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Author Topic: A Mouse Spinner Hack just about anyone can make.  (Read 4947 times)

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Louis Tully

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A Mouse Spinner Hack just about anyone can make.
« on: August 04, 2011, 07:18:02 pm »
Here's what I've come up with.

Parts:

1 Mouse
1 L-Bracket
1 Bolt
1 Locking Nut
2 Washers
1 Nylon Spacer
1 Spring from a Pen or Mechanical Pencil
2 drops of Glue (I used E-6000)
And whatever you want to use for a Spinner Top. I'm thinking about using an old Duncan Imperial Yo-Yo I've had lying around forever.

Tools:

Drill
screw driver
I used a Dremel to cut away the mouse case. You could use anything that gets the job done though. A band saw, some sand paper, scraping it on the sidewalk repeatedly, your teeth, etc... Whatever works for you.

          


Drill a hole in your panel. Take the Bolt, add the Nylon Spacer followed next by a Washer. Put it through the panel hole and add the other washer then the Locking Nut. Tighten until it twists easily but doesn't have too much friction. Cut away a bit of the mouse case as well as the part where the horizontal encoder wheel shaft connects to the mouse case. Take the Pen/Pencil spring and put a drop of glue on one end of it and attach it to the end of the encoder wheel. Use the L-Bracket to mount it to your panel, make sure the Spring/Encoder Wheel Shaft line up with the end of the Bolt. This might take a few tries to get right. (use scrap wood) Once it's all lined up, add a Drop of Glue to the end of the Bolt and Spring. Finally, add whatever you want to use as a Top and have fun playing.

Make sure you change the Analog setting in whatever game you're wanting to play. If you make this spinner Left is Right and Right is Left.

Thanks again to Steve B. for helping me with that.
In MAME, you can press Tab while playing, and choose "Analog Controls". There's an option to reverse the x axis which should correct your problem.

-L

DaOld Man

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Re: A Mouse Spinner Hack just about anyone can make.
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2011, 10:27:51 pm »
Looks good. I suggest you cover the other axis receiver with black tape, that way it wont accidentally register a move due to vibration, etc. (Or you could probably just remove the slotted wheel for that axis.)

Louis Tully

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Re: A Mouse Spinner Hack just about anyone can make.
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2011, 06:14:20 am »
Good call. I left it attached during the build so I wouldn't lose it in case I mangled the other one. I didn't even notice it was still there once I got it working. Too excited.

DaOld Man

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Re: A Mouse Spinner Hack just about anyone can make.
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2011, 11:47:53 am »
How does this rig "feel"?
Is there any lag or backlash due to the spring coupling?

dandare

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Re: A Mouse Spinner Hack just about anyone can make.
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2011, 01:29:03 pm »
This looks like a great idea!  I'm definitly going to give this a go.

I've wanted a spinner pretty much just for Tempest, but they are quite pricey just for one game.

Bonus points for the proposed Duncan yo-yo, i love those bad boys!

We could see some very cool, original spinner tops in the future.

Cheers!

Nephasth

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Re: A Mouse Spinner Hack just about anyone can make.
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2011, 01:41:02 pm »
Interesting hack. Got me thinking, could you mount an optical mouse in a similar fashion under a cp and have some sort of cylinder on the end of the bolt so it moves in front of the optics (making the mouse think it is moving)? Haven't done any research, but would that work as a spinner for MAME?

Louis Tully

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Re: A Mouse Spinner Hack just about anyone can make.
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2011, 02:51:45 pm »
It's funny that you should mention Tempest...

http://s577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/Louis_Tully/arcade%203/?action=view&current=SpinnerMouseHack-TempestMAME.mp4


I've never used a real spinner or any other spinner hacks so I can't say whether or not this would be considered good or bad. But I can say that there is no lag or backlash/hang-ups whatsoever. It's smooth. I've had a few people try it out and they didn't notice any problems. So to me, it's works like it should. There are 2 reasons why I chose a spring instead of just using a longer bolt. 1: It fits perfectly over the encoder wheel shaft. And most importantly 2: The spring can corrects any misalignment in the design. If the line from the top of the bolt to the bottom of the encoder wheel is just a tiny bit off, which in this case it is, the spring makes up for it. I mean, it's pretty damn close, I wouldn't attach it with an obvious flex in the spring or anything like that but... you get the idea.

