Frankenpanel Help

[AzureKnight]

I am building my first arcade machine.  I plan on doing an all in one kind of mame machine and I know I am building a Frankenpanel.  I'm OK with that, my goal here is to try and make it as "nice" as possible.

Here is the layout, currently based on the mameroom.com cp (undecided if I am going with their plans or not but it is a good starting point).  Everything in the picture is NOT perfectly lined up, this is more of a rough draft phase.  The color coding is really to tell things apart and is not reflective of the finished product.

First up there will be a fair amount of 4 player action (Simpsons, TMNT, Gauntlet, etc).
Also, I love Karate Champ and Assault so support of those two games is a must.

All that being said....

The Yellow Joysticks for player 3 and 4 are rotary joysticks.
The Blue Joysticks are Happ competitions for fighting games and general use.
The Black Joystick will be a U360 for analog games and 4 way play (not super important to me)
The Red Joystick is a Happ compact top fire (this is really just for Assault, a game I love)
Trackball and Spinner, I don't see the spinner receiving much use and is real close to being dropped for now to save some money.

I plan on wiring up a coin door for the coins, that leaves the 4 player buttons and 2 function buttons.

So....how ugly is this beast?  Please be honest, I'm think skinned and looking for feedback good or bad.
Should I angle the two outer players buttons or keep them in line with the joystick?
Is there a better way I can lay all this out?

Should I drop the extra player 1 and 2 joysticks and play the dual joystick games at a really odd angle using the other player joysticks?  Has anyone tried this?  How well does it work?  If I do this the rotary joysticks would have to become the core player joysticks, how do people find these work with fighting games like SF2?

Should I offset the trackball to one side for ease of use?

I'll be honest I have a fair amount of uncertainty on this build and would welcome any and all input.

[AzureKnight]

It  would help if I include the image I think.....

[AzureKnight]

This would be a more common layout it seems, but it would force the dual joystick games to play at a really odd angle and the rotary sticks would become my primary two joysticks.  I'm not sure how I would feel about this one...

[drventure]

I think the outside players aren't going to be comfortable with the buttons placed where they are. For the right side player, the buttons will be almost directly UNDER the stick. Opposite for left side.

I'd shift the buttons up for the right, down for the left.

The thing to remember is that P3 and P4 won't be standing in front, they'll be off to the sides.

Whether you want to rotate the sticks is personal pref. I rotated mine, and they work just fine for me and everyone that's played it, but I know many people don't like em rotated.

[deepblue]

Here's my 4 player Panel. At 48 inches across I think it is "borderline" Frankenpanel...but not like some of the beasts I've seen in here. Might give you some food for thought.

Here was my mockup:


and here's what I ended up with:


The question of whether or not to angle P3 and P4 has been endlessly debated - you'll find fairly polarized opinion on the matter. I "personally" think that it is too awkward having them straight as everyone will be shoulder-to-shoulder. That said, if you angle them make sure you don't have sharp corners (for obvious reasons!) and make sure the viewing angle is ok. Lastly - I'd suggest doing something similar to what I did and put "markers" on your CP artwork to show the player what way is up.

Best advice I can give you is to read as many 4 player project threads as you can and draw your own conclusions based on other people's successes and mistakes.

Welcome to the forum/hobby!

[zallax]

Trust me, you can get all the controls you want on it.  You just have to expand the box a little and not round off as much.  My custom panel is the same width but an inch shallower than MameRoom's panel. 

[AzureKnight]

Zallax (or anyone with a two tiered setup),

Do you find any difficulty in reaching the "second tier" controls, like the 4 way, spinner, Tronstick?

[javeryh]

Don't you guys get annoyed with all the questions when people come over to play?  I find that "one cab to rule them all" works better in theory than in practice, at least for me...

[Endaar]

Your original design has no room for the trackball; you need a good deal of clearance to make it usable. I think like the pictures zallax posted, you need to move the P1/P2 main controls back and outwards to free up room around the trackball.

I think basically if the main games you want to play require specific controls, then you're going to have a hard time avoiding at least a frankenpanel-lite. My best suggestion would be to mock everything up and make sure you're happy with the layout. What looks good on paper doesn't always work the way you think it will.

Frankly I don't think you should really care if people think it's ugly. It's your cabinet. Build it the way you want it; just make sure it's usable and reasonably easy for a guest to understand.

Endaar

[AzureKnight]

So you are suggesting something like this to make the trackball more usable?



I plan on doing a full cardboard mockup to make sure it all works the way I want it to, but feedback like this is really helpful up front.  I know it will be a frankenpanel-lite, in fact that is what I am going for, the lite version.  As for the "ugly" factor, well, I at least want the thing to look respectable enough that people aren't instantly turned off looking at it or it ends up on crapmame!

As for the questions when people come over to play, yes, I'm sure that will happen but since mostly it will be the same people (small group of family and friends) I don't worry about that aspect much.

So does that design look more user-friendly?

[Malenko]

no such thing. You're gonna make a huge dokey 4 player panel and never have more then 2 ppl playing it at once with minimal to no spinner/trackball use.

[Paul Olson]

Don't you guys get annoyed with all the questions when people come over to play?  I find that "one cab to rule them all" works better in theory than in practice, at least for me...

I don't let people swap panels on my modular CP. They can play with whatever setup is on there. I get the "one cab to rule them all", and the guests get a completely uncluttered cp to play on. I have offered to teach people how everything works, which would give them permission to change panels, but so far no one has wanted to take the time. The frankenpanels definitely make it a little rough for guests since most won't care enough to learn what to do.

I am still surprised at all of the 4-player CPs being built. I almost never have that many people over. When I do, it is rare that 4 people want to play the same game.

To the OP, keep it as simple as possible for guests, or you will spend very little time actually playing.

