Virtual Reality? Anyone else interested, or just me?

[fallacy]

I just bought an Acer® H5360 3D-DLP Projector, and a di-lite High Powered 120 inch screen which is suppose to reflect the image back so brightly it’s almost the same as watching a 120” TV.

I am wondering if anyone has played around with setting up a racing game with 3d projectors. I am looking for ideas for virtual emersion. If you know of any good links please post them.
I have always been interested in VR since the late 90’s. I bought tons of books and novels, then the VFX-3D came out.
http://www.stereo3d.com/vfx3d.htm
As we all know VR never emerged. I remember even having a conversation with one of my professor back in 1999. We were talking about trends in technology and I brought up VR headsets and when they would be main stream. I said about 8 years and then he said no with the way technology is increasing it will be 5 to 6 years. 12 years later we still no closer to home consumer video game emersion.

However with the higher quality and price drop of projectors, 3d technology for consumers and games that are programmed to run on 3 separate screens simultaneously with the right hardware it seems actually possible now to create VR for the home consumer. You will have your depth of field and with the right vertical and horizontal set up your perspective vision. Along with Doby surround sound. Only other thing that would be missing is the head tracking.

[scofthe7seas]

I'm going to vent for a second here.
Back in like.. 2000 3d LCD shutter glasses were available at decent prices. Like you posted, they even had a variety of headsets that had individual small monitors for each eye, which would basically emulate the virtual reality you're talking about. I didn't have the headset, but I had a pair of glasses (I think they might be in my parents garage..), and I was enjoying some 3d back in those days. It's annoyed the hell out of me how every piece of information insists that 3d HAS to be in 120Hz. I was rocking 3d at like 60Hz, and it gave some people headaches (not me), which is why the requirement was bumped up. I still think it should be a choice that the consumer can make without having to pay extra for hardware that technically isn't needed.
As far as current 3d virtual reality... I don't think that's going to happen. I do believe that 3d movies will continue to grow, but 3d games are a novelty right now. I used to like playing games in 3d. It made them cooler, for sure. Something like The Undying in 3d was pretty freaky. But with time, Nvidia even stopped the 3d part of their drivers from updating, and you had to roll back to older drivers to continue using it for games. Not to mention that the support at the time wasn't amazing. You couldn't use shader/pixel effects with 3d at the time. Things like bump mapping wouldn't work with it.
But these days, 3d is something that's kind of tacked on for games, and I don't know if it will move past that. The hardware supply/demand doesn't warrent full commitment from gaming companies to really put effort into making solid 3d games. The glasses alone are typically 100 or so dollars, not to mention the ridiculous Nvidia bundle you need to get for PC 3d games. The price for 3d TVs are dropping, and that's a good thing. I think they will phase out regular TVs, and people will be getting them even if they don't plan on using them for 3d. It's nice to have something like that as a "bonus" for your TV.
I mean, full virtual reality gaming is not that hard to do, technically. Some kind of cockpit game (flight, or mech) with a VR headset and head tracking to follow where you look within the cockpit.. plus an appropriate controller, would be awesome. But how many people are going to go for that? People ---smurfette--- and moan about even needing to wear glasses for 3d.

[fallacy]

People will go for anything in gamming as long as it’s good. Problem with the VR headsets in the past is that they were never good. If they did not cause eye strain from looking at an image that close to your face then the image was really small peculated and crappy.

I would like to see these Sony 3D Goggles for myself. They are marketing them for movie watching experience yet nothing about gamming?

[Blanka]

Virtual reality has nothing to do with displays, nor 3D. It is about having the feeling that you are in another place. Guess Second Life and WOW are more VR than any hardware solution can ever be.

[scofthe7seas]

I think there's a loose definition of what the term means. But we're specifically talking about a visual / audio virtual reality.

I would imagine if those goggles had standard inputs they could be used for games, but probably not for PC, which is where the widest variety of 3d compatible games are, due to Nvidia's stupid lockdown on 3d hardware.

