60 in 1 vs MAME

[shredso]

I'm converting a cocktail for classic games.  I have an upright with all the bells ans whistles so this will be pretty much for Donkey Kong, Galaga, Ms Pac Man, maybe a hand full of others. I'm thinking the 60 in 1 will be cheaper, easier and maybe better for guests to navigate.  obviously I will have more options using MAME but if I'm only playing a few games I don't think it maters.  Any thoughts?

[Malenko]

the 60 in 1 is MAME? 

[DaveMMR]

I'm more of a fan of MAME than the 60-in-1's.  You may think you only want those 60 games, but then you'll remember "this one" and "that one" and you'll regret not having more flexibility.  

Also, you can update MAME easily when they fix certain glitches in games - not so much with the 60-in-1.  

And then you can add console games as well.

Finally, MAME is a little more legit than the 60-in-1 (i.e. they're not charging you anything to use it).

[BobA]

I have both and here are some points to consider.

The 60 in 1 has its own front end and can be set for cocktail cabs.  It is not an instant on as it has an initialization period where it shows a count on the screen.  You can get away with 2 buttons as 3 are only used for one game afaik.  The board is very small and can be powered from an arcade type switching PS (also small).  The board has a trackball interface built in.  The 60 in 1 boards are cheap. They plug directly into a jamma harness.  Can be run on an arcade monitor or a vga monitor.  Suggest using a PC type speaker set as the speaker connected via the jamma harness is very noisy.

Mame has more versatility and game choices but this can be too much. A front end of some sort should be installed to make it more user friendly. An older computer is available for free to play the older games but the interface costs about 50% of what the 60 in 1 costs. The computer needs a larger PS and is larger then the 60 in 1 and some work must be done to hide windows.  A windows computer needs work to run on an arcade monitor.

Overall if you want it simple and are happy with the games go 60 in 1.

If you like to tinker and make it look special go computer and mame.

[Haze]

Please stop using / encouraging the use of these 60-in-1 etc.

They're taking a legitimate product (MAME) and illegally selling it, and encouraging commercial use of it while failing to make anybody aware of the actual legal situation surrounding their product.

This gives MAME, and the classic gaming scene a bad rep with the arcade manufacturers who will happily overlook people doing things for a bit of fun, but don't like their market eroded with actual commercial competition.

I'd prefer to see an outright ban on their discussion here, they're becoming too much of a problem.

Please support the actual devs, and arcade manufacturers, not the people trying to take advantage of them for their own profit.

[amendonz]

Wow is it that time of the week already? I'm sure the last thread just ended. Maybe driverman will stop by to clarify.

[shredso]

I dont think I'll be missing any games because I have an upright MAME cab with trackball, spinner, U360's etc.  I just wanted a more authentic feel for a few games, mostly DK, Ms Pac Man and Galaga.  4 way joystick, 1 button, nothing more.  If I go with MAME the gamelist would likely have 15-20 games.  These games are emulated perfect as far as I can tell in MAME right now.  If the 60 in 1 was as good as my MAME is I'll be happy.  I didn't realize the 60 in 1 was taking tech from MAME and selling it.  I'll take that into consideration also.

[Haze]

I dont think I'll be missing any games because I have an upright MAME cab with trackball, spinner, U360's etc.  I just wanted a more authentic feel for a few games, mostly DK, Ms Pac Man and Galaga.  4 way joystick, 1 button, nothing more.  If I go with MAME the gamelist would likely have 15-20 games.  These games are emulated perfect as far as I can tell in MAME right now.  If the 60 in 1 was as good as my MAME is I'll be happy.  I didn't realize the 60 in 1 was taking tech from MAME and selling it.  I'll take that into consideration also.

The 60-in-1 is _old_ MAME tech, the emulation of the majority of the things it runs has improved significantly since then.  That's how it's able to run on such a low-spec board, it's effectively a port of the versions that were done for handheld devices with an arcade frontend and pre-booted states tacked on.  The sound especially on them is *terrible*

[BobA]

Please stop using / encouraging the use of these 60-in-1 etc.

