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Author Topic: Nanao MS2930 settings  (Read 3826 times)

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senorchris

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Nanao MS2930 settings
« on: October 23, 2011, 02:42:59 am »
Hi Calamity,

First up - thank you hugely for producing such an excellent version of MAME!  I'm running groovymame64_0143u7.013d on XP x64, using your crt emudriver 9.3 on a Radeon 4850.  I've got it hooked up to my Sega Blast City cab, which has the Nanao MS2930 monitor in it.

I'm using the monitor_specs listed in this thread: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=114574.0.  The MS2930 and MS2931 are (from what I can gather) very similar, just the 2931 is the digital auto-sync version.

Most of the games I've tried work great - Double Dragon, Popeye, all the Capcom games, Neo-Geo games, etc. - except the mid-90s Midway games, for some reason.  The two I've attached logs for below are NBA Jam and Mortal Kombat 2 - both 400x256 games that Groovymame seems to settle on using 256x240 to render at.  This makes most of the text unreadable, and gives the games a blocky, low resolution look.

Do you have any ideas?  Thank you so much for all your hard work - it really is hugely appreciated!
« Last Edit: October 25, 2011, 01:27:26 pm by Calamity »

Calamity

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Re: Games with ISSUES: report here!
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2011, 04:42:56 am »
Hi senorchris,

I think I know what's happening. If you look at your logs, there's no 1234x256 magic resolution, that's the one that should be used to create 400x256 one. This can be due to two different reasons:

- You didn't use the same monitor_specs in vmmaker.ini for producing the modelines (unlikely).

- Windows is hiding that video mode because it's decided it's not suitable for your monitor (likely).

Check if 1234x256 is present in your system using Arcade_OSD. If that is the case, then the answer is the second one.

You'll need to switch to ddraw to be able to use that mode. Unfortunately d3d won't work with hidden modes whatever you do. I specifically changed the way the video modes are listed from the system when using ddraw to also report hidden modes thinking of that issue. The problem is that magic resolutions don't work right with ddraw in some systems (still need to find the reason), that's why I'm recommending d3d as a general rule, although I'm aware of that other problem. Then if ddraw works right for you, don't hesitate to use it.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

senorchris

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Re: Games with ISSUES: report here!
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2011, 12:27:09 pm »
Hi Calamity,

Thank you so much for the quick response!  Your support in this forum really is second to none - s'awfully nice of you.  :)

Your assumption is correct - Windows is hiding the mode (see attached Arcade_OSD snap).  Unfortunately, I switched to ddraw (which seems to work perfectly fine) and it's still choosing to render at 256x240 (see mk2-ddraw.txt).  Any ideas on where I should go from here would be greatly appreciated!

I've also included my vmmaker.ini (apologies for not including it last time), in case that can throw any light.

Thank you!

Calamity

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Re: Games with ISSUES: report here!
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2011, 02:39:16 pm »
Oh, I see... now I remember I had removed the lines that unlock the hidden modes for ddraw (basically they query video modes with the RAWMODE flag), that's why they are not listed either. I was planning to add it as an option, for security reasons. Anyway I've recompiled the 64-bit binary enabling that, just download the new groovymame64_0143u7.013d.rar file and try with this one.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

senorchris

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Re: Games with ISSUES: report here!
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2011, 03:35:58 pm »
Thank you very much for the quick response (again)!  It's much appreciated.  Unfortunately, it's still resorting to 256x240 - please see the attached mk2-ddraw2.txt.

I can't see any reference to the 1234x256 magic resolution in the log - is it possible I have to do something else to force groovymame to see it?

If there's anything at all I can do to help debug, please let me know - I'm more than happy to try anything.  Thank you!

Calamity

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Re: Games with ISSUES: report here!
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2011, 04:14:19 pm »
Ah I think I got it, the issue is with those monitor specs.

