Need suggestions for hooking up original console controllers to PC.

[Dazz]

Ok, I know that I can use a Xbox 360 controller to play other emulators on my MAME cab.  However, I'd like to use original game controllers without hacking them. 

I've picked up
2 x NES Retro USB
2 x SNES Retro USB
2 x N64 Retro USB
2 x Sega Genesis USB adapters
2 x Playstation USB adapters
I'd like to add 2 Dreamcast controls as well and I'm searching around right now for some Dreamcast adapters. 

As stated before I don't want to hack the controls in any way as I still have the original systems and would like to keep them all usable.  My goal would be to create a gaming panel that all of the USB adapters can connect to, and then into the PC.  I'd like to be able to keep all of the devices plugged in to the PC and not have to re-configure buttons when the various emulators are launched via a front end.  Basically, I want to be able to disconnect the actual controllers, but leave the adapters plugged into the PC.  I'm thinking of the panel being hidden or covered with a cover that hides the reto ports, but needs to be easy to access so the kids can plug in the correct controller when necessary.

Any suggestions?

A second problem that I've run into is... that Windows likes to re-number USB devices when the PC boots.  If I have my 2 U360's plugged into my current USB hub and then plug in one of my N64 Retro USB adapters, the N64 adapter takes over as joy 0. This causes my U360's to switch to Joy 1 and Joy2 instead of Joy 0 and Joy 1.  I don't recall if I plugged my N64 adapter into a port number that was lower than my U360's, so it may be a simple solution.  BUT is there a way to tell Windows (7 x64) not to re-assign joystick ID's? 

[bkenobi]

You might be able to use one or more USB hubs to force the USB device ID to remain the way you want them.  IIRC, if you have a hub attached in one position on the motherboard so that Windows thinks it's devices are 1st on the list, they always stay there.  So, you could hook up your u360s to one hub that stays Joy0 and Joy1 and then plug the other controllers into a second hub such that they become a larger number.

I don't know if this has ever been documented or verified that it is always true though.

In my case, I made my Logitech gamepads Joy0 and Joy1 and leave them plugged in.  Then my CP stays as Joy3 in MAME.  It is a bit of a pain to get set up, but it hasn't been a problem in over a year (since I installed the Logitech controllers).

[garwil]

IIRC there's a program in the utilities bit of the Wiki that allows you at assign joy ids and keep them. Give it a whirl!

[BadMouth]

Any chance that a Playstation (original psx) lightgun would work with a playstation>usb adapter?

[bkenobi]

Any chance that a Playstation (original psx) lightgun would work with a playstation>usb adapter?

I checked a couple different ones (contacted companies selling the adapters, didn't try myself) and the answer was no.  According to them, you cannot use guns or steering wheels with those adapters.

[HaRuMaN]

Dreamcast to USB, use Trio Linker Plus (I or II)

[EVEGames]

Ok, I know that I can use a Xbox 360 controller to play other emulators on my MAME cab.  However, I'd like to use original game controllers without hacking them. 

I've picked up
2 x NES Retro USB
2 x SNES Retro USB
2 x N64 Retro USB
2 x Sega Genesis USB adapters
2 x Playstation USB adapters
I'd like to add 2 Dreamcast controls as well and I'm searching around right now for some Dreamcast adapters. 

As stated before I don't want to hack the controls in any way as I still have the original systems and would like to keep them all usable.  My goal would be to create a gaming panel that all of the USB adapters can connect to, and then into the PC.  I'd like to be able to keep all of the devices plugged in to the PC and not have to re-configure buttons when the various emulators are launched via a front end.  Basically, I want to be able to disconnect the actual controllers, but leave the adapters plugged into the PC.  I'm thinking of the panel being hidden or covered with a cover that hides the reto ports, but needs to be easy to access so the kids can plug in the correct controller when necessary.

Any suggestions?

Dazz,
I am currently working on a set of "retro ports" myself, although I am starting smaller, with one set of NES ports and one set of Atari2600/Commodore64/SegaMasterSystem ports.  Based on the systems you list above, I'm assuming you went with pre-wired USB retro ports, rather than the "retro kits" that you solder yourself (like the ones from RetroZone). 