I'd prefer to see an outright ban on their discussion here, they're becoming too much of a problem.

Is that like not talking about racial prejudice or sexual preference because it is a problem?  A discussion
of the pros and cons of these boards and real facts about them is a better choice than banning their discussion.

[jimmy2x2x]

The 60-in-1 is _old_ MAME tech, the emulation of the majority of the things it runs has improved significantly since then.  That's how it's able to run on such a low-spec board, it's effectively a port of the versions that were done for handheld devices with an arcade frontend and pre-booted states tacked on.  The sound especially on them is *terrible*

I was considering one for a project, after hearing those facts I will steer well clear, thanks!

[danny_galaga]

I've noticed that most machines i've played with X in 1 boards installed tend to have a few games that are crap/don't make sense on that configuration. A cocktail especially would mean a number of the games on the menu are pointless...

[amendonz]

My machine came with a 311 in 1. Just terrible, some games ran fine neo geo etc, cps3 was horrible, 3rd strike wouldn't even load at all, it would just reboot the system lol 

[Haze]

Please stop using / encouraging the use of these 60-in-1 etc.

I'd prefer to see an outright ban on their discussion here, they're becoming too much of a problem.

Is that like not talking about racial prejudice or sexual preference because it is a problem?  A discussion
of the pros and cons of these boards and real facts about them is a better choice than banning their discussion.

I'm sure if you started up a bunch of racist threads saint would be pretty quick to lock / delete them tho, and several racist phrases are censored already.

Basically by encouraging the use and sale of these things here people are supporting the industry that's making them (and thus ripping off both the original manufacturers and emulation developers in the process)  It's actual real plug-and-play arcade piracy, and a major problem in an already fragile industry (who is going to make / sell / import new games if they can't sell them because arcade ops perceive these illegal boards to be better value)  I'm pretty sure BYOAC wasn't set up for this purpose, just as MAME wasn't designed for this purpose.

These things are offensive to the entire industry.

[jimmy2x2x]

You raise some great points Haze, but an open discussion stating the facts (as you have) can be quite enlightening for some of us who haven't had the '60 in 1' experience.

Initially it sounded like a quick clean way to play some classics on an existing jamma cab, now it sounds like a load of crap.

[gShooter]

Please stop using / encouraging the use of these 60-in-1 etc.

I'd prefer to see an outright ban on their discussion here, they're becoming too much of a problem.

Is that like not talking about racial prejudice or sexual preference because it is a problem?  A discussion
of the pros and cons of these boards and real facts about them is a better choice than banning their discussion.

I'm sure if you started up a bunch of racist threads saint would be pretty quick to lock / delete them tho, and several racist phrases are censored already.

Basically by encouraging the use and sale of these things here people are supporting the industry that's making them (and thus ripping off both the original manufacturers and emulation developers in the process)  It's actual real plug-and-play arcade piracy, and a major problem in an already fragile industry (who is going to make / sell / import new games if they can't sell them because arcade ops perceive these illegal boards to be better value)  I'm pretty sure BYOAC wasn't set up for this purpose, just as MAME wasn't designed for this purpose.

These things are offensive to the entire industry.

Always looking for more information, couple of questions concerning your viewpoint.  As it stands currently, I have a MAME machine, a 60v1 in the works, and a few original arcade machines.  Over the years I have had anywhere from 10 arcade machines and 5-6 pins in my collection.  So, while I am not arguing one perspective or another, I just wanted to clarify a few points for myself in the discussion.

1. (and thus ripping off both the original manufacturers and emulation developers in the process)

Are you speaking to legit ROMs or code from original games and the emulation software that supports playback of the ROMs?  I thought regardless of medium, ROMs by their nature were not legal due to copyright issues unless you happen to have purchased the ROMs from the original owner?  I would go a little further and say that I know of very few people who use MAME and actually own the ROMs they use.  I dont know percentages, but that would be an interesting statistic.