Recalculate the modelines changing this value:

monitor_specs_0 = "15450.00-16050.00, 54-65, 3.19, 4.75, 6.45, 0.826, 0.191, 1.462, 0, 0, 288, 448"

After that the 1234x256 resolution should exist in your system. That's the lower value for vfreq. If you know your monitor can actually handle lower values try lowering that one even more (50 Hz could be the lowest). That way you'll also get 288-line resolutions. Raising hfreqmax value (16050) a bit may help too, but just do it if you know it's safe (you can use Arcade_OSD to find your limits).
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

senorchris

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Re: Games with ISSUES: report here!
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2011, 06:43:29 pm »
Awesome, thank you - that works perfectly!  First I reduced the min vfreq, and mk2 almost ran perfectly (locked on 99% framerate, with a stutter every now and then) - I then tried increasing the max hfreq (bit by bit in Arcade OSD, like you suggested), and stopped at 16335.  This made mk2 run perfectly - locked on 100%, no stuttering at all!  Thank you for your advice!

I'm starting to understand the verbose debugging text more and more, and have been looking at some of the games that are double-ressing.  e.g. Pitfighter (attached) - did it really originally sync at 16.891 hfreq, or am I reading it wrong?  If so, is it common for 15Khz monitors to be able to sync at that speed?  If it push my hfreq max up towards that number in Arcade OSD, as long as I do it bit by bit (and stop as soon as it goes out of sync), is damage extremely unlikely?  I'd really like to run as many 15Khz games at their native res if possible (especially as with this chassis, I have to pop open the control panel and change the sync frequency manually every time).

I completely understand you can't guarantee no damage, I'm just after a best guess.  :)

Thank you again!

Calamity

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Re: Games with ISSUES: report here!
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2011, 07:10:16 pm »
I didn't notice before, but actually that vertical backporch value seems too high:

monitor_specs_0 = "15450.00-16050.00, 54-65, 3.19, 4.75, 6.45, 0.826, 0.191, 1.462, 0, 0, 288, 448"

1.462 equals 23 lines (too many I think). I'd use a value slightly above 1.000. Again, you can use Arcade_OSD to find the value that's good enough, you'll notice it's too low when top of the screen starts getting distorted.

That's probably why you're getting such high horizontal frequencies for those otherwise usual modes. Using lower vertical porches allows for creating the same resolution+refresh at a lower hfreq.

Tomorrow I'll post some links about how you can potentially damage your monitor by 'overclocking' it. Always take care!

Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

senorchris

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Re: Games with ISSUES: report here!
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2011, 02:19:17 pm »
Awesome - thank you!  Taking the back porch down to 1.164 and the vfreq min down to 50Hz has enabled a couple more modelines in VMMaker - it'll do all the way up to 288 lines, now (which has pushed a couple of vertical games down into the 15Khz mode).

Pitfighter is still double-ressing, though - it's asking for a horizontal sync of ~16.8Khz.  The spec sheet on my monitor states a hfreq at 15Khz of 15.75Khz +/- 300Mhz.  Using VMMaker, I've pushed it to 16.3Khz (as previously mentioned), and it seems fine - I'm just a bit nervous about continuing to push it higher, especially considering I'm well outside its specs.  Think I should leave Pitfighter alone, or are there other settings I could play with to get it viewable at a lower hfreq?

As ever - thank you for your help!  You've been invaluable - I've learnt more about CRT technology in the last week than I ever thought I would.  :)
« Last Edit: October 24, 2011, 03:21:15 pm by senorchris »

Calamity

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Re: Games with ISSUES: report here!
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2011, 03:06:07 pm »
I see now that your vertical front porch is abnormally high, it shouldn't need to be higher than your sync pulse actually:

monitor_specs0            15450.00-16050.00,55-65,3.19,4.75,6.45,0.191,0.191,1.164,0,0,288,448

With that change you'll get pitfight inside your native ranges without forcing it.

Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

senorchris

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Re: Games with ISSUES: report here!
« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2011, 12:50:24 pm »
Perfect - you're the man, Calamity!  Absolutely everything I've tried is synching brilliantly at 15Khz.

Gracias por todo!

Calamity

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Re: Games with ISSUES: report here!
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2011, 01:26:01 pm »
Great!

I think I'll move this topic to a new thread with a reference to "Nanao MS2930", so anyone with this monitor can find it and use your settings.

Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi