Ferris wheel panel

[Xochi]

Here is a really old pic for a preview....

Right there you can see what I consider overkill.  

If it makes all y'all feel any better, my wife considers spending months building any cabinet at all "just to play computer games on" to be overkill.

[cobelli]

Wow, I never expected my idea to be so well recieved Just to clarify, I am not planning on building this anytime soon, as my cab is almost finished and there is no allowance for such a thing, so anyone out there crazy enough, please give it a go Also, my idea was inspired by lilwolf's, just to give credit where it is due. I think you guys have it right on the garage door trakcs, that was my first thought too, but I couldn't think how to move them. Another point to consider is definately wiring. I think wireless would definately be the option to go here, however, barring that, I think the panels should disconnect. Looking at the pic, the blue is the front arcade wall and the grren the cp. The red would be like a molex connecter that connects as the panel is swung into position. Another important thing to consider is the actual swinging into place. It could just be done by hand, but why? lol. Another crazy solution to this crazy project is to have a second track and wheel system. The track is the light blue in the "f" pictures and the wheels are red. The second track is also on a hinge indicated by dark green. As f2 shows, when the panels are rotated in one direction, the red wheel catches the light blue track and is rotated up into its spot. However, when moving in the other direction, the hinged track is moved out of the way alowing the panels to rotate. Also, in order for the second set of wheels to catch properly, the panel must be slightly tilted, so you would some sort of restrictor. Also, the wheels would need to be on the outside edge of the control panel which would mean a gab between the cp and sides. furthermore, the two tracks would have to overlap, therefore one set of wheels would need to stick out more than the other. One way to help the problem would be to route the black track into the sides. Anyway, just something to think about

Cobelli

[1UP]

Whew -- good luck on getting this to work.  I've got a feeling it's going to be way too complex to be worthwhile, if it works at all.  I really believe the best rule of thumb is KISS -- Keep It Simple, Stupid!  

However, I guess anything is possible, and I do remember being told long ago by Xiaou2 himself, that it would be impossible to fit 3 control panels together in a rig any smaller than his, since he used the smallest possible configuration required to keep the bottoms of the controls from bumping into each other inside.  I guess I should thank him -- anyone who knows me will tell you that being told something can't be done almost guarantees that I'll do it!  

BTW, I STRONGLY recommend against wireless controls, as they usually have a slight lag in feedback -- not something you want for a game machine.  Also, I can just see you replacing batteries on 6 different panels every week.  You might want to rethink this...

[Lilwolf]

If you wanted to make it REALLY slick!

You would have a modular plug in for the controls at the front of the control panel.

So when you slide it in and forward, it plugs in that control panel!

IE it ONLY has one plugged in at a time!  

Gets rid of all the wiring issues... Just need to find a pluging scheme that will work in the area involved.

[tmasman]

If you wanted to make it REALLY slick!
You would have a modular plug in for the controls at the front of the control panel.
So when you slide it in and forward, it plugs in that control panel!
IE it ONLY has one plugged in at a time!  
Gets rid of all the wiring issues... Just need to find a pluging scheme that will work in the area involved.

You guys are going to get me in trouble...
I'm starting to think this is doable for my scratch-built cab... I like the idea of panels getting plugged in when you bring them up... That would definately solve all the wiring problems.

I'm not sure about what I would do to get the lot of them moving though...
I like wood-working, so if I could just get a decent set of plans laid out then I could do this...
Although I'll probably come to my sences before I actually start on it... This would definately be a HUGE project to make sure it worked properly. But I am enticed... I was originally thinking of rotating panels right-left instead of 1UPs front-back. I've got that config laid out, but I would rather have 4 or 5 panels... hm...

[grafixmonkey]

If you wanted to make it REALLY slick!

You would have a modular plug in for the controls at the front of the control panel.

So when you slide it in and forward, it plugs in that control panel!

IE it ONLY has one plugged in at a time!  

Gets rid of all the wiring issues... Just need to find a pluging scheme that will work in the area involved.