2. (who is going to make / sell / import new games if they can't sell them because arcade ops perceive these illegal boards to be better value)

Although I have seen examples of arcade ops who have used multiboards in arcades, I dont think thats the norm; at least from my experience.  Also, I think that new games wouldnt be an accurate example as the electronics, code, and inputs easily make them too complex for the multiboards.

3. I'm pretty sure BYOAC wasn't set up for this purpose, just as MAME wasn't designed for this purpose.

BYOAC has been and continues to be immensly helpful in about every aspect of repair, restoration, and as a knowledge sink for all things related to our hobby.  As for MAME, what would you consider the purpose of MAME to be?

[jimmy2x2x]

As for MAME, what would you consider the purpose of MAME to be?

I was always under the impression that MAME was a preservation project, the preserve and faithfully emulate coin operated video games of a certain age.  Without MAME many games might be gone forever, only existing in video clips or photographs.

See http://mamedev.org/ for the official description.

[Hoopz]

For those that don't know, Haze is (was?) a Mamedev, so I'm pretty certain that he knows exactly what Mame's purpose is. 

[DKong101]

Since your preference is the authentic feel with 4-way joysticks and one button, I would either use the 60-in-1. However, I have never used one and judging from the reviews, you might just want to use those 60 games' ROMs in a MAME setting to get the best result

[LeedsFan]

Well I for one did not know that those 60-1 in one boards used old Mame technology. And I didn't know that the sound would be crap on them. Just pointing out that if you banned their discussion people would not be enlightened. I agree with nearly all what  Haze said apart from the banning of the subject.

[gShooter]

As for MAME, what would you consider the purpose of MAME to be?

I was always under the impression that MAME was a preservation project, the preserve and faithfully emulate coin operated video games of a certain age.  Without MAME many games might be gone forever, only existing in video clips or photographs.

See http://mamedev.org/ for the official description.

I got the preservation project aspect of MAME.  And I fully appreciate all of the hard work that goes into this type of project and I think its a great endeavor.  But unless I am wrong, in many cases the use of ROMs (unless the rights were actually purchased) regardless of the emulator infringes copyright?

From earlier discussion, if in fact these boards are using MAME code as the OS for their operation which apparently Haze had a part in creating, then I would agree that they are stealing his work.

To add another level to an already crowded discussion, how about the JROK boards or the programmable boards?  Do they also use, at their lowest level, a version of MAME?

[CheffoJeffo]

To add another level to an already crowded discussion, how about the JROK boards or the programmable boards?  Do they also use, at their lowest level, a version of MAME?

Jrok -- Not that I am aware of -- the only emulation is in the sound processing.

Programmable AS boards -- I believe that Aaron confirmed that Clay's boards had no MAME in them.

[Malenko]

1. (and thus ripping off both the original manufacturers and emulation developers in the process)
I would go a little further and say that I know of very few people who use MAME and actually own the ROMs they use.  I dont know percentages, but that would be an interesting statistic.

Then you dont know many people, or the people you know arent the norm. Yes I do play games in MAME I dont own (mostly because I cant find the boards to purchase) but I own A LOT of arcade PCBs, more then you for sure but theres people on here who put my PCB collection to shame with their cabinet collection alone.

[FrizzleFried]

I've had and sold 60-in-1 boards.  They are what they are... a Chinese "toy".  The emulation in many of the games is done well... but for an equal number of games the sound is horrid (as Haze points out).  Also as Haze points out,  they run on an old old old ass version of MAME.  Hell,  I think MAME now actually EMULATES the 39-in-1 which is MAME!! (MAME emulating MAME?!)... anyway... they are cheap... they work (most of the time)... but they're inflexible... limited... annoying (the sound)... and should be avoided IMHO.

As for banning the discussion here... i think it hurts more to do that than helps.  Just be honest about what they are (MAME) and let the person asking the questions make his/her own determination.

Personally... I replaced BOTH of my 60-in-1 boards with Arcade Shop boards... which,  unfortunately,  are now only available as bootlegs of the original or used... (but that is another story...)

[gShooter]

1. (and thus ripping off both the original manufacturers and emulation developers in the process)
I would go a little further and say that I know of very few people who use MAME and actually own the ROMs they use.  I dont know percentages, but that would be an interesting statistic.

