PC power on/off switch WITHOUT modifying PC motherboard/switch

[edub]

Hello all,

I have done some searching on this forum and have found some great ideas for power on/off. But I'm missing something that I hope you can help me with.

Ok, so I plan to use a smart power strip - PC will be the "control" and everything else will be hooked to the "switched" outlets. So, when the PC is powered ON, everything turns on and vice versa.

Let's assume that I have a std arcade button as my "power on/off" switch as is popular. That's what I plan to do also. But, the only way to make this work is to muck with the power switch on the motherboard. The PC I plan to use may get purposed elsewhere, so I don't want to decap it and wire in the arcade button to the motherboard. The downside to not using the PC power switch is that I cannot use the auto Windows shutdown power mgmt feature in the BIOS (which is VERY handy).

In this case, what should I wire between the arcade button and the smart power strip as my "control"? I have the monitor, powered usb hubs, marquee light, audio amp, PC, etc. in my system. If I don't want to modify ANY of these component's switches, what are my options? "Something" needs to be placed between the arcade button and the smart power strip's "control" outlet. Any suggestions?

Now that I've thought about it more...the only equipment I'm willing to "muck" with is the marquee light. Everything else may be repurposed down the road and I want it in "original" condition (no hacking).

So, here are my questions:

1. If I don't want to modify anything, what can I place between the arcade button and the smart power strip's "control" outlet?
2. If I don't mod the PC's power switch, then I can't take advantage of the "power mgt", "auto shutdown windows" when PC switch is turned off, right?
3. If I mod the marquee switch, do those things draw enough power to trigger the switched outlets?
4. What else do you suggest?

I guess if the advantages of simple power on/off (arcade button wired to modified PC power switch) outweigh any other option, maybe I will just bite the bullet and modify the power switch. I have a Dell Zino HD - not the easiest access to the motherboard and switch - easier to SCREW UP and then, what, buy another one? I'm really not comfortable with that possibility...

Thanks for the help...

edub

[DaOld Man]

Some computer bios will allow you to set a keyboard button to power up the computer:
http://www.ehow.com/how_5682023_use-keyboard-turn-computer.html

Not sure if yours will.

Another option would be switching the marquee light on, ans having it plugged into the "master" outlet, like you said, but if it's not enough current to turn on the power strip, add something else in parallel to up the current.
What that something else would be is hard to say, but maybe a power resistor.

[Paul Olson]

http://www.amazon.com/Power-Motherboard-Cable-Switch-Button/dp/B00345WH4A/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1298081949&sr=8-3

All you really need is the housing shown in the pic and some wire to run to your pushbutton. If you don't have crimpers, something like this will probably be easier though.

[Donkbaca]

Turning it on is easy, you can set your bios to wake on LAN, or set it up so it boots when it gets power. It's the shutting down that is hard unless you want to shut down from your cab though software. I wouldn't recommend a hard power down where you just turn it off without shuttin down properly

[bkenobi]

It's not hard if your FE has a shutdown option (I know GameEx does, but I'm sure there are others as well).  All you need to do is get that switch cable that's posted above and cut the switch off.  Then, solder on some extra cable (or use crimped on connectors) and connect to your arcade push button.  When you push the arcade button, it will turn on the PC as you want.  When you are in the FE, just select the power down option and it will turn everything off (assuming you are using that smart strip as you suggested).

[haplo]

1. If I don't want to modify anything, what can I place between the arcade button and the smart power strip's "control" outlet?

Assuming the PC's bios has a feature that allows to turn it on from a keystroke on your keyboard: I would get an additional, used PS/2 keyboard and hack it by wiring one of the keys to the momentary button on your arcade cabinet. That way I can turn the PC on without modifying any of the original equipment.

[Donkbaca]

The downside with shutting it of from the FE is that kids/guests will shut it down.  My keyboard has a button to shut it off, I guess you could wire a switch to that. Seriously though, the easiest thing to do is to just hack into your pc power switch. Cut the two wires going to your pc power switch and crimp on insulated
Quick disconnects, then you can connect your cab switch to them and if you ever wanted to reinstall the original pc switch, disconnect the cab switch and connect the pc switch.