It was easier for me, because Atari2600/Commodore64/SegaMasterSystem ports are readily available, in the form of standard industrial male 9-pin "DSub" connectors, and, I was happy to find out, reproduction NES ports are available at the following location:
http://www.parallax.com/Store/Components/Other/tabid/157/CategoryID/32/List/0/SortField/0/Level/a/ProductID/522/Default.aspx

My solution was to mount two sets of retro ports on the vertical panel underneath the leading edge of my control panel - one on the Player 1 side of the cab, and another on the Player 2 side.  My CP sticks out past the front of the cab, so the retro ports are mostly hidden from view unless you bend down and look underneath the control panel.  I went with a "sandwich" approach to mounting them - a thick fiberglass back plate, which I cut and routered to hold each connector in place from behind, and an aluminum front plate, which held the connectors tight against the back plate, and gave a nice clean finish to the front of the connectors.  Then I cut holes into the front panel of the cabinet with spade bits, so the back of the connectors and the wiring could be fed through, and four flat head wood screws went into countersunk holes in the corners of the aluminum plates to fasten the ports to the cab.

For you, with the number of ports and the varying shapes and sizes of all those ports, it will require some real creativity.  But one thing I would suggest is, again assuming you bought pre-made USB ports, de-case those ports.  The plastic housings on most of those ports are not very condusive to flush-mounting onto a panel.  There will surely be some de-soldering and re-soldering along the way to make it work.  But in the end, I can attest to the fact that there's nothing like walking up to your cab, loading up an old NES or Atari game, and plugging the classic OEM controller into your cab to play them like they were meant to be played.

One hint: JoyToKey (or a similar joystick remapping program) is the key to a seamless transition between your control panel and your retro ports.  You should be able to switch between your control panel and any of the aforementioned console controllers at will, without the need to run any batch files or load any special software, other than the JoyToKey program, which you should start up automatically with a shortcut in the Windows "startup" folder.

-EVE Games

[opt2not]

It was easier for me, because Atari2600/Commodore64/SegaMasterSystem ports are readily available, in the form of standard industrial male 9-pin "DSub" connectors, and, I was happy to find out, reproduction NES ports are available at the following location:
http://www.parallax.com/Store/Components/Other/tabid/157/CategoryID/32/List/0/SortField/0/Level/a/ProductID/522/Default.aspx

Thanks for the link, I was just looking for NES ports the other day!
Too bad they don't carry SNES ports too...got any leads to those?

[kronic24601]

...
My solution was to mount two sets of retro ports on the vertical panel underneath the leading edge of my control panel - one on the Player 1 side of the cab, and another on the Player 2 side.  My CP sticks out past the front of the cab, so the retro ports are mostly hidden from view unless you bend down and look underneath the control panel.  I went with a "sandwich" approach to mounting them - a thick fiberglass back plate, which I cut and routered to hold each connector in place from behind, and an aluminum front plate, which held the connectors tight against the back plate, and gave a nice clean finish to the front of the connectors.  Then I cut holes into the front panel of the cabinet with spade bits, so the back of the connectors and the wiring could be fed through, and four flat head wood screws went into countersunk holes in the corners of the aluminum plates to fasten the ports to the cab. ...

Pics? Please? 

[kronic24601]

It was easier for me, because Atari2600/Commodore64/SegaMasterSystem ports are readily available, in the form of standard industrial male 9-pin "DSub" connectors, and, I was happy to find out, reproduction NES ports are available at the following location:
http://www.parallax.com/Store/Components/Other/tabid/157/CategoryID/32/List/0/SortField/0/Level/a/ProductID/522/Default.aspx

Thanks for the link, I was just looking for NES ports the other day!
Too bad they don't carry SNES ports too...got any leads to those?

You may want to mod an SNES extension cable?

[opt2not]

You may want to mod an SNES extension cable?

Yeah probably. SNES extension cable with USB RetroKit mod would be fine.

[kronic24601]

I was thinking of hacking 2 SNES, 2 NES & 2 Sega Gen extension cords into a single ipac bypassing USB altogether ... I think since there is no analog input on them that would probably be the cheapest?? I was also thinking it would be the easiest with re-mapping issues, but I guess Joyto Key solves that (or so it was mentioned a few posts up).

[EVEGames]

Opt2not, unfortunately no leads on repro SNES ports.  Extension cables, if available, would be very useful.  Otherwise pre-made USB kits are the other option.

Kronic, I'll drop another post in the next couple days with a picture of the finished retro port, as well as the various components.  This stuff all lives at a buddy's house, and I only get over there once a week to geek out on the arcade cab. 

