Decent PC for MAME?

[runninblue]

Hi all,

I'm starting my very first cab project from scratch and I have a question about PC specs (if this is in the wrong forum I do apologise). I realise that PC specs for mame can be very subjective but a little help will be much appreciated.

Obviously I don't want to spend too much on the PC since a beast is not needed for MAME generally. A local PC shop is selling a pre-built system for $399 (AUD). It consists of:

AMD Dual Core 2.9GHz 7MB Cache CPU
Gigabyte 740 AM3 Mainboard
2GB DDR3 1333 Memory
WD/Samsung 500GB SATA Hard Drive
Samsung/LG DVDRW 22x Dual Layer
Mini ATX Case and 430watt PSU

My question is, is this PC good for running MAME? Is it overkill? Is it not enough in some area?

Thanks everyone.

EDIT: I should have mentioned that I would like to play as many 3D based games as possible aswell as older games.

[shfifty]

With those specs i'd say its overkill for most 2D games, but should be suitable if you want to run the 3D stuff. I'm still only using a P4 1.8 with 384mb ram and that runs pretty much everything full speed except for 3D and NBA hangtime.

But for $399 thats a pretty good deal.

 

[runninblue]

Thanks shfifty.

I suppose if I wanted to add a graphics card the cheapest current one on the market will suffice for MAME right?

[Blanka]

Is there no graphics card included? Or does it have on board graphics. The later is OK for MAME too. The only thing that is used is upscaling for high-res LCD's, and onboard graphics is perfect capable of that.
399 AUSD? Isn't that already the price for a non OEM Windows license there?

[shfifty]

yeah i would just stick with the onboard graphics. It should have it, even my crappy asrock MB has it.

399 AUSD? Isn't that already the price for a non OEM Windows license there?

isnt windows free?

[runninblue]

Is there no graphics card included?

It didn't state if it has a graphics card or on board graphics and since it's a budget pc i assumed it didn't.

[Eddie_Brock]

You only need a graphics card if you need a specific output that the on-board does not (ie S-Video).
MAME does all of its graphical processing through your CPU and RAM, so having a top of the line video card will not help you greatly.

[JohnEDollar]

yeah i would just stick with the onboard graphics. It should have it, even my crappy asrock MB has it.

399 AUSD? Isn't that already the price for a non OEM Windows license there?

isnt windows free?

Micro$oft Windows has never been free....

[JODY]

Your proposed setup is way more than enough for most games.  If you like the newer ones some tweaking can make them fully playable too.

Different AMD dual core's running at 2.9 GHz will yield different results so I'm not sure which one they include.  I built a PC a few months ago.  It includes what was a cheap AMD thriple core at the time.  I think it has since been replaced with another model.  It is an AMD Athlon II X3 435 Rana 95W at 2.9 GHz.  I used 4 GB of DDR3 1600 Ram and a Gigabyte GA-MA785GMT-UD2H AM3 and 785G HDMI motherboard.  Note this super high speed RAM is not fully supported by many motherboards but is on this one.  The motherboard, CPU, and RAM cost me $275 in the US.  It is outputing onboard graphics via HDMI to an HD TV at full HD resolution for Windows but Mameuifx32 is set to auto resolution and decreases the resolution for games.  E.g. 1280 x 720 for Cruis'n USA.  Due to the onboard graphics, it uses 500MB of RAM for the graphics leaving 3.5 GB for Windows 7.  Windows 7's Windows Experience Index maxes out at a low memory figure when less than 4 GB is available to windows so these next figures are not fully accurate.

The Windows 7 experience figures are:
Processor 6.7
Memory 5.9 (but if I added just a little more RAM I've read it would max out the memory test score as this is very high speed RAM)
Graphics 4.4
Gaming Graphics 5.4

MAME makes heavy use of RAM so RAM is very important too...besides the CPU.
I'm able to run Cruisin' USA at 89 - 103% according to Mameuifx32.  During play is it mostly in the 96 - 100% range.  I'm running the CPU at normal speed.  No overclocking.

Note the above is for Windows 7 64 bit.

[oyama82]

my friend dont buy the amd they are not good for mame
buy an intel dual core 3.0 ghz with 2 gb ram(more is not needed)and a cheap video card
run windows xp64 or 7-64  and you will be fine

[runninblue]

Thanks everyone, that's good advice. Maybe a silly question but do shops still sell Windows XP 64bit now that windows 7 is out? Or maybe I have to ahem...download it.

