Ferris wheel panel

[paigeoliver]

I don't think anyone will ever make a cabinet with ALL the controls. You would need like a dozen differnt control panels on it. So far I haven't seen a proper rotating panel with more than 3 panels.

But, I have a bit of an idea for a "Ferris Wheel" type rotating panel mechanism that would allow for maybe 6 of them.

I am at work, so I can't draw any pictures, but imagine how a ferris wheel works, and how the cars stay facing upwards.

Now, change the cars into control panels. If your monitor was mounted a bit up from the panel, you should have enough clearance to rotate panels into position in front.

Or, it may work better if the panels were on tracks, and could be moved indepently into and out of position.

I am currently sitting on a spinner/top fire panel, a trackball panel,  an analog panel, a T-2 gun panel, and a 4 way panel that I am trying to figure out how to incorporate into a mad rotation system.

Also, can anyone think of a design other than "ferris wheel" or conve that would allow for more than 3 rotating panels.

[crsdawg]

  i've seen some showcase displays at jewerly stores and flea markets that have a similar mechanism to what i think is what your getting at. they have trays that rotate up around  and down on tracks, yet stay level. the ones i've seen are pretty lightweight but might be something to check out and see how they work.
  i see getting the panels stable once they're in position being a problem, nothing that can't be overcome tho.

[Birdtales]

Sounds like wiring would be a nightmare!

[Lilwolf]

Before you spend too much time.... consider this...

you use one control panel 90% of the time... If not more!

How much space you have!

How good you are at building things.  The more complicated... the better chance its not solid.  non-solid control panels make them feel like PC steering wheels that never quite attached to your desk right.

Hot Swappable control panels are easy.  And you can move them out of the way.  And you can build more whenever you get a new part.

3 control panels for many are enought to handle 98% of all the games they will ever want.  So then going with 1ups isn't a bad idea.



....


But... Get it working and looking good... and I'm sure there will be 20 people who will want to copy your design!

I like the idea of a merry go round myself.  Control panels that spin around the main cabinet.  Seems a little more doable...  

[Howard_Casto]

I like the idea of a merry go round myself.  Control panels that spin around the main cabinet.  Seems a little more doable...  

And a little more ugly.    Seriously though, this idea is nothing new, it's just most people figured out it isn't practical, as lilwolf said.  But a tip for you, think less ferris wheel and more conveyor belt.  Remember, the panels only have to be at the proper angle when they get to the front of the cab.  Keeping them level at all times merely adds to the complexity.  They might as well be upside down while they are traveling.  Which brings me to your second problem.  You'll have to make the track automatically reverse when it gets to the last panel or you'll pull the wiring out.  Wiring is going to be a mess btw.  About 80 or so wires each 6+feet long, all of which have to be harnessed in such a way that they are moveable and yet won't get caught in the tracks of the rotating mechanism.  They also have to be secure enough so that they don't work loose from the controls and yet loose enough so they won't break in half from constant binding/unbinding.

[RacerX]

My two (and soon to be 3) panels are hot swappable.  I prefer that approach mainly because I'm not an engineering marvel like 1UP!  I can swap my panels in less than 30 seconds.  I doubt it's all that much faster to rotate from one panel to the next on a six sided ferris wheel type panel, especially if the controls for a particular game you want to play are on the opposite panel from the one you are currently on.

That being said, if you want to tackle this project, I'm sure we would all like to see the results!  I know I'm constantly amazed at the creativity of this community.  

[Lilwolf]

Well just to spend time definding an idea that I had... with little - no thougth... just to be argumentative really  

How about a ferris wheel that goes inside the cab?  So only one on the outside (and some of the ones on the side) are showing.  The rest are under the monitor?

Conveyer belts I can't see being sturdy enought at any location.  Especially if it flips them up/down.  And how many can you get?

This would be one rotating point (lazy susan).  And then something to close it up.  

Sure it would be bigger then hotswapping... But it would be better then some others out there.

[hyiu]

ok... I'm just thinking out loud here....
(may be approachable.... maybe I'm way out...)

I don't know if you guys remember this...
some restaurants... or catering halls....

they have those panels... (ceiling mounted...)
that follows a rail..... hmm.... how to say....

ok.... a pic is worth a thousand words....
(doing a ipc right now...)

ok... you see... using this design.....

you can have multiple panels.....
they slide out to the "common rail".... then slide up vertically... (not slide up flat...) and once you're up.... maybe there's a lock or something to lock it in place....

I don't think wires will be tangled together as long as each panel has its own slot and they return to their slot everytime....

oh of course..... the computer will be lying down flat to give more space for the panels....

but no plugging / unplugging needed.....
just sliding in and out....

I mean..... seems do-able.. (just by thinking....)  

[Xiaou2]

 Did you see the unfinshed panel I started   Has 6 sides and rotates:








 http://xiaou2.homestead.com/arcade.html


  Some have said that it dosnt look that good.. but to me looks are 2ndary to the amount of propper controls.

  However. when I do have time and money to finish it.. I think I will spend a bit more time with making it look a lot better.  Maybe make a square walled unit with the tv built onto it.  Lower the main base, and deco all panels..ect.

  As for making a ferris wheel.. I think you may have more trouble trying to keep them from rocking while playing than if you just clamp the panels to a hex shape as in this design.  

  If you have any q's let me know.

[grafixmonkey]

I think you might have to resort to wireless technology to transmit your controller signals through all the rotating parts and back to your encoder board.  

speaking of which...   there are wireless gamepads, joysticks, keyboards, and mice...   Anyone ever tried to hack them?  Making your own "wireless IPAC" would be pretty ugly.

[Lilwolf]

Wireless keyboards / mice you can forget about.  The chance of not having ghosting issues is about none.

But the gamepad ones should work.  Someone wrote a review about one (Seitak one I think) and said it was really good.  It was the bluetooth one I think.  It was able to keep up in gaming situations.

But expect to play a pretty penny for it.

I think you would be better off to have some extra slack in each wire...  And make it so you cant turn it 360 degrees...  

