else it would have ruined the game for me, just like it did for you shmokes. 

I have grown immune to the horrors of the controller waggle. By the time I got TP, I was so used to it shoved in every wii game that it didn't bother me as much.

[Blanka]

Whole Nintendo is doomed. Even worse, the whole serious game business is doomed. Wordfeud and Angry Birds killed the Video Game Star. Maybe the Buggles should come back together and make a new version of their song.

[Howard_Casto]

You live in a E-M vortex where wiimotes don't seem to work. 

I'll take the existence of the Motion Plus peripheral as evidence that this vortex in which I live is at least not a lonely place.

Not at all.  Again we have had this discussion a million times.  You expected the wiimote to be this magical 1 to 1 simulator that pooped rainbows and gave free hj's.  I on the other hand expected it to give a simple, additional layer of interactivity to games, which it did.  The motion plus (despite what nintendo says) was always planned but wasn't put in the original controllers because it would have made the console too expensive at the time.  

Translation:  Wiimotes work just fine if you accept what they are capable of and don't expect them to do anymore (ie they can detect when you've moved sharply and the approximate direction in which you moved).  You on the other hand want them to magically do more then they are capable of and because they don't, you say they "don't work".  


Getting back on topic.  At worst, the sword mechanics in TP were mildly annoying (I didn't think so, but some people did.) but the amazing accuracy and quickness of the hook shot and all the other accessories more than made up for it.  The wiimote was actually what the game had going for it that made it unique.  I've played both versions....   the GC version seems like a step backwards when you start using the hook shot and other stuff.  Kind of like the original metroid prime vs mp3.  

[shmokes]

That's nonsense. Wii Sports was the Wiimote's introduction to the world, developed by Nintendo internally with no purpose other than to show off the Wiimote's capabilities. In Wii Sports, THE game crafted around the Wiimote, the putting game in Golf is seriously hampered and the Boxing game is effectively unplayable.

Anyway, you can make your silly argument for any crappy product. Well, if you accept what it is capable of and don't expect it to do anymore [sic] . . .   That doesn't make sense. What makes a crappy product crappy is that it should be capable of more. It should do what it does better. Having low standards doesn't somehow make a product better. It just means you're easy to please.

[RTSDaddy2]

I like the Wii less now-due to lack of recent quality titles-and I was thinking about this last night.

 If all it offers is a way to play current games with a tablet controller... that is, no mega great title releases, it's dead.  Being realistic, I don't think just another Mario or DK adventure is gonna get it either. If it survives, it will be be something unexpected and unheard of that does it.

 No plans to upgrade but I will watch carefully...

[versapak]

I know this thread is over a month old at this point, but the 3DS is not a failure. No, they couldn't sell it at that ridiculous $250 price point, but it selling just fine at its current price.

I don't think the Wii U is going to sell at all like the Wii did, but I am sure it will still succeed. It still probably won't capture the core gaming market, but I know I will have one, and anyone else that loves the Marios, Zeldas and such will have one.

[Green Giant]

Things going for the Wii U:

Targeted towards younger players.
Marketed towards their parents who can afford it.
Will no doubt convert whatever stupid show kids love into a game, thus encouraging kids to demand it from parents.
It will be MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH cheaper than the new Xbox and Playstations.


It will succeed.

[Donkbaca]

Things going for the Wii U:

Targeted towards younger players.

Nope - Its targeted towards the hardcore audience of the Xbox 360/Ps3 crowd

Marketed towards their parents who can afford it.

Nope - see above

Will no doubt convert whatever stupid show kids love into a game, thus encouraging kids to demand it from parents.

What successful show has EVER been a good game? Much less a good enough game to carry console sales?

It will be MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH cheaper than the new Xbox and Playstations.

Maybe, but its not competing against those, its competing against the current generation of Xbox and PS3.  You can get an Xbox for under a hunder bucks.  You can get A PS3 for 150 AND both of those double as home media PC's, more or less.  The Wii U won't have a blu ray, nor will it connect to your other media devices or have as robust of an online system. 

