Anyone using mini ITX atom boards?

[syph007]

I started on a bartop, and this little board sure looks sweet.  I imagine it should run most of the MAME games just fine.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=13-131-663

Just needs ram and it's good to go, low power and heat seems nice... I'm close to ordering but I was curious to see if anyone else had any experience with these.

[Nacimroc]

I used an atom board in a jukebox last year! Think it was a 1.6 Ghz. Was alot slower than I expected. Only had 2gb of RAM, but that usually doesn't make any difference with the other boards I use! I always think people overdo it with PC's for MAME but I wouldn't be in a rush to try this one out!  It will be interesting to see how it works with MAME! I just bought another for a new jukebox build so it will be interesting to finally see if they are up to it!

[JODY]

I have one in a cab.  Performance is slower than needed but I think most of that is due to only having 512MB of RAM.  Really need 1GB+.  I'm running XP Pro at 1024x768 and it barely handles Mame running Star Wars (it is a Star Wars cab).  Does better with older versions (back to .118 or so don't recall exactly).  Would handle many older games fine.  I prefer a faster PC though just to get faster bootup time, better menu response, etc.  I'm sure I could optimize it further by removing some Windows tasks but have not looked into it.

[lilshawn]

the bus speeds on the atom boards is a real bottleneck.

i had an intel made board (D510 or something)

even at a 1.6ghz dual core with hyperthreading enabled... it's was over twice as slow than my single core amd64 @ 2ghz

it went back 

[MonMotha]

The "desktop" Atoms are a real disappointment.  The only thing they've really got going for them is that they're cheap (you can get a D510MO mobo w/ integrated CPU at Fry's for ~$75).  They're slow, and they completely lack power management!  My Core 2 Duo laptop (including the monitor) can actually draw less than my little Atom based machine at idle.  I wouldn't call them "high power" (my system takes ~14-19W), but without power management, you can't get them nearly as low as I'd like.  For a simple little jukebox, it should be fine, and if you're willing to futz around and get all the hardware decoding working, you may be able to play video on it.  Otherwise, they're kinda useless.

Note that, due to the Atom's design, the clock speed cannot be at all compared to a modern CPU.  They compare more closely in clock speed to an original Pentium or maybe a Pentium II/III.

[syph007]

Ok, spending more for more performance seems prudent then.  I still want the small form factor but I'll have to pick a board that can take a modern cpu.  I have one of those pico psu left over from another project that im hoping to use to keep it quiet. 

[Bender]

I'm using a couple of Asus eee netbooks for some Mame projects and they have integrated video w/an Atom chip and they run most things (say up to 1995) beautifully, haven't done much testing on CHD games though

seems like Lokesen is pretty happy with his in the Nanocade (Mini-ITX board - Intel D510MO)

[syph007]

I do have an asus eee netbook as well that has an atom processor.   Assuming the desktop boards had at least the same performance I could give it a try.  Anyone know what games would be fair to expect to be able to run at 100% ?  Maybe neo geo ones?  I dont care about playing the 3dish fighters at all.

[ark_ader]

Hack a $15 Xbox.

[Bender]

Metalslug and Sunset Riders (2 of my favs) play fine on mine  
oh yeah I did put 2Gb of ram in there and it did make difference just FYI
and I'm running mame.129

[DCsegaDH]

I was thinking about getting one of these boards, but it look like using an old Pentium 4 3.0 ghz is better. Does anyone know if the mini ITX atom boards are better than a P4 3.0 ghz on a normal motherboard?  BTW I'm running Mame version 141, but it's on a different PC right now.

[LeedsFan]

I used a mini ITX board using Atom 330 processor in this project:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=111218.0

It plays all the classics perfectly fine with no problems. The board you linked to looks slightly more powerful at 1.8GHz (mine is 1.6GHz) so assuming the onboard graphics are at least the same then it should be good to go. Of course at that price it's not exactly cheap. Depends how much you need the small form factor. I would tend to agree that an old Pentium 4 would be just as good.

