Product Announcement, LONO Arcade to USB Controller

[armi0024]

Paradise Arcade Shop would like to proudly introduce the:
Lono^TM Arcade to USB 2.0 Controller Board


Boards ship 5/20 with orders accepted on 5/18

Lono is the god of the Makahiki Festival and the Hawaiian games.  We thought this was a perfect match for this board....

Not just another arcade to USB controller board, the Lono^TM is a small board with big features.
This board comes complete with pin headers and harnesses for easy wiring, allowing 4 joysticks and 56 buttons to be connected at the fastest advertised rate of output with Full-Speed USB.

The Lono is not just another keyboard emulator. It is a full featured USB 2.0 joystick device.
What does this mean? You can forget about ghosting and all the other limitations of a keyboard.  The Lono is detecting and sending as many buttons as you want to push with NO ghosting, even if you were to activate all 56 buttons at once. The Lono board comes with a 6' USB cable and 4 Paradise Rainbow Harnesses^TM(1 per joystick) that will allow for a 4 person panel up to 5ft across with no soldering, crimping or screw terminals. The Lono is automatically recognized by most versions of Windows and Linux without the need for additional drivers making this board easily integrated into your current or new installation.

Features

• Ultra-fast with a USB 2.0 output that updates all 72 inputs faster than anyone's advertised USB Full-Speed rate
  
• 4 separate 19 pin headers allowing for 4 joysticks and 56 buttons
• Automatically shows up in Windows as 4 Joysticks, and 14 buttons with each, making Mame configuration almost automatic
• Native USB 2.0 Full-Speed support
• Integrated hardware based USB technology, much faster throughput than software emulated ports
• USB 2.0 HID device that is automatically recognized by HID compatible operating systems
• Small 2" x 2.5" form factor means this 72 input controller will fit just about anywhere
• Pin headers with harness. No screws, no solder, just plug and play
• Harness is fully color coded for easy wiring eliminating the tedious task of tracing same color wires
• Multipile Lono boards can run together if you need more than 72 inputs (72,144,216,etc)
• Engineered and Assembled in the USA

Package includes:
1 x Lono^TM Arcade to USB 2.0 board
2 x 18" Paradise Rainbow Harnesses^TM
2 x 30" Paradise Rainbow Harnesses^TM
2 x PCB board feet w/screws
Quick start installation guide (full installation guide will be available in pdf form on the website)

[Gray_Area]

Looks nice.

Does that mean it won't be listed until 5/18? I'm sure everyone is eager to know price.

[BobA]

Looks great.   Need the price.

[armi0024]

We only need to sell one!

Actually on a serious note, they will be 65 each, this includes all the harnessing, usb cable, board, and as always... some Hawaiian chocolate.

[armi0024]

Based on beta testing feeback....

We added some functionality to the board.

The Lono will have three start up states, dependent on joystick position at start up.  If joystick 1 is in the neutral position the last programmed state will just be reactivated.
State 1) 4 x 1 joystick x 14 button controller
State 2) 4 x 1 joystick x 14 button controller, where button 14 acts as a shift, making buttons 1-13 show up as 15 -27
State 3) 4 x 1 joystick x 14 button controller, where button 14 shifts all the buttons and the joystick directions become 28-31

A lot of controllers have a "shift" button, but it is usually a universal "shift".  With the Lono, the board is recognized as four controller devices, and in these separate modes each has it's own shift capabilities.  That means you can enter admin controls on player 2, while player 1 is currently be used to play a game without affecting the mapping on player 1.  This also gives the lono the possibility of being programmed to 124 different action buttons and 4 joysticks.  Each controller, on the 4 controller board, has the capability of 31 different button signals and a joystick.

And it does all of this at a blazing fast speed, making it one of the fastest and more versatile controllers on the market.

[Encryptor]

Will there be a 2 player version? Overall I think most people build 2 player cp's. Why spend the extra money for a 4 player encoder.

[armi0024]

Great question,  we have been offering the Xin-mo controller for almost a year now, and have two options there for 2 player control panels:
Xin Mo Arcade Controller to USB - Paradise Style=28.95
Xin Mo Arcade Controller to USB - PC or PS3=25.00

However, at 65 the Lono comes complete with a full wiring harness. When I check prices, other vendors are charging 55 and up for their in house controller with harness.  I will look at the numbers for doing a 2 player controller, it might make sense to have something priced between our current offering and the Lono. 

[Xiaou2]

I think thats a great unit, esp with the harness.  Sadly, I will need a lot of analog inputs too... analog sticks, pedals, thrusters, spinners, trackballs..

 However, I wanted to say that I think the main problem is your website.  Its very hard to navigate and see whats available.

 For example, under categories, theres no "Encoders " section.
And when you hit a category, pictures dont always pop up unless you enter them.

[armi0024]

Xiaou you bring up some great points, and thank you.
 
To borrow from your car analogy in the Frankenpanel discussion... this is our Porsche Turbo, it doesn't hold a lot, but it's blazing fast and does exactly what it's meant to do with speed, accuracy and efficiency.  Button pushes are transmitted at rates beyond anything else published out there on other people's sites.  Our goal was simple, solderless, easy to install, fast, effective, and based on drivers present already in Windows.

Without any tools what so ever, you can connect arcade joysticks and buttons to a computer with this device and you are ready to go.  In fact if you down load MameUI32 or 64 you can just start playing immeadiately.

That is not to say that a machine with over 5 analog devices is not important.  Because many analog devices have USB options we felt that for this version we would build the Porsche 911, not the SUV for now...

I will take a look at the site again.  We are rapidly evolving and have added over 150 products since Jan 1.  We will be over 400 products by July 1 and probably around 500+ by next December.  Part of the complications of this growth is how to organize the presentation.  Not only in a way that makes sense for our products, but also our customers.  Our customer base is very diverse, including Mame builders, classic arcade enthusiasts, console based fighters, and others.  Any thoughts or comments on how to improve the site are very welcome, please PM me or email me. 

Thank you again for all the constructive comments. 

[ark_ader]

Yawn.

You have to have guts to come into a overly saturated market with a device like that.

At a price that is too much for a device I could pick up from Randy for Andy for much less and get a lot more, especially in this tough economy.

Good Luck! 

[jtslade]

Connivence is a good selling point, it's a big thing given that few arcade enthusiasts have unlimited time to spend on wiring and crimping and soldering.

Hid response time in the forum is good, another big plus.

Yes Andy is awesome and has great products so the benchmark is very high but having healthy competition in this market is a good thing.

The problem that faces every enthusiast here is the drive to get as close an arcade feel as possible on as many types of games as possible is a big challenge, with multiple vendors it makes for better selection and at different price points.

Groovy game gear has it's positioning niche, Ultimarc has it's space as well. There is still a good bit of open marketplace

[EVEGames]

Yawn.

You have to have guts to come into a overly saturated market with a device like that.

At a price that is too much for a device I could pick up from Randy for Andy for much less and get a lot more, especially in this tough economy.

