EMS Top Gun 3 Released - !!!!!Updated!!!!!

[lodoss118]

Just got this today, it seems like you have stand a bit (1 1/2 arms length) back, but probably same as aimtraks. It takes 4 batteries and the build quality is ok.
I haven't tried any games yet will do a more rigid test on saturday. I think the same problems occur like the wide lens issue but just need stand
abit back then its ok. I think for an arcade monitor because the area size is like a square, the distance is the same for the ir configuration.

[Nephasth]

Link?

[lodoss118]

link to manual:

http://www.hkems.com/files/1108/TopGun_III_eng.pdf

i wished they used the rf gun shell rather than keeping the old one?

some highlights:
pc,ps2/3,xbox support
wireless
recoil
laser?

comes with 4 led boxes similar to guncon 3?

[Nephasth]

Wow. Wireless and recoil for $51/gun. Who's going to try it out first?

Target Box looks interesting too. Just don't shoot your TV with your air rifle...

[lodoss118]

targetbox seems abit strange though i mean youw ould rather have that thing inside the gun lol.
topgun 3 is appealing but lets see what other people think?

[Nephasth]

targetbox seems abit strange though i mean youw ould rather have that thing inside the gun lol.

It's interesting due to the fact you don't have to sacrifice the functionality of the air rifle, you can go from shooting up MAME to shooting up the neighborhood cats.

[DCsegaDH]

Looks interesting! I wonder if you have to stand far away from the screen like the older ones?

[lodoss118]

i suppose that is the question

[Nephasth]

Looks interesting! I wonder if you have to stand far away from the screen like the older ones?

8.1.2 The distance between the gun and the screen should be around 2 to 3 times of the distance D (shown below).

Depends on how you set up the IR LEDs. (Couldn't copy and paste the diagram)

[DCsegaDH]

Looks interesting! I wonder if you have to stand far away from the screen like the older ones?

8.1.2 The distance between the gun and the screen should be around 2 to 3 times of the distance D (shown below).

Depends on how you set up the IR LEDs. (Couldn't copy and paste the diagram)

Got it, I couldn't get the link working before. I might try this for my next project

[Nephasth]

Manual also states that only one set of IR LEDs is required for two guns playing on the same screen (something that is expected). But I'm wondering if I could also read that as two guns can be used on two screens for the same game if each screen has its own set of IR LEDs. I've thought about guns on the Two-Headed beast, but I'm not 100% sure how it would work out on the dual screens (never seen an example of it before).

[lodoss118]

i wished they used another shell though i though the rf was ok

[SammyWI]

Interesting.  Even though I've recently modded a couple of airsoft guns with Aimtraks.     I wonder if the recoil function is just a vibration motor or is it a 'slide recoil'.  Also like the wireless aspect of it.  I'd find a way to cram batteries in my Aimtraks if that was an option.

[TheSlim]

Wireless and recoil look awesome.  But with all the calibration problems I had on tg2 I am going to stay away.  Unless there are rave reviews..  also what's xp64 support?  I had to tweak the tg2 xp64 driver to get it to work

[Nephasth]

Inquired about dual screen functionality and got this response.

Dear Nephasth,
 
Thank you for your email.
 
EMS TopGun III has two channels. Two EMS TopGun III could be connected to the same console. (PS2/PS3/XBOX/PC).
 
If you are using two TopGun with the same game and same screen, you only need to mount one set of IR LEDs on the screen.
 
If you are using two TopGun with two separate screens, you need to mount one set of IR LEDs for each screen. Further more, any IR sources (include another set of IR LEDs) are interrupt sources. That means, there should be only ONE screen in the sight of TopGun III, or it would got interrupted.
 
By the way, would you please tell us which game are you talking about ? It could output to two screens for two players (co-operation) gameplay ? We are interested in this.
 
Thanks.
 
Regards,
Henry
EMS Production Ltd.
www.hkems.com

[Martijn]

Did you ask about the recoil  ?

[Shoegazer]

Looks great.  Would of course prefer the Ultimarc Aimtrak (EMS driver support is notoriously bad for one thing) but Aimtrak recoil is apparently still a ways away so we may end up going this route instead.

[shateredsoul1979]

So far the only difference seems to be that it's wireless.

I really liked the build of the ems topgun II, feels really sturdy and heavy, and it was slide recoil. Seriously though, they made this look even more like a real gun.

The sensors also look the same, and are required to be in the same position. I'm skeptical, I'm not sure why they wouldn't just add more sensors on the bar to increase accuracy.

