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Author Topic: Incorporating a real mouse  (Read 1695 times)

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Incorporating a real mouse
« on: May 31, 2011, 11:04:40 am »
I'm curious to know if anyone has incorporated a real mouse (not a trackball) into their CP. There are so many good Joystick/mouse type games out there that just don't play well using other controls.

I was considering adding a removable shelf that would be propped up on four mounting posts. Once removed, the CP would be flush again. All you'd see are the 4 little holes where the mount posts screw in. I tried simply placing my mouse in the bottom right corner, but their just isn't enough real estate due to all the buttons and joysticks.  I don't want to resort to making the quad CP even larger than it already is.

Would love to hear what you think and/or what others have come up with.

Thanks
]{.S.

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Re: Incorporating a real mouse
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2011, 12:42:29 pm »
IMHO, most of those type games just aren't suited for cabs since they are the type where you sit for hours and play, just doesn't seem like it would be comfortable on a cab.

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Re: Incorporating a real mouse
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2011, 01:55:55 pm »
I agree. Some games do require larger time investments, but there are many fun arena shooters that don't require
loads of time.

Scoregasm
Crimsonland
RIP series
Debysis
... To many others to list.

Not to mention many FPS that IMHO suck when played using a gamepad.

I have tried to get many of these to work using my 2 U360s and there is always some quirk or another that
prevents it from working properly. XPadder helps but it still isn't perfect. This is especially true for games where the mouse crosshairs are visible and do not bounce back to center on fire direction changes. You end up having to watch the crosshair move across the screen to the direction you are firing in. This causes delays in shooting where you'd like to shoot and is very annoying. If you tried XPadder and Debrysis as an example you'd see what I mean.
XPadder apparently needs work on the spring back feature. I believe they mentioned a rewrite for the mouse code responsible for this ability.

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Re: Incorporating a real mouse
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2011, 02:29:11 pm »
while I agree playing FPS games with a mouse is a must. For me, even trying to play them with a game pad doesn't do it for me. It's not as acurate.

with a pad it like: left left up oh too far right up a bit shoot.

(I've also noticed that some console games where a gamepad is used, the game enemies just sort of stand there while you get homed in THEN attack where with a PC and a mouse there doesn't seem to be any "standing around" with the enemies.).

if i need to quickly spin around to look behind me it's not an issue. with a pad it takes like 3 seconds to go all the way around.

I like to sit down in my nice comfy chair and play. I don't think it would be as enjoyable if i had to stand there.  I don't really think it's suitable for a cabinet though. especially where you would have an elevated mouse pad of sorts. you would be picking up the mouse all the time because you dont have anyplace to place your wrist (unless it was unusually large.) what about building a track pad into the panel? http://www.amazon.com/Adesso-Touchpad-Glidepoint-Technology-GP160U-121/dp/B0007T27BE looks like you could router out a spot for it and have it blend in pretty good. i dunno how you are at playing with a trackpad, it takes a little getting used to.

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Re: Incorporating a real mouse
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2011, 02:48:12 pm »
Rethink the trackball. The problem generally isn't the trackball itself, its the fact that, on a standard arcade trackball, you need two hands, one for movement and the other for buttons whereas the mouse wraps movement, 3+ buttons, Z-axis in a nice package for one hand. Take a peek at ergornomically trackball and see what they offer you. The ball isn't nearly as large as an arcade and certainly not as durable but that doesnt seem to be your goal anyways.

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Re: Incorporating a real mouse
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2011, 04:16:32 pm »
lilshawn, I dont' think I'd like the trackpad since tracking while clicking doesn't seem comfortable.

SavannahLion, the ergo trackballs may do the trick. I'll have to check it out.

Thanks!
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Re: Incorporating a real mouse
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2011, 05:02:55 pm »
What if you made your small shelf out of metal, sunk/hid some larger washers under the art/plexi, then put magnets on the bottom of the legs of the stand? It would snap into place as you got it close.

Similarly you could use a wireless optical mouse and put a few small magnets on the underside to give it some cling to the metal mousing surface, to help it from falling off while not using it.

Haven't really thought this all the way through. Just thinking out loud.

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Re: Incorporating a real mouse
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2011, 06:42:57 pm »
If you're playing a game that needs a mouse, chances are you might need a keyboard as well.  You could consider a slide out drawer with a keyboard and mouse pad on it.
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Re: Incorporating a real mouse
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2011, 06:49:23 pm »
THen what would be the point? It wouldn't be a cab, it would be an uncomfortable stand-up desk

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Re: Incorporating a real mouse
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2011, 08:10:36 pm »
THen what would be the point? It wouldn't be a cab, it would be an uncomfortable stand-up desk

+1

Sorry, hate to be peeing on ideas but if it involves building a shelf and rewiring and etc., then I'd have to agree with Donkbaca   I think there are games that work well on a cabinet, and others that would be better suited at a computer or a console.   Then again, I'm the guy watching Grosse Pointe Blank and thinking that a Doom 2 cabinet would be a nightmare to play after the novelty wore off.  :-\

But if you still want one, then I think SavannahLion has the right idea.  I used that one-handed trackball set-up back in the 90's (thumb controlled the ball, index fingers the other buttons) and it worked surprisingly well with Duke Nukem 3D.