My 2 cents on wiring extension ports to an ipac (vs. individual dedicated USB retro kits), is I wonder if it would be as straightforward as one might think.  At first glance, given the fact you point out, that there are no analog controls on any of these joysticks, a logical assumption is that each button and D-pad direction should function just like an arcade pushbutton.  But in the case of the Sega Genesis, a look at the pinout shows that there may be some additional considerations above and beyond +5V, Ground, and individual button connections.  Take a glance at the Sega Genesis pinout on this site: http://www.msarnoff.org/projects/gen2usb/.  It talks about a "Select" line, and the need for the circuitry within the controller to take different actions based on the status of the Select line.  I may be WAY off base here, but I think it has something to do with the 9 pins of the Genesis controller not being enough to cover all the buttons, D-pad buttons, ground and +5V with dedicated pins for each, so it has to use this switching channel in some clever way.  I'm sure there are folks on this board who can clarify the issue. 

-EVE Games

[kronic24601]

No you are probably right ... everything I have tried to do has been more difficult than I first thought ... it's kinda "my thing". 

But seriously, while thinking about it, really, aside from the total "retro exp" ... you could still easily play Sega Gen games with an SNES controller no? I don't think my sensibilities would mind all that much. Especially considering I never owned a Sega G ...

For that matter, you wouldn't really need an nes controller either if you JUST did the SNES ... hmmm ... (or is this blasphemy?)

[opt2not]

No you are probably right ... everything I have tried to do has been more difficult than I first thought ... it's kinda "my thing". 

But seriously, while thinking about it, really, aside from the total "retro exp" ... you could still easily play Sega Gen games with an SNES controller no? I don't think my sensibilities would mind all that much. Especially considering I never owned a Sega G ...

For that matter, you wouldn't really need an nes controller either if you JUST did the SNES ... hmmm ... (or is this blasphemy?)

I can't pass up the NES controller. IMO it's the best console controller ever made. I'm serious, I love that thing. the d-pad is perfect...the size is great, and only two buttons...simple, but awesome.
I never liked the feel of the Genesis controllers, I found them uncomfortable due to size and shape, and their d-pad kinda sucks. The 3 buttons are kinda cool, only if you hold onto the controller "crane style" (right hand holding the controller with thumb underneath, and index, middle and ring fingers resting on the buttons). Think crane-style kungfu!

The SNES controller is also great, but it's my second to the NES controller.

Besides, just like arcade games, the proper control interface with it's respected game release is the only way to go.  I can't play Mega Man 1 - 6 with a SNES controller, that would just feel wrong.

[ShoLouie]

Everything you need is here...

http://www.raphnet.net/index_en.php

I used the 4snesnes kit to make a nice controller box for my cab. (soon to post on projects page)

[Dazz]

Everything you need is here...

http://www.raphnet.net/index_en.php

I used the 4snesnes kit to make a nice controller box for my cab. (soon to post on projects page)

Awesome!  I just ordered 2 Jaguar kits.

[yo1dog]

Check out this project I did a while ago. Same kind deal. There are links to all the components I ordered.




You may also notice my stylish 1 Player Start pushbutton I use as my power button B)

[opt2not]

Everything you need is here...

http://www.raphnet.net/index_en.php

I used the 4snesnes kit to make a nice controller box for my cab. (soon to post on projects page)

Thanks for the link!

Check out this project I did a while ago. Same kind deal. There are links to all the components I ordered.

You may also notice my stylish 1 Player Start pushbutton I use as my power button B)

That's a cool panel!

[EVEGames]

ShoLouie and yo1dog, Thank You, Thank You, THANK YOU for the links.  Many more possibilities have opened up with these resources.

Here's my first attempt at adding a "retro port" to my cab...

Picture 1, the Player 1 side retro port installed beneath the control panel (with custom Van Halen cutout in the middle, just for kicks).


Picture 2, close-up.  Note the rough rectangular cuts around the NES and A2600 ports, they will look MUCH cleaner when I refine them to fit the shape of the ports more precisely.  Also note the missing pins in the NES controller.  I've had a little trouble with these pins loosening on me.


Last one, a pair of unmounted plates.  Notice the recessed cutouts on the fiberglass plate for the tabs pf the NES port to sit in.  I need to do a similar thing with the A2600 port as well.

[Usul]

 Can the "raphnet" users confirm that these adapters/circuits run under vista 64?

Thanks!

[shateredsoul]

you're not worried about the clutter from the controllers?

I think from setting up my software I've realized that sometimes more isn't better... having the options of so many emulators means I'll spend a few seconds on one game, then move on to another, then move on to another system.

But then again, if you have the Nintendo controllers connected maybe it'll make you feel like playing nes more often

[EVEGames]

I think from setting up my software I've realized that sometimes more isn't better... having the options of so many emulators means I'll spend a few seconds on one game, then move on to another, then move on to another system.