[Endaar]

So you are suggesting something like this to make the trackball more usable?

That looks better to me, except I would move the spinner off to one side. I know it's asymmetrical, but with the spinner right in front of a trackball, it's too easy to hit with a game like Golden Tee.

Endaar

[zallax]

Because my panel is angled, I have zero problems with my tier controls.  When I use the four-way with 4 in-line buttons my arms hover over P1 buttons and the trackball.  When I play Discs of Tron (my favorite) my arms are hover over P1 and P2 buttons, plus, the DOT spinner is far enough from the 4-way that I never touch it, even with a heavy duty wrist flick.

My other recommendation is move the trackball down a little, like on my panel, so that the joysticks are not in the way of a left or right spin or on the 45 degree angles. 

Lastly,  I completely agree with Endaar, do not place your spinner above the trackball.  You will eventually jam a finger.  I would recommend the spinner be placed over P1 buttons and throw in a few extra buttons, in-line, over the trackball or over P2 buttons.

[AzureKnight]

no such thing. You're gonna make a huge dokey 4 player panel and never have more then 2 ppl playing it at once with minimal to no spinner/trackball use.

You're half right, I will see very little trackball/spinner play.  I'll occasionally play Rampart or Marble Madness, otherwise the trackball is secondary.  The spinner, well right now I am considering dropping it altogether.  The only thing keeping it is the concept that I could play driving games with it, but there is a good chance it is going to be dropped.

As for the number of people playing...I regularly have a gaming group over (tabletop board games, Dungeons & Dragons) so I can be certain we will fill 4 players whenever we want to.  We also host many of the family holidays so there will be some use by the in-laws.

keep it as simple as possible for guests, or you will spend very little time actually playing

I appreciate that advice, that is what I am trying to accomplish here.  I can only build one machine (for many reasons), but being an old school arcade junkie I want to support quite a few disparate games.  That is why I love the help here, you are all offering different and a lot more experienced views on how to find that balance between game support and making a monster that is unusable.

I would move the spinner off to one side. I know it's asymmetrical, but with the spinner right in front of a trackball, it's too easy to hit with a game like Golden Tee.

I often see people on here post about that, is Golden Tee the only game that has this issue?  I don't ever recall using a trackball that wildly...but then neither I, nor any of my friends ever played Golden Tee. 

I'll definitely move the trackball down, that only leaves the spinner to consider.  I could move it over, up, get rid of it...I don't know on that one.

Does the spinner work OK for any driving games?  If not I may just drop the thing entirely in an effort to simplify this panel a touch.

[javeryh]

The bowling games also need a lot of runway for the trackball.

[deepblue]

AzureKnight - my panel (above) has "just" enough clearance between the trackball and spinner to prevent smashing your hand into the spinner during a heated round of Golden Tee (or American Horseshoes!). If I was doing it over - I'd actually move the spinner completely out of the line of fire so you've got a clear path from the trackball to the plexi/monitor.

I can appreciate the comments re: "why all the 4P panels", but I think most of us build it because as kids we always dreamed about having a Gauntlet/TMNT/Xmen cab of our own and having a heated match. I've got 20 guys coming to my arcade launch party next month and we'll hit up all of the 4P classics - and even if I never use P3 and P4 again after that and just look at them, that's good enough for me.

[severdhed]

THe problem with having all of those controls, is that you spend so much time explaining to everyone how to play certain games, it can get frustrating.  Even people who have played my cabinet half a dozen times still ask me the stupidest questions.  Currently i have a 2 player panel with  two u360s and a trackball.  there are two admin buttons that light up and are labeled, exit and pause.  i still get people asking me how to exit out of a game or how to pause it, and people that try to play trackball games with the joystick.  i dont think i could have made this much simpler, but it is still too much to ask of most people.

as for the 4 player argument, i can see both sides.  after i built my 2 player cabinet, my friend decided he wanted one, he got a 36" gateway destination monitor (800x600) for free, so decided that a 4 player panel would be best.  so he has a gigantic 4 player panel with a trackball and spinner and dedicated 4way.  I'd say that 90% of the time it is only used to play vertical classics, mostly centipede, millipede, dig dug, and donkey kong.  but there are occasions when the others get used. 

i am getting ready to put together a 4player showcase cabinet next week.  even though, like my friend, i'd probably be content with only a 4way, trackball and about 3 buttons.   So I'm going to move my u360s into my 4player panel and only have 4 joysticks and buttons on it.  no trackball, spinner, 4way or any other stick.  that way it doesnt have a cluttered frankenpanel.  i will then take my 2 player cabinet, turn the monitor 90degrees and set it up with a single 4way stick, trackball, and 3 buttons.  I'd be willing to bet that 90% of the time, if i am playing arcade games by myself, it will be on the classics cabinet.  however i currently have two small children (3.5 years and 1.5 years, both boys) and a third one on the way in March.  both of my kids ask to play on the arcade cabinet pretty frequently.  my 3 year old loves TMNT and sunset riders, so i'll put him on a bar stool and we will sit there and play for a while... and my 1 year old always wants up to play when the two of use are playign these games.  so a 4 player cabinet just seems like a good thing to have.   i'm sure it will also be a big hit when we have family and friends over.  sure that doesnt' happen that often, but a few times a year, it will be awesome.  I dont too often have 4 friends over who would play TMNT or anything like that, but sometimes i will have 1 or two over, and then my kids sit there and throw a fit because they want to play too.  this way i get to play with a buddy, and my kids and mash buttons and have a good time as well.

 

[eds1275]

I am [still planning] on building a machine that supports 4 players - however for p3 &4 there'll be USB ports on the underside of the front lip of the CP. They can use wired xbox360 controllers... it's my machine, I get player one. Everyone else can just make do