[BobA]

Using an Intel D525MW ITX at 1.8 Ghz and it plays all the classics and neogeo game just fine.  Also does a good job with video playback.   Only disadvantage is that is uses SODIMM to reduce the board size but the laptop memory costs about the same as desktop DDR3 right now.  Using Tiny XP so it boots very fast.  Power consumption is minimal and there is no fan.

[EightBySix]

Was just looking at these, but I read that their post routine is quite slow. Can anyone tell me what post times they get (I'm running dos, so don't care about total boot time)

[BobA]

Total boot time is 20 seconds Post is about 6 seconds.

[EightBySix]

Thanks boba. That's not too bad actually

[syph007]

Using an Intel D525MW ITX at 1.8 Ghz and it plays all the classics and neogeo game just fine.  Also does a good job with video playback.   Only disadvantage is that is uses SODIMM to reduce the board size but the laptop memory costs about the same as desktop DDR3 right now.  Using Tiny XP so it boots very fast.  Power consumption is minimal and there is no fan.

Cool, I had planned on using TinyXP as well.  What about screen res, the monitor I'm using has a native res of 1680×1050.  Would it be able to drive that screen size ok? 

[migraineman]

I've got a Zotac NF610I-K-E Mini-ITX motherboard with a Celeron E3300.  I'm running FC15, Xfce, and the nVidia kernel driver for the onboard GeForce 7050.  Handles D&D Tower of Doom without issue - was playing that a couple of days ago with the video bezel enabled.  I couldn't do that on my previous machine which was an Athlon XP 3200+.   

[BobA]

Using an Intel D525MW ITX at 1.8 Ghz and it plays all the classics and neogeo game just fine.  Also does a good job with video playback.   Only disadvantage is that is uses SODIMM to reduce the board size but the laptop memory costs about the same as desktop DDR3 right now.  Using Tiny XP so it boots very fast.  Power consumption is minimal and there is no fan.

Cool, I had planned on using TinyXP as well.  What about screen res, the monitor I'm using has a native res of 1680×1050.  Would it be able to drive that screen size ok? 

Running my screen at 1280 x 1024 which is perfect for mame.   Have never connected a wide screen monitor.

[lilshawn]

Screen res doesn't seem to matter, the one I had seemed to be the same whether at 800x600 or 1280x1024. Its the processor buss speed that is the real issue. Like I mentioned... Something that has 4 "virtual" cores ran slower than a single core of a similar speed.

I think it comes down to just a bad design. Small yes, but compatible... No.

If you need power/horsepower, just go with a regular ATX but if size is a REAL issue, the mini ATX could be the answer.

[MonMotha]

It's not the bus speed in most cases (which is usually 533MHz on these ITX boards - comparable to an old Core2).  The Atom has plenty of memory bandwidth for most applications.  Besides, MAME isn't exactly hurting for memory bandwidth on anything resembling a modern PC.

The issue is that the Atom's CPU core is VERY simple.  It's strictly in-order, and I believe it can only issue one instruction per clock per thread.  While these are dual core and hyperthreaded, this means that it can only attain an IPC of, at best, 4, and that's if you've got 4 threads running that just happen to use completely different parts of the two cores.  A Pentium 3 can pull that off on a single core without hyperthreading, and it supports out-of-order execution.

Figure a 1.6GHz Atom is about like having a 1.6GHz Pentium (original) with modern SSE instructions.  While it would be 16 times faster than a 100MHz Pentium of yore, and you've got two of 'em (2 cores) a 1.6GHz Core i7 will kick the everloving butt out of it, even though it's got the same clock speed, since it can do so much more in one clock cycle.

Some of the modern ARMs they're throwing in cell phones and tablets are actually capable of more advanced instruction scheduling (minimal out-of-order issue, and they're superscalar) than these Atoms, and their starting to get the clock speeds comparable.  And they do it all while drawing about 1/6th the power of what an Atom solution does and at similar price.  Intel just has no idea how to make a small, low cost, low power CPU.  They're great on the high end, but they just have no experience on the low end.