Also one MAME cab maker is advising people to use TinyXP, a modded OS that streamlines Windows. I'm not asking if I should get it as it's illegal. Just wondering if anyone's heard anything negative about TinyXP.

[oyama82]

dont be silly,just download it
tinyxp is cool but is limited to 32bit,you need the 64bit xp version because mame runs much faster on that
or windows 7
avoid vista at all costs

[EvilNuff]

...Also one MAME cab maker is advising people to use TinyXP, a modded OS that streamlines Windows. I'm not asking if I should get it as it's illegal. Just wondering if anyone's heard anything negative about TinyXP.

Tinyxp is just a streamlined version of xp.  If you own a legal copy of xp then you shouldn't have any issues.  You can also use nlite if you prefer and make your own streamlined version, its pretty simple really.

[jimmy2x2x]

dont be silly,just download it
tinyxp is cool but is limited to 32bit,you need the 64bit xp version because mame runs much faster on that
or windows 7
avoid vista at all costs

Mame runs MUCH faster on xp 64bit?

What are we talking about here 5%, 10%?

[EvilNuff]

The primary benefit to a 64 bit windows OS is memory over 4 gig.  If you do not plan to ever go over 4 gig of ram you will see few benefits from a 64 bit version of xp or win7.  (There are some other slight benefits if the software is written specifically for a 64bit OS.)

[runninblue]

Thanks again for the tips. I was gonna go with 4 gig + of ram anyway to future proof my cab a little bit so I think I will go with Windows Xp 64 bit.

I'm now contemplating buying the pc parts and putting it together myself but I'm a bit reluctant as I haven't played around inside a pc since high school (12 years ago).

[jimmy2x2x]

The primary benefit to a 64 bit windows OS is memory over 4 gig.  If you do not plan to ever go over 4 gig of ram you will see few benefits from a 64 bit version of xp or win7.  (There are some other slight benefits if the software is written specifically for a 64bit OS.)

Apparently mame runs upto 30% faster on xp64, I'm going to give it a try!

[oyama82]

there is no need for 4gb even for the future,believe me with 2gb your cabinet will be smooth with xp64 or windows7
64bit version windows with 64bit version mame can go up to 25-30% than 32bit versions

[XNIF]

somewhere in this forum someone benchmarked the complete set. And you can almost play any mame game on a ION system with a 9400m integrated graphics card and an Atom 330.

[oyama82]

no you cant
its good only for oldies
if you try tekken tag and up it will struggle

[runninblue]

So to sum up:

A 64 bit processor (preferably Intel and probably dual core)
Windows XP 64 bit
2 gig of RAM max
Graphics card optional (but on board graphics recommended)

A basic summation but is this the general consensus?

EDIT: remember I want it to run smooth as a baby's balls where possible!

[Rick]

So to sum up:

A 64 bit processor (preferably Intel and probably dual core)
Windows XP 64 bit
2 gig of RAM max
Graphics card optional (but on board graphics recommended)

A basic summation but is this the general consensus?

EDIT: remember I want it to run smooth as a baby's balls where possible!

Then you want a video card.  Onboard video is slower than a video card.

[oyama82]

onboard videocard is enough for mame
if you need for other emulators,then buy an extra pci-express card,but a cheap one

[ragnar]

It might be just me, but isn't processor speed more important than dual core with emulation?  I'd assume that a single 4 GHz CPU will outperform a dual core 3 GHz setup with regards to emulation.

Reasoning being, I don't think many games (until more recent) have been made for multiple processor systems.

Or are the emulators actually written as multithreaded programs?

[oyama82]

new mame versions support dual core
so you need a good dual core!

[Rick]

onboard videocard is enough for mame

Define "enough".  If by that, you mean "to play the classic games", then I would agree with you.  For some, however, you can enjoy a bit of a speed boost with better hardware.

[oyama82]

its enough for ALL mame games (tekken tag,mortal kombat 4,san fransisco rush,etc)
mame doesnt care for video card like it cares for raw cpu power
and dual core motherboards have good enough onboard vga anyways

[Ginsu Victim]

its enough for ALL mame games (tekken tag,mortal kombat 4,san fransisco rush,etc)
mame doesnt care for video card like it cares for raw cpu power
and dual core motherboards have good enough onboard vga anyways

I've seen a difference many times using better cards versus crappy cards/onboard video.