[edub]

Thank you all for the suggestions. I actually PM'd Donkbaca as well and he explained the wiring using a "Y" connection using quick disconnects. I have a Dell Zino HD, which is kinda tough to get inside and fool around with - it's not a tower - just a mini "cube" that is 8x8x4 AND, again, this computer might need to be re-purposed and used normally. As Donkbaca mentioned, if I wire it right with disconnects, I could easily disconnect the arcade button, put the lid back on and voila, it's back to normal.

The power-on via keyboard is interesting. Of course, I'll need to check that when I get back home tomorrow to see if my BIOS allows this. It seems strange, though - how does an unpowered keyboard send a signal to an unpowered PC? In fact, my keyboard is wireless and the receiver is hooked to a USB port on a powered hub which then hooks to the PC's USB - all unpowered.

I am using Maximus Arcade as my FE. I honestly haven't explored its power-down capabilities yet, but I will.

I am leaning toward Donkbaca's solution - even though I'm not looking fwd to mucking with the Dell Zino...

cheers,
edub

[bkenobi]

Depending on the FE, you might be able to keep the shutdown options off the main page.  GameEx allows you to create custom menus, so you could put the shutdown option in the "admin" section.  Of course, if the people playing with the machine are looking for something else they could do with it and are unsupervised, they could certainly find the menu item eventually.  Trust your guests...don't trust your guests...tough question.   

[Donkbaca]

Don't trust them. 

[ivwshane]

I have a similar setup and I just set my pc bios to always power on from last state. When I shut down windows I flip the switch to power down the rest of the arcade. I flip the switch which powers up the pc and then powers everything else on.

[bkenobi]

I guess you could do the hybernate option as well.  If you go into the BIOS, you can choose what pressing the power button does.  You could set it up so that pressing the power button for ~4 seconds powers down the machine immediately and pressing for a short time (<4 seconds) will tell windows to shut down.  If you use a smart strip or equivalent for all other hardware, you can turn on and off the machine with a single power button that's located out of the way.

This was suggested earlier...I know.   

[Smeghead]

I got an arcade button with a screw on the other side that simply pushes the power button on the pc

Simply, crude but totally effective

[Cenobyte]

But how do you power down external stuff like the monitor, an external light source, etc.? With a relais powered by the PC?

[Donkbaca]

Yeah, I was going to say, a mechanical solution may be the best bet.

cenobyte- do a search for a smart strip

[meany]

Just have the power switch of the PC assesable and press the buttom.  I have my pc facing the back of my cabinet.  I drilled a hole through the cabinet right in front of the PC power button.  To turn on all I do is stick my finger threw the drilled hole and press the PC power button.

[edub]

Lots of good ideas here. Thank you. This is the beauty of forums.

I think the best solution for my setup would be to have the fronted (Maximus Arcade, MA) be able to shut down windows as its "exit application". I don't know how to do this yet, but posted the question in that forum. If that is possible, then simply mapping a button (Exit) or (Quit) on the admin panel to "Ctrl-Q" in MA would do the POWER OFF for me. No access to the power button would be necessary. If the PC at this point was plugged into the smart strip "control socket", everything else would power down also. Clean. But wait...then how do I power it back up?

For POWER ON, I could modify the marquee light switch to a momentary switch and wire it to a POWER ON button on the cab. If the light is plugged into the "control" socket on a smart strip, it would then power everything else up (including the PC and boot up MA and away I go). Ok, but how do I power down? Well, I hit the "exit" button for MA, it shuts down the PC. I then hit the POWER OFF button for the marquee light and everything else powers down. So, with one "POWER" button (on/off) hooked to the marquee light (which is plugged into the control socket on the smart strip), I can POWER ON with one press of a button "POWER" and when I want to power off, it is a two-step process - exit MA which hopefully will shutdown windows for me and turn off the PC, then hit the POWER button which turns OFF the marquee and everything else.