Hmmm.   After working with Molex plugs, I'd say those are far too hard to plug and unplug for you to be able to slide the panel back into one.  Some real easy soldering and a PCB edge plug might get you going great though!  

Get several PCBs with edge-plugs on them, and the matching socket for them to slide into.  Then all you have to do is solder your control wires to the contacts for the edge connector, and solder your ground wires in too.  Sandwich the pcb between some wood and bolt it down using unused portions, and it should go in great, just like a nintendo cartridge.

You can even have a portion of the edge go to an optipac and another portion go to an ipac, and have different ipac pins for different joystick configs - like the Toobin config or the Crazy Climber config.

[Howard_Casto]

i think cobelli has a much better grasp of my conveyor belt idea than the rest of you.  I see one flaw with his plan though.  At each corner there would be a rod going from one side of the cabinet to the next.  

Now there are ways you could get around this.  The best method would be to have two seperate, yet identical sets sets of chains and gears.  One one the inside left of the cab and one on the inside right.  The control panels could be attached to thin steel rods welded to a link on the chains.  The weld would obviously have to be on the outside of the chains though, so it wouldn't get caught on the gears.

There are two problems with this method though.  One your chains have to be dead on in sync with each other.  Two your drive system must distribute power to each chain equally.  If these things aren't met then it would bind horribly.  

Also your panels would have to be fairly light so as not to sag the chain and bog down the motor.    You could put a lot of tension on the chain, but that might be hard on the cab's shell.

BUT with that being said I think it's extremely doable.  

Adding on to some of the other's ideas:  (continued in the next thread).  

[tmasman]

You wouldn't have to have 2 motors!
Just a single drive axle w/ 2 gears to drive the 2 chains right?
At least that's what I'm picturing...

[Xiaou2]

 Hmm,  the conveyor-cab is an interesting idea... but from the drawings ive seen so far... its far from workable.

  The major flaw so far is the depth and dimmentions of the panels themselves.    

  While a typical 2 player fighter setup may only be about 3 inches deep...  Anything with a nice steering wheel or even some other specialty controls may run over 5 inches in depth.

 You will need plenty of clearence as your not just dealing with the 5 inch underpanel... but the 8 inch or so joystick/wheel..ect that stick out.  

  The panels will weight quite a bit.. so be sure so think about chain-sag, and pure chain and chain-link strength.

  DO your best to draw out clearly and in great detail each assembly before you go blasting into action.  Even if your design changes... the initail designs will help guide oyu through some nasty pitfalls.

  Good luck - and have fun : )

  Id give it a shot.. but my time is pretty tight.   Who knows tho... maybe Ill catch a break and throw somethign out...

 

[Howard_Casto]

Ok where was I?

Oh yeah.  

You remember where someone suggested putting the computer in a shelf in the middle?  Great idea.  Lets add to it....  Buy yourself a lifting arm, and two usb gamepads with at least 8 buttons each.  

Take the lifting arm (a ram would be best, but they are expensive so use your imagination) and put it on the shelf at a 45 degree angle so it points to where the panels would be when in use.  Now with the flip of the switch you can have the cab move the panel into position for you....  

But let's take it a step further.....  
You know where each panel is on a rod?  Well when the rod on the panel gets towards that upper front corner it'll be in the correct position to move up into place.  So put a long bladed leaf switch in the path of the rod at just the right position so it'll be tripped when the panel needs to stop.  

But we aren't done yet.....

Take that first usb pad and hack it.  When the panel is lifted into place the wiring harness would plug in and it would also plug into a terminal block that has all of the usb pads inputs, but open.  Each panel would have a different button closed on it's end of the terminal block, thus telling software which panel is currently being used.  Panel 1 would trip button 1, panel 2 button 2 ect.......  The last button would be reserved for that leaf switch we put in place.  This would let software know how many panels have went by and when a panel was ready to be put in place.  You install two more leafs so that one will trip when the ram is all the way down and another will trip when it's completely extended.  Attach them to the pad as well.

So then you take the first, hacked, usb pad and give it a super high id number in windows, so it won't interfere with your games.  (if nothing else you could make a kill switch and then nobody would mess with your panels too )

You ask your local brilliant programmer (hint hint)  to help you and he writes a program that keeps track of what panel you are on and how to move them.