There will probably be more interested problems with the design then the wiring... Even though it WILL be a factor.

(I'm still curious how your going to flip them over without hitting the screen...  If its low, then it will be far away, it will probably be too low to play on.

Also making sure that the bottom of the control panel doesn't get caught up on the top of the one under it....

[Xiaou2]

all the wires go to the encoder inside ... then out the center pole via a USB cable.  

 (thick strong metal pole with hole in center to allow wires to go thru)

The cab will have a limiter device so you cant turn 360 degrees - thus ripping the wires appart.

[rockhopper]

How many wires in a USB cable?
You could always cut the cable apart and design your own slip rings to transmit the signal.  This way you can spin the whole panel round as much as you want without having to worry about ripping cables.

They'd need to be pretty good though otherwise you'll have huge problems with the connection. There may also be a problem with shielding of the cable. I don't know a great deal about USB cable data transfer, but I could build the mechanical bits.

I know this is going to extreme, but it should be possible, although I doubt if anyone is crazy enough to do this (although building your own arcade machine is pretty crazy itself, so........)

[1UP]

The main problem with any swappable panel setup is how to lock the panels down rigid enough to be playable.  Wiring is secondary, but becomes a problem when you want to mount panels on some moving apparatus.  Almost all the ideas for this (ferris wheel, tank treads, sliding racks etc) neglect to take in consideration either of these problems, and so once pen is actually put to paper, these flights of fancy are quickly abandoned.

It sounds like what you want to do is something like this:



I used the shape of my cab because it's fairly typical profile, but the depth is a little more to fit my rotating setup.  The depth of my cab is about as long as you'd want a cab to be (36") before it's just plain excessive.  Also, my cab is about 6' tall, which is big for a cab, but puts the monitor up higher, which is a consideration here as well.

You can see a lot of problems already, even ignoring the ones listed above.  My CP is at a very typical height (about 34-35"), so I put the main CP here at that location.  This brings the "ring" you need for rotating the panels up so high that it hits the bottom of the monitor.  My monitor is about as high as you'd ever want to mount one, so I doubt you'd want to mount it any higher or your marquee will be nearing the ceiling...

OK, so you could lower the CP a couple inches and still have it somewhat playable (if you stand with your legs spread a bit) but the other CPs are scraping the front and back.  You could make the circle a LITTLE bit smaller, but not much since the free-floating CPs need to clear each other too (they stay level after all.)  This leaves very little room for a PC or anything else inside the cab.  And you can forget about a coin door!  Also, wiring becomes very complex since the circle AND each CP has to turn independently.  You also need a way to weight the panels so they always face the right way.  And there would need to be some doors and panels that open up to let the CPs clear.  With all the opening/closing/latching going on, it'd be faster/easier just use regular swappable panels.

Lastly, you have to think about this thing in 3-D.  There has to be some clearance on the sides of the CPs for the big lazy suzans that suspend the panels.  I would assume at least 1/4" thickness for this.  How do you cover up this gap between the cab sides and the CP ends?

Here's a solution: build TWO 1UP cabs!  

[paigeoliver]

Thanks guys. I didn't really think it would work, but I thought I would throw it out there just in case.

[Howard_Casto]

1up is absolutely correct on all his points, however that's the ferris wheel design, which I've already shot down for you guys, quite frankly it's too complicated, too big and too fidgety.  Change the ferris wheel to a conveyor belt as I suggested and many of the problems go away.  Only wiring and locking the belt remain.  For those of you who live in the coal belt go check out a coal scoop conveyor belt.  They show exactly how it would work.  

To clarify you don't link the panels directly together, you have the width of approx one panel in between.  You put one wheel at the lower back of the cabinet bottom and another right where the control panel pops out.  As the panels flip over at the wheels you merely have to position the wheel so that the panel in front flips over and positions itself at the right angle and lock it into place.  I'd draw pics but i'm too lazy.  

As there isn't any lazy susan, just wheels and shafts, the panels can be butted right against the sides of the cab.  You could do approx 5-6 small panels this way and still have room for a monitor and coin door with minimum interference.  You would need a section of yoru cab in the front to hinge down, so the sticks could get through easily, but it would be small and similar to how 1up does it.  


Of course this is assuming you'll be using rather standard controls.  

Regardless of the method, if you start putting steering wheels and t2 guns on the thing, there physically isn't enough room inside the cab to hold more than one of those and maybe 2 or 3 "regular" panels.  

So just keep that in mind.  If you are wanting a yoke, a steering wheel, a tron stick and ect there simply won't be enough room to house all of that so your ONLY choice is to do swappable panels.  

[unclet]

I am very close to finishing up my six panel rotating control panel driving Mame cabinet.   I will post pics when it is complete.   I need to apply some molding, paint and wire it up....everything else is complete.    

BTW:  My control panel rotates on the horizontal axis, not on a vertical one like 1up's cab.

[paigeoliver]

Eek, it rotates horizontally?

What is next?

Perhaps the Okama Mamesphere, which has twenty control panels in the shape of one of them 20 sided dice.

[unclet]

Here is a really old pic for a preview....

[1UP]

Here is a really old pic for a preview....

Right there you can see what I consider overkill.  Do you REALLY have to have handlebars AND a yoke?  Motocrosss handlebars wouldn't work well to play Star Wars, but a SW yoke does work pretty well as a set of handlebars (you even have the y-axis twist for accelleration and braking, and plenty of switches for shifting/jumping etc.)  I was able to pare my control list down a bit by doing this, making slight compromises in order to have good playability while not having a closet full of controls!  Sure, the yoke won't work perfectly as a 360^o steering wheel, but it does pretty well as a 180, and using spinzones, it can keep "turning" even when I hit the x-axis limits.

BTW, I'm now planning on getting around the T2 problem by using lightguns hacked into the T2 shells, and mounting holsters on the cab sides.  Then I'll have all my controls constantly connected, and NEVER have to switch anything out!