Anyone see anything wrong with this idea? Other suggestions?

This avoids any modification of the real PC power button (which is a pain inside a Dell Zino HD - not impossible, just intrusive), provides a two-step shutdown (which I definitely want - in order to shut down windows 7 properly). If MA cannot perform a shutdown as its "exit application", then I'll need to rethink this solution for power OFF.

Thanks again for the ideas thus far. I wouldn't have been able to wrap my brain around this at all without your comments and ideas.

Cheers,
edub

[Donkbaca]

I see problems:

1) You can't modify the marquee light to be a momentary switch to turn on the light without some serious wiring, its probably a SPST switch, which doesn't really matter, you could still use it as you want to, you just couldn't use an arcade button.  You have to modify your computer so that it turns on when it receives power.

2) I think Gameex lets you shutdown everything from the FE in case you cant with MA

[Generic Eric]

When I read your post, I thought this is what you wanted:


It wires right into the header on your motherboard:
http://www.mnpctech.com/casemodblog/2011/01/19/most-popular-switch-for-pc-modding-illuminated-vandal-resistant-switch-by-bulgin/

[wp34]

When I read your post, I thought this is what you wanted:


It wires right into the header on your motherboard:
http://www.mnpctech.com/casemodblog/2011/01/19/most-popular-switch-for-pc-modding-illuminated-vandal-resistant-switch-by-bulgin/

That is pretty sweet.

[edub]

Donkbaca,

I think you're right about the marquee light switch. Is there a way to turn a "toggle" into a "momentary" that is simple? I just don't know.

I can't think of any other powered component in my cab that has a momentary switch other than the PC. So, if I can't "rewire" the marquee light, then I'm left with:

1. Mod the PC switch with a Y as Donkbaca suggested earlier
2. Use an arcade button and leads and wire them directly to the motherboard (or use the switch suggested by wp34)
3. Provide access to the real power switch on the PC (thru a hole in the back or via a door on the front of the cab) - I really don't like this idea for the main reason that an "arcade button" is handy and can be mounted where, when you're done playing, you hit a switch and power down, and when you're ready to play, you don't need to access the innards of the cab to turn on the PC.

I found out that MA DOES support mapping a button (keyboard press) to either exit to explorer or "shutdown windows". So, at least the POWER DOWN part of the equation is solved. It is now POWER UP I'm concerned with.

If I had an older style PC, I think this would be easy. But my PC is a Dell Zino HD and it is a "bear" to get access to anything inside. Well, I didn't think about all this when I bought it over a year ago and I'm stuck with it. The best laid plans....

Maybe now that power down is solved, I could just "extend" the marquee switch to an external "toggle" switch on the cab - up, down - on, off. Wire the marquee light to the "control" circuit on the smart power strip. So, for POWER DOWN, I hit an arcade button to "exit MA and Shutdown Windows" and then toggle the extended marquee switch down to power off everything else. To power UP, I toggle the switch UP and it powers on the PC and everything else.

How does THAT sound?

Anyone ever extended a toggle switch like this? I'm sure it's a no-brainer - which means it would be difficult for me...
 

[Useless Eater]

what I did to turn my cabinet on and off is mount a surge protector power strip on the inside, then I drilled a 1" hole in the top of the cabinet, then I mounted a toggle switch on a electrical box cover plate and screwed that to the cabinet from the inside with the switch in the hole I drilled, then I cut the male end off the power strip and wired it to the toggle and took a power tool replacement cord and wired it to the other side of the toggle with the grounds from both wired together with the male end of that ran out the cabinet near the bottom, then I plugged everything inside into the power strip and set the computer to boot on power restore, I shutdown the computer as you usually would and when it turns off flip the toggle off and that turns the monitor, marquee light and amp off then when I want to turn it on again I flip the toggle to on and everything turns on

[jamieoliver22]

All I have done for my bartop is to set it in the BIOS to automatically turn on when it is plugged in / turned on at the wall - it's the easiest way for me.

