Do we need a new database?

[ids]

Inspired by http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=108566.msg1154830#msg1154830 and looking for a new challenge, I'm willing to work on a new solution, if sufficient interest is found.

Do we need a new "database" of sorts where we can have better information, better search options, etc.  Or do we ask for improvements in the existing sources of data?

If you think we need a new database, please specify the kinds of things you would want it to have (be as detailed as reasonably possible)

[VanillaGorilla]

Here Here. I was thinking exactly the same thing. KLOV, while I'm grateful its there, is SERIOUSLY lacking. I'm a LAMP/MAMP dev, so if you need help, or want to divide and conquer, once requirements are defined, I'm in.

[Nephasth]

KLOV, while I'm grateful its there, is SERIOUSLY lacking.

+1

[opt2not]

I don't have a problem using the Search and Advanced Search tools already here. If you know what you're looking for, you can easily find posts related to your needs.
Though it seems that most people now, especially new members do. It seems like people don't know how to use the search and rather just rely on other members to spoon-feed the information to them.

The only problem with what we have now is that some of the older posts that referenced external links (photos and pages) outside of this site are no long valid.
There's nothing we can do about outside pages (unless you wanna capture other pages out in the vastness of the web - which wayback machine already does).  But since Saint handles image hosting here, there's nothing that's going to hurt that unless something drastic happens to his server. You just got to make sure you host your images here and not from sites like Imageshack or Picasa or whatever.

The search engine here is fine. Use it.

[CheffoJeffo]

I avoided posting in this thread earlier because I don't want to dissuade those with energy from doing good things.

Having said that,

• I'm pretty sure that mclemore has been asking people to help clean up KLOV listings for ages and gets no help
• Not enough people here contribute to the wiki, which is pretty easy to do
• A while back, there was a call for folks to help assemble a database of specialty controllers. I specifically asked people who had indicated that this was a "has-to-be-done" project. None of them were willing to help.

I think an accurate, up-to-date database would be great.

I think it is a much bigger project that you might expect and I think that there might not be enough folks who are willing to actually do the work.

I do wish you the best of luck and will contribute where I can.

 

[Donkbaca]

I think the search function could use some help, I find it easier to find results using google than the forums search option.  That being said, I think the wiki is an underused resource that could use more attention. A lot of the same questions get asked over and over in the forums. However, I myself don't use the wiki much because it seems pretty out of date. A revamped wiki would be great

[opt2not]

I avoided posting in this thread earlier because I don't want to dissuade those with energy from doing good things.

I too don't want to dissuade the enthusiast, and I'm sure it'll be great when all's said and done.

Bah, maybe I should be less grumpy. Just got out of a meeting with a client, so I'm at a short-fused level atm. What I should have said is, "I currently don't have a problem finding information here, and most of it has been relevant to what I need at the time.  That being said, more efficiency the better, so if this is something that makes it even easier then it sounds like a good idea. It's just going to be a lot of work".

But if you can get a strike-force together to take the brunt of the work, I'll help with as much support as my schedule can muster.

[CheffoJeffo]

However, I myself don't use the wiki much because it seems pretty out of date. A revamped wiki would be great

So we can expect your contribution ?

 

[Hoopz]

WTF is the wiki?
































 

[ids]

However, I myself don't use the wiki much because it seems pretty out of date. A revamped wiki would be great

So we can expect your contribution ?

 

By no means do I see a "new database" as competition for byoac, the forums, or wiki.  My vision, which may be wrong, as there hasn't been much discussion about what it entails (beyond the post which inspired this poll) is really just a nice web-based view on things, not too unlike KLOV, but with the requested improvements.  I don't see getting into the some of the finer details you find in MAWS, but I do like the schematics, etc.  I would really need all you fine folk to tell me what is missing, what is frustrating, what you'd like that you can't (easily) get elsewhere.  If a concensus builds over what a new take on things could provide, I'd love to help make it a reality.

One concern, however, is that while I can pound out a solid web-app in no time, it's useless without good data.  If there are no good sources to populate this thing, it's DOA.  If the real effort is getting data in, and maintaining it, then my enthusiasm is at risk; we may be in a catch-22 situation.  Without a solid database to start, we'll never get the support to build it out.  I'm not sure atm if data is a serious issue.  Again, I need advice, direction, opinions, etc.

Please feel free to post what you'd like to see in such a thing, if it were to exist.  I'll quote the inspiration to get us started:

In the future, we really could use some sort of custom database program, where inputting information and possibly pictures, is a breeze.

Not specifically a database, I've always felt that a modified-Wiki would serve this purpose extremely well. Even if the Wiki required registration or some sort of restriction on who, specifically, is allowed to add or edit the content.

The reason for this is that while I feel that KLOV is a great great resource, KLOV is seriously lagging in keeping itself up to date. I often find links that are out of date. Pictures that are obviously wrong. New(er) arcade cabinets never seem to be listed. Strange categorizations. Inaccurate game descriptions. So on and so forth.

If a customized Wiki is assembled using custom(for a Wiki, standard for arcades) tags to describe and categorize the games then a true database can easily be extracted from that information. The advantage of a Wiki is it would allow a much larger number of people (who all likely own the game in question) to maintain and update the information accordingly. Being a Wki, you could really expand on the type of information available. Full blown schematics. Repair manuals. Part substitution lists. etc.

To avoid spammers and ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow--- information, you could restrict editors to someone who say.... actually lists the arcade as being owned. I dunno. I say it would be a far more viable long term option than what KLOV is now.

