GroovyMame for arcade monitors version 0.146u4_013f

[jimmy2x2x]

frogger http://pastebin.com/fycDC69s

mooncrst http://pastebin.com/8Vh76nru

scramble http://pastebin.com/ndgRaQWd

Is there anything else you need Calamity?

Thanks

I've uploaded a new test version with even more debug info. Please paste your logs (frogger will be enough by now). Hopefully this one will bring us closer the origin of the problem. Just to discard stuff, are you using up-to-date roms for these games?

Everything is fully up to date for 0.142

Frogger log: http://pastebin.com/v7YFgSJ2

Frogger looks the same as last couple of test builds, border at top of playfield and clipped at the bottom.

Thanks

bent98: I tried it before rerunning vmmaker and after running it (with a pc reset) same results.

groovymame32_xxx -v -md 4 frogger >test.txt

quit mame after frogger displays title screen

copy text from test.txt and paste it somewhere (I use pastbin)

[bent98]

Thanks for testing. Hopefully this will provide enough details calimity needs to fix.

[jimmy2x2x]

bent98: Would you mind testing, so Calamity can see if our results are similar?

current test build http://mame.groovy.org/WindowsATIDrivers/groovymame32_0142.012o_test.rar

[bent98]

That link its broken and I cant find it in atidrivers section

[Calamity]

Everything is fully up to date for 0.142

Frogger log: http://pastebin.com/v7YFgSJ2

This last logs finally point to the exact place where the random values come:
bounds: (0.268079,0.171562)-(0.742655,0.973854)

However I have no clue why those values are used in your system, it might be an odd bug or something. I've made a temporary hack to set those values to (0,0)-(1,1) again, that seems to be the usual ones for all situations.

So test the new test version I've uploaded to see if it finally fix it.

Be aware that this is a hack and might break something else, let's see how it behaves.

[bent98]

im going  to test right now

[Calamity]

Thanks for testing. Hopefully this will provide enough details calimity needs to fix.

Try again, probably I was in the middle of uploading it.
BTW you don't need to run VMMaker unless you want to modify any of your monitor setup.

[bent98]

Well frogger didnt work well. frogger seemed too narrow left and right.
Heres log

[bent98]

also dig dug is shrunk down tiny and in center of screen, Here test file also

[Calamity]

bent98, your logs look correct now, blit size is what's supposed to be, so I'm not sure what's the problem, would you mind posting some snapshots? Doesn't they look the same than other rotated vertical games?

[jimmy2x2x]

New frogger log http://pastebin.com/HynqRm5d

graphics are scaled down losing definition

Game window is approx 50% width of screen, 75% height

[Calamity]

New frogger log http://pastebin.com/HynqRm5d

graphics are scaled down losing definition

Game window is approx 50% width of screen, 75% height

So even if I hack the values at that point it doesn't fix things as the problem comes from a point deeper in the emulator code, as if it was using different interal sizes in your systems for some reason.

This is really, really strange. Please try deletting any frogger.cfg /.nv from the cfg and nv folder.

[jimmy2x2x]

deleted .cfg

no nv file for frogger

no .ini file

same result

[Calamity]

Have you tested disabling the 'modeline' option in mame.ini?

[jimmy2x2x]

just tried that, did not rotate the screen and ran in 448x256 giving a very small game window

[Calamity]

I think I got it, do you guys happen to have any frogger artwork inside artwork's folder? If so, either try running groovymame with -artwork_crop param or delete/rename your artwork folder...

[jimmy2x2x]

I think I got it, do you guys happen to have any frogger artwork inside artwork's folder? If so, either try running groovymame with -artwork_crop param or delete/rename your artwork folder...

    BRILLIANT! You have solved it my friend, well done

All these are now working 100% for me in 15khz

Frogger
Moon Cresta
GunSmoke
Galaxian
Scramble

Everything seems fine, thank you for your determination Calamity - you saw the job through to its end  


Is the last build a hack with a special case for Frogger?
Could you test if hiscore support is working your end with the last build please?

EDIT:
Also, could I be so bold as to request an additional feature?
This might not be appropriate, but I will ask anyway:

Add 2 new parameters to .ini/command line.

Xadjust and Yadjust

These are pixel values that are added to the games native resolution to help with overscan issues
(add the Xadjust/Yadjust values to the native res before selecting a resolution)

I realise I could just supply a new resolution instead of this method, but it would be very long winded for a large gamelist.

What do you think?



Thanks again for all your hard work and commitment to this project!

[krick]

I think I got it, do you guys happen to have any frogger artwork inside artwork's folder? If so, either try running groovymame with -artwork_crop param or delete/rename your artwork folder...

GroovyMAME should probably default to having artwork_crop on since its primary reason for existing is arcade monitors.

[krick]

If ever there was a thread in this forum's software board that needed stickying, this is it.  Could we please get this stickied?

Saint says that he'll create a dedicated GroovyMAME board if bitbytebit and/or Calamity want one...