[Corbo]

I've been waiting for the Vuzix VR1440 glasses for longer than I can remember.  I too enjoyed stereoscopic 3D in the 90's/early 00's starting with Virtuality in the arcades, and then some Elsa Revelators on my own PC.  These were not VR glasses, just 3D shutter glasses so you were still looking at your monitor but with depth of field.  Playing Flight Unlimited or Colin Mcrae Rally was simply awesome with the extra dimension, and I've wanted good VR glasses since.

These shutter glasses fell by the wayside as LCD's took off and the refresh rates were too low to make them work for a long time.

VR920's etc just didn't seem to make the cut for me, too low a resolution, too small field of view.  Rumours of an improved VR1440 have been about for years but Vuzix are more interested in augmented reality in the style of wrap around sunglasses at the moment.

[danny_galaga]

I honestly think that everything we have seen, and will see for now, is just novelty. Until we get the experience streamed straight into out brain, Existenz style, it can't be anything but novelty...

[Corbo]

I honestly think that everything we have seen, and will see for now, is just novelty. Until we get the experience streamed straight into out brain, Existenz style, it can't be anything but novelty...

That would be the ultimate goal, but until then we could at least strive for increased immersion.

Besides, would you plug a Microsoft OS into your brain?

[danny_galaga]

I honestly think that everything we have seen, and will see for now, is just novelty. Until we get the experience streamed straight into out brain, Existenz style, it can't be anything but novelty...

That would be the ultimate goal, but until then we could at least strive for increased immersion.

Besides, would you plug a Microsoft OS into your brain?

None of the Sci Fi novels I read as a kid ever mentioned Microsoft...

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

http://paulbourke.net/miscellaneous/domemirror/mirrordome/

something like this?

[LeedsFan]

I'm waiting for "Better Than Life" to be released.   

[scofthe7seas]

I honestly think that everything we have seen, and will see for now, is just novelty. Until we get the experience streamed straight into out brain, Existenz style, it can't be anything but novelty...

I disagree with this. People have two eyes, and the way 3d is displayed now is as close to how it can be done on a flat screen. You need one picture at different angles for each eye to simulate depth, as we see it now. Other technology is being developed to show 3d without glasses, and I don't know what kind of magic is involved with that (3DS, some 3d picture frames), but I do know it's not at all viable to use that tech in any large scale high res application. For now, it's shutter glasses. I think we will get polarized glasses for the house eventually, but it will be a ways down the line before 3d can be viewed without glasses.
I think existenz style would freak people out. Imagine a full on reality not controlled by yourself. Bleh.

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

this + shutter glasses instead of safety glasses = ultimate win?

[fallacy]

[fallacy]

[Gray_Area]

I would like to see these Sony 3D Goggles for myself. They are marketing them for movie watching experience yet nothing about gamming?

I don't know which made it more difficult to get through that clip - her voice, or her underbite.


High resolution contact lenses, at least. Retinal inserts, even more so.

[fallacy]

I remember this game

[danny_galaga]

I honestly think that everything we have seen, and will see for now, is just novelty. Until we get the experience streamed straight into out brain, Existenz style, it can't be anything but novelty...

I disagree with this. People have two eyes, and the way 3d is displayed now is as close to how it can be done on a flat screen. You need one picture at different angles for each eye to simulate depth, as we see it now. Other technology is being developed to show 3d without glasses, and I don't know what kind of magic is involved with that (3DS, some 3d picture frames), but I do know it's not at all viable to use that tech in any large scale high res application. For now, it's shutter glasses. I think we will get polarized glasses for the house eventually, but it will be a ways down the line before 3d can be viewed without glasses.
I think existenz style would freak people out. Imagine a full on reality not controlled by yourself. Bleh.

Everything you just wrote sounds more in aggreement with me than not 

So long as it's presently solely in front of you, on a flat screen, it's always going to be merely a window to a 3d world...

If not Existenz, how about a holo-deck?