What will happen is you'll use the second usb pad to control the rig, so you could hack it into a nice little menu mounted at the bottom of the monitor or whatever.   You wire the ram and your belt motor up to the parallel port as your programmer instructed you.

So everything is setup, you have your panel software running in the background and decide to switch to panel 4.  This is what would happen.....  (You are on panel 2 )  You press the 4th button on the unhacked "control" pad.  The software checks to see if a panel is in place and if the ram is engaged.  As both of those buttons are depressed it knows panel 2 is in place. The software trips a simple switch on the parallel port, which engages the ram in reverse.  It keeps going down until the leaf at the bottom of the ram is pressed and then it knows to stop and thus cuts the signal.  The chain motor is started.... it knows it is currently on panel 2 and thus only needs to pass one panel.  The motor starts and panel 3 goes by, tripping the leaf switch with it's support rod.  The software counter increases by one and as it's nearing the destinaton panel it goes into "high alert" mode.  The INSTANT the switch is tripped again the motor is turned off (as the drive is geared so that it's REALLY stiff, there is no "coasting" after the motor shuts off).  Before starting the ram the software checks to make sure the switch is indeeed pressed.  If not it'll try to adjust, much like a printer head does.  When it's satisfied, it'll start the ram until the leaf at the top of the ram's path is tripped, telling the software the panel is in place.  The software checks to see if the panel's button is tripped.  It is and all is well.  If not then it would give you an error and tell you that the mechanics are jammed or something.  

The cab automatically Switched the panels for you!

Complicated?  You bet cha... but as this rig would already insainely complex a person might as well do it right.    

[cobelli]

I just have to say, nicely done Howard! You branched off my insane ramblings and came up with something that will actually work! Kudos to you

Cobelli

[hooded_paladin]

If I understand molex connectors or any connector of that sort, you have to PUSH IN the pins.  The action needed to swivel in and connect a control panel would not just be to swing up, but to swing up in one position and slide down into another.

Complicated?  You betcha.  You guys can try it, but I'm out.

[Aceldamor]

You remember where someone suggested putting the computer in a shelf in the middle?  Great idea.  

Well thanks HC.....you had interesting ideas yourself.

Hey 1up....I bet you can't do this. (This way based on his previous posts, we're assured he'll actually try)  

[1UP]

I bet you can't do this. (This way based on his previous posts, we're assured he'll actually try)  

Well, that only applies if it's something I really wanted to do in the first place -- you can't get me into a gunfight just by calling me yella', I'm not Marty McFly!    I'm no Doc Brown either, so I'm staying clear of this engineering nightmare...

A few suggestions though.  I don't think you'd want to totally surround your PC with control panels, or it's going to be a beeyotch getting in there to work on it!  Also, don't forget that the PC needs a power cord, so somehow you've got to run one past all those panels without anything catching.  Likewise, your conveyor needs power, so you're at least going to have to route a groove into one of the cab sides for a power line to run through (could be a powerstrip to run everything.)  Also consider whether you're going to want a network cable or anything else running out from your PC.  Lastly, you're gonna want to get at the bottom of your CPs at some point, so better make them easily removable from the chain.

Good luck, I'm interested to see what comes of this, but something tells me it's not going to be any time soon...  You've got your work cut out for ya.

[Howard_Casto]

If I understand molex connectors or any connector of that sort, you have to PUSH IN the pins.  The action needed to swivel in and connect a control panel would not just be to swing up, but to swing up in one position and slide down into another.

Complicated?  You betcha.  You guys can try it, but I'm out.

Yeah these wouldn't work.... I'm not sure the correct name for them, but on my old 92 camaro the rear hatach gets some of it's power via bladed connection points.  basicallly it's bare strips of metal surface mounted on both the edge of the hatch where it closes and the hatch well that it closes into.  That sounds like it would never work, but if the door that's closing is sturdy enough and the points are fairly big it does quite well.