Note: Any database, Wiki, whatever, needs to have an ultra-flexible search routine. The one at KLOV sucks ass... It's way too precise in the search parameters. If I'm looking specifically for an Atari cabinet, why is Atari listed no less than FIVE times?! I get that Atari has gone under different names and/or partnerships but Atari is Atari. Let me look for manufacturer as a substring. Sheez. Controls are the same way. I get a joystick can have a button or two. But why can't I do a straight search for ALL 4-way joystick games regardless of whatever buttons they may have? And a stick with a trigger and LED is in a whole separate search category? Really? Wiki tags would allow a virtually unlimited level of sub-categories and search algorithms.

thx

ps dont worry about pissing on my enthusiasm, i can take it, the feedback is always helpful

[Nephasth]

Full blown schematics. Repair manuals. Part substitution lists. etc.

That's the stuff! Details, details, details. Can't have too many details.

[RetroBorg]

Please feel free to post what you'd like to see in such a thing, if it were to exist.  I'll quote the inspiration to get us started:

Artwork files for people restoring cabinets, marquee, sideart, control panel overlay, bezel, etc.

[Termin8tor]

Why fix what isn't broken. I'm all for updating and keeping it fresh. I managed to build my Bartop without asking a single question. Believe me I had lots of questions but the answers were found on these pages with little effort.

[ark_ader]

Lets keep it the way it is.

[SavannahLion]

There's a slight misunderstanding to my original post (and the OPs). First off, I was specifically talking about KLOV not BYOAC forum. A Wikipedia is not meant to replace a forum. They're entirely different animals that serve entirely different purposes. Excuse my irritation but whoever thinks such a substitution is what is being discussed obviously does not understand the difference.

The site I proposed is not intended for people building a cab either. That is what BYOAC is for.

In response to CheffoJeffo. Through what mechanism are updates done with KLOV? When I initially gained an interest in owning a cab I submitted several updates to klov and they are yet to appear. Hell, the Tempest entry still points to http://web1.galstar.com/jmccorm/tempest-sw WTF? That is one of the problems present with klov.


That said. I would start with KISS. focus on getting a wiki up and running that employs tags to properly categorize the games. Then follow up with information about the hardware (what xiaou is always clamoring about) and so on and so forth.

I would caution against a repository of high resolution artwork suitable for reproduction. Besides copyright issues (Pac and family) the bandwidth just for the art alone would quickly overrun everything else.

[Gray_Area]

I think the wiki is fine. Seems few people asking questions know about it. A lot of the data in it is not out of date. People seem to not understand it. A renewed effort in maintaining the wikie gets my vote.

[Xiaou2]

A wiki is a nice concept.. but its clunky, and not easy to get information out of in a visual and speedy way.

 I have always envisioned a  Mame32 type of integration or database system.  But much further advanced beyond its current limited means.

 Think about the concept of a Time Line.. where you can visually see a spectrum of evolution from the parameters you select.   You could view all Vector games made, in time line order.. .scaling in and out to see them all as small 3d models... or zoom in to see them in detail.  Click on one to see it as individual, and then again to see all sorts of details from Sideart pictures, inside a cabinet, the underside of a control panel, each controller separately, and even individual parts that make up the controllers with measurements.

 An example of visual information: 

 Click on Speakers... and red dots or outlines appear over a picture / model of a cabint to show how many and where they are located.

 Location of Speakers / Diameter / wattage
 Location of Lighting / type of light / wattage

 Click on the Control Panel...
a) see the art from top and front views
b) see underside of panel
c) see the individual controls
d) see parts

 all the while, getting data in written form that gives details about what you are seeing.

IE:

 specs :
  - number of speakers = 3     1L + 1R + 1Sub
  - lights = 6     1 marquee, 2 coin,  1blacklight, 2 flasher bulbs
  - gears 4    a=50  b=25  c50  d=25
  - pots = 4   a=steering X,  b=gas Y,  c=brake Y,  d1=shifter X , d2=shifter Y

 History :

 - Mame Development notes
 - Game Dev Credits
 - Game Tips / maps / guides / Cheats / bugs?
 - Games Development history
 - Game Dev Interviews
 - Rumors
 - Prototype Artwork / Drawings / mechanical revisions / cabinet revisions
 - Figures (sales, run numbers, related...)

 People :

 - Visual pictures of Devs  (similar to IMDB)
 - History of what games they worked on,  when+where / what role they played
 - Stories / interviews

 Additional Media :

 - Unused artwork
 - Level designs / ideas scrapped (like spyhunter helicopter stage).
 - sound/music

 
 Ive got a lot of repeat here.. but I think the point gets across.
The only question is then how to make it, and how to keep it safe yet very interactive, with it
easy to add new materials to.

 Anyone who has ever went to the great site "Unmamed"  can attest to a great wealth of data that is so sparse in parts, and not easy to see in any way that is useful / easy.  That alone makes it hard to update, see what roms/art/info is needed,  hard to know what info needs updating, hard to know keep track of missing data and prototype stuff... no easy or widespread way for people to input new data... and so much more.

 When you get a visual missing part - people kinda want to fill them out of mere OCD style of data collecting.   If they dont see it as missing... they wont know, and wont make much effort to seek out that missing data.  And when data is so widespread, and easy to upload stuff to, you will surely start to see major amounts of rare stuff start showing up from all over the place.