Then you dont know many people, or the people you know arent the norm. Yes I do play games in MAME I dont own (mostly because I cant find the boards to purchase) but I own A LOT of arcade PCBs, more then you for sure but theres people on here who put my PCB collection to shame with their cabinet collection alone.

I didnt make mention of PCBs.  I own a few as well.  I hate speaking in generalities, but most people who speak of MAME usually speak to having 1000's of games available to them....from arcade to console.  In those cases, I am positive that the people who make those statements, do not 'own' the vast majority of the ROMs they are using.  You bring up a valid point in that users of this forum arent the typical gamer, builder, collector (whichever term you prefer) when it comes to arcade games.  But I will go back to my original statement in that the majority, maybe not he majority here, of users do not own the ROMs they are using.

As for PCBs, is it legal to make a copy of the ROM on the PCB for emulation?  From discussions in different threads, I was under the impression that just because you own the PCB doesnt mean you own and can do whatever you want with the ROM.  I dont know if the Digital Copyright Act well enough to make a statement about the validity of ROMs on PCBs created before the DCA was enacted.  I know plenty enough about software as I was a commercial programmer for 3 years, but the code residing on the PCBs is a little fuzzy.

[gShooter]

I've had and sold 60-in-1 boards.  They are what they are... a Chinese "toy".  The emulation in many of the games is done well... but for an equal number of games the sound is horrid (as Haze points out).  Also as Haze points out,  they run on an old old old ass version of MAME.  Hell,  I think MAME now actually EMULATES the 39-in-1 which is MAME!! (MAME emulating MAME?!)... anyway... they are cheap... they work (most of the time)... but they're inflexible... limited... annoying (the sound)... and should be avoided IMHO.

As for banning the discussion here... i think it hurts more to do that than helps.  Just be honest about what they are (MAME) and let the person asking the questions make his/her own determination.

Personally... I replaced BOTH of my 60-in-1 boards with Arcade Shop boards... which,  unfortunately,  are now only available as bootlegs of the original or used... (but that is another story...)

Solid points.  I regard the 60v1 boards in the same manner.  I think they are interesting toys and as with anything, offer a project for me to complete.  I enjoy playin the old arcade games, many of which I played growing up, but for me, half of the fun is building, restoring, finding old machines which end up being projects to complete.  Very seldom have I ever kept a machine more than a few months once its completed.  I guess if I ever get my hands on a real Robotron or an 8 Ball Deluxe pin, then I would definately keep those as they are my favorite.  

As it is now, I get to play 8 Ball Deluxe only when I hit Vegas and stop by the Pinball Hall of Fame.

[RayB]

pleaaaaaase gShooter, do not take us down this road! It always ends up in some big old 6-page thread of arguing between people who know the facts and those who don't want to know the facts in order to uphold some personal fantasy version of the truth.

Regarding your question about doing things with ROMs with PCBs you own... the DMCA does make exceptions for the purpose of getting obsolete hardware functioning again, the specifics of which I dont want to go into for the above stated reason... let's let this horse free now.

[CheffoJeffo]

I hate speaking in generalities

So don't.

 

[SavannahLion]

pleaaaaaase gShooter, do not take us down this road! It always ends up in some big old 6-page thread of arguing between people who know the facts and those who don't want to know the facts in order to uphold some personal fantasy version of the truth.

+1

[gShooter]

pleaaaaaase gShooter, do not take us down this road! It always ends up in some big old 6-page thread of arguing between people who know the facts and those who don't want to know the facts in order to uphold some personal fantasy version of the truth.

Regarding your question about doing things with ROMs with PCBs you own... the DMCA does make exceptions for the purpose of getting obsolete hardware functioning again, the specifics of which I dont want to go into for the above stated reason... let's let this horse free now.

Was just clarifying a few points for myself.  Not meaning to infringe or make anyone mad.  I know there are many with much more info than I so I wanted to ask a  few questions I always wondered about.  Now back to our regularly scheduled programming...