I know this thread is over a month old at this point, but the 3DS is not a failure. No, they couldn't sell it at hat ridiculous $250 price point, but it selling just fine at its current price

It is a failure.  Even IF they hit the sales target, the lower price means a revenue hit of 40%.  How is making 40% less money than you expected NOT a failure?

[versapak]

It is a failure.  Even IF they hit the sales target, the lower price means a revenue hit of 40%.  How is making 40% less money than you expected NOT a failure?

Huh?

You say that as if it has been out for years and continued to fail after fail.

The 3DS has not yet even been out for a year, and though it's launch price and lack of system selling software had it start off sluggish, it is now selling pretty damn good. Lower profits than hoped, but profits all the same. A failure would be the console not in the hands of consumers, and no profits being made.

[shmokes]

I have a five year old girl and I wouldn't dream of putting my PS3 controller in her hands. But she's played the Wii lots of times. I think to predict the demise of Nintendo altogether is almost like predicting the demise of Fisher Price based on the fact that you don't personally enjoy their toys. Nintendo will be fine. Will they compete against Microsoft and Sony in the broader gaming space with the Wii U? I seriously doubt it. But the product will be successful if for no other reason than the existence of young children.  Think of every reason there is to own a PS3 or Xbox 360. If you've got kids under 12 are you really excited about them playing Mass Effect or Grand Theft Auto or God of War or Modern Warfare or Red Dead Redemption? Almost every single thing that makes the PS3 or 360 better than a Nintendo is inappropriate for children. And the Sony/MS systems are more expensive to boot. If you were a non-gamer parent buying for your 8 or 10 or 12 year old kid, be honest, which system is objectively superior?

Wii U will be at least as successful as the Gamecube was, I'd wager (and the Gamecube was profitable).

Don't get me wrong . . . I wish Nintendo would become more broad and cater to older gamers too. I have an intense nostalgia for Nintendo. I want to want to buy their systems. I want to be their loyal customer. I want them to succeed. I want them to dominate Sony and MS. But I'm getting older and as a result they're abandoning me to Sony and MS. C'est la vie.

[shmokes]

Nope - Its targeted towards the hardcore audience of the Xbox 360/Ps3 crowd

Maybe, but [the Wii U is] not competing against [the PS4 and Xbox 3], its competing against the current generation of Xbox and PS3. 

Those two sentences are hopelessly incompatible. I think you are confusing Nintendo's marketing speak with reality. The Wii U is going to release with hardware that appears to be approximately on-par with Sony's and MS's six year old systems. They are not targeting the hardcore market. Do they hope the bump will convince a few people to go ahead and buy into it? Of course. But hardcore is not the primary target of the Wii U. Any fool can see that that system will not appease the hardcore gamer's appetite. Nintendo is not being run by morons.

Also, the game based on a TV show that I assume Green Giant was making a veiled reference to is Pokemon. That game has pushed tens of millions of Nintendo consoles.

[Donkbaca]

Okay, lets say at your job you make an estimate for a job, and you are only able to collect 60% of what you estimated.  How is that NOT a failure?

Nintendo isn't in the business of spreading video game cheer.  They are in the business of making money, and the fact that someone missed the boat so badly on this is an unmitigated disaster.  Nintendo LOST money earlier this year and slashed the price of the 3DS  in a panic move.  

I like how you folks act like money doesn't matter. It matters BIG time.  I can't think of a single business where losing 40% of your revenue due to a miscalculation would be viewed as anything but a failure. According to Forbes magazine, the company is posting a $264 million loss this year.  The first time it has EVER posted a loss.  This is mostly due to them whiffing on the 3DS so badly.  How is losing $264 million NOT a failure?

Looks like the Wii U is headed for a similar disaster: from
 

Nintendo of America president Reggie Fils-Aime alluded to Time what type of crowd the company expects to draw with the Wii U, at least at launch.

"The consumer buying Wii hardware today is going to be a different consumer than the one who will be buying Wii U in the future," Fils-Aime told Time. "This is the first holiday that the Wii is available at $149.99 or below, so its an expanded demographic we're reaching. These are consumers who have heard about Wii for the past couple years, but at $199 or $249 it was economically out of their reach."