[Blanka]

Just put some batteries in my 1983 Tomytronic 3D Stereo Skyfighters! OMG SOOO COOL!

[TopJimmyCooks]

Just played a head mount based VR game at DisneyQuest (big arcade at Downtown Disney, Orlando FL).  Called Ride the Comix or something similarly ridiculous.  It was a VR environment, you could look around but not move on your own, you stay seated on a leaning bench thing.  You get a "sword" you could activate and swing to fight what was in front of you.  Several annoyances:

To activate your light saber you had to push two thumb buttons that required some heavy pressure even for an adult to hold down. (why?)
Light saber attached to the "seat" with a sprung retractable nylon cord - constant tug.  it appeared to be a wireless device like a wiimote.  These were both huge put offs for my very game savvy 8 y/o.  why not just make it a gun game where you shoot fireballs or something?

Gameplay sucked donkey
-the only thing that had any effect on the enemies was a huge side to side swing.  chop down or thrust and you die.
-graphics make an atari 2600 look fresh.
-Sound was straight into the ear binaural.  no difference in sound location related to head direction that I could detect. 
-if you take any time to look around during play you get romped by the enemy who always appears right in front of you. 
-6 players at a time but no interaction, can't see any non CPU players at any time. 

I realize they have to play to a large potential range of audience, but it was truly awful for all.  the equipment has potential, no disorientation, etc. but the software and ergonomics were just terrible.  They should delete it and just use Wii Speed slice from Wii sports resort, it would be the best game in the place.

[fallacy]

Just played a head mount based VR game at DisneyQuest (big arcade at Downtown Disney, Orlando FL).  Called Ride the Comix or something similarly ridiculous.  It was a VR environment, you could look around but not move on your own, you stay seated on a leaning bench thing.  You get a "sword" you could activate and swing to fight what was in front of you.  Several annoyances:

To activate your light saber you had to push two thumb buttons that required some heavy pressure even for an adult to hold down. (why?)
Light saber attached to the "seat" with a sprung retractable nylon cord - constant tug.  it appeared to be a wireless device like a wiimote.  These were both huge put offs for my very game savvy 8 y/o.  why not just make it a gun game where you shoot fireballs or something?

Gameplay sucked donkey
-the only thing that had any effect on the enemies was a huge side to side swing.  chop down or thrust and you die.
-graphics make an atari 2600 look fresh.
-Sound was straight into the ear binaural.  no difference in sound location related to head direction that I could detect.
-if you take any time to look around during play you get romped by the enemy who always appears right in front of you.
-6 players at a time but no interaction, can't see any non CPU players at any time.

I realize they have to play to a large potential range of audience, but it was truly awful for all.  the equipment has potential, no disorientation, etc. but the software and ergonomics were just terrible.  They should delete it and just use Wii Speed slice from Wii sports resort, it would be the best game in the place.

sounds like a 1989 creation.

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

http://teamnemitoff.com/html/ride_the_comix.html

Date of development:
1998 - 1999

Description:
“Ride the Comix” is a VR game developed for Walt Disney’s “Disney Quest” LBE centers and was installed in Chicago and Orlando (where it is currently in use).   The attraction features six players who are seated around the perimeter of a flying vehicle wielding laser swords in order to fight off villains from the comic book universe.   It features both single player competition and cooperative team play. There were a total of 11 different types of villains each with its own unique fighting style and vulnerabilities.

Employer / Client:
Millenium Rush LLC

Type of Employment:
Employee

Number of Developers:
8

Position Held:
Sr. Developer

Platform:
SGI Onyx 2 with Reality Engine Hardware

Key Technologies:
C++; CVS; Performer; Maya; 3D Studio Max; Photoshop;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InfiniteReality#Reality

Reality

The Reality is a cost-reduced version of the InfiniteReality2 intended to provide similar performance. Instead of using the GE14-4 Geometry Engine board and the RM7-16 or RM7-64 Raster Manager boards, the Reality used the GE14-2 Geometry Engine board and the RM8-16 or RM8-64 Raster Manager boards. The GE14-2 has two Geometry Engine Processors, instead of four like the other models. The RM8-16 and RM864 has 16 or 64 MB of texture memory respectively and 40 MB of raster memory. The Reality was also limited by the number of Raster Manager boards it could support, one or two. When maximally configured with two RM8-64 Raster Manager boards, the Reality pipeline has 80 MB of raster memory.