I've thought about trying to use an optical mouse/cylinder for a spinner but couldn't get past the issue of friction. Something's got to keep contact with it for it to register movement. Just seemed like it'd work but not work well. I've not tried though, just thought about it. It could work better than anything out there right. Who knows?  I've seen a hack somewhere that someone used an optical mouse to make a flight yoke. It's on the forum here. It looked seems like it'd be good for that application. No real spins are needed there.

-L

Nephasth

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Re: A Mouse Spinner Hack just about anyone can make.
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2011, 02:58:34 pm »
I've thought about trying to use an optical mouse/cylinder for a spinner but couldn't get past the issue of friction. Something's got to keep contact with it for it to register movement. Just seemed like it'd work but not work well. I've not tried though, just thought about it. It could work better than anything out there right. Who knows?  I've seen a hack somewhere that someone used an optical mouse to make a flight yoke. It's on the forum here. It looked seems like it'd be good for that application. No real spins are needed there.

Friction? I can lift my mouse about 1/16" off the desk and it still registers movement.

Louis Tully

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Re: A Mouse Spinner Hack just about anyone can make.
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2011, 03:03:20 pm »
Well, there ya go... Sounds like it should work then. Like I said, I've never tried. Only thought about it.

Nephasth

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Re: A Mouse Spinner Hack just about anyone can make.
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2011, 03:10:40 pm »
*Digs for parts*

Louis Tully

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Re: A Mouse Spinner Hack just about anyone can make.
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2011, 03:22:06 pm »
You know what would be cool, in theory, if that optical mouse/spinner/cylinder type thing does work well...

What if, for a dedicated driver setup, it was made of heaver materials? Ya know, to give it more of a steering wheel kind of feel when you turn. That could work, I think.



-L
« Last Edit: August 06, 2011, 03:29:28 pm by Louis Tully »

jimmy2x2x

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Re: A Mouse Spinner Hack just about anyone can make.
« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2011, 03:26:35 pm »
Great hack, thanks!

Nephasth

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Re: A Mouse Spinner Hack just about anyone can make.
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2011, 04:56:05 pm »
Well, the optical mouse with cylinder works. I tested it with an unmolested mouse and a drill. I'll try setting up a solid fixture for demonstration purposes.

Nephasth

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Re: A Mouse Spinner Hack just about anyone can make.
« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2011, 06:54:34 pm »
I don't see the need for another mouse hack thread, so I thought I'd put this in with this one. Not trying to thread jack, and staying somewhat on topic. Louis, if you want me to remove this I have no problem doing so.

Built a "prototype" for the optical mouse spinner. Pretty straight forward. Some small planks of wood, genuine arcade cabinet brackets, a long bolt, nuts, washers, small plastic cup, and an optical mouse with the top cover removed.



Here you can see the clearance between the plastic cup and the mouse.


A quick video of the optical mouse spinner in use.
http://s1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb436/nephasth/?action=view&current=2011-08-06_16-15-45_680.mp4
« Last Edit: August 06, 2011, 06:57:06 pm by Nephasth »

Louis Tully

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Re: A Mouse Spinner Hack just about anyone can make.
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2011, 07:08:36 pm »
 :cheers:

I like it. I believe I may have a go at making one. Good work, man.