[unclet]

I agree it is overkill, but since I picked up the Star Wars yoke and the motorcycle steering assembly for $5 each, I decided just to through them on the cab.  

On my driving cab, all control panels will always be connected so the player can simply spin the assembly and select which control they want to use.   No switching control panels or (re)connecting anything.   This was my goal from the beginning because mostly my kids (and their friends) will be playing with it and they will not be trusted with connecting/unhooking stuff    

[Howard_Casto]

I would have sold one.  The profit you got for one of those could easily pay for a good portion of your rig.  

[Xiaou2]

 I dont think its overkill at all... and I wonder why its being bashed?!

  While you can play a motorcycle game with a starwars yoke... it surely wont be as fulid, responsive, and wont feel good either.

 Games like Super hangon move way to fast to try to contol throttle with the y axis.. and you could possibly hurt your wrist.   Most likely tho.. youll just end up with a lousy game all while feeling highly uncomfortable in the process.

 (And I know this because I did try it!)

  Same goes for trying to control spy hunter with the y-axis instead of pedals... it was awefull.    

  If in fact your argument is "why use a real controller when you can use one that controlls all?"   - well then why not use a mouse for everything?!  

  The porpose of a specific controller is to have the most accurate and responsive control available.

  As for the lightgun/pot gun...  while interesting... i believe in a play comparison you wouldnt last half as long or score 1/2 as much due to not being able to aim quick enuff.

  The pot gun games are genrally slower and based more on constant fire rather than pure speed and accuracy.    For most lightgun games... you have to move from one end of the screen to the opposite and back in under 1.5 seconds.   The bulkyness and restrictive ness of the motions with the t2 guns will hamper speed and accuracy greatly.

  No 360 degree wheel?!   No way.   You just cant beat a good game of Supersprint with a real 360 degree controller.   Your controll will suck beyond belief... and youll get creamed.    A spinner can replace this... but even that feels wrong in comparison to a full size wheel.   The larger wheel adds more leverage = better controll accuracy.


  And finally... its about feel (comfort) and nostolgia.  

  So if you want to play games with sub-standard controls... thats your bag... but dont critisize others (overkill)  for thier wanting to have better game control.

  I think  unclet's idea is quite brillient.   Its not what I want due to differing opinions about  control setup... but is still brilliant.

[unclet]

I have a Spy Hunter 270 degree wheel, Pole Position 360 degree wheel, HangOn motorcycle assembly, Star Wars yoke, 2 Virutal On 8-way joysticks, an XBox steering wheel, XBox pedals (of course) and two sets of Virtual Racing gas/brake pedal assemblies.    That should be plenty    

oh yeah ..... and 4 different types of shifters, just because it looks cool  

[Lilwolf]

hot....

swap...


contol...



panels.....




actually I like the horizontal rotations... I have the plans for an 8 sided cocktail table.  It looks more like a coffee table with controls under it.  I'm hoping that with the right paint, it will look like a pure black table when off... And only the one side will be lit up otherwise.

But after figuring out all the controls I wanted on it... 8 sides wasn't enought (really!).  

Hot swap control panels... The only way to go for those who like all the toys this addiction can give you!

[1UP]

I did try Spy Hunter with my yoke, and found it very playable.  I never played it more than once or twice in arcade, so I'm not too picky about it.

BTW, you can easily handle the yoke without gripping the whole grip.  I have bad wrists, so I often let go of the bottom of the handles when pitching up or down rapidly, using my thumb and two upper fingers to manipulate the grips.  I know, it doesn't feel like bike handlebars, but it's a good compromise over having every controller in the universe crammed in there.

And I'm not bashing anyone, if you've got the controls, or you really loved those biking games, then go for it.  I'm just saying that you don't necessarily need to have 3 or 4 types of steering controls to be playable.  It's a compromise between playability and saving space/complexity.  If you have tons of room to make a monster cab, great, but most of the folks who have made rotating rigs have done so to save space and fuss over storing and swapping multiple removable panels.

[Xiaou2]

 Actually,  in my older design,  I made all the panels linked with hinges... but soon I realized how much of a bear it was to put them on - as well as noting the work involved with having to service a single panel...

 So partially seen in the pic - Ive decided to use typical Happ control panel latches.  Theres a hinged door under the keyboard panel... that allows access to the inner latches... so really,  you could swap other panels in there as well.

  I dont like having to remove and plug stuf in as it takes too much time and space... so swapping wasnt for me.  This again is personal preference.

  I also had a simular idea for a lazy susan type control panel where the entire base rotated... and maybe dual monitors as well...  but decided that would take up too much room, so went vertical.

  I actually had designed a modular panel as well... but didnt want to have to store all the parts... as they might get lost/damaged.. and just didnt want to have to change them all the time.

 

[Howard_Casto]

I did try Spy Hunter with my yoke, and found it very playable.  I never played it more than once or twice in arcade, so I'm not too picky about it.

BTW, you can easily handle the yoke without gripping the whole grip.  I have bad wrists, so I often let go of the bottom of the handles when pitching up or down rapidly, using my thumb and two upper fingers to manipulate the grips.  I know, it doesn't feel like bike handlebars, but it's a good compromise over having every controller in the universe crammed in there.

And I'm not bashing anyone, if you've got the controls, or you really loved those biking games, then go for it.  I'm just saying that you don't necessarily need to have 3 or 4 types of steering controls to be playable.  It's a compromise between playability and saving space/complexity.  If you have tons of room to make a monster cab, great, but most of the folks who have made rotating rigs have done so to save space and fuss over storing and swapping multiple removable panels.

You guys are gonna love my uber yoke when I finish it.  Tank control, steering wheel, star wars yoke and motorcycle control all in one.    

(p.s. don't ask for pics it's a suprise)

[Xiaou2]

"""Right there you can see what I consider overkill.  Do you REALLY have to have handlebars AND a yoke?"""

--------
  To me... the above quote dosnt say "You might save some space on your panels by using x to control y instead of x & y"   Its more like Mockery, and "my way is the best way..."