 

[Nephasth]

Did you ask about the recoil  ?

Inquired about dual screen functionality and got this response.

Nope, their site says it has recoil. It didn't specify anything about dual screens, which is something the pertains to my build. The only reason I sent an email.

[Dartful Dodger]

What the heck?!?

I finally break down and buy an Aimtrack kit and soon after I get it working Ultimarc releases an assembled gun and after that Top Gun releases a wireless gun.

This hobby is for playing 30 year old games and yet it's like trying to keep up with an iPhone.

[lodoss118]

ur lucky i bought the usb2gun and real arcade guns - expensive and does not work good.

probably get these now

[Dartful Dodger]

Real arcade guns don't work? That stinks.

I kicked myself when they came out too. I prefer the Aimtrack body, I just didn't like putting it together.(I know, I'm in the wrong hobby)

I want a second gun, but since I'm using a 21 inch monitor two guns are sort of ridiculous.

I'll wait for someone to come out with an already assembled shot gun/rifle controller(that's under $100).

[Lilwolf]

My biggest complaint with the TopGun2 was the lag... it wasn't much, but it was there.  And for some games, you want to move to the left, shoot once, and move back to the right real quick...and sometimes it would register it off.

Wouldn't a wireless version have more lag?

I guess they could have fixed the lag in the circuits, that allowed them to add a bit more lag in the wireless.  (and I guess all the consoles got past the lag in the wireless)

so hopefully it's not an issue.

[MAGG]

targetbox seems abit strange though i mean youw ould rather have that thing inside the gun lol.
topgun 3 is appealing but lets see what other people think?

Has anyone seen how the thing looks inside? Would be a nice if it would fit in an old arcade gun.

[lodoss118]

i don't know any place u can order it from, i tried directly but get no response at all. I think on site ordering is for bulk only?

[MAGG]

it can be ordered at "goldenshop", but i do not know if they are trustworthy....

[lodoss118]

i can't find it on there?

[MAGG]

Did not know if links are allowed, but here you are:
http://www.goldenshop.com.hk/AI-trad/xbox/targetbox.htm

[lodoss118]

hmm that is the targetbox and not the topgun III

[Cruor]

Wow this thing looks sick.  And I had finally made up my mind to get the aimtraks.  Think I'll wait to see how other like the new topguns now.

[Martijn]

How about we get the ps3 assault rifle , repaint it



and the namco time crises 2 guns, and put the recoil of the namco guns into the assault rifle and add the ems top gun 3 wireless system and a huge batterij in de batterij magazine

gonna give that a try

[lodoss118]

still can't find a place to buy this thing

[TheSlim]

lodoss118 email play-asia.com, when this is forsale, they will be the first ones to have it.  I bought my TGII from them.

[lodoss118]

Hi Guys u know me i like wasting moneyz. I just ordered 2 of these will let u know how i get on .

[Martijn]

great, make some nice youtubes and review 

[Franco B]

You could have bought some dedicated original hardware which actually works with the money that you have spent rather than trying all these things which don't work or not very well 

[lodoss118]

yes i know lol

[shateredsoul1979]

took one for the team! Thanks! 

[BadMouth]

took one for the team! Thanks! 

I think he's on his third. 

[lodoss118]

lol the thing is the ultimarc usb gun is supposed to be somewhat different so i might get that from mr david foley aswell, i did try to get him to send me some software
but seems like he was not budging.

This ems topgun 3 will do a review when i get it.

[bkenobi]

I thought David Foley was in jail?  Apparently, the reports of his demise were greatly exaggerated.

[lodoss118]

hmm i think he got bailed out 100k

[lodoss118]

will make a video on weekend but it seems like a ok product.

[Nephasth]

You already got it?

[D_Struct]

I'll be picking one of the Top Gun III once they come back in stock. I've been looking for a solid light gun for my cab.

[DCsegaDH]

Where is it sold at?  

Edit: Never mind, it's on the EMS website. I thinking about getting two for my next project, a custom sit down candy cabinet.

[AndyWarne]

lol the thing is the ultimarc usb gun is supposed to be somewhat different so i might get that from mr david foley aswell, i did try to get him to send me some software
but seems like he was not budging.

This ems topgun 3 will do a review when i get it.

Just like to make it clear that we are absolutely nothing to do with David Foley!

Looking at the instructions they seem to have stuck with the original design concept which is basically a Guncon device (resolution of only 512 x 256) which uses drivers on a PC to convert to PC mouse.

[Nephasth]

will make a video on weekend but it seems like a ok product.

Bump...?