Good Luck!  

Armi,
Only a potent mix of jealousy and ignorance could combine to produce a reaction like that.  "Overly Saturated Market"?!?!  In what alternate universe is there an overly saturated market for arcade parts?  This new product of yours is obviously not a clone of ANY product that Randy or Andy already provide, and I defy ark_ader to prove otherwise or admit that was a foolish statement.  

I can't wait to see what you come out with next.  Keep up the good work!

-EVEGames

[ark_ader]

Yawn.

You have to have guts to come into a overly saturated market with a device like that.

At a price that is too much for a device I could pick up from Randy for Andy for much less and get a lot more, especially in this tough economy.

Good Luck!  

Armi,
Only a potent mix of jealousy and ignorance could combine to produce a reaction like that.  "Overly Saturated Market"?!?!  In what alternate universe is there an overly saturated market for arcade parts?  This new product of yours is obviously not a clone of ANY product that Randy or Andy already provide, and I defy ark_ader to prove otherwise or admit that was a foolish statement.  

I can't wait to see what you come out with next.  Keep up the good work!

-EVEGames

 

[CheffoJeffo]

While I almost never agree with ark and definitely like the way that Bryan donates a portion of sales to charities (including KLOV and this place!), I wouldn't dismiss ark's statement out of hand.

There are a bunch of encoder options out there and a number of other options have come and gone in the past few years -- the market *is* pretty damned saturated, except, I think, at the low end where cheap controller hacking is already a decent option.

The question that should be answered is what the advantages of the various options are. Just recognizing that they aren't clones of each other doesn't create any compelling reason to buy any of them and, to my mind, makes EVEGames' statement the most foolish, but not the most obnoxious (that honour goes to ark), statement in the thread.

It is nice to see new options, but without clear and obvious advantages to the consumer, I can't get too excited.

One thing that I will recommend is for Bryan to get some pics of those wiring harnesses up in this thread and on the site. Folks like me or on KLOV may love cutting, crimping and soldering, but lots of people don't and that, in itself, may be the biggest advantage.

 

[armi0024]

I really appreciate people taking the time to think about this and contribute their thoughts.  Cheffo made a great suggestion, we are waiting for our harnesses to arrive... A great deal of thought went into trying to lay this out so it made sense.  For the harnesses, we wanted to make sure that it was easy to wire up.  There are 18 connections per joystick and once you get out to the end of the run, knowing if you have button1 or button 10 can be tough unless you have a clear system.  So what we did was to have 10 colors per 20 pin connector

with two different colors of insulation at the end.  For example, Red Clear is button 1, Red Blue is button 10.

The end result is harness that allows for a very wide range of connections, but is relatively simple to use:


The harnesses are 18" and 30" long to allow for larger control panels and come with a simple .100 female header so that you can just plug them in.

If people want a non-harness, no pin header, version so that you have to do all the soldering yourself.... let me know, I might be able to arrange for a batch like that.

[ark_ader]

That looks better.

Maybe the OP can ship some of these out to a select few, to be able to review it on the BYOAC.

I would be interested on how the units perform in a cab, before purchase.

I can think of just one brown nose in here who would be grateful for such an opportunity. 

[EVEGames]

Cheffo, I'm really surprised.  You think ark_ader's "advice" is good... another encoder, yawn, you got some balls trying to bring another encoder to market, eye-roll.  Bryan is obviously not creating hand-made keyboard controllers in his basement and selling them out of the back of his van.  The man is trying to establish himself in a wide-open (yes, still wide-open) market, and he's obviously way beyond the point of, "ya sure you're not getting in over your head, kid?" type of advice.  He wants to become a one-stop shop, and I think he's off to a great start.

You ask for a clear and obvious advantage to the consumer, I'll give you two, even though Bryan has already stated them earlier in the thread.  Bryan's product is not a keyboard encoder, it's a USB joystick device.  One advantage to that is, not only will it work right out of the box with MameUI (or any version of mame with mimumal tweaking), it will most likely also work with most of the 20 other emulators on your system with minimal or no tweaking.  Think of how many emulators have a checkbox to turn on joystick support, rather than mapping each control to a keycode.  With this encoder, you can do that.  Here's another one.  Read the 5th post in the thread.  The ability to engage Shift functions only within your own "bank" of controls... Player 1 can use a Shift function in the middle of game play, let's say Coin Up, and not worry that Player 2 is going to hit a Shifted button on his side and screw up the game.  I don't have admin buttons on my current control panel, so when I'm playing Gauntlet with a friend, and I need to coin up, I have to ask him to stop playing for a second while I use the Shift function of my IPac to coin up, because I have shifted functions mapped to nearly every button for use in other emulators like C64.  Now picture each player has their own shift button that doesn't affect the other players' controls.

So maybe you can point out what part of my post was foolish, Cheffo, if you show me, I'll cop to it, unlike Ark.  

-EVEGames

[Encryptor]

Great question,  we have been offering the Xin-mo controller for almost a year now, and have two options there for 2 player control panels:
Xin Mo Arcade Controller to USB - Paradise Style=28.95
Xin Mo Arcade Controller to USB - PC or PS3=25.00

However, at 65 the Lono comes complete with a full wiring harness. When I check prices, other vendors are charging 55 and up for their in house controller with harness.  I will look at the numbers for doing a 2 player controller, it might make sense to have something priced between our current offering and the Lono. 

Thanks for the reply. Do they have the default MAME keyset? I don't see anything that says where these can be programmed in anyway.

[EVEGames]

Yawn.
You have to have guts to come into a overly saturated market with a device like that.
At a price that is too much for a device I could pick up from Randy for Andy for much less and get a lot more, especially in this tough economy.

I would be interested on how the units perform in a cab, before purchase.

 

[armi0024]

Let me clarify quickly before this derails.
Mame has a default set for the controls, this controller will map out to the joysticks and action buttons automatically.  You will need to map the coin and start buttons.  This was done because of the diversity of panels people use, we did not want to create a dedicated spot for these two buttons. (For example, what if you want to use coin as a shift command)If there was a demand this could be modified.  

We did not set this board up for programming, that was a decision.  We could do so in the future if people wanted this function, but Mame has a very extensive ability to modify and create configuration files that map inputs.  My thought with this board was to not reinvent any wheels and to use the existing set up in Mame to deal with people's desire to change things around.  This also allows people to easily switch between the Xin-mo controller and the Lono.

Our Beta testers felt that the shift function for admin was crucial but the programmable nature was not so important.

[Nephasth]

Bryan was nice enough to allow me to beta test this board (thanks again man!), and I have had it for about a week now. Previously, I had been using a "common" keyboard encoder and never had any complaints about it, it managed to do what I thought was a great job (and I still think it does a decent job in the right applications). Also, I have to admit I was a little skeptical when Bryan was explaining the speed of the board to me, as well as using a controller interface vs. a keyboard encoder. However, immediately after playing my first game with this board I was more than pleasantly surprised!