  And its already obvious that he both has room for making a monster cab - and IS almost done with it - thus the comment about 'most people needing more space'  is nulled on this account.

  As for spyhunter playablility with a yoke..   I dont think you are qualified to comment on that because you both never played a real one... as well as not playing for a lenght of time - nor with correct controls to compare with.

 I highly recomend playing the game with a pc wheel and pedals temporarily, and trying to get good enough to reach the boat stage  (about 5 minutes into the game I believe).   The game is hard as hell... but also super addictive and a real adrenalin rush : )

 Finally, as Ive said... its about personal preference.. and you cant really argue that point.   If you dont like or play spyhunter or super hangon much... missing these controllers wont seem a problem...  but to the advanced gamer that has played these to death, and both loves and is good at them... Missing the proper controls is a travisty... and warrents not playing the game at all untill the correct controls are available.

 For most I think that money and space arnt considered heavily over the dream to make thier game playing experience as true and fun as possible.  I didnt have the money for a hangon and starwars controller at the time... so i built them myself : )  heh

 

[Howard_Casto]

Umm excuse me, spyhunter is was one of my favorite arcade games.  I used to play it all the time.  I know exactly how it plays and btw it's a steering wheel NOT a yoke. And I've played in hacked cabs with wheels and buttons, it feels almost exactly the same.

[Xiaou2]

I was speaking to 1up.  You should read the threads --BINGO! Either that, or I was attempting to say "before" but it was too many letters to type-- you reply.

[hyiu]

You guys are gonna love my uber yoke when I finish it.  Tank control, steering wheel, star wars yoke and motorcycle control all in one.    

(p.s. don't ask for pics it's a suprise)

Can you post some pics ??  

[cobelli]

Here's a completely off the wall idea, but I thought I'd throw it out there. Basically, the panels hang from a conveyor, therefore allowing them to clear the monitor, then when they reach the top of the conveyor, they are rotated into place. See picture...

Cobelli

[Howard_Casto]

I was speaking to 1up.  You should read the threads --BINGO! Either that, or I was attempting to say "before" but it was too many letters to type-- you reply.

How does "both" denote 1 person?

[1UP]

"""Right there you can see what I consider overkill.  Do you REALLY have to have handlebars AND a yoke?"""

--------
  To me... the above quote dosnt say "You might save some space on your panels by using x to control y instead of x & y"   Its more like Mockery, and "my way is the best way..."

  And its already obvious that he both has room for making a monster cab - and IS almost done with it - thus the comment about 'most people needing more space'  is nulled on this account.

REEEOOWWRR!  Sounds like the only one here getting nasty is you, although I can't quite figure out why.  Don't start getting technical with my words, or I might have to take you to task on spelling, which would be a "travisty" indeed, and in my opinion, un"warrent"ed...  

You took my words too harshly.  (Gimme a break here, I get enough of that from my wife.)  It was an honest question, not mockery, and I've never said my way is the best.  But if you'll notice, most of the rotating rigs out there right now (at least 4 out of the 6 I've seen so far, including yours, mine, and unclet's) are either based directly on my design, or very close to it, and are self-contained systems built with the smallest possible footprint, hence my statement about saving space.

BTW, don't get me wrong, I've said before in other posts that unclet's design is a cool take on the rotating concept.  No bashing here, I just don't get the need for so many similar controls on one cab, that's all.

Lighten up bro, you've got a hair trigger today...

[paigeoliver]

Here's a completely off the wall idea, but I thought I'd throw it out there. Basically, the panels hang from a conveyor, therefore allowing them to clear the monitor, then when they reach the top of the conveyor, they are rotated into place. See picture...

Cobelli

That would work just fine, and it wouldn't even have to be a conveyor. I think some garage door tracks and rollers would work perfectly for that setup. I used to work at a garage door place, so I am pretty sure that type of hardware would work for it.

As a bonus, if you want to try that out, then just go to the dumpster behind any garage door place at night, and fish out some old tracks and other assorted hardware.

[Lilwolf]

btw, that was what I was trying to describe above.  something similar to that.  Good job on the pic.

But 2 things to remember when trying to impliment this.

1) there is as much space behind the controller as in front.

2) there is other items in the cab (computer, ect)..

You might be able to fit the computer up in the marquee section without much trouble.  Might work well having power buttons up there also.

Then you have a ton of room!

I am curious how you could attach them at the front corners.  Maybe a latch that goes up and over the edges of the control panel and snaps down there.

But probably pretty doable...

Here's a completely off the wall idea, but I thought I'd throw it out there. Basically, the panels hang from a conveyor, therefore allowing them to clear the monitor, then when they reach the top of the conveyor, they are rotated into place. See picture...

Cobelli

[paigeoliver]

You can definitely fit the computer up in the marquee area in most cabinets, but the fan noise gets really distracting being a few inches away from your head. Better off getting a slimline case and putting it at the very bottom of the cabinet, or behind the monitor bay (if room allows).

[hyiu]

might not be a good idea to fit computer at marquee area...

cos the monitor will generate a lot of heat... and heat rises to the marquee area for venting....

I would say... put it flat in the bottom of the cab will be better... (just my first thought....)

[Aceldamor]

Depending on the size of the cp's you could build a shelf in the middle of that conveyer thing cobelli showed us and put your cp there. You would also have to consider some kind of locking mech on the track itself. I suppose in theory, you could use those chain driven motorized tracks like the ones used in the jewelery stores to move inventory in the case..or that my local gamestop uses to house the GB and GG games.    Anyway, here's a pic of the shelf I'm talking about. The only other thing to consider is wiring.....

[Xochi]

Here is a really old pic for a preview....

Right there you can see what I consider overkill.  

If it makes all y'all feel any better, my wife considers spending months building any cabinet at all "just to play computer games on" to be overkill.