-L

Nephasth

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Re: A Mouse Spinner Hack just about anyone can make.
« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2011, 08:37:23 pm »
Thanks. Now we know it works. And like you were saying, could make for a very easy steering wheel. Oh and the hardware fix for the mouse being backwards, the cord of the mouse should be towards the CP and spinner knob.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2011, 08:39:32 pm by Nephasth »

TopJimmyCooks

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Re: A Mouse Spinner Hack just about anyone can make.
« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2011, 09:40:15 pm »
I played an original Arkanoid and the spinner in it had a clicky feel, like it had 12 or 20 detent points around the 360 degree rotation.  sure made it easier to play, but I don't know enough about the original gear to know if that's how it was or just some weird replacement.  Even with the sensitivity on 1 my turbotwist 1 is too sensitive. 

the reason why this is related to this post:  (as I'm sure you were wondering)

I want to look at putting some resistance on my spinner, probably removable/selectable.  right now, it will free spin 10 revs or so if you spin it.  I would like to try some geared spinner games with a spring arm bearing on a wheel or on the shaft or something similar.  it seems like mouse hacks work well for this type of play since there is more resistance in the system, it pretty much stays where it is when you let go.

Maybe time to get out a junk mouse and give the adjustable resistance a go. 

DaOld Man

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Re: A Mouse Spinner Hack just about anyone can make.
« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2011, 09:57:49 pm »
I want to look at putting some resistance on my spinner, probably removable/selectable.  right now, it will free spin 10 revs or so if you spin it.  I would like to try some geared spinner games with a spring arm bearing on a wheel or on the shaft or something similar.  it seems like mouse hacks work well for this type of play since there is more resistance in the system, it pretty much stays where it is when you let go.  

How about placing a magnet near the counter weight, or perhaps the shaft?

DaOld Man

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Re: A Mouse Spinner Hack just about anyone can make.
« Reply #18 on: August 06, 2011, 09:58:42 pm »
This is a great idea. Great work guys on building your own. Now I gotta make one.

Nephasth

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Re: A Mouse Spinner Hack just about anyone can make.
« Reply #19 on: August 06, 2011, 10:12:55 pm »
I played an original Arkanoid and the spinner in it had a clicky feel, like it had 12 or 20 detent points around the 360 degree rotation.  sure made it easier to play, but I don't know enough about the original gear to know if that's how it was or just some weird replacement.  Even with the sensitivity on 1 my turbotwist 1 is too sensitive. 

the reason why this is related to this post:  (as I'm sure you were wondering)

I want to look at putting some resistance on my spinner, probably removable/selectable.  right now, it will free spin 10 revs or so if you spin it.  I would like to try some geared spinner games with a spring arm bearing on a wheel or on the shaft or something similar.  it seems like mouse hacks work well for this type of play since there is more resistance in the system, it pretty much stays where it is when you let go.

Maybe time to get out a junk mouse and give the adjustable resistance a go. 

I have an Arkanoid with the original spinner. When I got it the optic board was not lined up properly and the optic wheel would hit the sensor as you spun the spinner. It had a clicky feel with it out of adjustment. Once I adjusted it properly, the click went away and spun smoothly, but you can definitely hear the gears. I love my Arkanoid spinner. The mouse spinner I threw together today is nothing compared to the Arkanoid. As far as sensitivity with the optical mouse spinner, if you were to use a smaller cylinder the spinner wouldn't be as "fast".

TopJimmyCooks

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Re: A Mouse Spinner Hack just about anyone can make.
« Reply #20 on: August 07, 2011, 02:20:31 pm »
...When I got it the optic board was not lined up properly and the optic wheel would hit the sensor as you spun the spinner. It had a clicky feel with it out of adjustment. Once I adjusted it properly, the click went away and spun smoothly, but you can definitely hear the gears. ...

Good info, and it makes sense. A lot of the games in the arcade (Disney Quest orlando) were in piss poor repair. I'm definitely going to follow up on the faux gearing feel mod after I get a few other things out of the way. 