I, like some, enjoy cutting wires and making my own harnesses. This board does come with pre-made harnesses, which made it incredibly fast to install. I also have a preference of the pin headers over screw terminals, which helps maintain a clean finished look to the wiring if you wire your own harness with header connectors.

Another plus with this is there is no need to assign joystick IDs between the 4 controllers of the board and it is instantly recognized by Windows. Also having 4 controllers ran through 1 USB cable is nice to help keep wiring clutter down.

I do not use MAMEUI32 or 64, and I had MAME configured for keyboard inputs originally. But it was no big deal to adjust MAME's settings to accept the joystick inputs, just a few minutes of setting them and it was ready to play.

The advantages of this board's speed became immediately obvious when I played Raiden (the first game I chose). On my first credit I scored a new personal best, which impressed me. I was able to dodge more easily and shoot faster. The most noticeable difference was the speed at which I could change directions with the joystick. It was like my reaction time improved, although I know it didn't, it was just the inputs being processed faster.

Is this board for everyone? No. But I consider this a must have for those who love button mashers (shmups, beat-em-ups, and the like), and a great interface for those with 4 player CPs. I would also like to see a 2 player version of this board released. I don't think the market is "over saturated", but there are a lot of options out there, and I must say, I am a fan of options.

[Hoopz]

Outstanding.  $10 that this thread goes a minimum of 3 pages and has certain people arguing the relative speed of Hi-Speed USB 2.0 v. other options available.  Any takers?

[ark_ader]

Bryan was nice enough to allow me to beta test this board (thanks again man!), and I have had it for about a week now. Previously, I had been using a "common" keyboard encoder and never had any complaints about it, it managed to do what I thought was a great job (and I still think it does a decent job in the right applications). Also, I have to admit I was a little skeptical when Bryan was explaining the speed of the board to me, as well as using a controller interface vs. a keyboard encoder. However, immediately after playing my first game with this board I was more than pleasantly surprised!

I, like some, enjoy cutting wires and making my own harnesses. This board does come with pre-made harnesses, which made it incredibly fast to install. I also have a preference of the pin headers over screw terminals, which helps maintain a clean finished look to the wiring if you wire your own harness with header connectors.

Another plus with this is there is no need to assign joystick IDs between the 4 controllers of the board and it is instantly recognized by Windows. Also having 4 controllers ran through 1 USB cable is nice to help keep wiring clutter down.

I do not use MAMEUI32 or 64, and I had MAME configured for keyboard inputs originally. But it was no big deal to adjust MAME's settings to accept the joystick inputs, just a few minutes of setting them and it was ready to play.

The advantages of this board's speed became immediately obvious when I played Raiden (the first game I chose). On my first credit I scored a new personal best, which impressed me. I was able to dodge more easily and shoot faster. The most noticeable difference was the speed at which I could change directions with the joystick. It was like my reaction time improved, although I know it didn't, it was just the inputs being processed faster.

Is this board for everyone? No. But I consider this a must have for those who love button mashers (shmups, beat-em-ups, and the like), and a great interface for those with 4 player CPs. I would also like to see a 2 player version of this board released. I don't think the market is "over saturated", but there are a lot of options out there, and I must say, I am a fan of options.

So based on your report of the device in question, how practical would it be for an existing arcade cabinet owner, to change software and hardware to accommodate this new device?

Simply put, is this product faster than a GGG or Ultimarc product?

[Malenko]

Outstanding.  $10 that this thread goes a minimum of 3 pages and has certain people arguing the relative speed of Hi-Speed USB 2.0 v. other options available.  Any takers?

Hell no, a certain someone already posted in the thread. I couldn't quote his reply with a picture of his "control panel prototype" cause the frankenpanel thread was trimmed.

I think its a neat product for someone who doesnt have a build yet. Andy has been too good to me to replace any of my ipacs/jpacs with anything else

[armi0024]

Let's cut it short of 3 pages.
The device is a native hardware based USB 2.0 that is running at Full-speed.

I am not going to get into the details of each one, there is Low Speed, Full Speed, and High Speed.

The comment on faster refers to the controllers ability to report button pushes as measured by the number of times a second it can report a button or input was activated. There is no limit(other than we only have 72 inputs) on the number of inputs that can be activated at this faster rate.

Some vendors have rates advertised, some don't.  The Lono is faster than any advertised rate for capabilities of buttons pushes per second.

[Nephasth]

So based on your report of the device in question, how practical would it be for an existing arcade cabinet owner, to change software and hardware to accommodate this new device?

Like I said, this is not for everybody. For owners of existing cabs, it could be hassel if one were to completely rewire the CP with the supplied harness, and the same could be said for changing out any piece of hardware. It wouldn't be too big of a job to wire on some of the header connectors though. Practical? Depends on if the owner wanted the speed advantage of this board, which surprised me. Why change what has been working well for you already? For new builders it would be just as easy (if not easier, depending on how that person chose to wire the cab) to use this interface vs any other. I didn't think it would affect my game play, but it was a nice "boost". Before testing this board, I most likely would not have purchase it, as game play seemed fine to me with my keyboard encoder. But after giving it a try I would definitely consider purchasing another for a future build. "Changing software" wasn't a hassel at all.

Simply put, is this product faster than a GGG or Ultimarc product?

You have a PM.

I tried it out. It performed better than my expectations. I provided my opinion on the product (without bashing someone else's this time), and hopefully it will help someone out when it comes time for them to make a decision on a purchase.

[rcub3]

Nephasth, I'm not the OP this time, so we should be good. 

[Hoopz]

Is there a scientific way to quantify response time?  I don't think that simply going off of feel or scores is indicative of true response time.

I would like to see a non-biased third party who has a history here (positive history if at all possible) do a review based off something that can be quantified.  Tiger-Heli comes to mind but he hasn't been posting much.  I think that getting Robin's perspective about the specs would be good also, but he hasn't logged in here in over a year (last I checked it was April of 2010).

To be open, I've bought parts from Andy, Randy, Christian, Divemaster and had recently (yesterday) sent Armi0024 a PM about a small purchase through him.  Probably the only one I haven't personally dealt with is Kelsey. I don't count Dave/Harpal since they're liars and thieves but for the regulars, I've had positive experiences with all of them. 

[CheffoJeffo]

Cheffo, I'm really surprised.  You think ark_ader's "advice" is good... another encoder, yawn, you got some balls trying to bring another encoder to market, eye-roll.  Bryan is obviously not creating hand-made keyboard controllers in his basement and selling them out of the back of his van.  The man is trying to establish himself in a wide-open (yes, still wide-open) market, and he's obviously way beyond the point of, "ya sure you're not getting in over your head, kid?" type of advice.  He wants to become a one-stop shop, and I think he's off to a great start.

Thanks. I'm kind new to this whole thing so I really appreciate your telling me that I am unaware of the market.

 

If you take the time to read what I wrote, I said that I wouldn't dismiss ark's statement out of hand, like you did. I never said that his advice was right (did he even give any advice ?)