[cobelli]

Wow, I never expected my idea to be so well recieved Just to clarify, I am not planning on building this anytime soon, as my cab is almost finished and there is no allowance for such a thing, so anyone out there crazy enough, please give it a go Also, my idea was inspired by lilwolf's, just to give credit where it is due. I think you guys have it right on the garage door trakcs, that was my first thought too, but I couldn't think how to move them. Another point to consider is definately wiring. I think wireless would definately be the option to go here, however, barring that, I think the panels should disconnect. Looking at the pic, the blue is the front arcade wall and the grren the cp. The red would be like a molex connecter that connects as the panel is swung into position. Another important thing to consider is the actual swinging into place. It could just be done by hand, but why? lol. Another crazy solution to this crazy project is to have a second track and wheel system. The track is the light blue in the "f" pictures and the wheels are red. The second track is also on a hinge indicated by dark green. As f2 shows, when the panels are rotated in one direction, the red wheel catches the light blue track and is rotated up into its spot. However, when moving in the other direction, the hinged track is moved out of the way alowing the panels to rotate. Also, in order for the second set of wheels to catch properly, the panel must be slightly tilted, so you would some sort of restrictor. Also, the wheels would need to be on the outside edge of the control panel which would mean a gab between the cp and sides. furthermore, the two tracks would have to overlap, therefore one set of wheels would need to stick out more than the other. One way to help the problem would be to route the black track into the sides. Anyway, just something to think about

Cobelli

[1UP]

Whew -- good luck on getting this to work.  I've got a feeling it's going to be way too complex to be worthwhile, if it works at all.  I really believe the best rule of thumb is KISS -- Keep It Simple, Stupid!  

However, I guess anything is possible, and I do remember being told long ago by Xiaou2 himself, that it would be impossible to fit 3 control panels together in a rig any smaller than his, since he used the smallest possible configuration required to keep the bottoms of the controls from bumping into each other inside.  I guess I should thank him -- anyone who knows me will tell you that being told something can't be done almost guarantees that I'll do it!  

BTW, I STRONGLY recommend against wireless controls, as they usually have a slight lag in feedback -- not something you want for a game machine.  Also, I can just see you replacing batteries on 6 different panels every week.  You might want to rethink this...

[Lilwolf]

If you wanted to make it REALLY slick!

You would have a modular plug in for the controls at the front of the control panel.

So when you slide it in and forward, it plugs in that control panel!

IE it ONLY has one plugged in at a time!  

Gets rid of all the wiring issues... Just need to find a pluging scheme that will work in the area involved.

[tmasman]

If you wanted to make it REALLY slick!
You would have a modular plug in for the controls at the front of the control panel.
So when you slide it in and forward, it plugs in that control panel!
IE it ONLY has one plugged in at a time!  
Gets rid of all the wiring issues... Just need to find a pluging scheme that will work in the area involved.

You guys are going to get me in trouble...
I'm starting to think this is doable for my scratch-built cab... I like the idea of panels getting plugged in when you bring them up... That would definately solve all the wiring problems.

I'm not sure about what I would do to get the lot of them moving though...
I like wood-working, so if I could just get a decent set of plans laid out then I could do this...
Although I'll probably come to my sences before I actually start on it... This would definately be a HUGE project to make sure it worked properly. But I am enticed... I was originally thinking of rotating panels right-left instead of 1UPs front-back. I've got that config laid out, but I would rather have 4 or 5 panels... hm...

[grafixmonkey]

If you wanted to make it REALLY slick!

You would have a modular plug in for the controls at the front of the control panel.

So when you slide it in and forward, it plugs in that control panel!

IE it ONLY has one plugged in at a time!  

Gets rid of all the wiring issues... Just need to find a pluging scheme that will work in the area involved.

Hmmm.   After working with Molex plugs, I'd say those are far too hard to plug and unplug for you to be able to slide the panel back into one.  Some real easy soldering and a PCB edge plug might get you going great though!  

Get several PCBs with edge-plugs on them, and the matching socket for them to slide into.  Then all you have to do is solder your control wires to the contacts for the edge connector, and solder your ground wires in too.  Sandwich the pcb between some wood and bolt it down using unused portions, and it should go in great, just like a nintendo cartridge.

You can even have a portion of the edge go to an optipac and another portion go to an ipac, and have different ipac pins for different joystick configs - like the Toobin config or the Crazy Climber config.

[Howard_Casto]

i think cobelli has a much better grasp of my conveyor belt idea than the rest of you.  I see one flaw with his plan though.  At each corner there would be a rod going from one side of the cabinet to the next.  

Now there are ways you could get around this.  The best method would be to have two seperate, yet identical sets sets of chains and gears.  One one the inside left of the cab and one on the inside right.  The control panels could be attached to thin steel rods welded to a link on the chains.  The weld would obviously have to be on the outside of the chains though, so it wouldn't get caught on the gears.

There are two problems with this method though.  One your chains have to be dead on in sync with each other.  Two your drive system must distribute power to each chain equally.  If these things aren't met then it would bind horribly.  

Also your panels would have to be fairly light so as not to sag the chain and bog down the motor.    You could put a lot of tension on the chain, but that might be hard on the cab's shell.

BUT with that being said I think it's extremely doable.  

Adding on to some of the other's ideas:  (continued in the next thread).  

[tmasman]

You wouldn't have to have 2 motors!
Just a single drive axle w/ 2 gears to drive the 2 chains right?
At least that's what I'm picturing...

[Xiaou2]

 Hmm,  the conveyor-cab is an interesting idea... but from the drawings ive seen so far... its far from workable.

  The major flaw so far is the depth and dimmentions of the panels themselves.    

  While a typical 2 player fighter setup may only be about 3 inches deep...  Anything with a nice steering wheel or even some other specialty controls may run over 5 inches in depth.

 You will need plenty of clearence as your not just dealing with the 5 inch underpanel... but the 8 inch or so joystick/wheel..ect that stick out.  

  The panels will weight quite a bit.. so be sure so think about chain-sag, and pure chain and chain-link strength.

