Mini Trackballs? Possible?

[transfan]

Is there anything stopping one from using an actual trackball mouse (like a trackman), removing the case, and mounting it to a control panel?

my CP does not have a lot of space, and I would love to have access to a mouse on the cp. 

However, would it work well for trackball-based games?

If not, any other ideas?  I don't have much room for a 3" trackball

I've seen other hacks like deoderant balls to the same end.

[jholman76]

I'm not stopping you, if you are asking...

go for it, try it out. post the details, etc etc etc

[transfan]

I'm not stopping you, if you are asking...

go for it, try it out. post the details, etc etc etc

I was just wondering if anyone else had tried this before with successful results?  I would hate to waste the money buying a trackball for it not to work.

[Silas (son of Silas)]

I would imagine it would feel kinda weird for a while adjusting to playing with a smaller ball, but I see no reason why it wouldn't be possible. Give it a try and see how it goes.

[leapinlew]

I'm not stopping you, if you are asking...

go for it, try it out. post the details, etc etc etc

I was just wondering if anyone else had tried this before with successful results?  I would hate to waste the money buying a trackball for it not to work.

Yes, long before we had several trackball suppliers, people used trackball mice. There was a specific model designed for young kids that was especially useful. I believe it was made by Crayola. Once your done piddling around trying to get it to work, you'll see why no one does it anymore. Same for keyboard hacks.

[transfan]

I guess I will just omit the trackball, since I don't have room for a full-size one anyway.

Thanks!

[z]

On my first cab I decased the clear CompUSA trackball, leapinlew was right as I ended up disappointed with the results.  You can control things okay but the lighter trackball and lack of freespin change the feel for games like centipede and missile command.

[Ginsu Victim]

I use a Logitech trackball that I pull out of the coin door when needed. I have a space in the center of my control panel with enough room to place it. Works quite well for most stuff I play. One day I'll get a real one.

[Comtek]

I used the same track ball. I mounted it in the control panel and it worked fine other than the spin time is short but it works quite well

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

I've used that same trackball as well. It's got a nice small footprint. As I recall I "overclocked" the USB port up to somewhere around 700Hz for less backspin.

Of course the ball isn't held in very tight. On at least one occasional I caused it to fly off into the screen.

I also found the downward sloping angle of the comfortable way to use the ball a little off-putting for game play.

[Ginsu Victim]

Mostly I just play stuff like Centipede or Missile Command with it. No Golden Tee for me.

[transfan]

Check out



You might even be able to use the "scroll ring" as a spinner...

[z]

Nice find, only $30 w/free shipping.
http://www.amazon.com/Kensington-K72337US-Orbit-Trackball-Scroll/dp/B002OOWB3O/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1279056859&sr=8-5

That would be sweet for coming out of a coin door on a cocktail cab.

[Ginsu Victim]

Nice find, only $30 w/free shipping.
http://www.amazon.com/Kensington-K72337US-Orbit-Trackball-Scroll/dp/B002OOWB3O/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1279056859&sr=8-5

That would be sweet for coming out of a coin door on a cocktail cab.

Wow! Great price! I WANT!

[RayB]

Randy's supposed to make one that fits in a button hole.    (big wink to Randy)

Yeah you can use a track mouse, but the balls in those tend to be light, yes? So you don't get much spin. That certainly affects many trackball games that depend on getting some good ball inertia going.

[DeLuSioNal29]

I use a Logitech trackball that I pull out of the coin door when needed. I have a space in the center of my control panel with enough room to place it. Works quite well for most stuff I play. One day I'll get a real one.

I use this on my computer and (in my opinion) it's not great for MAME or gaming (Hamsterball).  You can control it, but fast movements like that on an arcade machine will not work great.  Poorly in fact.  My trackball is night and day compared to the Logitech.

DeLuSioNaL29

[BobA]

It has all been tried before but nothing beats are real arcade trackball.

[Ginsu Victim]

I use this on my computer and (in my opinion) it's not great for MAME or gaming (Hamsterball).  You can control it, but fast movements like that on an arcade machine will not work great.  Poorly in fact.  My trackball is night and day compared to the Logitech.

DeLuSioNaL29

That's why I said it "works quite well for most stuff I play," which means not every trackball game, only the ones I find decently playable with it.

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

While we're discussing PC trackballs, in my last 'scavenge parts from wherever' cab, I ended up with this:


The ball is reasonably large and worked quite well for almost all games that I played with it.

It is far from small however.

For scale:


edit: And for comparison, the prior trackball:

[bkenobi]

There are smaller arcade trackballs available.  The standard 3" one is rather large, but I recall there being several from 1-1/2" up to 3".  The case will be bigger than a standard PC trackball (probably), but it will include mounting hardware that the PC unit won't have.

1-1/2":
http://www.happcontrols.com/trackballs/56020000.htm

2-1/4":
http://www.happcontrols.com/trackballs/565500xx.htm

3":
http://www.happcontrols.com/trackballs/560100xx.htm

FWIW, I have that Kensington trackball.  I played around with it at the store and thought it would work well so I bought it (off ebay of course).  I never ended up doing anything with it, though.  Some day I'll get around to configuring it and giving it a try!