Back in the day, Tiger-Heli would beat the living crap out of every encoder that he could get his hands on and wrote amazingly detailed reviews.

Nowadays we get people chiming in who have never even read TH's reviews (which really is required if you want your opinion to be taken seriously), yet expect to be allowed to stand on the lawn shaking their fists.

You ask for a clear and obvious advantage to the consumer, I'll give you two, even though Bryan has already stated them earlier in the thread.  Bryan's product is not a keyboard encoder, it's a USB joystick device.  One advantage to that is, not only will it work right out of the box with MameUI (or any version of mame with mimumal tweaking), it will most likely also work with most of the 20 other emulators on your system with minimal or no tweaking.  Think of how many emulators have a checkbox to turn on joystick support, rather than mapping each control to a keycode.  With this encoder, you can do that.  

I do now have some reading to do based on information that has now been kindly provided to me by PM from a few parties. I will read that information and respond to the parties privately. I am not Tiger-Heli and am not going to get sucked into the type of debate that Hoopz properly anticipates.

I find it strange that you write "USB joystick device" as if that, in itself, is something revolutionary. If you think that is, then please shut up now and let the grown-ups talk.

Here's another one.  Read the 5th post in the thread.  The ability to engage Shift functions only within your own "bank" of controls... Player 1 can use a Shift function in the middle of game play, let's say Coin Up, and not worry that Player 2 is going to hit a Shifted button on his side and screw up the game.  I don't have admin buttons on my current control panel, so when I'm playing Gauntlet with a friend, and I need to coin up, I have to ask him to stop playing for a second while I use the Shift function of my IPac to coin up, because I have shifted functions mapped to nearly every button for use in other emulators like C64.  Now picture each player has their own shift button that doesn't affect the other players' controls.

Now, that is the type of thing that I was talking about. However, I am not sure that it solves a problem that wouldn't be solved better through alternative CP design. My first MAME cocktail suffered from exactly the problem that you describe. IMOP (sorry, channeling Xiaou2), if you want to coin-up then use a coin -- that was how I solved that problem. I see how having a shift within each bank can be valuable ... I'm just not convinced that it is revolutionary. Some folks really like that the 6-in-1 JAMMA switchers have a remote. I think the remote is a crappy way to switch games. My preference.

So maybe you can point out what part of my post was foolish, Cheffo, if you show me, I'll cop to it, unlike Ark.  

I dunno ... I think it was the part that said that the market was wide-open.

How many encoders have come and gone in the past decade and why ?

Some of them sucked, but many didn't.

While I think that ark was over-the-top with his attitude (and, really, when isn't he?), I do think that this is a fairly saturated market and, if you bring in a new product, you had best be on top of your game and bring something new.

I'm not saying that Bryan isn't bringing something new or isn't on top of his game, just that it is foolish for you to dismiss the naysayers just because they are obnoxious.

 

[CheffoJeffo]

Cheffo made a great suggestion, we are waiting for our harnesses to arrive... A great deal of thought went into trying to lay this out so it made sense.  For the harnesses, we wanted to make sure that it was easy to wire up.  There are 18 connections per joystick and once you get out to the end of the run, knowing if you have button1 or button 10 can be tough unless you have a clear system.  So what we did was to have 10 colors per 20 pin connector

That's because "Cheffo's right"(tm) ... at least some of the time.

The harnesses look great and I do think they are a serious selling point.

 

[Hoopz]

For those who haven't read Tiger-Heli's stuff, here's a link:

http://tigerheli.mameworld.info/encoder/index.htm

I don't recall exactly but perhaps the TOKN16/32 was the last he did.  MattP could tell us. Oh, wait...no he can't.   

[drventure]

Jeebus...

That Tiger Heli page is one complete treatise on the subject!

It's an encyclopedia of encoder info...

[Donkbaca]

That tiger heli link IS cool! Nice to know the old folks on here can post useful things instead of telling noobs they are wrong and that street fighter sucks...

[EVEGames]

Thanks. I'm kind new to this whole thing so I really appreciate your telling me that I am unaware of the market.

With just over 100 posts, I MUST be brand new to this whole thing too.  Ok.

Nowadays we get people chiming in who have never even read TH's reviews (which really is required if you want your opinion to be taken seriously), yet expect to be allowed to stand on the lawn shaking their fists.

"Expect to be allowed", eh?  You got some set on you, man.
Bryan posts a new product announcement with a great deal of pride that anyone can clearly pick up on.  He makes his case very clearly for what sets the product apart, and answers all questions directly and promptly.  Then Ark_ader chimes in and tries and tear the guy down for God knows what reason, and I have a visceral response to it.  I've never uttered an ill word about anyone in this forum until today, so be it.  Whether a market is wide open is a matter of opinion, which several others have since voiced in this same thread (are they foolish as well?)  Whether ark_ader can get the same product at a lower price from Andy or Randy as he said, that's a proveable fact, and my challenge stands.  Had ark_ader so much as held the product in his hand before spouting off about it, we wouldn't be having this conversation.  

I find it strange that you write "USB joystick device" as if that, in itself, is something revolutionary. If you think that is, then please shut up now and let the grown-ups talk.

Again, you got some set on you, man.  That's fine, we'll let that pass.

From your original thread:

The question that should be answered is what the advantages of the various options are. Just recognizing that they aren't clones of each other doesn't create any compelling reason to buy any of them and, to my mind, makes EVEGames' statement the most foolish, but not the most obnoxious (that honour goes to ark), statement in the thread.

Now that you know about some of the unique features like individual Shift functions, you change your tune and say it's the 'market' statement that makes my post foolish, instead of just admitting that you didn't take the time to read the 5th post before blasting me.

Bryan, I really do sincerely apologize for cluttering your announcement post with all this BS, and it will probably get me ostricized from the forum to stand up to Cheffo, but I don't like forum bullies who throw their 6,000-post "weight" around like that and tell supposedly junior forum members to shut up and let the grown-ups talk.  I can't just let that pass.  Let the consequences fall where they may.

[Donkbaca]

Nah Cheffo is harmless, just keep the discussion civil and write off his bitterness to the harsh Canadian winters he suffers through

[Xiaou2]

Trolls often stick together, so its no wonder who would side with Jeffo after the deed is done...

shut up now and let the grown-ups talk.

Exactly my point.  Theres no need for this kind of Trolling attitude.  Its simply here to incite a fight.   Its not helpful, nor kind, nor the kind of environment that should be on this site.

 Its called a "Slap in the face" post.   And if you think that getting slapped in the face is harmless... then lets see what happens to you after youve been slapped several times over.

 Its plain and simple 'bullying'.

 If he wanted the discussion to be civil, he should have chosen his words more respectfully.  He didnt.  He obviously wants to start a fight.

[EVEGames]

X2, to be fair, someone is going to point out that my original post to ark_ader was not kind either, and they're right.  As I said, it was a visceral response to someone trying to diminish a guy's brand new contribution to the hobby without even seeing a review or understanding what set it apart.  Anyway, I shouldn't have said it and I don't want to clutter up Armi's announcement any further please, EVEGames was wrong, now let's hear some reviews of this new product.

