PSA: Repro Atari 2600 USB joysticks from ThinkGeek/Legacy Engineer don't work...

[alfonzotan]

... if you plug them into a hub [EDIT:  should be passive hub], but only if they're plugged directly into the computer's USB ports [EDIT:  or AC-powered USB hub].  Found that out the hard way after buying a pair of them as accessories for The Cab With No Name, with plans to plug them into a hub on the front of my control panel box.  No dice.

Very disappointing, and really annoying.  These things boil down to five buttons and a USB controller, but they don't work through a hub--Whisky, Tango, Fox?  

ThinkGeek support confirmed it after I contacted them, but there's no warning on either the ThinkGeek page or at legacyengineer.com, so I figured I'd post one here.  ThinkGeek is willing to accept a return, so good for them, but buyer beware...

[mytymaus007]

... if you plug them into a hub, but only if they're plugged directly into the computer's USB ports.  Found that out the hard way after buying a pair of them as accessories for The Cab With No Name, with plans to plug them into a hub on the front of my control panel box.  No dice.

Very disappointing, and really annoying.  These things boil down to five buttons and a USB controller, but they don't work through a hub--Whisky, Tango, Fox? 

ThinkGeek support confirmed it after I contacted them, but there's no warning on either the ThinkGeek page or at legacyengineer.com, so I figured I'd post one here.  ThinkGeek is willing to accept a return, so good for them, but buyer beware...

What type of hub do you have infront of your panel. Im thinking of using a usb panel mount but its an extension of original usb port that gets mounted anywhere on your panel or cab  check out this link let me know if this is something your using


http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=usb+panel+mount+connector&hl=en&client=pub-5942360976771789&oe=ISO-8859-1&prmd=ivns&resnum=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&biw=1024&bih=559&wrapid=tlif130905193832210&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=3349958740379189069&sa=X&ei=PowGTqCBOZS40AHKsbTUCw&ved=0CHkQ8wIwAQ#

[JohnEDollar]

alfonzotan:

Were the USB joysticks plugged in an an active (externally powered) usb hub, or a passive (self powered) hub?

The Joysticks may not be getting enough power to function properly.

(Just a thought.)

- John

[SavannahLion]

alfonzotan:

Were the USB joysticks plugged in an an active (externally powered) usb hub, or a passive (self powered) hub?

The Joysticks may not be getting enough power to function properly.

(Just a thought.)

- John

Probably wouldn't matter. Google it. It's apparently reasonably common with some manufacturers joysticks and other accessories. I wish the reports were more detailed as to what model HUB the searches turn up. Oh well. 

I knew the problem existed with certain configurations. For instance, I don't think any of my PCs recognize the USB keyboard if it's jacked into a HUB (regardless of power/non-power state) before the OS loads. I had always assumed it's due whomever would program the BIOS and whatever profiles they elected to include in the BIOS.

I also have a couple of products here and there that don't play nice with certain hubs or extensions. I always kind of assumed it was due to the hub and always exchanged the hub for another.

But a joystick just flat out not working on a hub? That's like one of Randy's or Andy's products not working with a hub. It's an absurd notion. Hubs are critical to any USB set up.

I'm curious to see if the they're using an off-the-shelf USB IC or if they've done their own USB solution via code. If it's via code, shame on Think Geek and Legacy Engineer for shoving this kind of utter crap on the community and not noting it. I checked both websites and didn't see any mention of hub incompatibilities.

[LeedsFan]

I'm with JohnEDollar in that I reckon it's a power issue. Savannah makes good points too so it would be good to see the OP post an update after trying it out with a powered hub.

[alfonzotan]

They do work with a powered hub.  Still a WTF, given that a double-sized I-Pac4, spinner, trackball and USB light--together!--all work fine without the hub being plugged into AC (yes, I did disconnect them to test the Atari sticks, which still didn't work without AC power).  Like SavannahLion said, it's ridiculous for a device this simple to require a powered hub.  Should be just like plugging in a bare-bones mouse.

Thanks for the replies...

[MTwitty]

I have 5 Legacy Engineering USB Joysticks, and they all function directly connected to the computer and through a hub (Belkin 7-port, powered and un-powered and an i-Rocks 4-port hub, unpowered). The only thing I've noticed is that MAME/MESS doesn't seem to detect them unless they're plugged in before launching the emulator.

But I've only used them on Macs, so it may be a PC issue.

(Just checked again, and they still work, powered and un-powered)

[MonMotha]

A USB device has to specify how much power it takes.  It can ask for up to 500mA, which is the maximum a USB port can provide.  If you use an unpowered hub, that 500mA has to be shared amongst everything you plug in, including the hub itself.  If a device asks for more power than is available, the OS will tell it "no can do - don't power up" and refuse to fully enumerate/connect it.

This is all well and good, except that many devices just ask for 500mA, even if they only need a tiny fraction of it.  It'll work fine...until you use an unpowered hub.  So while it's doubtful that the joystick actually requires a powered hub because it actually needs the power, it may be asking for it, and the computer says "not available, sorry 'bout ya."

Unfortunately, there's not a ton you can do about this other than asking the vendor to fix their device.  It's generally a simple change (just change one number).  If someone cared enough, they could probably even patch the firmware binary, assuming one can rip a copy off of the thing, but this is far from a simple task.