Looks like they managed something fairly impressive, given the hardware and timeframe they were working in. Keep in mind at this point in history one of the fastest consumer video cards available is the nVidia TNT2.

[Donkbaca]

 

Yup, plus most of these type gigs are just gimmicks, where the point is to show of the tech, not to, you know, have a enjoyable experience.

[TopJimmyCooks]

http://teamnemitoff.com/html/ride_the_comix.html

Date of development:
1998 - 1999

The time frame explains a lot and no disrespect intended to the guys who developed it.  The hardware is there; the game wouldn't have been any good 10 years ago.  Disney, come on, this things getting a little long in the tooth . . .

The reason 3d and vr have never taken off in the home environment is that most people aren't 100% engaged when their watching tv.  Kinda hard to fold laundry and cook with a headset on.

True dat.  Can't watch tv without the laptop on anymore.

[saint]

Aladdin's Magic Carpet Ride at Disney Quest:



5 seconds, literally 5 seconds, on the ride and I broke out in a cold sweat and it took everything I had not to vomit. I ripped the helmet off, and was sick for the next two hours. Completely killed the night for me.

VR-3d is dead to me until they have technology that doesn't do that to me.

[Vigo]

Just put some batteries in my 1983 Tomytronic 3D Stereo Skyfighters! OMG SOOO COOL!

  I have the racing one. Those things were sweet.

[scofthe7seas]

Everything you just wrote sounds more in aggreement with me than not 

So long as it's presently solely in front of you, on a flat screen, it's always going to be merely a window to a 3d world...

If not Existenz, how about a holo-deck?

Well, the thing is, what are movies at all but 2d windows into another world? I love 3d tech. Loved it since I first heard of it. Not that red/cyan crap, but genuine different view per eye 3d. Magic eye, viewmaster, polarized, LCD shutter; love it all. It bothers me that so many people seem to be against 3d. I worry it will discourage the progress in the field. I think if people don't like 3d in its current state, don't watch it that way... but don't tear it down for others that do (this is not directed at you, just a frustration in general..)

5 seconds, literally 5 seconds, on the ride and I broke out in a cold sweat and it took everything I had not to vomit. I ripped the helmet off, and was sick for the next two hours. Completely killed the night for me.

VR-3d is dead to me until they have technology that doesn't do that to me.

I would love the try that out, honestly. Something that can make a person sick in 3d is something I would like to look into.
Then again, I once had the flu and lost my equilibrium for about an hour. It was quite pleasent, laying in my bed listening to my ipod.
My 3d projector says in the manual that some people can't see 3d with lcd shutter glasses, and I've heard reports of the same from people. I've also heard it gives some people headaches.

[Donkbaca]

its a dying fad, people aren't interested in wearing stuff on their head.  3d movies are tanking.

[Vigo]

I'd also attribute that to the sheer volume of crappy 3d there is out there. I can count on one hand the number of movies I have seen with truely impressive 3d.

I love 3D stuff, but I have become skiddish around 3d movies.

[scofthe7seas]

its a dying fad, people aren't interested in wearing stuff on their head.  3d movies are tanking.

I think Imax has been around for a while, and people haven't complained about that. Just now that it's more popular are people pissing and moaning.

There are 25 movies announced for the second half of this year that will be in 3d.

I just don't get it. 3d movies weren't a big annoyance until 3d tvs came out. Then people started crapping their pants, rallying against it. Bunch of freaking cyclopes.

I honestly can't imagine a person not liking something in 3d. It doesn't have to wow you, it can be subtle, just something there. Personally, I don't like 3d movies that poke at my face, and I think that's what people typically associate with 3d. Gimmicky face poking. Explain to me what you dislike about 3d. Is it literally just the glasses?