-EVEGames

[armi0024]

Ok... please?

Look we all have opinions and some share theirs more than others.  I suggest we open a AWF thread, the Arcade Wrestling Federation thread, and move discussions there?  In fairness I have had to sit in the corner a few times because I shared my opinion on other threads, but please, everyone here commenting obviously cares deeply about arcades, this business and what new products mean.  Otherwise you are just bored or wouldn't be commenting.

There has been some valuable, albeit less than positive comments that have lead to some better and informative discussion.  So if possible, please pull the punches and let's keep the thread clean, otherwise every thread I post in will end up in post hell!

[Xiaou2]

EVEGames, this may very well be a troll against me... and I dont care, but I will respond appropriately to set the record straight.

 I have posted my opinions about things I have not touched.  But this being with knowledge of the product, and a deep understanding of the nature of other related products.

 For example, a Leaf switch that has a hard 'bottom out point', will feel different than one that does not.  Its simple physics & comparison of the nearly identical physical counterparts.  You dont have to have the actual 'thing' to know its behavior.

 However, in Arks case, he spouts off without any understanding of the product or its differences... which isnt really right, and as you said, his response was very bitter, and seemed 'personal'.

 As for the market, I wouldnt know.  I dont sell the things.  Nor do I know the sheer number of mame type projects out there.  I do know that competition is good though.  But then again, sometimes cooperation can be better...  For example, if all the vendors pooled resources to get new Vector monitor made (or maybe a laser projector version?), remakes of complex controls such as Race Drivins FFB wheel + the sitdown shifter, a run of specialty plastics parts, etc.

 On a personal note, while I do not know technically if the thing gives the results that it claims... I do feel its imperative to have the utmost fastest responses possible.  A delay may be fine on certain games, but the more intense games really push you to the limits... and a split second delay can ruin everything.

 It may be a little more in cost, but for me, better control = better experience = worth every cent.

[CheffoJeffo]

I was harsh. I do apologize for that and will respect Bryan's polite request that I not carry arguments on any further in this thread.

EVEGames -- standing up to me won't get you ostracized -- probably just the opposite, particularly with the tone that I went with.

[AndyWarne]

That tiger heli link IS cool! Nice to know the old folks on here can post useful things instead of telling noobs they are wrong and that street fighter sucks...

But be aware that doc is very old. Products have changed since then, certainly ours have changed substantially. Much of the USB information, which refers to low-speed USB, is no longer relevant.

[ark_ader]

EVEGames, this may very well be a troll against me... and I dont care, but I will respond appropriately to set the record straight.

 I have posted my opinions about things I have not touched.  But this being with knowledge of the product, and a deep understanding of the nature of other related products.

 For example, a Leaf switch that has a hard 'bottom out point', will feel different than one that does not.  Its simple physics & comparison of the nearly identical physical counterparts.  You dont have to have the actual 'thing' to know its behavior.

 However, in Arks case, he spouts off without any understanding of the product or its differences... which isnt really right, and as you said, his response was very bitter, and seemed 'personal'.

 As for the market, I wouldnt know.  I dont sell the things.  Nor do I know the sheer number of mame type projects out there.  I do know that competition is good though.  But then again, sometimes cooperation can be better...  For example, if all the vendors pooled resources to get new Vector monitor made (or maybe a laser projector version?), remakes of complex controls such as Race Drivins FFB wheel + the sitdown shifter, a run of specialty plastics parts, etc.

 On a personal note, while I do not know technically if the thing gives the results that it claims... I do feel its imperative to have the utmost fastest responses possible.  A delay may be fine on certain games, but the more intense games really push you to the limits... and a split second delay can ruin everything.

 It may be a little more in cost, but for me, better control = better experience = worth every cent.

Well I have owned several encoders, but I like GGG's best.  The only reason for this - they work and work very well and they do not ghost or experience any lag.  The price factor would be a close second, as my soldering skills leave me with blistered fingers.

I have worked in an arcade while I was in College.  I used to build small cabinets out of laptops (none were any good really) but I used several encoders, including Andy's, and I still prefer Randy's.  I like X Arcade encoders too as they work on several platforms (with adapters) very well.  I cannot say I am a electronics wiz, but I know what works and what doesn't.

I do not like ghosting or lag, and I do not get any with Randy's or Andy's product.  Until I see a proper review with actual video, I'll stick with what I know is the best.  Besides Randy's customer service equals his product, which we can all agree.

So I am dubious with a product like the Lono, especially from an unknown, and when it is brought in to a website like BYOAC.  I will make a comment.  You don't like it, I can very easily go back to using spoilers in my post.

Unfortunately we have a brown nose in this forum that will argue at a drop of a hat.  Let him, that what freedom is all about.  We can always read his posts and laugh.

So until I see a proper review - I'll stick with GGG.  But if this Lono is the bees knees, I don't mind trying it out on my next product.

Maybe you can get an arcade builder to do a trial.


Enuf said.   

[Donkbaca]

Why the skepticism?  Lots of people have dealt with Bryan, and I have never seen anything bad written about him.  I like his approach to products, he isn't claiming his is the "best" he is just saying that its faster than any advertised rate of transfer, which is an objective fact.  Neph provided a mini-review.  I don't understand the negativity.  You are either implying that Bryan and Neph are liars, or they don't know what they are talking about.

I think word of mouth is pretty strong around here, things that don't work get rooted out fast.  If Bryan's product is great, it will develop a following, if its crap, it won't. The thing is though, that since word of mouth is strong people should qualify their remarks as opinions, and not masquerade them as facts.  If you have never tried this product, or even never bought from Bryan, how can you possibly have any sort of information that is worth anything to anyone?  You are just talking for the sake of talking.  You are entitled to your opinion, but it is what it is, an uninformed opinion.  Furthermore, just because you knew a lot about what encoders were like 5 years ago doesn't mean you have a clue as to what is being sold now.  Also, who cares if you worked in an arcade, building your own controls in 2010 is a LOT different then maintaining an arcade 20 years ago. You can build a mame cabinet with materials and components that do not have a SINGLE component in common with what was in arcade cabs 20 years ago.

This isn't a big dump on the vets on the board, a lot of them have very valuable things to say about things they know. But, for those that pretend like they know everything, here's a clue; technology has advanced and changed since the times that double dragon ruled the arcade and that cab you built 6 years ago on a pentium 2 running mame .36 doesn't have a lot in common with a lot of cabs being built now using different technology, different displays, different form factors, different front ends and connecting PS3's and Xboxes.

Buy what you want, say what you want, who cares, but don't get all sensitive when someone calls you out on your ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow--- and don't pretend that you OPINION is somehow better or more valuable than someone that has 15 posts. 9 times out of ten, from my experience, its not.

[ark_ader]

Based on beta testing feeback....