Incidentally, I've come to the same exact realization from watching my kids and my friends play the cab.  Some times, too much choice is really no choice at all.  But that being said, if I'm going to have an Atari emulator in there, I'd much rather play it with an Atari joystick than an arcade control panel.  Same with NES.  For me, those two systems are the embodiment of the 2nd and 3rd generation of home consoles.  With 'retro ports', as we're calling them in this thread, I can pump the nostalgia quotient up to 11.  For me, that's the whole point of the hobby. 

[kronic24601]

I just got all my materials in ... but sadly I still don't know where I want to implement it into my cab 

oh and, shateredsoul, I will probably spend more time setting up and installing this thing than actually using it ... but for me it's the fact that I did it that makes me feel like I've accomplished something ... plus my imaginary cool factor goes up like 20 points.

[shateredsoul]

oh and, shateredsoul, I will probably spend more time setting up and installing this thing than actually using it ... but for me it's the fact that I did it that makes me feel like I've accomplished something ... plus my imaginary cool factor goes up like 20 points.

Ahh yes, I forget that part of the motivation.  Also, why not put them in a row? right underneath your cp, sort of why I'm building this to begin with

[kronic24601]

Well I have two swappable panels, so if I do that then I would be limiting my usage of these things to only 1 of the panels ... it's an option, but I'm not sure about it. IF I could do a really clean install, I'd consider doing it in my admin panel. ... but it's likely that I'll jack it up to look terrible.

[Dazz]

Well, I got my Atari Jaguar controls and chips from Raphnet.  I've got them almost done, but I can't figure out where the solder point for PB0 (white wire) is.  I don't see it anywhere on the PCB.

PB0  14  White  Row [North,*,0,#]

I've tested my connections and plugged the USB into my PC and everything works with the exception of the buttons connected to the white wire (North,*,0,#).

I also bought the 4 controller NES/SNES chip. I couldn't get the site above to order the SNES & NES ports.  I ended up getting some NES and SNES extension cables via Ebay.

Can the "raphnet" users confirm that these adapters/circuits run under vista 64?

Thanks!

I just tested and they seem to work fine under Windows 7 x64.  I don't see why they wouldn't work under Vista 64.

[shateredsoul]

Hey Dazz where'd you get the nes controller ports? I can't find those anymore.. found one on amazon from retrolink for $56 !! and ... i don't want to solder.

[Dazz]

Hey Dazz where'd you get the nes controller ports? I can't find those anymore.. found one on amazon from retrolink for $56 !! and ... i don't want to solder.

If you don't want to solder then your best bet is from RetroUSB.com. 

However, I am not going to use my retro USB ports on my cabinet. I'll keep them for use on my regular PC.  I've decided that the 4 way NES/SNES usb chip from raphnet.net is the way to go.  It does require soldering, but it will allow you to hook up to 4 NES & SNES ports to one USB port.  You can do 4 NES ports, 4 SNES ports, or any combination.  I'm going to do 2 NES and 2 SNES on my chip and planning on doing the soldering tomorrow.  I did the Jaguar usb and it works great, but I need to track down the solder location for the PB0 line 14  White  Row [North,*,0,#].  Guess I'm going to have to pull out the multi meter and see if I can figure it out since I haven't received a response from Raphnet.

[Dazz]

Ok, so I have a panel drawn up with the ports and their locations...  All of my ports are now done with kits from Raphnet.net.  Except for N64 and I'm still having problems sourcing Dreamcast to USB adapters or even kits. The Trio Linkers are no-where in stock.

However after several failed attempts at making the precise cuts in thin MDF for the ports; I'm finding that my wood working skills are lacking too much for this.  I'm not sure how else to go about making this panel.  The soldering and wiring is nothing to me, but just getting the panel created and looking nice isn't something that I can get right.

Any suggestions on making the panel itself?  I'm looking at having one made using real thin MDF, Plexi, or even aluminum.   

[Usul]

Hi Dazz,

the woodworking piece is also one of the challenges I am facing in this small project.
I tried various techniques and tools and ended up with good, but not perfect results using a router. As I cannot manage to get absolutely precise cuts, I am filling the gaps with "wood kit" (not sure about the English term, it is material like modelling clay that becomes rock-solid after application and can be painted).

However, this is also my first attempt and I would highly appreciate additional suggestions.

[sstralkowski]

I'm seriously eyeing up those N64 ports.  It'd bypass my need for U360 controllers to run on my MAME cab. 

[mr_doles]

Hey Dazz where'd you get the nes controller ports? I can't find those anymore.. found one on amazon from retrolink for $56 !! and ... i don't want to solder.