Based on earlier comments made by Nintendo president Satoru Iwata and now these words, it would be fair to guess that the Wii U is going to cost more than $250 in the US at launch. That figure was the launch price for the original Wii way back in 2006, and still that was cheaper than both Microsoft's Xbox 360 and Sony's PlayStation 3 at launch. Nintendo's bread and butter has been the casual audience, which one could argue includes those that wouldn't exactly leap at a $300 or $400 video game box.

Fils-Aime went on the reiterate that the Wii and Wii U will coexist for some (as he told us recently), but said, "you can definitely expect that pricing is going to be different and that the games are going to be different." In this case, "different" sounds like "more expensive" to us, and we can't help but wonder whether Nintendo's most lucrative audience will bite.

 

EB Games in AU started taking pre-orders of the WiiU for 600 bucks.  So we can realistically expect this thing to be 2-3 times the cost of an xbox 360 or PS3.  Its going to sink like a rock

[Donkbaca]

Those two sentences are hopelessly incompatible. I think you are confusing Nintendo's marketing speak with reality. The Wii U is going to release with hardware that appears to be approximately on-par with Sony's and MS's six year old systems. They are not targeting the hardcore market. Do they hope the bump will convince a few people to go ahead and buy into it? Of course. But hardcore is not the primary target of the Wii U. Any fool can see that that system will not appease the hardcore gamer's appetite. Nintendo is not being run by morons.

Okay the, what IS the audience?  Are you saying they are competing for casual gamers?  Then, aren't they competing against the wii?  Its pretty clear to me their market is people who play the PS3 and Xbox 360, and they plan on winning that crowd over with a gimmick controlller and a console that doesn't even play dvd's
  

I think they are being run by morons:

"We have repeatedly investigated whether social games, as well as smartphones, are actually affecting our business. We got the same results in our latest research that there are no causal correlations," Iwata said at the briefing for first quarter financial results in Jul. 2011.

According to research from Parks Associates, casual gamers have grown from 56 million in 2008 to 135 million in 2011 - a majority of those gamers choosing to play on their mobile devices.

"Most of this growth is due to increases in the casual gamer segments, with tablets and smartphones usurping PlayStation, Wii, and Xbox as popular gaming devices," Parks Associates research analyst Pietro Macchiarella told MSNBC. "These changes have significant implications for the gaming industry. This new majority of casual gamers is looking for games with low investments required in terms of dollars and time necessary to learn the game."

Anyone who knows ANYTHING about gaming will tell you that the iphone/ipad/android market and the facebook games are all eating into the casual game market.  Grandma used to play wii bowling, now she plays Farmville, yet Nintendo REFUSES to admit this.

That leads us to wonder if there has been anything in the works at Nintendo to change the Wii U, since it got a shockingly negative reception at E3. When the new console was unveiled, the company's stock price actually dropped, a phenomenon that is almost unheard of among the major game console companies.

In response, Nintendo president Satoru Iwata admitted there was "some misunderstanding" since the Wii U unveiling did not include any reference to the console itself - the device that users will plug into their TVs. In an interview at the time, Iwata said, "I should have shown a single picture of the new console, then started talking about the controller."

Right, because if people saw a picture of the console first, then everything would have been roses.

[shmokes]

Okay the, what IS the audience?  Are you saying they are competing for casual gamers?  Then, aren't they competing against the wii?  Its pretty clear to me their market is people who play the PS3 and Xbox 360, and they plan on winning that crowd over with a gimmick controlller and a console that doesn't even play dvd's

Of course they're competing with the Wii. They mean for this product to eventually replace the Wii altogether. This is just the console cycle that has existed since the original Nintendo. The Super NES coexisted with the NES for a time, cannibalizing NES sales, till eventually the NES went off the market. The N64 did the same thing. The Gamecube did the same. The Wii did the same. You'll see no difference with the Playstation line. In fact, you can still by a new PS2.

Hell you said yourself that

[The Wii U is] not competing against [PS4 and Xbox 3], its competing against the current generation of Xbox and PS3. 

Does that sound to you like a system targeting hardcore gamers? One that is competing against the previous gen systems of its two market rivals? Have you gone mad? In what world is that hardcore?

[shmokes]

Okay, lets say at your job you make an estimate for a job, and you are only able to collect 60% of what you estimated.  How is that NOT a failure?