Nephasth

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Re: A Mouse Spinner Hack just about anyone can make.
« Reply #21 on: August 07, 2011, 11:06:46 pm »
Could you cut a slot (maybe even just drill a hole) in the bracket next to the washers, use bigger washers that would get close to the slot, and mount the optical mouse pcb easily to the back side of the bracket? Would make for a nice compact package.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2011, 11:08:19 pm by Nephasth »

Louis Tully

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Re: A Mouse Spinner Hack just about anyone can make.
« Reply #22 on: August 08, 2011, 05:57:40 am »
This is simultaneously the coolest and dumbest thing I've rigged in months.

You should try making electronic drum triggers. Lots of random ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---. Little foam bits, masking tape, some cut up mouse pads, hot glue, electrical tape, window screen, L-brackets, etc...

   
It'll give new meaning to "coolest and dumbest rigged thing" easily. ha

Nice design, btw. I'm pretty sure some time spent in the hardware department could yield some solid options.

Do either one of you have an actual spinner, if so, how would you say hacks compare? Not physically. Response wise, do they seem close?

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Re: A Mouse Spinner Hack just about anyone can make.
« Reply #23 on: August 08, 2011, 06:40:12 am »
I like using HDD Motors - they just spin like the dickens.

You can sometimes fit the encoding wheel at the bottom of the HDD screw hole, and with some glue it stays on there.

Make sure you remove the plastics and reduce the height of that spinner!!
If I post something that upsets you, it is probably due to a simple miscommunication or the fact I am right.  It is not intentional, but if you feel that you have been singled out, cry to the nearest mod and I will endeavour to rectify it.  Thank you.

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Re: A Mouse Spinner Hack just about anyone can make.
« Reply #24 on: August 08, 2011, 10:19:39 pm »
Wonder how the optical mouse would do "looking at" the HDD drum?

Louis Tully

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Re: A Mouse Spinner Hack just about anyone can make.
« Reply #25 on: August 09, 2011, 05:35:09 am »
I had the same result with Arkanoid. Thought it was just me. Tempest is great though. Guess I'll just stick with the hack. $70 goes a long way with other arcade parts/materials. Thanks for the input.

Nephasth

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Re: A Mouse Spinner Hack just about anyone can make.
« Reply #26 on: August 09, 2011, 07:54:19 am »
I had to adjust the sensitivity in mame's settings on arkanoid. That seemed to help a little.

Louis Tully

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Re: A Mouse Spinner Hack just about anyone can make.
« Reply #27 on: August 09, 2011, 09:41:01 am »
At some point I'm gonna have to sit down and figure out how to use a spinner in non-spinner games.  I think it'd be fine in stuff like Gyruss, Galaga, The End, and anything else where you're going in a circle or just left and right.




That would justify the cost of a GGG spinner for me completely.

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Re: A Mouse Spinner Hack just about anyone can make.
« Reply #28 on: August 09, 2011, 11:12:35 am »
At some point I'm gonna have to sit down and figure out how to use a spinner in non-spinner games.  I think it'd be fine in stuff like Gyruss, Galaga, The End, and anything else where you're going in a circle or just left and right.



The biggest issue I can see is that in at least Gyruss and Galaga your left/right movement is at a fixed speed, so you would at best be mapping +X -> Right Joy, -X -> Left Joy.

You should be able to do this rather easily with a program like GlovePIE: http://glovepie.org/glovepie.php
From a quick scan of the documentation it looks like doing the mapping will be two lines of code:
http://glovepie.org/w/index.php?title=Preliminary_Documentation_v0.43#Mouse.DirectInputX_and_Mouse.DirectInputY

Something akin to:
mouse.DirectInput-X = keyboard.Left
mouse.DirectInputX = keyboard.Right
That's not correct code as I havn't read it enough yet, but should be simple enough to do.

TopJimmyCooks

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Re: A Mouse Spinner Hack just about anyone can make.
« Reply #29 on: August 09, 2011, 01:59:24 pm »
I've played gyruss with the spinner (turbotwist 1, z axis, Mame 141u3, mapped to joystick r and L) and experienced an annoying thing:  the ship stops at 9:00 and 3:00 sometimes.  If you're rolling around, you have to stop and restart the spinner rotation to get past 9 and 3.  wen't back to joystick for that reason. 