Found these on Amazon.  From what I have been reading the USB controllers are not that great and getting this adapter is the way to go.  Is that the gist of it.

[shateredsoul]

Sooo.. tempted... But, for me xbox 360 controllers work well for most systems.  The only controller that probably really needs an adapter is the n64... I never know how to map those buttons on my 360 controller. 

[Dazz]

Hey Dazz where'd you get the nes controller ports? I can't find those anymore.. found one on amazon from retrolink for $56 !! and ... i don't want to solder.

Found these on Amazon.  From what I have been reading the USB controllers are not that great and getting this adapter is the way to go.  Is that the gist of it.

Yup, I have one of those as well as an SNES one.  But for my cab I ended up getting the 4NES4SNES chip from Raphnet.net.   This will allow me to have 2 NES and 2 SNES ports hooked up to 1 USB port.  I should be getting my NES and SNES controller ports in the mail this week and will get them all soldered up.  I finally pulled out my multi meter and found the solder point for the Jaguar controllers and now have 2 working USB Jaguar controllers.  Just too bad I can't get Virtual Jaguar working in Windows 7 right now.  So far that is the only emulator that I can't get running in Windows 7 x64.

[shateredsoul]

Weird, I have it running at home on Win 7 64 pro.  Any idea what the issue might be? What emulator are you using?

[Dazz]

Weird, I have it running at home on Win 7 64 pro.  Any idea what the issue might be? What emulator are you using?

I got it running.  Had to download a newer version and it works.  Works great with the Jaguar USB controllers.

Would anyone happen to know if you can daisy chain the Clock and Latch signals of the NES controllers with the SNES controllers?  I know you can do the VCC, ground, but I'm not sure if the Clock and Latch signals can be.  The solder pads on the 4NES4SNES chip are really small and I'd like to not have to try to solder multiple wires to each pad.

[Goatz18]

I decided to turn an old PC I had lying around that I otherwise would have cannibalized and thrown away, and retooled it for an All-In-One-Console-Machine, completely separate from my MAME PC. That way all the USB connections can be hooked up at all times with no unplugging and re-plugging stuff in and out. I have two controllers of each, Atari 2600, NES, SNES, and Genesis hooked up. 6 USB ports were on the PC and I hooked up a 4 USB port PCI Card. A USB hub could also be used but I splurged.

I utilize two NES adaptors, two Atari adaptors, and two Genesis adaptors that I got from RertoUSB http://www.retrousb.com/index.php?cPath=21 and they work great. RetroUSB was sold out of SNES adaptors at the time so I got impatient and managed to find two Super SmartJoy SNES adaptors at some site for $10 each but I cannot remember the name right now, will try to find it though. They work great. I use Joy-to-Key to manage their controls and just set them up in their consoles' respective Emulator once, and that's it.

For DC I didn't even try to emulate, I bought a used DC and this box http://www.racketboy.com/store/sega-dreamcast/dreamcast-vga-box-svideo-av.html which works fantastic if you have an HDTV with VGA input. For PS2 same deal, my old fat PS2 model is still alive and kicking so if I feel the urge to play a PS2 game, it's around.

The best part is, because I am not putting this in a MAME Arcade PC build, I just keep all the wires lying around, I made no central panel of retro controller ports. I made a separate "retro station" with a couch and my PC hooked up to an old CRT TV. Wires are jacked into the front and back of my PC, all tangled in an 8 controller pile up. The way things should be when playing old "wired" systems, before you had to worry about charging your controller or scrounging up some AA's.

I also keep all my retro system roms on my MAME PC in case I feel like playing them on remapped controls using a joystick and buttons, but if you are going to use controller adaptors, I suggest a second PC. The on I use is just a 1.6 Ghz P4 512MB RAM and it runs N64 games fine, however I have not tested actual play of N64 games with N64 controllers, that's next on my list. I have two Mayflash N64 adaptors awaiting four N64 controllers that I have yet to obtain.

[Goatz18]

I got my Super SmartJoy SNES adaptors here http://www.jandaman.com/games.mvc?p=snesusb&Category_code=SNES.

[smalltownguy]

I got my Super SmartJoy SNES adaptors here http://www.jandaman.com/games.mvc?p=snesusb&Category_code=SNES.

Hey...$9.99 looks like a good way to go. You think it would be possible to hack this and connect two ports to it, one NES and SNES? I could run exension cables from this device to panel mounted conectors on my cab, and I could plug in either a NES gamepad or SNES gamepad depending on the type of console game I'm playinng. Obviously I wouldn't be able to use both at the same time (or COULD I....evil grin) but it would allow me to choose between the two.