It's just not black-and-white. There's failing to make as much money as you thought you would make. And then there's losing money. Both can be characterized as failures, I suppose. But they're not the same thing.

As for the 3DS being a failure as a whole, it's just silly to make that claim right now. As has already been mentioned, the system's been out less than a year. Both MS and Sony lost huge sums of money when their new systems launched. Lost hundreds of millions of dollars. Hell, Sony was taking like a $500 hit for every system sold. So simply selling 5 million systems put a -$500 million mark on their books. But I don't think you'd say today that the 360 and PS3 were failures. These systems generate revenue from sales and royalties for many years. Nintendo may not be making as much profit on selling hardware on the 3DS as they'd have liked to, but if it's selling well now and it develops a good market base Nintendo will be reaping royalties for every piece of software sold for years to come.

That's how 60% of expectations up front is not (or might not be, anyway) a failure.

[Howard_Casto]

I would like to point out that the 3ds has sold better in 8 months in both the US and Japan than the DS did it's first year.  The DS was also deemed a "failure" went through various price cuts before becoming the best selling handheld in history.  If anything, the 3DS is looking to be more successful than the ds... at least thus far.  I wouldn't dare make that prediciton this early on, it's too soon to tell, but judging by the number thus-far.....


And for the love of all that is good in the world Donkbaca, PLEASE stop comparing the smart phone/tablet market to the handheld market. 

You know what the difference is?  A typical smart phone game costs around $1.  A typical handheld game costs 20-30 dollars.  So the typical user can buy 19 smart phone games and a single handheld game in a sales period and the handheld company STILL makes more money.  That is why there isn't a direct correlation. 

You keep complaining about the 3ds and how they are getting it out there for less money, but guess what?  They are getting it out there, so nintendo gets a little money for each sold and more importantly, they get a handheld in the hands of a consumer.  The consumer is going to buy at least one game, so there is some profit right there.  As opposed to the smart phone market, where there are dozens of manufacturers, all running a free-linux, based os, and selling games on the android market that have absolutely no relation to the manufacturer of the tablet/phone. So the hardware manufacturer gets the profit from the device and that is it, and the game producers get a buck directly from the consumer while Nintendo makes roughly 30-50 bucks on the handheld, 15-20 bucks on any first party game,  5 bucks on any third party game, and money from the multitude of nintendo brand accessories. 

Yeah the smart phone industry is really killing the handheld market.   

[Donkbaca]

I would like to point out that the 3ds has sold better in 8 months in both the US and Japan than the DS did it's first year.

Everyone keeps saying this.  So what.  They weren't hoping to match the first DS sales, the first DS was a failure, it wasn't until the DS Lite came out that the thing took off.  It selling more than the DS does mean its not a failure, Nintendo is losing 200 million bucks this year, the first it has lost money in the 30 years they have been releasing financial data, and that is mostly because of the abysmal performance of the DS.  Plus, what did the DS have to compete against?  The 3DS is competing against smart phones you can get for free.

I'll dare make the prediction - it will be forgotten by next christmas

You know what the difference is?  A typical smart phone game costs around $1.  A typical handheld game costs 20-30 dollars.  So the typical user can buy 19 smart phone games and a single handheld game in a sales period and the handheld company STILL makes more money.  That is why there isn't a direct correlation. 

Right, a typical smartphone game is under 5 bucks, so I can spend 150 bucks on a dedicated gaming device and spend 40 bucks on ONE game to play on it, or I can use my free smartphone and play angry birds for a buck.  Its obvious that there is competition because they are substitute goods.

For the record, Nintendo is NOT making any money on 3DS right now:

Iwata confirmed the news, saying that "before the mass-production effect can take place for the hardware, [the price drop] will naturally generate red ink on the hardware sales."

Which is fine, if they were going the SONY route to get in at a price comfortable to consumers, then for the device to gain traction and become profitable later on in its product cycle when the cost of components goes down.  But this was NOT a strategy Nintendo had.  Its a reaction to an extreme lack of demand.  Its more of a "---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- we have all these 3DS's laying around, lets cut our loses" sort of deal.