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=112485.0

[Calamity]

Great! This issue was driving me nuts, it had to be something external to mame itself as there was no reason why the exact same binary was using totally random values in your system, but what??!! Fortunately the test builds turned out to point to the rendlay.c as the origin of the random values, and that's where artwork is managed.

However that seems a bug in stock Mame as it shouldn't mess things if artwork is not enabled.

Is the last build a hack with a special case for Frogger?
Could you test if hiscore support is working your end with the last build please?

My advice is to go back to the "official" groovymame build. The test builds should be just for testing new ideas and patches. If the original frogger/galaxian hack works, then we can keep it as it is. I tried a different approach to the frogger/galaxian patch than the original Cabmame's one, patching the galaxian driver itself to work at 256x224, thinking your issues were related to that, now it turns out it was the atwork so the new patch didn't make any difference, and possibly introduced new ones (tearing in scramble, did you see it now?). At least it seemed it is the right way to patch these games as you only need to change the value of the xscale.

However, I'll keep the test build rolling the last changes back as it also contains the new experimental three-threaded blitting mechanism that is the only one to allow perfect asynchronous lagless triplebuffering.

EDIT:
Also, could I be so bold as to request an additional feature?
This might not be appropriate, but I will ask anyway:

Add 2 new parameters to .ini/command line.

Xadjust and Yadjust

These are pixel values that are added to the games native resolution to help with overscan issues
(add the Xadjust/Yadjust values to the native res before selecting a resolution)

Actually, the ortodox way of targeting overcan is to edit your monitor's definition porch values in VMMaker.ini and mame.ini. That will add the extra margins you are requesting in a way that's transparent to Mame.

[jimmy2x2x]

Actually, the ortodox way of targeting overcan is to edit your monitor's definition porch values in VMMaker.ini and mame.ini. That will add the extra margins you are requesting in a way that's transparent to Mame.

Im not familiar with this, could you explain a little please?

I assume this is the line I need to change in vmmaker.ini

monitor_specs_0 = "15625-16200, 49.50-65.00, 2.000, 4.700, 8.000, 0.064, 0.160, 1.056, 0, 0, 288, 448"

so to increase the borders, what would I need to change here?

Thanks!




I have dropped back to stock groovymame and everything seems to be working fine

I agree - there is definitely a bug with stock mame, you can see it with gunsmoke and frogger (probably more) with artwork present in the path but disabled.

[Calamity]

Im not familiar with this, could you explain a little please?

I assume this is the line I need to change in vmmaker.ini

monitor_specs_0 = "15625-16200, 49.50-65.00, 2.000, 4.700, 8.000, 0.064, 0.160, 1.056, 0, 0, 288, 448"

so to increase the borders, what would I need to change here?

Thanks!

monitor_specs_0 = "15625-16200, 49.50-65.00, 2.000(right margin), 4.700, 8.000(left margin), 0.064, 0.160, 1.056, 0, 0, 288, 448"

So if you want to increase those, use 2.500 and 8.5000 for instance, or either increase one of them if you want to center the picture... That's for vmmaker.ini. For mame.ini, format is the same but use monitor_specs0 and remove the quotations. You may only use the mame.ini line by now until you find your values. Another possibility is using Arcade_OSD to dynamically find your values and then copy them to the monitor_specs line.

On the other hand, vertical margins can't be modified by software usually, you'll need to use your monitor's potenciometers to regulate vertical amplitude.

[jimmy2x2x]

Got it!, Thanks

One last question (you wish!) is there a way to rotate my display 180 degrees from within mame.ini?

I have the monitor set to vertical and I cant seem to find the right combination to rotate it 180.

I can do this from within each game and the setting is saved in the .cfg file as rotate 180

[Calamity]

Use the -ror / -rol, I think groovymame automatically uses -autorol when monitor orientation is set to vertical so I don't know if it'll override your settings anyway.

[Calamity]

If ever there was a thread in this forum's software board that needed stickying, this is it.  Could we please get this stickied?

Saint says that he'll create a dedicated GroovyMAME board if bitbytebit and/or Calamity want one...

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=112485.0

Thanks krick! That would allow keeping different subjects in separate threads, so if you think it's a good idea I'll ask Saint to create one. However, I'd like to hear bitbytebit opinion on this as he's actually the man behind the whole groovymame thing.

[bitbytebit]

If ever there was a thread in this forum's software board that needed stickying, this is it.  Could we please get this stickied?

Saint says that he'll create a dedicated GroovyMAME board if bitbytebit and/or Calamity want one...

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=112485.0

Thanks krick! That would allow keeping different subjects in separate threads, so if you think it's a good idea I'll ask Saint to create one. However, I'd like to hear bitbytebit opinion on this as he's actually the man behind the whole groovymame thing.

Sounds great to me!

[bent98]

I think I got it, do you guys happen to have any frogger artwork inside artwork's folder? If so, either try running groovymame with -artwork_crop param or delete/rename your artwork folder...

Holy Sh*t! It works perfect now. That was it. I love you.

Now if there was a way to pick and choose which resolutions you want and eliminate the ones you dont want that would help with the Hyperspin limitation right now.