Generic Eric

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Re: A Mouse Spinner Hack just about anyone can make.
« Reply #30 on: September 01, 2011, 10:33:22 am »
omigosh.  can't believe I missed this thread.  good show folks.  Another trip to the hardware store for parts I guess.  ...And another hole in the control panel.

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Re: A Mouse Spinner Hack just about anyone can make.
« Reply #31 on: September 13, 2011, 12:16:08 am »
Sorry I missed this when it first veered into home made spinners with optical mice.  Pardon the old html but here is a look at three different spinners using optical mice I built over the past decade (blurry teaser photos below):

http://www.theidolsofthetribe.com/jim/pages/spinners.html


The hard drive unit packed in the old VHS-C case is about as goofy BYOAC as you can get.

While any optical mouse will work I have had good luck on later versions with the Microsoft 500 compact mouse.
http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Compact-Optical-Mouse-500/dp/B00080DSEM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1315887123&sr=8-1

Like I mention on the page I liked the experience of building them but in the end I picked up a real spinner from Randy at GroovyGameGear.  Home made is good for Omega Race but the Turbo Twist 2 feels better for Tempest.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2011, 12:22:35 am by z »
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Re: A Mouse Spinner Hack just about anyone can make.
« Reply #32 on: September 13, 2011, 12:30:03 pm »
This is really great.  I already have two mouse hacks done
but this gives me some ideas for another cab...

Great work!

psychotech

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Re: A Mouse Spinner Hack just about anyone can make.
« Reply #33 on: September 14, 2011, 08:51:03 pm »
Not an optical but a ball mouse spinner hack I made a few years ago using an obsolete hard disk mechanism..

Could/should be pretty easily adaptable to optical mouse hacks too?

Absolutely no friction problems and it's pretty easy to fabricate and fine tune. Works nicely with Tempest etc. :)



Info & more pics starting @ http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=61679.msg662703#msg662703

leapinlew

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Re: A Mouse Spinner Hack just about anyone can make.
« Reply #34 on: September 14, 2011, 09:14:25 pm »
Spinning


This is using a version of mame I'm using on my tempest cabinet modified to use the spinner. Only works for certain games but you can see the fixed speed isn't an issue.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2011, 09:17:24 pm by leapinlew »

psychotech

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Re: A Mouse Spinner Hack just about anyone can make.
« Reply #35 on: September 14, 2011, 10:17:11 pm »
Anyone else praying for a hard drive to die?



 ;D


 :laugh2:

Allrighty, and then again..

The world's cluttered with small (&) old hard drives no one uses anymore.
Even if you didn't have one gathering dust somewhere already, they're so cheap (if not free) it'd be a viable option if & when BYO mouse spinner hack..

In any case, one could use the text & pictures I referred to just as inspiration for way better solutions / bad example  :cheers:

leapinlew

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Re: A Mouse Spinner Hack just about anyone can make.
« Reply #36 on: September 14, 2011, 10:27:25 pm »
Anyone else praying for a hard drive to die?



 ;D


 :laugh2:

Allrighty, and then again..

The world's cluttered with small (&) old hard drives no one uses anymore.
Even if you didn't have one gathering dust somewhere already, they're so cheap (if not free) it'd be a viable option if & when BYO mouse spinner hack..

In any case, one could use the text & pictures I referred to just as inspiration for way better solutions / bad example  :cheers:

And just where the hell have you been?

psychotech

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Re: A Mouse Spinner Hack just about anyone can make.
« Reply #37 on: September 14, 2011, 11:07:33 pm »
 :dunno

Well, hello there!

You know, just lur-lurk-lurking around...
Basically just trying to stay away and NOT start building yet another bartop ;)

Yeah, just found a really old Sketchup plan for a "normal" cab I presumably did right after finishing the jukebox/pinball hybrid ::)

We'll see..

  
 

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