A do it yourself solution would be to figure out how many points you need and get a bunch oversized pcbs printed out, with bare metal leads, similar to a jamma edge connector, but on it's side instead of up and down.  The base of the cab would have an identical pcb but with springed blades (like you see in a battery compartment) soldered on top of the points.  Then you would have some margin for error and there isn't any problem plugging the stuff in.  Probably cost a person about 20 bucks to get the pcbs printed out.  

The real investment would be the time it took to solder all those springed blades on.    

Again, this wouldn't be for the timid at all.  I'm just saying if someone wants to be joe cool and make the uber cab, this idea of cobelli's would work.  It would simply take a butt-load of effort and tlc.  

[Lilwolf]

btw, did anyone consider backing this up to a closet!

Image in you had it up to a closet that you don't use... Then you could get another 10 - 20 control panels added

The beauty of conveyers!  Your only limited to the amount of room your willing to sacrifice!

[Howard_Casto]

Well, that only applies if it's something I really wanted to do in the first place -- you can't get me into a gunfight just by calling me yella', I'm not Marty McFly!    

It's chicken, nobody calls him chicken. (He was only called yeller in bttf3 by maddog, just to mix things up a bit.)

[unclet]

Here you go....plenty of room for a computer on the bottom near the front of the cab.   Easy access to the computer as well (simply open the front cabinet door)Also, could have a coin door now as well....  

No computer or wiring problem relating to the computer or Ethernet connections, etc....  The wires from the connector used to plug in the "active" control panel can run down the front of the cabinet and into the computer no problem

[Xiaou2]

your panels drawn are too thin.   try re-drawing that to scale with a 9inch control depth for a supersprint wheel, or starwars controller, or a tron stick.   none of those would clear the cabinet front as shown in your pic.

 Remember that even a happs stick is almost 6 inches long from top to base bottom.

 

[unclet]

It would seem the depth of the cabinet would need to be around 50"        

I think most people would live with a deep cabinet instead of a wide one though.....although dont ask my wife .... she would prefer not to have one at all  

Although it might be a better design to just have 4 panels instead of the 8 pictured

[CitznFish]

If I understand molex connectors or any connector of that sort, you have to PUSH IN the pins.  The action needed to swivel in and connect a control panel would not just be to swing up, but to swing up in one position and slide down into another.

Complicated?  You betcha.  You guys can try it, but I'm out.

Yeah these wouldn't work.... I'm not sure the correct name for them, but on my old 92 camaro the rear hatach gets some of it's power via bladed connection points.  basicallly it's bare strips of metal surface mounted on both the edge of the hatch where it closes and the hatch well that it closes into.  That sounds like it would never work, but if the door that's closing is sturdy enough and the points are fairly big it does quite well.

A do it yourself solution would be to figure out how many points you need and get a bunch oversized pcbs printed out, with bare metal leads, similar to a jamma edge connector, but on it's side instead of up and down.  The base of the cab would have an identical pcb but with springed blades (like you see in a battery compartment) soldered on top of the points.  Then you would have some margin for error and there isn't any problem plugging the stuff in.  Probably cost a person about 20 bucks to get the pcbs printed out.  

The real investment would be the time it took to solder all those springed blades on.    

Again, this wouldn't be for the timid at all.  I'm just saying if someone wants to be joe cool and make the uber cab, this idea of cobelli's would work.  It would simply take a butt-load of effort and tlc.  

Hot rodders use a trick little connector that sends power through the doors (when they are closed) to items in the back. I can't find it online right now, but basically it's a bunch of nubs on one side (like the top of an AA battery) and there is another corresponding plate with flat areas. when the door is closed they are touching and a connection is there. When the door is open the connection is broken.  I think this would be an excellent connection for what you guys are discussing. The plates for the control panel can slide into place and make the connections..

Something similar to this but there are 3 rows of 5...maybe more :

= |
= |
= |  <--Plate 2
= |
= |

^
Plate 1


Edit: found a similar item, but I think they make ones with more connections.. I guess you could stack these if you wanted to.

Haywire




"Wide Contacts eliminates the need for any wiring between door and door jamb. Contacts will handle up to 60 amps and can be remounted anywhere on the door jamp, not on just the hinge side."