[Vigo]

There is the bit about demographics though. How many smart phone users are 13 and under? Almost Nil. The families that give their little kids smart phones also end up getting their kids a go-kart, a Pony and a new BMW on on their 16th birthday. They also get their kid a 3DS. Little kids are by far the major demographic, and they are the ones who don't have the option to play on a smartphone all day.

Not saying that things won't change, especially with tablets quickly on the rise, apple marketing to little kids, and the trend to give children phones at younger and younger ages. For the time being, I think Nintendo still will corner the handheld market. Right now, I think Sony will have a harder time hawking their system to the crowd that uses smart phones that donk is talking about.

And with that, the first figures on the Vita release in Japan over the weekend are looking sad. While solid figures are not exactly there yet, it looks like it is failing in numbers compared even to the 3DS. We will see for sure later.

[Donkbaca]

I completely disagree with you

Nintendo's handheld games are casual games, the same types of games people play on their phone

I think Sony will have LESS of a problem, because they aren't marketing to the social gamers that play smartphone games, they are marketing to the dude that plays Uncharted 3 start to finish and takes the day off of work when Skyrim drops.   

The Vita sold twice as many units s the PSP did at launch and was BARELY behind the 3DS, which targeted a much broader market. 

In any case, you can't follow Japanese sales numbers.  Those guys play some weird ass ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- over there.

[Vigo]

Well, you are right the Vita sales numbers don't mean anything yet. We will eventually see.

I do tend to think that handheld systems appeal to more semi-casual gamers, simply because the serious gamers stick with consoles.

Now that the 3DS is in the right price range, it has been reported as the #1 Christmas device by demand, but I we won't know if the system will take hold unless we see a spike in games sales in the upcoming months. People could just be jumping on it as a gift because they are clueless as to what to get little Timmy for Christmas, and the 3DS has become affordable.

[DaveMMR]

I'll dare make the prediction - it will be forgotten by next christmas

Are you really sure you want to make that prediction?  Nintendo does not pull punches when marketing their hardware. Your statement proving true might be a longer shot than most state lotteries.

You don't have to like Nintendo - no one's asking you to.  But look at with unbiased eyes. Their history has been fairly consistent.  Even when they weren't the top dog, they still managed to do just fine. Their one major failure, the Virtual Boy, was their only major failure out of ELEVEN North American hardware releases. And it was not marketed as a replacement for the home console or handheld market, so it was not as catastrophic, long term.

Nintendo is losing 200 million bucks this year, the first it has lost money in the 30 years they have been releasing financial data, and that is mostly because of the abysmal performance of the DS.  Plus, what did the DS have to compete against?  The 3DS is competing against smart phones you can get for free.

What did the DS have to compete against?  Umm.. the PSP. The system all analysts and gaming journalists predicted will be a runaway hit, burying the DS. Guess which system not only prevailed but actually became the best selling handheld of all time (2nd best console overall behind the PS2)? 

And I think it's funny you bring up Nintendo's loss (for the first time IN THIRTY YEARS - yes that includes the year of the aforementioned Virtual Boy and even when they were dead last in the console race) as proof positive they're going to fail but never mentioned that Sony and Microsoft have CONSISTENTLY posted loses of tons more money from their consoles. Heck, the profits from the PS2 - again, best selling system of all time - have all been exhausted on marketing and selling the PS3.  Being in the console business is very expensive but only Nintendo knows how to work this industry for profit.

Personally, after the glorious reviews of Mario Kart 7 (some are calling it one of the best Mario Karts), I may have to buy a couple of 3DS's for myself now....

[Donkbaca]

I am looking at it with unbiased eyes. Nintendo lost 200 million bucks last year because they missed the boat on the 3DS and they are losing money on each unit sold.  They are hoping that by March, they will be able to turn a SMALL profit on the 3DS IF component costs go down.  On top of that they are launching a new system.  Unless they start making money on this thing, why on earth would they continue to support it?

So why did the PSP lose to the DS?  It was pricier, and the games more or less suck on it.  Smartphones are free, games are a buck.  You are saying this is the same scenario?  Why did the DS beat the PSP?  Why do you think the 3DS will survive in the light of smartphones competing based on that experience?  Please explain.