[Calamity]

I'm testing a possible workaround for the HS issue. Basically the idea is to only create 32 bpp modes. As Windows reports 16 and 32 bpps modes as different ones, by doing that we are dividing by two the total number of modes in the system, possibly allowing HS to start. I can confirm it works with   v6.5 for xp64. If any of you are willing to try, please post your crt_emudriver version and for which xp system it is, as can only test this one version by now.

So use your own custom vmmaker.ini file but make sure to add this line (see the vmmaker.ini included):

   Only32BPPModes = 1

Apart from that, I've re-included the RestrictedModes feature to restrict most of the driver's native modes to help saving space. Though this works fine in 6.5 xp32/64 and possibly 9.3 xp64, I'm suspecting it could cause some blue screens on 9.3 xp32, so be carefull and in the worst case reinstall the driver.

cotmm68030 tested this on 9.3 xp64(?) and had to lower the total number of modes to 100 to make HS load.

Finally, be aware some emulators can only use 16 bbps modes, so this trick will affect them, as is the case of neoraine for what I'm seeing.

[kalars123]

Lol believe it or not i decided to give HS a try for giggles before doing anything else, and it works fine with 120 mod lines on xp pro x64 9.3 drivers /shrug haven't run into any problems yet.

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

Yes i've been testing on XP64 on a Radeon 4350HD.

And though it doesn't probably matter from a number of resolution stand point, i'm testing on a 31kHz arcade monitor, using resolutions scaled 2x.

[androtaz08]

how come there aren't any update versions? I'm dying to see the changes in mk4 in 142u6.

[krick]

Because update versions are full of experimental stuff that sometimes breaks other stuff.

Plus, you have to update your ROM sets every update, which is a hassle.

Personally, I'd rather stick to the main (hopefully) stable releases for my arcade cabinet.

[Calamity]

Lol believe it or not i decided to give HS a try for giggles before doing anything else, and it works fine with 120 mod lines on xp pro x64 9.3 drivers /shrug haven't run into any problems yet.

Interesting.

In your report on the WG D9000 you said it has no EDID. EDID info usually contains a buch video modes supported by the monitor that the driver reads and adds to its internal list, so probably not having an EDID is an advantage in this particular case.

[kalars123]

it's that it doesn't have EDID it just that it's useless compared to a standard EDID
compare the WG EDID to my asus EDID

hell it might as well be blank that's why windows reports it as a non PnP monitor

[jtslade]

Anyone have the black bars on the left and right side of Neo Geo MVS games?

For some reason I can not get them to go away?

[bent98]

Lol believe it or not i decided to give HS a try for giggles before doing anything else, and it works fine with 120 mod lines on xp pro x64 9.3 drivers /shrug haven't run into any problems yet.

Interesting.

In your report on the WG D9000 you said it has no EDID. EDID info usually contains a buch video modes supported by the monitor that the driver reads and adds to its internal list, so probably not having an EDID is an advantage in this particular case.

So what does that mean EDID?

[kalars123]

Extended display identification data (EDID) is a data structure provided by a digital display to describe its capabilities to a video source (e.g. graphics card, Set-top box). It is what enables a modern personal computer to know what kinds of monitors are connected to it. EDID is defined by a standard published by the Video Electronics Standards Association (VESA). The EDID includes manufacturer name and serial number, product type, phosphor or filter type, timings supported by the display, display size, luminance data and (for digital displays only) pixel mapping data.

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

Also some video cards (particularly newer ones) will sometimes prevent arbitrary modes from working when the EDID is not provided. EDID spoofing dongles have been built/sold by SailorSat in the past for people having problems with video cards that would not work with Soft15kHz because of the missing EDID.

[daskrabs]

Can someone give me the monitor_specs line so that I can run my Neo Geo games at 320x240@59.18Hz? Pretty sure that's the correct values, but if someone has better ones for Neo Geo, let me know. Running ArcadeVGA 3000 w/ WG D7700.

Also, any plans for a no-nag option?

[krick]

Can someone give me the monitor_specs line so that I can run my Neo Geo games at 320x240@59.18Hz? Pretty sure that's the correct values, but if someone has better ones for Neo Geo, let me know. Running ArcadeVGA 3000 w/ WG D7700.

Also, any plans for a no-nag option?

Check the internal menu in MAME.  Neo-Geo is an odd bird in that games often have extra "crap" on the sides that the arcade operator would push off-screen by adjusting the monitor settings.  If I recall correctly, there's an option in the MAME internal menu that allows you to show the screen with a black border around it that obscures the "crap".  I think there's also an option that crops the game screen, but it won't yield arcade-accurate results on an arcade monitor.  I thought there was a MAME FAQ about it, but I can't find one at the moment.

UPDATE - MORE INFO:

http://mamedev.org/devwiki/index.php/MAME_0.122u4

David Haywood and Aaron Giles added a default layout to neogeo games allowing for either cropping or stretching to the alternate 304x224 layout. Removed default cropping in the driver.

I think that there is a no-nag option, but it's disabled by default.  Generate a mame.ini file by running GroovyMAME -cc and look for it.