  DO your best to draw out clearly and in great detail each assembly before you go blasting into action.  Even if your design changes... the initail designs will help guide oyu through some nasty pitfalls.

  Good luck - and have fun : )

  Id give it a shot.. but my time is pretty tight.   Who knows tho... maybe Ill catch a break and throw somethign out...

 

[Howard_Casto]

Ok where was I?

Oh yeah.  

You remember where someone suggested putting the computer in a shelf in the middle?  Great idea.  Lets add to it....  Buy yourself a lifting arm, and two usb gamepads with at least 8 buttons each.  

Take the lifting arm (a ram would be best, but they are expensive so use your imagination) and put it on the shelf at a 45 degree angle so it points to where the panels would be when in use.  Now with the flip of the switch you can have the cab move the panel into position for you....  

But let's take it a step further.....  
You know where each panel is on a rod?  Well when the rod on the panel gets towards that upper front corner it'll be in the correct position to move up into place.  So put a long bladed leaf switch in the path of the rod at just the right position so it'll be tripped when the panel needs to stop.  

But we aren't done yet.....

Take that first usb pad and hack it.  When the panel is lifted into place the wiring harness would plug in and it would also plug into a terminal block that has all of the usb pads inputs, but open.  Each panel would have a different button closed on it's end of the terminal block, thus telling software which panel is currently being used.  Panel 1 would trip button 1, panel 2 button 2 ect.......  The last button would be reserved for that leaf switch we put in place.  This would let software know how many panels have went by and when a panel was ready to be put in place.  You install two more leafs so that one will trip when the ram is all the way down and another will trip when it's completely extended.  Attach them to the pad as well.

So then you take the first, hacked, usb pad and give it a super high id number in windows, so it won't interfere with your games.  (if nothing else you could make a kill switch and then nobody would mess with your panels too )

You ask your local brilliant programmer (hint hint)  to help you and he writes a program that keeps track of what panel you are on and how to move them.

What will happen is you'll use the second usb pad to control the rig, so you could hack it into a nice little menu mounted at the bottom of the monitor or whatever.   You wire the ram and your belt motor up to the parallel port as your programmer instructed you.

So everything is setup, you have your panel software running in the background and decide to switch to panel 4.  This is what would happen.....  (You are on panel 2 )  You press the 4th button on the unhacked "control" pad.  The software checks to see if a panel is in place and if the ram is engaged.  As both of those buttons are depressed it knows panel 2 is in place. The software trips a simple switch on the parallel port, which engages the ram in reverse.  It keeps going down until the leaf at the bottom of the ram is pressed and then it knows to stop and thus cuts the signal.  The chain motor is started.... it knows it is currently on panel 2 and thus only needs to pass one panel.  The motor starts and panel 3 goes by, tripping the leaf switch with it's support rod.  The software counter increases by one and as it's nearing the destinaton panel it goes into "high alert" mode.  The INSTANT the switch is tripped again the motor is turned off (as the drive is geared so that it's REALLY stiff, there is no "coasting" after the motor shuts off).  Before starting the ram the software checks to make sure the switch is indeeed pressed.  If not it'll try to adjust, much like a printer head does.  When it's satisfied, it'll start the ram until the leaf at the top of the ram's path is tripped, telling the software the panel is in place.  The software checks to see if the panel's button is tripped.  It is and all is well.  If not then it would give you an error and tell you that the mechanics are jammed or something.  

The cab automatically Switched the panels for you!

Complicated?  You bet cha... but as this rig would already insainely complex a person might as well do it right.    

[cobelli]

I just have to say, nicely done Howard! You branched off my insane ramblings and came up with something that will actually work! Kudos to you

Cobelli

[hooded_paladin]

If I understand molex connectors or any connector of that sort, you have to PUSH IN the pins.  The action needed to swivel in and connect a control panel would not just be to swing up, but to swing up in one position and slide down into another.

Complicated?  You betcha.  You guys can try it, but I'm out.

[Aceldamor]

You remember where someone suggested putting the computer in a shelf in the middle?  Great idea.  

Well thanks HC.....you had interesting ideas yourself.

Hey 1up....I bet you can't do this. (This way based on his previous posts, we're assured he'll actually try)  

[1UP]

I bet you can't do this. (This way based on his previous posts, we're assured he'll actually try)  

Well, that only applies if it's something I really wanted to do in the first place -- you can't get me into a gunfight just by calling me yella', I'm not Marty McFly!    I'm no Doc Brown either, so I'm staying clear of this engineering nightmare...

A few suggestions though.  I don't think you'd want to totally surround your PC with control panels, or it's going to be a beeyotch getting in there to work on it!  Also, don't forget that the PC needs a power cord, so somehow you've got to run one past all those panels without anything catching.  Likewise, your conveyor needs power, so you're at least going to have to route a groove into one of the cab sides for a power line to run through (could be a powerstrip to run everything.)  Also consider whether you're going to want a network cable or anything else running out from your PC.  Lastly, you're gonna want to get at the bottom of your CPs at some point, so better make them easily removable from the chain.

Good luck, I'm interested to see what comes of this, but something tells me it's not going to be any time soon...  You've got your work cut out for ya.

[Howard_Casto]

If I understand molex connectors or any connector of that sort, you have to PUSH IN the pins.  The action needed to swivel in and connect a control panel would not just be to swing up, but to swing up in one position and slide down into another.

Complicated?  You betcha.  You guys can try it, but I'm out.

Yeah these wouldn't work.... I'm not sure the correct name for them, but on my old 92 camaro the rear hatach gets some of it's power via bladed connection points.  basicallly it's bare strips of metal surface mounted on both the edge of the hatch where it closes and the hatch well that it closes into.  That sounds like it would never work, but if the door that's closing is sturdy enough and the points are fairly big it does quite well.

A do it yourself solution would be to figure out how many points you need and get a bunch oversized pcbs printed out, with bare metal leads, similar to a jamma edge connector, but on it's side instead of up and down.  The base of the cab would have an identical pcb but with springed blades (like you see in a battery compartment) soldered on top of the points.  Then you would have some margin for error and there isn't any problem plugging the stuff in.  Probably cost a person about 20 bucks to get the pcbs printed out.  