[Martijn]

lol the thing is the ultimarc usb gun is supposed to be somewhat different so i might get that from mr david foley aswell, i did try to get him to send me some software
but seems like he was not budging.

This ems topgun 3 will do a review when i get it.

Just like to make it clear that we are absolutely nothing to do with David Foley!

Looking at the instructions they seem to have stuck with the original design concept which is basically a Guncon device (resolution of only 512 x 256) which uses drivers on a PC to convert to PC mouse.

what resolution does your gun have then? and whats the main difference? for example ps2 and xbox 1 games

[lodoss118]

sorry guys been busy at work, will have something soon.

[Dartful Dodger]

Just like to make it clear that we are absolutely nothing to do with David Foley!

This reminded me of a SNL skit:

Ted Koppel: Why are you willing to do this?

Saddam Hussein: Because chemical weapons are a key part of my plan for global genocide? And that plan starts with wiping out the entire U.S. pouplation with anthrax!

Ted Koppel: Very strong words, sir!

Saddam Hussein: Also, at this time, I'd like to take a moment to say "Hi!" to my good, dear, dear friend -- and mayor of New York City -- Rudy Giuliani!

[ cut to Gracie Mansion, as Giuliani watches "Nightline" ]

Mayor Rudolph Giuliani: What the hell?!

[ the phone rings immediately;]

Giuliani answers: Hello? Yes, I just saw it. No, I don't know him!

[ he hangs up angrily ]

[Lilwolf]

Them's fight'n words!

lol the thing is the ultimarc usb gun is supposed to be somewhat different so i might get that from mr david foley aswell, i did try to get him to send me some software
but seems like he was not budging.

This ems topgun 3 will do a review when i get it.

Just like to make it clear that we are absolutely nothing to do with David Foley!

Looking at the instructions they seem to have stuck with the original design concept which is basically a Guncon device (resolution of only 512 x 256) which uses drivers on a PC to convert to PC mouse.

[lodoss118]

Hi guys lol i tried making a video today but for some reason the reload was not working but here is the video

[ark_ader]

OK, so you still have to stand back about six feet from the monitor?

How is the calibration?  Is it similar to the Topgun2 and is the plastic bars required for tracking?

Looks cool, shame about the reloading - I'm sure that gets old playing HOTD. 

PS/2 USB and Xbox1 interfaces as standard?

[Nephasth]

Recoil looks cool. How's the weight of the gun? And what are your overall thoughts on it?

[Xiaou2]

Do NOT use the laser when playing a game.  Its for calibration use Only.

 The laser can bounce back into your eyes, and can do permanent damages.

[RandyT]

Do NOT use the laser when playing a game.  Its for calibration use Only.

 The laser can bounce back into your eyes, and can do permanent damages.

I wouldn't worry about this too much.  A CRT screen will only kick back about 4%, since the inside is phosphor coated.  Probably not enough to do any serious damage.  That number also goes down if there is an anti-reflective coating, which is used on higher end monitors and televisions.

It looks like the tracking was pretty snappy, and the LED configuration seems better than the bars used on the TG2.  Do you have the old one to compare the performance to? Does it seem laggy at all?  That was the biggest complaint with the older model (well, that and the distance required.)  The tracking was pretty accurate, but always about a half second behind your aim.

[lodoss118]

I never had the old the model, I think it performs the same as the topgun2. When playing the hotd games it seems pretty responsive the button trigger would be better with a micro switch though.

[shateredsoul1979]

I'm sure it's difficult and impossible but I really wish someone would develop the technology that would allow light gun shooters without sensors.

[Martijn]

I'm sure it's difficult and impossible but I really wish someone would develop the technology that would allow light gun shooters without sensors.

 

[Lilwolf]

quick note... Put the LCD's on the top and bottom instead of the size.  It will allow you to get closer.

You need to be within 2 1/2 times the distance from each side.  So you want the smaller of the sides. 

btw, do you nice a lag?  like if there was a mouse showing, and you move the gun around quickly, is the mouse always trying to keep up?

[lettuce]

I thought the Wiimote was a good sub for a light gun??

[Xiaou2]

btw, do you nice a lag?  like if there was a mouse showing, and you move the gun around quickly, is the mouse always trying to keep up?

 The Topguns were not made for games like T2, which would require realtime tracking speed.

 Instead, it checks every so often.. but when you press the trigger, Im sure that no matter where/when it last was, the thing turns the tracking on immediately and fires in the correct spot.

 I had no trouble with shot accuracy on mine.