[oyama82]

we are talking about cards like intel 3100,hd4500,nvidia 8200, and other current onboard cards
these cards have no problem running mame fullspeed

now if you mean Sis,VIA and other older chips,ok,these are not enough for recent mame versions

[Hoopz]

Avoid XP64 if possible. You'll run into driver issues with it.  I'd suggest Win 7 64.

[Rick]

mame doesnt care for video card like it cares for raw cpu power

True, and by using onboard video, you are taking CPU cycles.  Thank you for making my point for me.

 

[oyama82]

I think you people dont know enough about pc hardware and which is the correct for one job or other
believe it if you want or not,a recent onboard card by intel,nvidia or ati is very enough for mame emulator

as for xp64 it will not be a problem for mame only usage,drivers for sound,motherboard and vga are always available
,if you want to add more things then ok,go to windows 7

[Rick]

I think you people dont know enough about pc hardware and which is the correct for one job or other
believe it if you want or not,a recent onboard card by intel,nvidia or ati is very enough for mame emulator

I beg your pardon, sir.

I'll have you know that I have been a computer technician for over 20+ years now, and currently hold the position of "National Technical Consultant" for Canada's largest shipping company.  Before you go throwing out insults, I'd like to ask you to go read a book on current computer hardware.  You might just find your 'opinion' is not correct.

[oyama82]

its not who you are its what you can prove
prove it first that onboard video cards are not enough for mame

we are talking for mame only ok?

[Rick]

Read this:

I think you people dont know enough about pc hardware and which is the correct for one job or other

This is why I responded to your comment as I did.  You are trying to tell people that it doesn't matter if they have a video card or not if they have onboard video, and you even went so far as to say this:

mame doesnt care for video card like it cares for raw cpu power

 

prove it first that onboard video cards are not enough for mame

Oh, I guarantee there might be certain motherboards onboard video cards available today that can run most of the MAME games without issue, but it's not a simple blanket statement that you need to be aware of here.  Sure, if you're running MAME 0.139 without a front end and no other resources, then I'm sure there are a lot of mobos that will support this with little issue.

What if someone is running a game with full LEDWiz support as well?  Does this program not take CPU cycles, when configured for maximum effect?  What if someone is running a cab that's attached to an internal wireless LAN, and has a full firewall and anti-virus?  That will also affect the number of CPU cycles the system has, and I hate to tell you, if you're running onboard video and using your CPU cycles on other programs, your video can be affected.  I know my cab will, when I complete it.

My point is this.  You don't have the prior knowledge to know what people are going to build without asking questions, and you certainly do NOT have the right to call others' experience into account when they're trying to give an opinion that differs to your own.

[jimmy2x2x]

Test it on a low end system and you will see for yourself. (athlon 3200 / 512mb in my case)

Onboard intel graphics vs Nvidia 6200 agp made a world of difference to me.

This was the only change made to the system.
(yes the intel had the latest drivers, yes it was configured in every way possible)

The difference between around 30 frames per second vs 60fps in many scrolling games.

However my laptop also has onboard intel graphics and works well with mame, but this is a higher spec machine C2D 2ghz/2gb.

[oyama82]

here we were talking about mame pc only
if you want to do many other things with your pc,then ok even dual cores are not enough,nor 2gb ram,nor onboard vga card,nor onboard sound card

happy now?

[oyama82]

Test it on a low end system and you will see for yourself. (athlon 3200 / 512mb in my case)

Onboard intel graphics vs Nvidia 6200 agp made a world of difference to me.

This was the only change made to the system.
(yes the intel had the latest drivers, yes it was configured in every way possible)

The difference between around 30 frames per second vs 60fps in many scrolling games.

However my laptop also has onboard intel graphics and works well with mame, but this is a higher spec machine C2D 2ghz/2gb.

I was talking about recent onboard cards like intel gma not the older ones
in your situation you are correct,there is difference because older onboard cards were crappy

[Hoopz]

I was talking about recent onboard cards like intel gma not the older ones
in your situation you are correct,there is difference because older onboard cards were crappy

Ummon, did you create another account?   

You need to quit talking about everything here being black and white.  Different people have different needs, desired outcomes, etc.  Just because something meets your needs, doesn't mean that it'll meet everyone else's needs.

[oyama82]

I didnt ask your advice of how to say my opinion,ok?