The real investment would be the time it took to solder all those springed blades on.    

Again, this wouldn't be for the timid at all.  I'm just saying if someone wants to be joe cool and make the uber cab, this idea of cobelli's would work.  It would simply take a butt-load of effort and tlc.  

[Lilwolf]

btw, did anyone consider backing this up to a closet!

Image in you had it up to a closet that you don't use... Then you could get another 10 - 20 control panels added

The beauty of conveyers!  Your only limited to the amount of room your willing to sacrifice!

[Howard_Casto]

Well, that only applies if it's something I really wanted to do in the first place -- you can't get me into a gunfight just by calling me yella', I'm not Marty McFly!    

It's chicken, nobody calls him chicken. (He was only called yeller in bttf3 by maddog, just to mix things up a bit.)

[unclet]

Here you go....plenty of room for a computer on the bottom near the front of the cab.   Easy access to the computer as well (simply open the front cabinet door)Also, could have a coin door now as well....  

No computer or wiring problem relating to the computer or Ethernet connections, etc....  The wires from the connector used to plug in the "active" control panel can run down the front of the cabinet and into the computer no problem

[Xiaou2]

your panels drawn are too thin.   try re-drawing that to scale with a 9inch control depth for a supersprint wheel, or starwars controller, or a tron stick.   none of those would clear the cabinet front as shown in your pic.

 Remember that even a happs stick is almost 6 inches long from top to base bottom.

 

[unclet]

It would seem the depth of the cabinet would need to be around 50"        

I think most people would live with a deep cabinet instead of a wide one though.....although dont ask my wife .... she would prefer not to have one at all  

Although it might be a better design to just have 4 panels instead of the 8 pictured

[CitznFish]

If I understand molex connectors or any connector of that sort, you have to PUSH IN the pins.  The action needed to swivel in and connect a control panel would not just be to swing up, but to swing up in one position and slide down into another.

Complicated?  You betcha.  You guys can try it, but I'm out.

Yeah these wouldn't work.... I'm not sure the correct name for them, but on my old 92 camaro the rear hatach gets some of it's power via bladed connection points.  basicallly it's bare strips of metal surface mounted on both the edge of the hatch where it closes and the hatch well that it closes into.  That sounds like it would never work, but if the door that's closing is sturdy enough and the points are fairly big it does quite well.

A do it yourself solution would be to figure out how many points you need and get a bunch oversized pcbs printed out, with bare metal leads, similar to a jamma edge connector, but on it's side instead of up and down.  The base of the cab would have an identical pcb but with springed blades (like you see in a battery compartment) soldered on top of the points.  Then you would have some margin for error and there isn't any problem plugging the stuff in.  Probably cost a person about 20 bucks to get the pcbs printed out.  

The real investment would be the time it took to solder all those springed blades on.    

Again, this wouldn't be for the timid at all.  I'm just saying if someone wants to be joe cool and make the uber cab, this idea of cobelli's would work.  It would simply take a butt-load of effort and tlc.  

Hot rodders use a trick little connector that sends power through the doors (when they are closed) to items in the back. I can't find it online right now, but basically it's a bunch of nubs on one side (like the top of an AA battery) and there is another corresponding plate with flat areas. when the door is closed they are touching and a connection is there. When the door is open the connection is broken.  I think this would be an excellent connection for what you guys are discussing. The plates for the control panel can slide into place and make the connections..

Something similar to this but there are 3 rows of 5...maybe more :

= |
= |
= |  <--Plate 2
= |
= |

^
Plate 1


Edit: found a similar item, but I think they make ones with more connections.. I guess you could stack these if you wanted to.

Haywire




"Wide Contacts eliminates the need for any wiring between door and door jamb. Contacts will handle up to 60 amps and can be remounted anywhere on the door jamp, not on just the hinge side."

[Nannuu]

Aaaarrrggghhhh!  Internet is down for a week and I miss all of the fun stuff!

Alright then, here is my take on this so far.  Albeit probably missing A TON of stuff.  This is basically in addition to what has been added previously.

I tried to make a realistic scale model of what could be done.  My conveyor belt/chaing is 18"x24" (which could be increased by losing the casters).  The control panel is 10" deep without the wiring connections up front.

I think you could make the connections to the encoder rather simple by using screws and homemade leaf switches.  The wiring could attach to the screws, then once the panel rotates into position, the screw heads press the leaf contacts which are connected to an Ipac (or other encoder).

This design only allows for the conveyor to rotate in one direction.  But it would allow for the motor to adjust the panel into position.

I've gone with the fulcrum on the bottom side of the panel for ease (or so I think) so that the panel can more easily be flush with the cp when in playing position.  But doing so will probably make the panel sit at an angle so you could add a guide at the front of the cabinet to pull the panel to the correct angle before the second motor rotates it into position.  Does that make sense?  I created an animated gif but I accidentally made it too big to post (1 mb), here is the link:

http://www.willyliliana.com/mame%20cabinet/conveyor.gif

I would think that the second motor that lifts the panel could use two arms, one on each side just so that it doesn't twist the panel when lifting, it may be better on the chain that way?  And maybe the same with the first motor as well?  Don't know much about motors.....

By the looks of what I have here steering wheels and such would not be so fun to try and add......

Hope the diagrams make sense!

[Nannuu]

more...

[Nannuu]

top..

[mpm32]

Nice Diagram.  Would the panel lift bar and the top right gear unit be stron enough for gameplay?  i.e. leaning and playing?  Maybe some kind of lock bar that slides into place to lock the panel in so its strong?

[tmasman]

...I created an animated gif but I accidentally made it too big to post (1 mb)...

I shrunk it...  

[Lilwolf]

GREAT IMAGES!

I think get rid of the lifter motor and put a mechanical locking arm.   Should help simplify parts.

and also, I think you can get more control panels on it.  You should look into how many.  If you can get 5+ its interesting.  If with all the other stuff it ends up really being 4... then it's not.