And I think it's funny you bring up Nintendo's loss (for the first time IN THIRTY YEARS - yes that includes the year of the aforementioned Virtual Boy and even when they were dead last in the console race) as proof positive they're going to fail but never mentioned that Sony and Microsoft have CONSISTENTLY posted loses of tons more money from their consoles

That's because the latter two are completely different companies.  Sony lost money on its consoles as a strategy to get market penetration, they figured they would make money on the hardware later on in the life cycle of the units as production prices went down and they achieved economies of scale.  Sony decided to lose money on the PS3 so that they could push Blu Ray and bury HD DVD as the premier media format.  On top of all that, Sony isn't a game company, they can afford to lose money short term to achieve long term objectives - ditto for MS.  Nintendo does NOT have that luxury, its a game company, all it makes is games and consoles, if its not making money from games and consoles, it goes out of business.

On top of that, how is the company going to turn around next year?  The wii is dead in the water, I don't see it roaring back to life as a console.  Do you really think people are going to spend 400+ bucks on a WiiU?  It doesn't even play DVD's.  Have you seen the ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- the Xbox can do now?  I am going to watch UFC 141 for FREE on XBOX live.  What compelling reason is Nintendo going to give me to buy the wiiu?  For 200 bucks you can get an xbox 360 with a connect.

Its not about the past, its about the future.  Nintendo has NO cache.  Think about all the great games that people were looking forward to this fall - Skyrim, Saints Row III, Call of Duty, Battlefield, Forza, Uncharted 3.  NONE of them are playable on Nintendo hardware.  The only game that has any buzz is Skyward Sword.  Mario Kart 7 and the 3d Mario finally have given people a reason to get a 3DS, but what is coming out next year that is going to make me think the next year won't be any different than this year?

[lilshawn]

I'd have to say that nintendo is more interested in inventing the next big gimmick. They are looking to be different.

if you people want to buy something different, with some kind of crazy gimmick, get a wii u.

if you people want the same system only faster, buy the other ones.

wanna make a game system???

Me idea Number 1... jam the Wii U into controller only and sell it as a portable system. haven't you all noticed the portable systems sold by sony and nintendo are basically 2-3 generations behind in terms of performance/quality. (DS is basically a portable N64 (in fact porting several of the games)) having a current gen performance/quality in a portable system would be awesome.

Me idea Number 2... this whole not being able to do this or that has to stop. everybody streams content now a days. let's build on that. these game manufacturers make it so damn hard to get my crap from the computer to the TV. that and a DVD licence costs eff all, hell i can buy a DVD player NIB for $9, can we make this $200 or $300 machine which takes disks read the damn things now?

Me idea number3... 

Me idea number 4... Profit

[shmokes]

Why do you think the 3DS will survive in the light of smartphones competing based on that experience?  Please explain.

We are talking about two TOTALLY different demographics. The fact that YOU have a free smartphone doesn't make YOUR KID want a DS any less. I have never in my entire life known someone under fifteen years old who owns a smartphone. I'm sure there are some fourteen and even thirteen year olds who have them. But not your average thirteen year old. It just IS NOT THE CASE. Smartphones may be free, but the 2-year contracts that make them "free" are not free. Kids don't have smartphones. They have DSes.

[versapak]

Why do you think the 3DS will survive in the light of smartphones competing based on that experience?  Please explain.

We are talking about two TOTALLY different demographics. The fact that YOU have a free smartphone doesn't make YOUR KID want a DS any less. I have never in my entire life known someone under fifteen years old who owns a smartphone. I'm sure there are some fourteen and even thirteen year olds who have them. But not your average thirteen year old. It just IS NOT THE CASE. Smartphones may be free, but the 2-year contracts that make them "free" are not free. Kids don't have smartphones. They have DSes.

My 13yo daughter is getting an iPhone for Christmas, but it is a 3GS that we got for a good deal from my neighbors brother. She would have no interest in owning a 3DS though. That would be my other daughter who is indeed getting one of those for Christmas.

[shmokes]

My five-year-old daughter has her own cellphone.    It's not a smartphone, but I think it almost inconceivable that she won't have a smartphone by the time she's thirteen.