[Smeghead]

But how do you power down external stuff like the monitor, an external light source, etc.? With a relais powered by the PC?

the pc is the master device in the smartstrip, the pc button powers everything on / off

[edub]

After weighing all of the options (and thank you all for weighing in on this topic), I've decided to go with the simplest route - i.e. with Useless Eater's suggestion.

If I had an older PC or the switch on my new PC was easy to modify, I would definitely go that route with a smartstrip. However, I really don't want to TOUCH this PC because it may be re-purposed in the future - never know. I also spoke to an electrician friend of mine and told him about the chosen idea and he said "simple" - and gave me a little more feedback.

So, here's the plan:

Purchase:
- appliance replacement cord (rated 15A) - Home Depot
- surge protector/power strip - cut the plug off (will be wired to switch on cab)
- toggle switch with mounting box (I'm getting the one that lights RED when power is ON)
- metal box for mounting appliance cord to cabinet (this is just a "crimp" to hold the cord in place at the bottom back of the cab)

So, here's the flow:

WALL OUTLET to CAB to TOGGLE SWITCH(bottom, back, crimped inside metal box to that it won't slide out), no electrical connection here - just passing thru to SWITCH

SWITCH - wire appliance cord to the "feed" part of the switch (like in a home), wire cut end of power strip to the switch also

SWITCH TO POWER STRIP - self explanatory (cut plug end of power strip off and wire to the switch)

All components will be plugged into the power strip.

FOR POWER UP:
- turn ON power at toggle switch on cab
- change BIOS settings on PC to power up when power is applied
- boot into my FE

FOR POWER DOWN:
- "SHUTDOWN" arcade button shuts down the FE, FE programmed to exit FE and shutdown windows (PC powers off)
- turn OFF power at toggle switch on cab

You know, this solution seems VERY simple and is the least intrusive to any other components (modifying the marquee light switch, PC power button/motherboard) and it meets my requirements to NOT unbox the PC.

I never would have arrived at this point without your unselfish help and comments - THANK YOU.

Now, the only question is WHERE to put the toggle switch (more hidden, harder to access OR less hidden, easier to access). And, where to put the "SHUTDOWN" arcade button. My opinion is the following:

TOGGLE SWITCH: TOP BACK of CAB near one side or the other - just reach back and flick it on (but you won't see the red light turn on, but no biggie). In this case, it won't inadvertently be turned off. Or, it could go on the top part of the cab toward the back. I think if it is anywhere else, people might "play with it". 

SHUTDOWN BUTTON: this is harder. I have an admin panel (like the Woody), but putting it here might cause a player (guest) to hit that button - not probably on accident, but to mess with someone else. But it would be very accessible there. I think if I had to make the decision today, I'd place it behind the marquee on top of the cab - easy to access, but out of the way enough.

Inputs are welcome...

Cheers,
edub

[edub]

Just to follow up on the "power on" state of my PC (Dell Zino HD) with Windows 7.

Some suggestions have been made regarding setting the BIOS settings for "AC Recovery". Please note that this setting is defined as "this field specifies how the system will behave when AC power is restored after an AC power loss".

I have 3 choices:

- Power Off
- Power On
- Last Power State

My system behaves the following way (maybe yours is the same):

Setting = POWER OFF
If I pull the plug BEFORE OR AFTER shutting down windows, I must turn the power back on AND push the momentary switch to boot back up

Setting = POWER ON ***
If I pull the plug BEFORE OR AFTER shutting down windows, all I have to do is turn the power back on (via power strip) and the computer boots - YES !!

Setting = LAST POWER STATE
If I pull the plug BEFORE shutting down windows, all I have to do is turn the power back on (via power strip) and the computer boots
If I pull the plug AFTER shutting down windows, I must turn the power strip ON AND press the momentary switch to power back up.

*** I chose "Power On" for the BIOS setting of "AC Recovery". It works EXACTLY like I want it to.

Going with the idea that it is safest to SHUTDOWN windows before turning the power off, I had to have a way for the PC to boot simply by applying power to the power strip and hence the PC. The "Power On" setting does this perfectly. If you shutdown windows and have the AC Recovery setting set to "Last Power State", then re-applying power does nothing. However, if you simply KILL windows by turning the power off, then re-applying power with this setting works just fine. This is not what I would do, but it works that way.

So, the last piece of MY puzzle was testing the AC Recovery setting in BIOS - and I've set it to "Power On". With the above last post (electrical pieces) and this BIOS setting, I think I've found my solution - which is probably exactly how other people do it - I just didn't either see it or I saw it and didn't understand it until now.

Cheers,
edub

[jamieoliver22]

I have set mine as 'Power On'. It is useful to have Power on all key presses, and Power on from USB devices, etc - then if it doesn't turn on automatically for any reason, you only have to press any button for it to boot.

Regarding the shutdown, you can (in Maximus Arcade anyway) choose to not shutdown unless it is held down for so many seconds, which may be useful. Also, having it as a shifted key would make it less difficult to accidently press.

Glad you've managed to find a solution that suits what you need! 

[edub]

Thanks for the tip about holding the shutdown button for multiple seconds - decreases the chances of an "accident". Also, the suggestion about power on "all key presses" is interesting - I didn't see that in the BIOS settings - I will have to investigate. Thanks.

Cheers,
edub

[edub]

jamieoliver22,

My BIOS settings apparently don't support the "any key" option for power on. I just have the 3 options I described and nothing else. I couldn't find the "any key" option under any heading of the BIOS settings. Where exactly is yours located? It is possible our BIOS settings are different and mine does not allow this feature.

Thanks,
edub

[jamieoliver22]

All BIOS settings/options are different depending on your motherboard. I can't remember where exactly, but it mine was under Power Management I think. Don't worry if you don't have the option though, it's only a back up anyway really. As long as it turns on when it receives power, you'll be fine.

[bkenobi]

Many motherboards have options for powering on upon some trigger.  On most of mine, I can select things like: modem, USB, LAN, keyboard, and maybe a couple others for newer boards.  Keyboard is the one that you need to select if it's there (I can't imagine it not being there).  Be aware that if the machine is completely powered down, these triggers won't work to turn it back on (if the PSU power toggle switch is OFF or switched OFF then ON or if the power strip is turned OFF then ON).  The motherboard needs to have some power in order to detect these triggers.

[yotsuya]

Kinda off-topic, but how well does the Zino do with MAME and the front end?

[edub]

Nope - not really off topic. I do plan to post my "project" as I get further along. It feels like FOREVER in the planning stages. I'm past the year point now. Anyway, the Dell Zino HD that I bought was the first entry-level version they made - $250 delivered with Win7 64-bit. I did upgrade the memory to 4G (probably overkill, but who knows about future expansion). MAME works perfect as well as Maximus Arcade. I wanted to have an HDMI connection from the PC to the LCD monitor (26" Samsung) in order to play various types of games as well as MAME. I have played many of the oldies and they look great with this setup. No complaints.

Anything specific you wanted to know?

[yotsuya]

Thanks, edub. I'm toying with the idea of getting a Zino from the Dell Outlet to use in a cab project and was curious as to how it performed.

[NightGod]

I know this is a month after the last posting, but I'm a Dell warranty tech and I checked the disassembly pics for the Zino. First off, getting to where the power button plugs into the motherboard is dead simple-a couple of push-button release panels and 4 screws or so. Secondly, the connector for the button to the motherboard is a 5 pic fan connector with four wires being used, so it is not like any of the ones show on that Amazon page. If you can find an old fan plug of the right type, you might very well be able to just use that and leave your original power button unmolested. Attached an image of what the power button looks like so you can see what you'll be working with. If you need more images for the machine, let me know, I have access to tear-down views from taking the cover off to replacing a motherboard and every step in between.

[markronz]

Sorry to resurrect such an old thread.  I am helping a friend and we are using the same computer the Dell Zino HD.   We have taken apart the PC and see the power switch from the picture right above this.  We just are looking for some confirmation of which wires to use!