[shateredsoul1979]

I'm sure it's difficult and impossible but I really wish someone would develop the technology that would allow light gun shooters without sensors.

 

on lcd tvs  :'(

[AndyWarne]

I thought the Wiimote was a good sub for a light gun??

It depends on what you are looking for. If you just need something to move cross-hairs around on the screen then it does that. But for a gun which can be accurately calibrated to give line-of-sight firing and be used reasonably close to the screen then it wont be sufficient.

[shateredsoul1979]

Hey Andy, so when are you going to start selling fully built aimtraks with recoil?

[D_Struct]

Picked up a Top Gun 3, and the trigger broke within the first 3 hours of use. 

All of the other buttons still register, but the trigger stopped, and the recoil doesn't respond.

Not sure if I want to take the time to open it up and see if it's something simple, or if I just want to send it back and wait on the slow boat from China to bring me another one.

[D_Struct]

I appreciate the advice, but I'd rather do it on the up and up. I'm honest, to a fault.

[D_Struct]

To follow up, I pulled the barrel off, and found that the top (internal) part of the trigger, where it makes contact with the button, had snapped off somehow.

I'm pretty bummed, as I was really pleased with it for the little time I had it. It honestly worked for only a few hours before breaking.

I've got no other choice but to send it back and hope for a better outcome with a replacement.

[aljupy]

I never had the old the model, I think it performs the same as the topgun2. When playing the hotd games it seems pretty responsive the button trigger would be better with a micro switch though.

I attach a program called "MOUSERATECHECKER" It is to measure the response of mice, very useful for gamers.

just download it, unzip it, (it is so simple that doesn‘ t need install), and when the program runs, it will ask you to move your mouse pointer over its window, so it will rate its refresh. it is very useful to rate mice for gamers....
just do it with your topgun 3 and please, post results.

I remember a few years ago Topgun1 gave me an average between 55 and 60, same than a guncon, RF topgun gave 40 (because cheap wireless), and wiimote gave 500 (because 1Mp cam gives smooth, but lag of wiimote is still like ALL lightguns..... 15 or 20 ms to react.

Please tell results of your topgun3 here, an average of  50 or 60 will be Superb

-Best Regards

[cybermat]

I tried this tool with Topgun 3 and i get 30-33 hz of average.

I calibrated it a lot of times, same result and same problems like the old ones, the corners. I placed the leds horizontally and the corner more distant from the led is the less precise.

Anyway i'm happy with it, i knew that it was not the PERFECT product and i bought it knowing that. Aimtrak costs the double and sincerely i just want to own a decent Lightgun, no mamecab, just some sessions and have fun without spending a lot. And Wireless is very helpful for me, because the pc is in the other room and i play with Tv out in dinner room where i have more space. So wireless solution is perfect for me.

[Afterburner]

I have one of the original TopGun 1 models, and even with the LED bars taped directly above and below the 17" CRT monitor I was using, I still had to stand back 6-7 feet.  Sounds like that has not improved.

I was considering buying just the aimtrak guts and stuffing them into the TopGun so that I could keep the recoil and some of the other functions.  I really liked the features of the TopGun....too bad the performance was so poor.

[Xiaou2]

People have had excellent success with mounting a wide angle lens on the Topgun's, to drastically
reduce the distance from the screen.

 I imagine it would work with any of these type of guns.   Though, I dont know why it isnt sold that way by default.
All arcade light-guns use lenses.

[Afterburner]

I remember reading somewhere (on this board I think) about someone who was considering using the lens from a cell phone camera on the TopGun, but I never did hear of the results.

When you say "excellent success", does that mean you can stand 2 feet back instead of 6 ft?

[bkenobi]

Someone posted a video of a Top Gun with the aforementioned lens stuffed on the end.  The video showed a comparison of with and without the lens displaying accuracy and distance from the screen.  It's been a while, but as I recall there was a distinct improvement in distance without any notable loss in accuracy.

[Gryzor]

Guys, can anyone confirm that you can place the sensors on the horizontal sides to shorten the distance? My cab is in a pretty cramped space and even this would mean that with my screen (upper and lower sides 40cm apart) I would need 80cm at least to use it... How bad is accuracy if you go closer?

Thanks!

[ark_ader]

On Top Gun 2's I could never get it to calibrate properly or have the guns work a shorter distance.

What difference is there between the Top Gun 3 and the Top Gun 2?

[Dartful Dodger]

You can buy these on Amazon now.

I read throug hthis thread and can't find any solid reviews.

Who has them?
  How long have you been using them?
  Do they still work?

Are they any good?