[Vigo]

For me, it became a distraction from the movie. When 3d is done well, it adds depth and realism to the film, when it is done poorly, it can confuse me as to exactly what is happening. I used to go to the 3d version at every chance. Then I watched some movies that had fast paced action with quick camera movements and I lost what was happening on screen on because my mind was busy trying to comprehend the 3d. I decided it wasn't worth the extra 5 bucks when the 3d is just dialed in.

It isn't really a real 3d vs fake 3d thing either. yeah, the fake, post-processing 3d sucks, but the real thing can suck as well. Some directors have no eye for 3d, or 3d just isn't envisioned during filming at all. I don't blame them, most of the time they are making a film, not a 3d spectacle. The film just becomes more diluted when you are naturally forced to focus on a 3d tree in the foreground, when what the director wants you to see is the expression of the face of the man sitting behind it.

That being said, I am would easily be willing to watch a 3D movie when it is done right, and if it is a movie that 3D would add to the experience.

[scofthe7seas]

I can get behind that. I do think a lot of the issues people are having is with the post processed ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---. There actually aren't many truly stereoscope filmed movies out. However, any of the 3d animated movies shine pretty brightly, more so than others. Coraline for instance, is a great movie, and the 3d adds to it quite a bit. I do believe it is a spectacle at the moment, and that is detracting. So many people in the movie business are jumping on the 3d bandwagon like there's no tomorrow. I think that's pissing people off because it's a pretty obvious sign of greed within an already greedy industry. But, they can't really be blamed because Avatar was the highest grossing movie ever. That was some well done 3d, and I think more should be in that direction. But the studios only see the dollars and the "gimmick"
I'm not a fan of the Transformers series, but I heard it was made entirely with 3d in mind, supposedly like Avatar. Michael Bay movies might not have the most substance and plot, but the man knows how to make something pretty. I wasn't interested in it at all until I read that about it. We'll see, eh?
I think the expectations of 3d movies are causing a problem with it. You pay more, so you expect something more, and technically that should be the case, but it isn't always.
Look at it this way. Think about a bunch of the recent 3d movies. Would anything have actually helped them be good movies? I think the 3d is sharing the blame for that.

[fallacy]

I have seen everything at Imax,  It’s with out a doubt ---fudgesicle---.IN SWEET! I don’t know if they build the IMX Theater differently in different places but the one here is completely 100% immersive when sitting in the correct seat. It makes me a VR believer, it’s a beautiful thing. 

When I sit there I think … man if they could some how get this image I am seeing inside a head display it would revolutionize the gamming industry. Maybe someday… maybe some day.

[Donkbaca]

It's not about greed, it's about survival. Movies have always competed with home entertainment. The tv comes out- movies go color. Color tv comes out - movies go widescreen. VCRs come out - studios improve sound quality. Part of he movie experience had always been about offering the consumer something they can't get at home and now they are competing with 55inch hi def screens hooked up to 7.1 sound. 3d is their latest attempt to stay relevant

[Vigo]

Coraline for instance, is a great movie, and the 3d adds to it quite a bit.

  Coraline is easily in my top 5 for best 3D I have ever seen. If 3D of that calibur was more consistant, I would spring for a 3D TV in a New York minute.

[fallacy]

It's not about greed, it's about survival. Movies have always competed with home entertainment. The tv comes out- movies go color. Color tv comes out - movies go widescreen. VCRs come out - studios improve sound quality. Part of he movie experience had always been about offering the consumer something they can't get at home and now they are competing with 55inch hi def screens hooked up to 7.1 sound. 3d is their latest attempt to stay relevant

Avatar is solely the reason for the current 3D boom. 3D has been an ongoing thing in movies for the last 25 years.