The Dell Zino HD power switch has four wires on it.  I assume that two of them are for the LED, and the other two are for the power button, the ones I need to tap into.  I'm just having problems figuring out which 2 wires I need.   

There are labels, sort of, on the mother board.   There is a SW1 label above the power button connector.  This points to the far left pin.  Then underneath the power connector, there are also three more labels (TP49, TP55, and TP88).  I do not know if these three labels apply to the power button connector or not since they are located under it, and not right next to SW1.

My guess is that the far left two wires are the ones I need.  SW1 would seem to imply to me that it's for the power button, and I would think that the wire immediately next to it is the other power button wire.

So, with all that said, do any of you have any idea which two wires it is?  Am I correct in assuming its the far left two wires?  Thanks in advance for any help you can give!

[DaOld Man]

Im not sure about the proper wire designation, someone else may, but if you have a multimeter, you can ohm out the wires.
The two switch wires will have infinity on ohms with switch not pressed, but press the switch and the ohms should go very low, near to zero.
If ohms don't change when you press the switch, try another combination.
Once the ohm meter goes form very high to very low when you press the switch, you have the two wires you need.
The pins that these wires plug into on the motherboard are the ones you want to connect your power on button to.
(Or you can cut these two wires and put them on your arcade button.)
If you don't have a digital multimeter, get one. You can get a cheap one, (Radio Shack, web) and it will be very handy.
Get one with a diode checker if you can, then you can check diodes and leds.

[markronz]

I know you're right, that would be possible.  I'm personally not so great with a multimeter yet, but I'm learning.  But unfortunately I'm trying to help out my friend over the phone.  He's not a electrical sort of guy either, even less so than me, so I'm not sure that I could even walk him through that over the phone.   So I was hoping we could figure out what wires do what.

I think it's a fair assumption that the two wires next to each other go together.   So, what about from a worst case scenario sort of thing...
1. What would happen if we tap into the wrong two wires and hook up the LED wires to a button.  What would pushing the button do?  Would it short something out?  Or do nothing at all?

2.  What if I'm wrong and the two wires next to each other do not go together.  Worst case scenario, if I hook up the Power + and the Power Switch + to the same button.  What would happen if you push it then?   Definitely don't want to risk it if it would fry the computer or something.

I guess what I'm trying to establish is, what is the worst case scenario if we tap into the wrong set of wires? Or tap into all four and start mixing and matching until we find the right two?

[DaOld Man]

As far as hooking up the led leads together, as long as the motherboard is not turned on it shouldn't hurt anything. But I wouldn't try it with the MB on.
Heres an easy way to find what you need.
Cut the four wires going to the button, and plug them into the MB.
With MB off, touch two wires together, if MB doesn't come on, try two more wires. (Sort of like you said about mixing and matching).
Once you found the two wires, mark them, or write down the colors.
The other two wires are the LED wires.
As with hooking either of these wires to power supply, I wouldn't recommend it, since we don't know if the MB uses ground or +5vdc to power on, you could short something out.
Just find the two wires you need and wire them to the button.
Also, most motherboards have the connections marked on the board (PWR SW or PWR ON, PWRLED+ PWRLED-, or something similar.)
You can also look up the manual on the net for that model. Most user manuals have a picture of the terminal and what connects to who.

[markronz]

That's some good advice.  Maybe we will splice the left two, which I suspect are the correct two, and touch them together to see if the computer boots up.  I'm glad you mentioned to not do this when the PC is on though.

Unfortunately, there are no clear labels on this mobo though.  There is the SW1 label, which I mentioned before, which points to the first pin.  So that is why I suspect that's the power button one.  But the rest are not clearly labeled.  And unfortunately there do not appear to be any manuals that explain what specific each wire does.  I am guessing because it's a Dell, and because it's a Zino HD, one of those tiny 8x8 box PC's, that it's not as user friendly to mess with when you open it up.   So yeah, I haven't had any luck finding any references that tell me which wire is what.  So that's how I ended up on the mixing and matching scenario.