Note that you can get mini-ITX boards that take "conventional" CPUs and offer conventional CPU sockets.  You can't use a really power hungry CPU on them, since there's no way to heatsink the 80W+ monsters, but you can usually put a dual core ~2GHz Phenom II or similar on them.  That'll kick the crap out of any Atom based board in the same formfactor, albeit at 3-4x the cost and about 5-6x the power consumption.

[Corbo]

You can still get low heat/low power without going down the Atom route.  Take a look at the Zotak ITX boards, I'm running a Zotak 9300 with a core2duo 2.6 and 4gb RAM.  Not cutting edge but much quicker than an Atom.  I've removed the fan from the CPU heatsink as it's in a small case, and mounted a 120m case fan near to it which is quiet.  I'm using an external laptop power supply and a 160w picopsu.



I've had an Atom in the past and unless you're only running older games I wouldn't be able to live with the performance trade off.

(p.s. yes I know my DC hyperspin theme isn't working correctly yet)

[syph007]

Hmm thanks for the info, I think a mini ITX with normal cpu socket is the way I'm going then.  They cost a bit more, but size is the most important for me, I need small form factor to fit in the bartop.

I'm liking this board:

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121507

with this 35watt cpu

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116394&Tpk=i3-2100T

I know that's alot for a cpu, but the 35 watts is appealing. I have a 120 watt pico psu I want to use, and not max out.

[RyoriNoTetsujin]

You shouldn't have any issues cooling an i3 with the stock cooler, but just in case, a word of warning: If you're planning on using an aftermarket heatsink on the CPU, just know that most of them (1155 or 1156 "compatible") are NOT going to fit properly on a mini-ITX board.

On the 3 or 4 1155 chipset mini-ITX boards I've looked at (and I own this one http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157238) there are solder points, and sometimes even small chips on the BACK side of the board that will be in the way of a normal aftermarket heatsink's footprint. Especially if they use a back plate of some kind... I learned this the hard way.

Basically, you need to either be prepared to mod the heatsink mount, or be very sure that you're purchasing a heatsink that uses Intel's pushpin style mounting.  The pushpin type (basically all of intel's stock coolers) are safe.

Also, are you planning on actually using that PCI-E slot? Again, be careful with the heatsink selection.  The socket is so close to that slot that many will overlap and render that slot useless... again, I learned that the hard way with my i5 build...

[syph007]

You shouldn't have any issues cooling an i3 with the stock cooler, but just in case, a word of warning: If you're planning on using an aftermarket heatsink on the CPU, just know that most of them (1155 or 1156 "compatible") are NOT going to fit properly on a mini-ITX board.

On the 3 or 4 1155 chipset mini-ITX boards I've looked at (and I own this one http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157238) there are solder points, and sometimes even small chips on the BACK side of the board that will be in the way of a normal aftermarket heatsink's footprint. Especially if they use a back plate of some kind... I learned this the hard way.

Basically, you need to either be prepared to mod the heatsink mount, or be very sure that you're purchasing a heatsink that uses Intel's pushpin style mounting.  The pushpin type (basically all of intel's stock coolers) are safe.

Also, are you planning on actually using that PCI-E slot? Again, be careful with the heatsink selection.  The socket is so close to that slot that many will overlap and render that slot useless... again, I learned that the hard way with my i5 build...

All good points, thanks!  Did you end up finding an aftermarket heatsync, or did you do a mod?  Im hoping I can get away with the stock one.  I didnt have any plans to use the pci-e slot, so I wasn't too worried about that part.

[Corbo]

I've got an aftermarket Zalman one on mine with the bracket on the underside.  It fits fine, but I guess I was lucky, I can see how a slightly different shaped one wouldn't fit with the various heatsinks and capacitors around socket.

[RyoriNoTetsujin]

All good points, thanks!  Did you end up finding an aftermarket heatsync, or did you do a mod?  Im hoping I can get away with the stock one.  I didnt have any plans to use the pci-e slot, so I wasn't too worried about that part.