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Re: Incorporating a real mouse
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2011, 03:55:50 am »
THen what would be the point? It wouldn't be a cab, it would be an uncomfortable stand-up desk


I agree Donkbaca, I wouldn't do this myself but just throwing some ideas out there.  Some games just aren't made for an arcade cabinet.
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Re: Incorporating a real mouse
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2011, 11:15:57 am »
I agree about ergonomics and taking away the look of a cab 100%. That is why I like cotmm68030 magnetic solution the most.
This way I can have my cake and eat it too. It also won't take away the look from the CP once the shelf is removed and the wireless
mouse is tucked away in a mouse holster or something.

You need to keep in mind that I am addicted to these Robotronesque types of games and many modern clones require a mouse.
I get to play First person games also, while saving a bundle of money not having to have 2 large screens and 2 expensive souped up
machines (one for my cab and another for my PC) even though I do already. But I speak for my next cab. My wife will rip my heart out
and feed it to the dog if I spend for 2 setups next time around.

I can play Robotron for hours at my cab so I don't think it would be an "uncomfortable stand-up desk" at all. I actually prefer to stand
while playing.

Thanks guys and if anybody has any more great suggestions or input, please keep it coming.


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Re: Incorporating a real mouse
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2011, 11:22:52 am »
I would be wary about strong magnets around a screen.  You wouldn't need 2 pc's, a dual monitor set up would work just fine, with one on your desk and one in your cab. 

Let us know how it turns out....

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Re: Incorporating a real mouse
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2011, 04:38:24 pm »
Something like these mike look a bit cooler on your arcade machine than a regular mouse. You might actually want to leave something like this sitting out.

Zalman FG1000

Monstergecko Pistolmouse FPS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuKH7alJqhY&feature=player_embedded#at=230
Novint Faclon (My fav, spendy though.)
« Last Edit: June 01, 2011, 05:35:46 pm by Vigo »

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Re: Incorporating a real mouse
« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2011, 05:25:56 pm »
What about "Quake - Arcade Tournament Edition".  Never played one, but it looks interesting and probably fairly controllable.

http://www.arcade-museum.com/game_detail.php?game_id=9188

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Re: Incorporating a real mouse
« Reply #15 on: June 02, 2011, 10:18:53 am »
I don't think incorporating a real mouse into your arcade cab would be a good idea.  Consider the smell and having to clean the cage regularly.  If you do, I hope it is in a cage.  A real mouse tend to chew on wires and cause electrical problems.

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Re: Incorporating a real mouse
« Reply #16 on: June 02, 2011, 11:13:06 am »
Also, attaching magnets to a mouse would be animal abuse. I'm calling PETA.

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Re: Incorporating a real mouse
« Reply #17 on: June 02, 2011, 12:56:59 pm »
What if you simply mixed steel into the mouse food and used an electro magnet to keep it "stored"?  That way there's no mod needed to the mouse and PETA should be reasonably happy.

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Re: Incorporating a real mouse
« Reply #18 on: June 02, 2011, 01:12:53 pm »
What if you simply mixed steel into the mouse food and used an electro magnet to keep it "stored"?  That way there's no mod needed to the mouse and PETA should be reasonably happy.

http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Superconductor_magnet

just don't use one of these.

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Re: Incorporating a real mouse
« Reply #19 on: June 02, 2011, 01:51:40 pm »
I don't think incorporating a real mouse into your arcade cab would be a good idea.  Consider the smell and having to clean the cage regularly.  If you do, I hope it is in a cage.  A real mouse tend to chew on wires and cause electrical problems.

But then who would keep me company during those long marathon games. I was even considering a food and water dispenser and mini fridge for his cheese. Why be a hater and crush my lifelong dreams. Why I ask, why?

vigo, nice. Thanks for those!!
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Re: Incorporating a real mouse
« Reply #20 on: June 02, 2011, 03:33:42 pm »
Or for a more arcade-looking controller you could go with something like this:
http://www.amazon.com/3Dconnexion-SpaceNavigator-Standard-Navigation-3DX-700028/dp/B000LB7G00/ref=dp_ob_title_ce



Pair it with this driver:
http://www.3dconnexion.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=336

And you've got a 6 degree-of-freedom movement controller in the space of a large spinner. It's not quite as intuitive as a mouse, but it takes up less space and is stationary. It would also double as a no-button flight stick.

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Re: Incorporating a real mouse
« Reply #21 on: June 02, 2011, 06:20:40 pm »
If those feel anything like the SpaceBall that they used to sell, I'd pass.

http://www.amazon.com/3Dconnexion-SpaceBall-12-Button-Trackball-3D/dp/B002AR5OKC

I have one at work and have tried to use it with CATIA, but it's horribly stiff and not something I'd want to play a game with.  I suppose it might loosen up over time, but you'd have to suffer through hours of game play just to get to something fun.  Not me...

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Re: Incorporating a real mouse
« Reply #22 on: June 02, 2011, 09:30:48 pm »
If those feel anything like the SpaceBall that they used to sell, I'd pass.

http://www.amazon.com/3Dconnexion-SpaceBall-12-Button-Trackball-3D/dp/B002AR5OKC

I have one at work and have tried to use it with CATIA, but it's horribly stiff and not something I'd want to play a game with.  I suppose it might loosen up over time, but you'd have to suffer through hours of game play just to get to something fun.  Not me...
The same company. I love mine in Autodesk Inventor, but the range of motion is not that big. it is not stiff at all, however. google earth is also quite a pleasure with it.

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Re: Incorporating a real mouse
« Reply #23 on: June 02, 2011, 10:38:48 pm »
Not a mouse, but perhaps a hamster for a trackball.



In all seriousness, as suggested earlier, I think an ergo trackball would be the best fit to your needs since you generally need the buttons close to click with the one hand.