We added some functionality to the board.

The Lono will have three start up states, dependent on joystick position at start up.  If joystick 1 is in the neutral position the last programmed state will just be reactivated.
State 1) 4 x 1 joystick x 14 button controller
State 2) 4 x 1 joystick x 14 button controller, where button 14 acts as a shift, making buttons 1-13 show up as 15 -27
State 3) 4 x 1 joystick x 14 button controller, where button 14 shifts all the buttons and the joystick directions become 28-31

A lot of controllers have a "shift" button, but it is usually a universal "shift".  With the Lono, the board is recognized as four controller devices, and in these separate modes each has it's own shift capabilities.  That means you can enter admin controls on player 2, while player 1 is currently be used to play a game without affecting the mapping on player 1.  This also gives the lono the possibility of being programmed to 124 different action buttons and 4 joysticks.  Each controller, on the 4 controller board, has the capability of 31 different button signals and a joystick.

And it does all of this at a blazing fast speed, making it one of the fastest and more versatile controllers on the market.

What versions of Windows requires drivers for the Lono?  The advertisement says most versions.  Is that something to do with USB 2.0 compatibility?

What is the speed of the interface using USB 1.0 or is it not compatible?

Is there any blocking or ghosting with all devices being operated at once? 

What is the main differences between the Lono, Ipac and the Eco Wiz, except the price?

What sets this product apart from other well known established keyboard encoders?

Can this interface work with rotary Joysticks, or can you add daughter boards to expand control devices?

Have you begun to ship these Lono interfaces, or is the one pictured just a prototype?

[Dazz]

Wow, you guys really do bicker and moan way too much. 

I personally love seeing new products and new options for cab builders still being made.  I like having multiple options.  I think the LONO is a nice small footprint package that allows for some very clean wiring to be done.  Depending on when this is released; I'm considering going with the LONO on my current pinball/arcade hybrid build.

[ark_ader]

Why the skepticism?  Lots of people have dealt with Bryan, and I have never seen anything bad written about him.  I like his approach to products, he isn't claiming his is the "best" he is just saying that its faster than any advertised rate of transfer, which is an objective fact.  Neph provided a mini-review.  I don't understand the negativity.  You are either implying that Bryan and Neph are liars, or they don't know what they are talking about.

I think word of mouth is pretty strong around here, things that don't work get rooted out fast.  If Bryan's product is great, it will develop a following, if its crap, it won't. The thing is though, that since word of mouth is strong people should qualify their remarks as opinions, and not masquerade them as facts.  If you have never tried this product, or even never bought from Bryan, how can you possibly have any sort of information that is worth anything to anyone?  You are just talking for the sake of talking.  You are entitled to your opinion, but it is what it is, an uninformed opinion.  Furthermore, just because you knew a lot about what encoders were like 5 years ago doesn't mean you have a clue as to what is being sold now.  Also, who cares if you worked in an arcade, building your own controls in 2010 is a LOT different then maintaining an arcade 20 years ago. You can build a mame cabinet with materials and components that do not have a SINGLE component in common with what was in arcade cabs 20 years ago.

This isn't a big dump on the vets on the board, a lot of them have very valuable things to say about things they know. But, for those that pretend like they know everything, here's a clue; technology has advanced and changed since the times that double dragon ruled the arcade and that cab you built 6 years ago on a pentium 2 running mame .36 doesn't have a lot in common with a lot of cabs being built now using different technology, different displays, different form factors, different front ends and connecting PS3's and Xboxes.

Buy what you want, say what you want, who cares, but don't get all sensitive when someone calls you out on your ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow--- and don't pretend that you OPINION is somehow better or more valuable than someone that has 15 posts. 9 times out of ten, from my experience, its not.

There is no adverse personal motive associated with my comments.  Reading them again after a few hours away from the keyboard, I can see where your suggestion comes from. I welcome your comments.

It just seems odd that there is yet another encoder on the market, where there are two (or more?) dominate products that perform the job just as well.  Looking back on all the old threads that BYOACers made through the years and how many issues or suggestions there has been on at least two of the most well known companies.  These products have either spawned more varieties, or have just gotten better over time.  Why should new arcade builders not capitalize on this achievement?  Why should there be a new kid on the block?  Innovation?

A company saw a hole in the arcade collector market where light guns were needed for the arcade hobbyist.  This company came out with the LCDTopGun and we raved (well I did, as I have two) on the accuracy, recoil and the issues of calibration, drivers and the distance away from the cabinet you had to be, and wished there was an alternative.  Someone well known came in and plugged that hole, and yet I see problems, issues and excellent customer service, resolving them still.  The same goes for established products too.  The knowledge base on keyboard encoders on this site must be worth $$$ to any R&D project.

One would look at the arcade market and try to find holes to plug, not come out with a plug that has a fancy end to it, or a plug with a facility only a handful might utilize.  We need enterprise and ideas of commerce if we are ever to get out of this economic woe.

That was my point earlier with so very few words and smile(ies). Nothing I posted so far I can attribute to Don's post of my character.  I am still a consumer, and this fact qualifies me to make that choice or comment.

Does this product work on the Xbox and PS3?  Maybe not.  But other companies have found those holes already and plugged them.

What kind of undiscovered holes in the arcade market is still out there now?

Makes you think....

[Donkbaca]

What versions of Windows requires drivers for the Lono?  The advertisement says most versions.  Is that something to do with USB 2.0 compatibility?

What is the speed of the interface using USB 1.0 or is it not compatible?

Is there any blocking or ghosting with all devices being operated at once? 

What is the main differences between the Lono, Ipac and the Eco Wiz, except the price?

What sets this product apart from other well known established keyboard encoders?

Can this interface work with rotary Joysticks, or can you add daughter boards to expand control devices?

Have you begun to ship these Lono interfaces, or is the one pictured just a prototype?

all good questions.

I think the advantages here are:

1)wiring harness with pin headers = easy install.  Read the noobs posts, you get a lot of "where do I connect x to y?" posts.  This is simple, you don't even need a screw driver to get up and running. It might seem trivial to some, but a lot of newbies are terrified of wiring, even with screw terminals, the thought of getting wire (how many "what kind of wire do I get for my cp" posts are there?) crimping on connectors, etc, for whatever reason messes with people.  Those people will ove the idea of a plug in harness.

2) The boatload of inputs.  Makes building a franken-panel easier *cringe*

3) The transfer speed.  If everything works as explained, the faster usb 2.0 interface will theoretically be able to transfer more button pushes per second, which should theoretically be a boon to fans of button masher games.

Plus, I think Bryan's cheap and fast shipping is a selling point.

Will these things matter?  The market will bear that out.  Neph seems to think the thing has merit. 

As far as holes in the arcade market?  I can think of plenty:
1) lit bat tops
2) Button activated KVM switches to toggle between console and arcade
3) Bezels.  If someone made widescreen bezels cheap, they would get business
4) Still room for light gun solutions

That's 4 right off the top of my head.  Lots to do, just look at the common problems/wants on the project threads

[Hoopz]

For someone who complains about older members belittling newbs, you sure don't have an issue being an ass about people having frankinpanels.  Those who want respect, give respect.   