[Nannuu]

Aaaarrrggghhhh!  Internet is down for a week and I miss all of the fun stuff!

Alright then, here is my take on this so far.  Albeit probably missing A TON of stuff.  This is basically in addition to what has been added previously.

I tried to make a realistic scale model of what could be done.  My conveyor belt/chaing is 18"x24" (which could be increased by losing the casters).  The control panel is 10" deep without the wiring connections up front.

I think you could make the connections to the encoder rather simple by using screws and homemade leaf switches.  The wiring could attach to the screws, then once the panel rotates into position, the screw heads press the leaf contacts which are connected to an Ipac (or other encoder).

This design only allows for the conveyor to rotate in one direction.  But it would allow for the motor to adjust the panel into position.

I've gone with the fulcrum on the bottom side of the panel for ease (or so I think) so that the panel can more easily be flush with the cp when in playing position.  But doing so will probably make the panel sit at an angle so you could add a guide at the front of the cabinet to pull the panel to the correct angle before the second motor rotates it into position.  Does that make sense?  I created an animated gif but I accidentally made it too big to post (1 mb), here is the link:

http://www.willyliliana.com/mame%20cabinet/conveyor.gif

I would think that the second motor that lifts the panel could use two arms, one on each side just so that it doesn't twist the panel when lifting, it may be better on the chain that way?  And maybe the same with the first motor as well?  Don't know much about motors.....

By the looks of what I have here steering wheels and such would not be so fun to try and add......

Hope the diagrams make sense!

[Nannuu]

more...

[Nannuu]

top..

[mpm32]

Nice Diagram.  Would the panel lift bar and the top right gear unit be stron enough for gameplay?  i.e. leaning and playing?  Maybe some kind of lock bar that slides into place to lock the panel in so its strong?

[tmasman]

...I created an animated gif but I accidentally made it too big to post (1 mb)...

I shrunk it...  

[Lilwolf]

GREAT IMAGES!

I think get rid of the lifter motor and put a mechanical locking arm.   Should help simplify parts.

and also, I think you can get more control panels on it.  You should look into how many.  If you can get 5+ its interesting.  If with all the other stuff it ends up really being 4... then it's not.

[Nannuu]

Hey thanks Tsman!

Like I said I don't know squat about motors but I would imagine that you could get something sturdy enough for gameplay but also may be too expensive?

I was thinking of maybe solenoids to hold it in place while playing?  I believe someone mentioned that for Unclets rotating cab as well.

Well this "design" has 5 panels and you may be able to squeeze one more on there if you made them smaller or got rid of the casters on the bottom.

[1UP]

Well, that only applies if it's something I really wanted to do in the first place -- you can't get me into a gunfight just by calling me yella', I'm not Marty McFly!    

It's chicken, nobody calls him chicken. (He was only called yeller in bttf3 by maddog, just to mix things up a bit.)

You don't need to school me on BTTF!  I've got the DVDs...  I just liked that example because it was probably the stupidest thing Marty did on a dare...

[Xiaou2]

 Using an additional frontal chain set  you can make a bi-directonal system - without the 'not so reliable'  lift & lock that is shown.

 Ill draw up some pix when i get a chance

[GamingGreg]

"Whoa, you guys are just crazy!  

It is amazing how fast something can go from simple idea to virtual prototype around here.  If someone wants to build this, I say let them try and wish them luck.  However this is way out of my league. (Too complex and probably prone to problems)

HC,  I'm also interested in seeing your "uber yoke" that you mentioned earlier.  Please let us all know when it's done.

[Howard_Casto]

Nice diagrams.  I also concur with the others that the lifting arm wouldn't hold up though.  Although they are expensive (around 100 bucks or more) I would think a hydrolic ram would be the best method.  The way hydrolics work it would be physically impossible to push it back down without releasing the valve.  

[unclet]

Instead of having all of this complicated stuff, here is a couple of ideas:

- The motor to rotate through control panels is cool, but to save money why not just have a crank on the outside of you cab which you turn to get to the next control panel.  Crank it either way so you can rotate through control panels in either direction.