Nevertheless, she doesn't represent the norm. The norm right now is that probably less than 20% of DS owners have smartphones.

[shmokes]

No, not really.

[yotsuya]

Santa's bringing my daughter a 3DS as well.

[Howard_Casto]

What about an Ipod Touch or the multitude of Android devices?  Do kids get those?

You guys missed my point.  Childern and gamers in particular will want a handheld console first and a smartphone/ect second or not at all. 

There are definately kids/gamers that will want a smartphone for other uses and buy games for it because it happens to play games, but that doesn't interfere with their gaming expendature because these are titles they wouldn't have normally bought.  This isn't knocking one device over another, it's just the type of person who would buy a smartphone as their primary gamign device probably would have never been "hardcore" enough to buy a 3ds or any handheld in the first place.

To use an example that knocks nintendo directly, buying a smartphone soley for gaming is like buying a wii soley for first person shooters. 

Also Donkbaca I think youa re getting your facts mixed up and it's no wonder considering the way websites/the news jumps all over Nintendo  whenver they aren't printing money. 

They haven't lost 200 million they have lost 200 million in potential earnings.  In other words, they lost magical unicorn vapor.    Nintendo will still end the year with a profit, it just isn't as large a profit as they promised their shareholders. 

To set the record straight, I believe they did lose 200 million.... on the 3ds only.... for the first quarter.  Reporters seem to be confusing this earlier 200mil loss with the 200mill potential earnings loss.  This is indeed a major hit in their wallet, but overall, the company will make a profit.  Gaming aside, they make a buttload just on the pokemon franchise, which is so big that it is handled by 3 or 4 seperate umbrella corporations. 

Just for the record though, Nintendo's financial year really ends in March, so NOBODY knows for sure if they will make a profit or not for this year, at least not until sometime in late feb.

[DaveMMR]

Regarding smart phone gaming: You're forgetting that Nintendo's stable of franchises are HUGE; none of them are being released on smart phones.

And as someone who owns/owned an iPhone, Droid and dedicated handheld systems (e.g. DS); I can say straight gaming is much better on the handhelds. Gamers doing their gaming on strictly on phones may feel a little shorted.

[Green Giant]

Things going for the Wii U:

Targeted towards younger players.

Nope - Its targeted towards the hardcore audience of the Xbox 360/Ps3 crowd

Marketed towards their parents who can afford it.

Nope - see above

When I say younger players, I mean non-extreme violence games.  Wholesome games that wouldn't give your grandpa flashbacks to the war.

They can still be extreme and addicting while also remaining kid friendly.  I think Mario is targeted to the kid in all of us while Modern Warfare 3 is targeted to the mercenary assassin in all of us.



And I think it will be targeted towards parents who unlike yourself are not video game savvy.  They will go up to Best Buy, look at the new $600 xbox or the new $700 playstation and then spot the hip new Wii U for $300ish.  Some salesman will give them a spiel about the interface and ability to play their existing Wii games.




I don't see how it could be better targeted to kids and their parents.  Thus it WILL succeed.

[Green Giant]

Its not about the past, its about the future.  Nintendo has NO cache.  Think about all the great games that people were looking forward to this fall - Skyrim, Saints Row III, Call of Duty, Battlefield, Forza, Uncharted 3.  NONE of them are playable on Nintendo hardware.  The only game that has any buzz is Skyward Sword.  Mario Kart 7 and the 3d Mario finally have given people a reason to get a 3DS, but what is coming out next year that is going to make me think the next year won't be any different than this year?

If I had an 8 year old I don't think I would want him playing any of those games.....well maybe forza is ok.  Hell xbox live in general is very kid UNfriendly.  So much smack talking.

[Mikezilla]

Whoa whoa WHOA. Everyone shut up.

Donk, did you say you are going to get UFC 141 for free?!?  How?!?! Please dont tell me its some hacked thing or something...

[Donkbaca]

They haven't lost 200 million they have lost 200 million in potential earnings.  In other words, they lost magical unicorn vapor.    Nintendo will still end the year with a profit, it just isn't as large a profit as they promised their shareholders.