I bought the Hypermaster 212+ at the same time I bought the motherboard.  Basically I took a risk, custom cut some neoprene spacers, and installed the heatsink without the backplate.  On the ASRock board, there's already a small back plate as part of the socket assembly, so I'm not terribly worried about the board flexing due to the weight of the 'sink.  The i5-2500K I have under there tops out at 55C on 100% load... so I think the 'sink is working!

That said, I don't think the Hypermaster will work for you if you're trying for something low-profile!    I say go with the stock cooler, and then if that doesn't satisfy you, I'd say take a look at the Scythe Big Shuriken: lower profile, better than stock cooling, pretty damn quiet, and not too expensive.  If you go that route, though, space again becomes a premium: you can't use RAM with heatsinks, and say goodbye to using that PCI-E slot...

[D_Harris]

I have a Via EPIA-933AFIC Mini-ITX motherboard, 933 MHz, 512 MB

And a case for it:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811153113

They've been gathering dust for the last two years and I want get back to it.

The idea was to build a little MAME unit for when I went on the road and I figured that since I only play classic era games, all produced between '79 - '85, something like this shouldn't be a problem.

1) Does anyone have any recommendations for a 15" LCD monitor and more importantly a hard drive that is not a power hog?

2) Also, I cannot find good documentation on the model I have, even though I have all the included documentation that came in the box. In fact, I can't even find a picture of it on the internet. (Mine has a TV-out).

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

[RyoriNoTetsujin]

1) Does anyone have any recommendations for a 15" LCD monitor and more importantly a hard drive that is not a power hog?

For the monitor I would say hit up Craigslist or Freecycle. All of NYC's Freecycle community is highly active, including SI. (My gf is a moderator, so be nice and follow the rules! LOL.)  Since you're looking for a 4:3 monitor (and everybody is upgrading to 16:9 and 16:10 these days) you should have one pretty quickly.

As for the hard drive, if budget isn't an issue, get an IDE solid state drive (they're out there)... otherwise you're looking at a 2.5" laptop drive.  Silentpcreview.com has a great write-up on recommended hard drives. I bring that up because, generally, quiet parts use less power.

[Donkbaca]

you can probably find a 15 incher pretty cheap on CL/freecycle.

As for the drive.  I would say just use a SD card reader like Vigo did in his SNES build.  I would PM him for details.  You aren't going to need a whole lot of space for what you plan on putting on there

[yotsuya]

you can probably find a 15 incher pretty cheap on CL/freecycle.

As for the drive.  I would say just use a SD card reader like Vigo did in his SNES build.  I would PM him for details.  You aren't going to need a whole lot of space for what you plan on putting on there

I recently (last weekend) got a 19" CRT and a 21" CRT for $5 each on CL. You just have to keep looking. 

[D_Harris]

1) Does anyone have any recommendations for a 15" LCD monitor and more importantly a hard drive that is not a power hog?

For the monitor I would say hit up Craigslist or Freecycle. All of NYC's Freecycle community is highly active, including SI. (My gf is a moderator, so be nice and follow the rules! LOL.)  Since you're looking for a 4:3 monitor (and everybody is upgrading to 16:9 and 16:10 these days) you should have one pretty quickly.

As for the hard drive, if budget isn't an issue, get an IDE solid state drive (they're out there)... otherwise you're looking at a 2.5" laptop drive.  Silentpcreview.com has a great write-up on recommended hard drives. I bring that up because, generally, quiet parts use less power.

I've been a member of the group "StatenIslandNYFreecycle" for two or three years, but never bothered because I don't know how the site is supposed to work. But I'll keep that in mind.

If you wait long enough you can get a free monitor via Craigslist. I threw away my last 15" LCD monitor when the power supply, which used to get hot enough to cook an egg, died.

Nevertheless, if there was a way to just use one of my 8GB flash drives without have to install a hard drive, that would be ideal. (And as I mentioned the EPIA ITX motherboard I have has a TV-Out.

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.