On topic:
I'm curious how these faster speeds are better than existing products' speeds.  Do the Ipac and Keywiz lines have issues?  Not that I've ever read about.  Sure some don't like the shift function on the Ipac but as far as button presses and speed, I have never once read that those products can't do what's required for any game regardless of the number of simultaneous button presses.  I'm not knocking this product.  I just want quantitative information that shows me that the practical application here is advantageous instead of why the theoretical throughput is better.

[Malenko]

donkbaca bounces off the screen door. I just wanna know if it stays true to the code.

[Donkbaca]

Franken panels are ugly.  They are so ugly that they were, indeed named after Al Franken.  He is one ugly dude.  That's how ugly they are.  If they were really that sweet, they would be called Upton panels after Kate Upton. Have you seen her?  Do you not have google?  By God stop wasting your time reading about nerds and their stupid little encoder board theories and google her.

Back on topic. That's a good point.  Does the increase in speed matter? In other words, does the faster transfer speed actually result in better performance?  If the hardware is bottlenecked by the software, then it won't matter if its faster.

That being said:
harnesses
Al Franken panel friendly

are still selling points

[Hoopz]

It seems to me that this quote from MonMotha in the trainwreck that was the USB v. PS/2 v. COM v. LPT thread is the most relative here:

Note also that games (especially arcade games being emulated in MAME) only check the inputs at a certain rate, regardless of how often new input data may be available.  For arcade games, this is typically once per frame.  Since the framerate is usually ~60Hz, as long as new data is available at least that often (and 120Hz+ would guarantee it), there's little to be gained from higher polling rates or lower input lag.

I can't quote directly since the thread got locked.  Must be a new feature!   

What rate did Jamma machines poll for input changes?  Is USB High Speed faster than that?  If so, then can it be reflected in Mame or is that where the bottleneck would occur? If Mame is not the bottleneck, then CAN a USB high speed device send info faster than what original equipment did?

And is this not theoretical?  Besides a certain someone with his shaolin death toe that can play any Mame game better than everyone else, can any human hit a button and get faster results than a regular USB device can send?

[Malenko]

And is this not theoretical?  Besides a certain someone with his shaolin death toe that can play any Mame game better than everyone else, can any human hit a button and get faster results than a regular USB device can send?

When he plays street fighter, he hits the kick buttons with his feet while standing at his mame cab, true story

[Hoopz]

And is this not theoretical?  Besides a certain someone with his shaolin death toe that can play any Mame game better than everyone else, can any human hit a button and get faster results than a regular USB device can send?

When he plays street fighter, he hits the kick buttons with his feet while standing at his mame cab, true story

Pics?

[Malenko]

he moves too fast to be photographed, remember?

[Donkbaca]

X2 aside... Its not just the amount of info, its the rate at which it's transferred, so this device should get those button presses there faster, which would mean the game would be more responsive, which is basically what Nephs impression was having actually used it

[armi0024]

Donkbaca, you are on to me, I did more to Hawaii from Minnesota and I'm just trying to spread the Franken love.....

This thread is like a bad prime time show where you laugh then cringe thinking, he did what?  However, it has taken a better turn towards civility and appreciate that move greatly.

Ader brings up some good questions and I will try to answer those as well as some of the other points as best as I can.  

I am a relatively new entity.  If I came out with a controller that also drove your car, piloted helicopters, allowed for the space shuttle cocktpit to be installed in your living room and more, people would say..."Oh, I wouldn't want to buy something so complicated from a newbie".  Instead I came out with something that was relatively straight forward but I thought would fit some certain applications better then the currently available encoders.  I did so with a lot of thought and care into how it was done. So people are now saying "What value is this?"

If it's not of value to you don't buy it... That's really fine with me, I wan't trying to come up with a solution to everything that ever was, just a great solution for what I see as a niche in the controller market.  This is at heart a fast board that comes with wires for easy installation and has 72 inputs.  If that fits your need GREAT if it doesn't, build a bigger panel

So your questions:
What versions of Windows requires drivers for the Lono?  The advertisement says most versions.  Is that something to do with USB 2.0 compatibility?
The board has been tested on System 7 (32bit and 64bit), XP and Linux.  I have not tested it on older versions but it should be compatible with the same systems that the Xin-mo has been tested on and that includes 98, 2000, and a few Mac OS's.

What is the speed of the interface using USB 1.0 or is it not compatible?
I'm not going to cover all of the USB details, but if you need to know these specifications please look here:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Serial_Bus
Now that being said, I was very precise in what I said.  This is a USB 2.0 native hardware device that is running at full speed.  This means that it is backwards compatible with 1.1(which is what most people refer to as USB 1), I have not tested it with USB 1.0 which is not a common port.  Full speed is defined as 12 Mbit/s by convention.  One advantage of this device is that it does not use software to emulate a USB port, the chip has a dedicated hardware based USB 2.0 port integrated.

Is there any blocking or ghosting with all devices being operated at once?  
No, in fairness and not to be rude, I think I've covered this a few times.  But there is not limit to the number of buttons you can push at once. And no blocking.

What is the main differences between the Lono, Ipac and the Eco Wiz, except the price?
OK, I am not going to answer this, because it is not fair for me to state direct comparisons in a thread where I do not want Randy or Andy to post.  And to their credit they have respected that boundary. (Andy's one statement was very appropriate and device independent)
I will say this, consider looking at my two encoder products.  The Xin-mo we offer and have been for the last 9 months, as well as the Lono.  I'm not saying this is the be all and end all way of looking at it, but if you were to break this down like grocery stores do, $x/oz or something like that.  Let's do the price per WIRED input. (in emphasized wired input because that is an integral part of the Lono design and that is not the case with all controllers)  The Xin-mo, which by most accounts is a low cost controller, is 25 dollars with 30 inputs, or $0.83 per wired input, the Paradise Style is 28.95 making it $0.97 per wired input.  The Lono is 72 inputs for 65 dollars or $0.90 per wired input.  So i was surprised that people were commenting about pricing.  Now if you need 10 inputs, this is an expensive way to go, but if you need 60-72 inputs and want the wiring included.  The Lono is cheaper per input than our budget controller with a fancy harness.  I have intentionally not included an analysis of anyone else's controller here.  As I said, that would not be fair, but it's not hard to do the comparisons yourself and compare the costs of a controller with harness to a controller with harness, as a whole or at a per input calculation.

What sets this product apart from other well known established keyboard encoders?
The amazing name  First off, it's not a keyboard encode, I know that I am harping on that.  Now we are not the only USB controller that maps to arcade controls.  And we are not the only full-speed device. I have only been able to test this device against a few select products and use the statistics that are on a suppliers website, I have not seen a button update rate or specific speed data for other suppliers products that also run at full-speed.