 

it grates on me when people say I don't have facts straight when they present no facts to the contrary:  http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/pdf/2011/111027e_2.pdf

Latest nintendo forecast.  Says forecasted loss is 20,000 million yen.  That is 256 million dollars.  I presume you would consider this a fact. a loss of 256 million dollars is not a profit.  You are wrong.  Get your facts straight.


Here is what kills Nintendo: The lack of good 3d party support.  They only games worth playing are largely home grown games and you are LUCKY if you get 2 of those a year.  

To me this seems an AWFUL lot like Sega - rested on their laurels after the genesis, came out with systems that lagged behind their competitors.  Released a "next gen" system in the dreamcast that was barely better than the current generation and then got crushed by the next gen.

Here is why the 3DS matters so much for Nintendo.  Its pretty much their bread and butter. Here is another fact: Nintendo's share of the mobile gaming pie is shrinking and games on other mobile devices are eating into their market share:http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/11/30/nintendo-3ds-sales/

So what?  Its just market share, right? So what if the pie piece is shrinking as long as the pie is growing?  Well that's the thing, if you look at the numbers, the pie piece for nintendo is shrinking much faster than the whole pie is growing.

The analysis that there is still room for a portable system is bunk.  Why would you pay for a device that JUST does games and carry around another device, when for ostensibly the same price you can get an ipod touch which will play games and do so much more?

We are all entitled to our opinion, mine is that the writing is on the wall. Hand held gaming is going to go the way of hand held cameras.  Sure there are some people that would prefer a dedicated device, but most of us would rather just snap away on our smartphones.

[Donkbaca]

Donk, did you say you are going to get UFC 141 for free?!?   How?!?! Please dont tell me its some hacked thing or something...

Yup, download the UFC app and you get to watch the whole PPV for free.  Put that in your pipe and smoke it Nintendo.  If you want to build a business catering to the whims of 8 year olds and bank on their ability to convince their parents to drop 200 bucks so they can play Nintendogs, well then, best of luck to you.

[Mikezilla]

Donk, did you say you are going to get UFC 141 for free?!?   How?!?! Please dont tell me its some hacked thing or something...

Yup, download the UFC app and you get to watch the whole PPV for free.  Put that in your pipe and smoke it Nintendo.  If you want to build a business catering to the whims of 8 year olds and bank on their ability to convince their parents to drop 200 bucks so they can play Nintendogs, well then, best of luck to you.

Does the UFC app cost anything? Are you sure?! Thats nuts! I was torn to buy it, because I want to just see alistair beat the crap out of brock, but the rest of the card sucks. Holy ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---. Now I just need to get the xbox back from my stupid GF's house! 

[Donkbaca]

no, its free.  UFC trying to promote the app so they can use it as a platform for digital distribution in the future.

[shmokes]

If you want to build a business catering to the whims of 8 year olds and bank on their ability to convince their parents to drop 200 bucks so they can play Nintendogs, well then, best of luck to you.

Yeah . . . cos the 8 year olds of the world have never been able to get their parents to do anything like THAT before.   

I see where you're going Donkbaca. And there's plenty of truth to it. Mobile phones and tablets will eat into Nintendo's profits. But it ain't here yet--not nearly to the degree you're suggesting. 8-year-olds don't want to watch UFC. They don't want an iPod touch. They want a DS. Their parents want to get them what they want. And the 8 year old will have no more trouble convincing their parents to drop 200 bucks on a 3DS than they had getting them to drop that on the DS.

But as for this generation, Nintendo will not lose money on the 3DS. That's asinine. This year they're paying for major R&D and tooling to manufacture the 3DS. They never have to pay for that again. And component prices do drop. They drop quickly. Nintendo may have some bumpy roads ahead of them, but as a company they're still very healthy and will be for some time. Hell . . . just a couple years ago they were the most valuable company in all of Japan. More valuable than Sony, Toyota, Canon, Honda, Mitsubishi, Panasonic, etc. I don't know where they stand today, but it's not far off that mark.

[Mikezilla]

no, its free.  UFC trying to promote the app so they can use it as a platform for digital distribution in the future.

Its only for 25,000 fans, I wish you would have told me sooner! They are sold the ---fudgesicle--- out.