[Nannuu]

Hey thanks Tsman!

Like I said I don't know squat about motors but I would imagine that you could get something sturdy enough for gameplay but also may be too expensive?

I was thinking of maybe solenoids to hold it in place while playing?  I believe someone mentioned that for Unclets rotating cab as well.

Well this "design" has 5 panels and you may be able to squeeze one more on there if you made them smaller or got rid of the casters on the bottom.

[1UP]

Well, that only applies if it's something I really wanted to do in the first place -- you can't get me into a gunfight just by calling me yella', I'm not Marty McFly!    

It's chicken, nobody calls him chicken. (He was only called yeller in bttf3 by maddog, just to mix things up a bit.)

You don't need to school me on BTTF!  I've got the DVDs...  I just liked that example because it was probably the stupidest thing Marty did on a dare...

[Xiaou2]

 Using an additional frontal chain set  you can make a bi-directonal system - without the 'not so reliable'  lift & lock that is shown.

 Ill draw up some pix when i get a chance

[GamingGreg]

"Whoa, you guys are just crazy!  

It is amazing how fast something can go from simple idea to virtual prototype around here.  If someone wants to build this, I say let them try and wish them luck.  However this is way out of my league. (Too complex and probably prone to problems)

HC,  I'm also interested in seeing your "uber yoke" that you mentioned earlier.  Please let us all know when it's done.

[Howard_Casto]

Nice diagrams.  I also concur with the others that the lifting arm wouldn't hold up though.  Although they are expensive (around 100 bucks or more) I would think a hydrolic ram would be the best method.  The way hydrolics work it would be physically impossible to push it back down without releasing the valve.  

[unclet]

Instead of having all of this complicated stuff, here is a couple of ideas:

- The motor to rotate through control panels is cool, but to save money why not just have a crank on the outside of you cab which you turn to get to the next control panel.  Crank it either way so you can rotate through control panels in either direction.

- Instead of using the lifting arm (which people are saying is expensive and not that sturdy for real gameplay), why not rotate your control panel and rest it on top of the existing wood for your cabinet front and back.   This will give you the support you need.   The cabinet front and back (see pic ... due to this bad description) could move out of the way via a hinge while you rotate your control panel into place.

Keep in mind I did not show the wiring for the control panel and how it attaches/connects but this should not be a problem to figure out.

- Also, each control panel get have a handle on it so when the control panel is cranked into position, the player can reach down grab the handle and pull the control panel up.  Once the control panel is raised high enough, the cabinet front and back pieces (can be dropped back down into place and the control panel can then be rested on top of them.

[Howard_Casto]

Because that would remove the automatic feature (which is the coolest part of this design) and just getting the gears running correctly is going to cost a butt-load anyway.  

*edit*

didn't see the solenoid comments.....  that would work fine...  After the "locked" leaf was tripped they could lock the panel in place.  Steel rods from them would hold it no problem.  

[SirPoonga]

Cool idea, but it won't be pretty

I think we need to start a new show called Monster Arcade.

[Xiaou2]

 I luv those monster shows  ^_^      Funny enuff - they just had a monster house episode where they made a 3 panel rotating bartop:

   1 Bar top
   2 shuffle board
   3 chess-checkers & skittle bowl  

 Was cool to see that in action on tv : )

  Also stopped at walmart 2day... and they had a rotating bag system.   like 2 bags per side with 4 sides.  was pretty cool idea.

 
  As for the lift idea... it was to use a 2ndary chain that was geared higher than the rest.   That would then pull a hook that was on the front of the panel up faster - and right into the spot needed to lock.  

 
  However... i started to think about how silly this is...

 I myself think that building a 6 sided beast is good enuff.  If I realy wanted to... i could enclose it in a box shape... and pop a barn door front on it as well as a curtain to cover the top to be more cosmetic...

 but really i could care less.  The thing functions great as is... and is a lot less complicated to build - as well as costing less.   Easier repair and trasport too.


 On another note... i had an idea for those who want to sitdown at thier standup cabs on occassion...   A dual bike seat foldout assembly that sits lodged in the bottom front of the cab.   You simply pull the seat out - then unfold the stablizer leg (under the chair) to the floor.   You could add pedal sets on the floor of the cab too... or maybe even as part of the seat assembly.
 
 
 

[teef two]

I just have to join in this madness with a mad idea of my own.

Okay, stick with it and it just might make sense. The idea is old style jukebox inspired (in a way).

Imagine a cab with a blank control panel that is motor driven to decsend slightly and then pull back into the body of the cab.
You have a series of control panels in a horizontal rack. By pressing a button (on the control panel or software driven) the required assembly slides forward out of the rack and is then lifted upwards by a mechnism (chain or hydraulic ram). The blank panel then slides down and back and the new panel rises from the depths and locks into place. When selecting a new panel it goes back into its rack and the new panel arises to replace it. No need to worry about rotating wires getting tangled or having to plug in the control panel once it is in place. All panels would be connected to a single switch which, depending on the panel that is active, will connect that panel to the pc.

Love to see someone draw this as frankly I lack the time or talent  

[Spaced Invader]

Is it just me or is this idea WAY more complicated than...

worry(ing) about rotating wires getting tangled or having to plug in the control panel once it is in place

[allroy1975]

btw, did anyone consider backing this up to a closet!

Image in you had it up to a closet that you don't use... Then you could get another 10 - 20 control panels added

The beauty of conveyers!  Your only limited to the amount of room your willing to sacrifice!

am I the only one who thought this was hilarious?
Seriously I laughed for like 5 minutes.  

BTW, I've only made my one cab, so I'm not sure....
Is it more fun to build 1 cab and go insane trying to figure out how to get every control panel EVER in it, or to build a few different Control Panels and just swap them out?  

Anyway, I'm amazed at the great ideas you guys have come up with...I just realize I'll never do it.  No matter how good anyone can make it look  

Allroy