Can this interface work with rotary Joysticks, or can you add daughter boards to expand control devices?
This is a great question and I can always expand on this board.... You didn't think this was the end of my plans do you?

Have you begun to ship these Lono interfaces, or is the one pictured just a prototype?
We sent out beta test boards for feedback with a harness that would function but was not the final harness. The board shown is a final production run board.  At this point we are just waiting for harnesses to arrive.  Now come on... that looks better than a prototype doesn't it?

I would love to sit here and talk about all the things we are working on, and how this board is the part of a much larger evolutionary process taking place at our store, but as pointed out by others there is competition in this market.  If I show everyone else where we are going, then there are those who would work hard to stop us from getting there.  And that's fine, we are competitors.  I have friendly competition and less than friendly competition, but I haven't told any of them, and they haven't told me the secrets of what's coming next.

I will say that getting this board out when our leaf switches finally arrived was not a mistake... if you are going to spend the money on leaf switches, we wanted to be able to offer a board that would perform in a way that allowed our customers to use them to their full potential.

But here is a simple truth.... 1 year ago, we didn't have a website and were selling LED buttons through the KLOV forums and today we have over 350 products, are releasing our own custom boards and are doing OEM work for other people(Yes, cooperation, the custom 1.5" ball tops for Wolfeel's sticks and other projects on other forums, as well as some not publicly discussed cooperation here)  I am not trying to say, "Hey we are amazing", as I'm sure other retailers can point out their merits, which are pretty amazing. But I am saying we are showing a clear pattern... if you think this is it, you haven't been paying attention

All that being said, Malenko you now must die for releasing the secret of the Shaolin Death Toe, this secret technique was the core of our Lono 2.0 (aka Lono Ultraspectacular).

[Hoopz]

he moves too fast to be photographed, remember?

My bad.  I should have realized that.  

X2 aside... Its not just the amount of info, its the rate at which it's transferred, so this device should get those button presses there faster, which would mean the game would be more responsive, which is basically what Nephs impression was having actually used it

I don't think so.  If the device is sending the info faster than the software calls for, the rest is superfluous and isn't factored in.  I'm pretty sure that's the dumb downed way of saying what MonMotha said.  It may not be exactly precise though but it's somewhat close.

[Donkbaca]

I think the rate if transfer is different then the the amount of processes per second. If a single were pressed, it would be sent to the computer faster. So yeah I guess if the limit is 60 registers per second, the volume of button presses registered would be the same, but the USB 2.0 should get those sixty there faster. But it's microseconds, and it might not matter, but it mattered to Neph, the only guy that's tested it so far.

I could be wrong. I really don't care.
Go Mavericks

[Nephasth]

I have not tested it on older versions but it should be compatible with the same systems that the Xin-mo has been tested on and that includes 98, 2000, and a few Mac OS's.

I should have mentioned this before, but I tested this on Windows 2000 and it was instantly recognized, so there's one more to cross off the list.

I think the rate if transfer is different then the the amount of processes per second. If a single were pressed, it would be sent to the computer faster. So yeah I guess if the limit is 60 registers per second, the volume of button presses registered would be the same, but the USB 2.0 should get those sixty there faster. But it's microseconds, and it might not matter, but it mattered to Neph, the only guy that's tested it so far.

I didn't test this board to see the raw data of its performance. I tested it from a consumer point of view, comparing it with the keyboard encoder I have been using since before I joined here, the one I had been perfectly happy with since I bought it, and to me there was a NOTICEABLE improvement in response time when compared with my other interface. Perhaps someone will give the Lono a try and collect the data to provide the numbers others have been requesting.

[Silverwind]

I really appreciate people taking the time to think about this and contribute their thoughts.  Cheffo made a great suggestion, we are waiting for our harnesses to arrive... A great deal of thought went into trying to lay this out so it made sense.  For the harnesses, we wanted to make sure that it was easy to wire up.  There are 18 connections per joystick and once you get out to the end of the run, knowing if you have button1 or button 10 can be tough unless you have a clear system.  So what we did was to have 10 colors per 20 pin connector

with two different colors of insulation at the end.  For example, Red Clear is button 1, Red Blue is button 10.

The end result is harness that allows for a very wide range of connections, but is relatively simple to use:


The harnesses are 18" and 30" long to allow for larger control panels and come with a simple .100 female header so that you can just plug them in.

If people want a non-harness, no pin header, version so that you have to do all the soldering yourself.... let me know, I might be able to arrange for a batch like that.

Love the harness.  Nice work! Good selling point to differentiate your product.

[armi0024]

Thanks for all the great feedback we've been receiving.  Evidently color coded harnesses are a HIT!

[Gray_Area]

I hadn't thought till just now: what about name tags for the wires?

Also, something happened to your signature image.

[Ginsu Victim]

Love the harness.  Nice work! Good selling point to differentiate your product.

To be fair, the Minipac has had a wire harness for years.

[thaddeussmith]

Love the harness.  Nice work! Good selling point to differentiate your product.

To be fair, the Minipac has had a wire harness for years.

To be fair, you're commenting on a year old thread.

[armi0024]

To be fair, we'll be launching a new board soon.... so thanks for the bump

What's in store?
Keep your eyes open, we are shooting for something small, fast and very versatile.... Funny someone would mention the Minipac...

[Nephasth]

To be fair, we'll be launching a new board soon.... so thanks for the bump

What's in store?
Keep your eyes open, we are shooting for something small, fast and very versatile.... Funny someone would mention the Minipac...

Interesting...!

[Gray_Area]

I'm thinking U-Hid competition.

[BadMouth]

I'm thinking U-Hid competition.

w/ffb outputs? (I know I'm dreaming)

[armi0024]

No ffb, and we are not targeting the Uhid specifically.  As soon as I have final configurations done we will announce the product.  Right now we have 20 or so bench top units and we are seeing how much we can or can't do...

[ark_ader]

To be fair, we'll be launching a new board soon.... so thanks for the bump

What's in store?
Keep your eyes open, we are shooting for something small, fast and very versatile.... Funny someone would mention the Minipac...

It wouldn't be a clone of a Xin Mo encoder, would it? 

I mean it would have to be , to compete with a mass produced $25 dollar encoder with all the connections.

Or is it a X Arcade type interface with a $100 price tag?

I cannot see where a company would develop a product in such a high risk and saturated market unless they had an angle.   

I got it:  It is a new Xbox1 encoder for all us CoinOPS 4 fanatics!!! 

[armi0024]

Thanks for the bump?

Funny thing is that everyone keeps talking about saturated markets, etc, but the market has been good to us.  Xin mo's are nice controllers and utilitarian but they are much slower than the more expensive controllers by Us, GGG or Ultimarc

[Ginsu Victim]

Love the harness.  Nice work! Good selling point to differentiate your product.

To be fair, the Minipac has had a wire harness for years.

To be fair, you're commenting on a year old thread.

It was mentioned in another thread, so when I clicked it and saw the last post was July 10th, I didn't pay attention to the year.