[scofthe7seas]

It's not about greed, it's about survival. Movies have always competed with home entertainment. The TV comes out- movies go color. Color TV comes out - movies go widescreen. VCRs come out - studios improve sound quality. Part of he movie experience had always been about offering the consumer something they can't get at home and now they are competing with 55inch hi def screens hooked up to 7.1 sound. 3d is their latest attempt to stay relevant

It absolutely is about greed. The price of making a 2d movie into 3d is literally about .5 - 1% of the cost of the average movie, and for this, an additional 3 dollars per movie ticket sold. The movie industry is not at all wanting in terms of customers. One of the only things not harmed by the recession is entertainment. People will go to the theatres regardless of gimmicks. They see a funny trailer, Seth Rogen, an animated panda, whatever, they're going. People with reasonable home theatres are in the minority. Sure, large HD TVs are becoming more prevalent, but do these people typically get the surround sound systems with them? No way. Not to mention a 55 inch TV still isn't anything like sitting in a large dark room with a 70 foot screen in front of you.
In my opinion, 3d is a new step in a (hopefully) evolutionary form of entertainment. There are people out there that KNOW how to make good movies, and as these people look into the tech, they're going to do some GREAT things with it. And these movies will be shining examples for other movies to come. Movies have to top one another, so people have to try harder, and that's just not going to happen with Green Hornet, or Crap of the Titans.

Mind you, this is coming from someone who still owns HD-DVDs, and 2 HD-DVD players with which to play them. They sit next to the larger collection of bluray discs I have in the cabinet. I'm not saying I know for sure how things will go, but it hasn't stopped me from watching my HD-DVDs.

[Vigo]

It's not about greed, it's about survival. Movies have always competed with home entertainment. The tv comes out- movies go color. Color tv comes out - movies go widescreen. VCRs come out - studios improve sound quality. Part of he movie experience had always been about offering the consumer something they can't get at home and now they are competing with 55inch hi def screens hooked up to 7.1 sound. 3d is their latest attempt to stay relevant

Avatar is solely the reason for the current 3D boom. 3D has been an ongoing thing in movies for the last 25 years.

Avatar is a factor, but the boom came up before Avatar came out. The boom came about with the CG movie craze. It is stupidly easy to add 3D to a CG movie, and they cashed in as hard as they could on that. Here is a list of the big CG movies that came out in 3D prior to Avatar:

Monster House
The Ant Bully
Open Season
Meet The Robinsons
Bolt
Monsters vs Aliens
Battle for Terra
Up
Ice Age 3
Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs
Toy Story in 3D (3D re-release)
Toy Story 2 in 3D (3D re-release)
A Christmas Carol


But yeah, thanks to avatar, every summer blockbuster now gets crappy fake 3D slapped on it. 

[fallacy]

Avatar is a factor, but the boom came up before Avatar came out. The boom came about with the CG movie craze. It is stupidly easy to add 3D to a CG movie, and they cashed in as hard as they could on that. Here is a list of the big CG movies that came out in 3D prior to Avatar:

Monster House
The Ant Bully
Open Season
Meet The Robinsons
Bolt
Monsters vs Aliens
Battle for Terra
Up
Ice Age 3
Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs
Toy Story in 3D (3D re-release)
Toy Story 2 in 3D (3D re-release)
A Christmas Carol


But yeah, thanks to avatar, every summer blockbuster now gets crappy fake 3D slapped on it.  Angry!

There has been a lot more 3D then that in the last 25 years. Hell I was there as a kid  in 1986 when Captain EO 3D came out in Disnyland.




Avatar is more then a factor. If Avatar never existed I can grantee you 3D tv’s would not exist today.

[Vigo]

Haha, thanks for the MJ link. I forgot that even existed. 

I know there is a lot more 3D movies than my list. I was just pointing out how it became a standard with pretty much all CG movies by 2009. You may be right about the 3D TV thing as well, at least that every tv manufacturer announced they were making a 3D ready TV within months after Avatar's release. It is an inevitable step that they would be taking anyway, but Avatar put everything into motion. 3D video games would probably end up be the eventual driving force if not for avatar.