[RayB]

Too bad Happ's pricing on the small one is *INSANE*

[bkenobi]

Logitech mini trackball = $30

Happ 1-1/2" trackball = $250


Gosh, that's nearly a wash.   

[DashRendar]

The smaller the trackball, the more spinning it will take to move in a game.

Unless you change the poll rate.  But I think you would have less control than with a 3" trackball.

[BobA]

Here are alot of different trackball/mice.   Most under $20

DX link

[RandyT]

The smaller the trackball, the more spinning it will take to move in a game.

Unless you change the poll rate.  But I think you would have less control than with a 3" trackball.

"Poll rate" has nothing to do with this issue.  It's geometry+encoder resolution. 

In fact, it's not difficult to compete with a standard 3" Arcade Trackball.  The actual resolution of the normal 3" trackball (not our Electric ICE-TB...it has upgraded encoders), given a standard roller diameter of about .435", and a modern "mouse-style" interface, is 662.07 positions per revolution.  The formula is ((Ball Diameter * pi) / (Roller Diameter *pi)) * (Encoder Resolution *4).  Assuming the same size roller (which they aren't, but for the sake of argument), a 2.25" trackball would need an encoder having only a resolution of 32 to equal it.

Now consider dividing the size of the roller in half, and that effectively doubles the resolution given the same size ball.  Therefore, you can scale the whole thing accordingly and have a ball that is 1.5" and a roller that is .2175" and the resolution would still be the same as the standard 3" without changing the encoder resolution.

What does end up different with a smaller ball is your interaction with it.  A small ball with the same final resolution will be "touchier", as the surface you interact with will be smaller.  So even though 1 revolution on each of the balls moves the same amount of distance "on-screen", you don't need to physically roll your whole hand across the ball to get a half-revolution on a tiny ball, rather just a fingertip.

There are many possibilities for small trackballs, but a lot of factors need to be taken into consideration for "feel" of the control.  If it doesn't feel right, it's going to make a poor substitute for the normal "Arcade-Style" control.

RandyT

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

Just noticed this on Ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Traxsys-38mm-mini-trackball-NEW-ULTRAcade-MAME-DS48891-/380249681148?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5888a5acfc

looks pretty small.

[RayB]

$31.50 to ship an item that measures less than 2 inches...   

[newmanfamilyvlogs]

Code: [Select]

"US $5.44

United States

US Postal Service Priority MailŪ

4-5 business days"
Where did you get your figure from?

[RayB]

Code: [Select]

"US $5.44

United States

US Postal Service Priority MailŪ

4-5 business days"
Where did you get your figure from?

Ah yes, I'm in Canada, so once again screwed by paranoid american sellers. 

[bkenobi]

I shipped an item to a board member a few months back.  If I shipped to the US, it would have been ~$10USD.  Since it was going to Canada, USPS doubled the price to $20.  Apparently there is a mountain that the truck has to get over when crossing the boarder which adds considerably to the cost of gas.  Otoh, maybe it's a head wind...is it less expensive to ship from Canada to the US?

[RayB]

No, we Canadians enjoy higher postal services costs, and no mail delivery on weekends. I recently got 2 Xbox games in a padded envelope shipped from California. Cost to the shipper? $4.10 us.  Received in about 7-10 days.

I sent the same guy 3 xbox games, padded envelope: Cost me about $9 cad. Took almost 2 weeks for the package to get to the guy. Do you Americans pay taxes on top of your postage costs? We do.

[bkenobi]

Ok, well that's one difference then.  I sent a small and light box which required priority mail.  If you used a jiffy mailer, then that can still be 1st class mail (I think) which is MUCH cheaper.  $4 shipping for a couple xbox games seems about right.  $9 for 3 seems a bit excessive, but maybe there was insurance on your end?

IIRC, tax is built into the postage already.

[zallax]

Thank all of you for not bidding on the Tracksys 38mm trackball on E-Bay.  It made my purchase super cheap for my WIP bartop.

[Ginsu Victim]

Thank all of you for not bidding on the Tracksys 38mm trackball on E-Bay.  It made my purchase super cheap for my WIP bartop.

You're welcome. I almost pulled the trigger several times, but held off.

[z]

Apparently Amazon noticed us looking, since I posted on Tuesday the price has gone up from $30 to $33.


Nice find, only $30 now $33 w/free shipping.
http://www.amazon.com/Kensington-K72337US-Orbit-Trackball-Scroll/dp/B002OOWB3O/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1279056859&sr=8-5

[Ginsu Victim]

---Deutsche Frankfurters---.

[Bender]

Thank all of you for not bidding on the Tracksys 38mm trackball on E-Bay.  It made my purchase super cheap for my WIP bartop.

I just had to try one out
got a "buy it now" from the same seller for for $30 shipped

[RayB]

Thank all of you for not bidding on the Tracksys 38mm trackball on E-Bay.  It made my purchase super cheap for my WIP bartop.

The seller made it easy by charging too much for shipping to Canada.

[I/O]

For some games, I use a combination of stick and trackball. Hamsterball is one of them. Marble Madness I might use a stick instead of my trackball.

[leapinlew]

Marble Madness I might use a stick instead of my trackball.

WHAT?! That truly is Madness.