- Instead of using the lifting arm (which people are saying is expensive and not that sturdy for real gameplay), why not rotate your control panel and rest it on top of the existing wood for your cabinet front and back.   This will give you the support you need.   The cabinet front and back (see pic ... due to this bad description) could move out of the way via a hinge while you rotate your control panel into place.

Keep in mind I did not show the wiring for the control panel and how it attaches/connects but this should not be a problem to figure out.

- Also, each control panel get have a handle on it so when the control panel is cranked into position, the player can reach down grab the handle and pull the control panel up.  Once the control panel is raised high enough, the cabinet front and back pieces (can be dropped back down into place and the control panel can then be rested on top of them.

[Howard_Casto]

Because that would remove the automatic feature (which is the coolest part of this design) and just getting the gears running correctly is going to cost a butt-load anyway.  

*edit*

didn't see the solenoid comments.....  that would work fine...  After the "locked" leaf was tripped they could lock the panel in place.  Steel rods from them would hold it no problem.  

[SirPoonga]

Cool idea, but it won't be pretty

I think we need to start a new show called Monster Arcade.

[Xiaou2]

 I luv those monster shows  ^_^      Funny enuff - they just had a monster house episode where they made a 3 panel rotating bartop:

   1 Bar top
   2 shuffle board
   3 chess-checkers & skittle bowl  

 Was cool to see that in action on tv : )

  Also stopped at walmart 2day... and they had a rotating bag system.   like 2 bags per side with 4 sides.  was pretty cool idea.

 
  As for the lift idea... it was to use a 2ndary chain that was geared higher than the rest.   That would then pull a hook that was on the front of the panel up faster - and right into the spot needed to lock.  

 
  However... i started to think about how silly this is...

 I myself think that building a 6 sided beast is good enuff.  If I realy wanted to... i could enclose it in a box shape... and pop a barn door front on it as well as a curtain to cover the top to be more cosmetic...

 but really i could care less.  The thing functions great as is... and is a lot less complicated to build - as well as costing less.   Easier repair and trasport too.


 On another note... i had an idea for those who want to sitdown at thier standup cabs on occassion...   A dual bike seat foldout assembly that sits lodged in the bottom front of the cab.   You simply pull the seat out - then unfold the stablizer leg (under the chair) to the floor.   You could add pedal sets on the floor of the cab too... or maybe even as part of the seat assembly.
 
 
 

[teef two]

I just have to join in this madness with a mad idea of my own.

Okay, stick with it and it just might make sense. The idea is old style jukebox inspired (in a way).

Imagine a cab with a blank control panel that is motor driven to decsend slightly and then pull back into the body of the cab.
You have a series of control panels in a horizontal rack. By pressing a button (on the control panel or software driven) the required assembly slides forward out of the rack and is then lifted upwards by a mechnism (chain or hydraulic ram). The blank panel then slides down and back and the new panel rises from the depths and locks into place. When selecting a new panel it goes back into its rack and the new panel arises to replace it. No need to worry about rotating wires getting tangled or having to plug in the control panel once it is in place. All panels would be connected to a single switch which, depending on the panel that is active, will connect that panel to the pc.

Love to see someone draw this as frankly I lack the time or talent  

[Spaced Invader]

Is it just me or is this idea WAY more complicated than...

worry(ing) about rotating wires getting tangled or having to plug in the control panel once it is in place

[allroy1975]

btw, did anyone consider backing this up to a closet!

Image in you had it up to a closet that you don't use... Then you could get another 10 - 20 control panels added

The beauty of conveyers!  Your only limited to the amount of room your willing to sacrifice!

am I the only one who thought this was hilarious?
Seriously I laughed for like 5 minutes.  

BTW, I've only made my one cab, so I'm not sure....
Is it more fun to build 1 cab and go insane trying to figure out how to get every control panel EVER in it, or to build a few different Control Panels and just swap them out?  

Anyway, I'm amazed at the great ideas you guys have come up with...I just realize I'll never do it.  No matter how good anyone can make it look  

Allroy