How to choose a router.

[Marsupial]

I posted this in woodworking this morning
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=102515.0
but am getting to wonder... its about the tool, not about actual woodworking. Maybe in Main is better?

I'd like to stop at the hardware store on my way back tonight, tips would be more then welcomed.

When selecting your first router, what do you check?

Not that I find that routers are overpriced - they are precision tools at a fair price - but they are still a lot of money and I think it would be best to choose correctly the first time.

SOOOOooooo how do we choose?

What are the interesting specs?
What will make it a good buy instead of something you'd hate?


Is there something specific that we require for our cab building?


Do you simply take the cheapest you can and learn with it?

I saw a Black & Decker for 90$ at the local hardware store, didn't know what specs to compare. Figured I'd ask.

[Beretta]

i dont have a router yet but i've been reading up on them.

it seems the most expensive thing about routers is actually the bit's.. not the router it self.
they have HSS = high speed steal.. and carbide or carbide tipped.

you'll wanna go with carbide tipped bits, apparently they last 10x+ longer then the steal bits.. but they do cost more.

as for picking a router.

there are two kinds.. fixed and plunge.

fixed base routers have a sipmle metal base but they are more stable then plunge.
for edge work fixed based routers offer more stability.

for middle of the wood cut's plunge routers work best they ride on springs so you can plunge the bit down
into the wood while the router is on.. however since they ride on 2 springs and have a higher center of gravity.
they do not work as well for edge work.

some routers come with both bases.

you can do middle of the wood cuts with a fixed base but you have to tilt the router into the wood which can be tricky.. and sounds pretty dangerous to me.

since im more concerned with edge work my self im looking for a fixed base.


as for power.. they come in different ratings form small trim routers to heavy duty production routers to everthing in between.

the trim routers usually run about 1 hp.. and only have a collect that can take 1/4 inch shafted bits.

usually routers dont come with the thicker 1/2inch shaft collect until about 1 & 3/4 HP

some bits can' only be found in 1/2 and the 1/2 shaft makes them more stable during cutting.. so 1/2 is where a lot of the higher quality bits are.

usually routers large enough for 1/2 collect will also come with a 1/4 collect.

as for the best router maker?

i dont know.. in my research porter cable seems to be a very high quality but also high cost brand.
i believe the took over "rockwell" which if you see one of those routers (used) is older but also of high quality.

from what i can tell in my research the router is really the least important part, some have lights or finer adjustments but ultimately it's the bits that do all the work and have the greatest impact on the results.


hope this helps you a little.

[andrewbean90]

i  would look at buy sell and trade for 1 

[Marsupial]

you mean the buy/sell/trade here? Haven't found any...

Beretta, it does help a lot. Thanks very much.
I was there yesterday wondering what was the difference between fixed and plundge, and why it was important to me.

I am thinking I can do a "start hole" in the middle of the board with a drill same as with the jig saw, and prefer stability over gadgets.

I saw one with what I assume is a fixture for the vacuum cleaner hose, that's the only gadget I'd be interested in IMHO. Maybe light too.

What's the deal with 1/2" and 1/4" shafts?

I'll look again today, and likely go for the B&D one; my parents had their B&D drill for ages before it broke, can't go wrong with that?

[ids]

I read an article a while back showing differences between cheapos and pricey ones.  Ultimately the price difference buys you a high quality tool that can take a real beating and last for years.  If you are buying this for a cab, and maybe will find occasional uses beyond that, a cheap unit is probably good enough.  I got a cheap one, it had both bases and both collets (Rona brand).  No complaints so far, but no other experience to compare it against.

Having both collets I've found handy - never have to worry about the size of a bit.  The plunge base is sometimes useful.

[Rusty Shackelford]

Im happy with  a cheap router I brought its called Osaki I think. The best bit of advice I can give you is dont cheap out on the actual cutters. I brought a fairly expensive pattern bit and its been nothing but exellent. Cheap bits tend to be suprisingly blunt.

[javeryh]

I am EXTREMELY happy with my DeWalt.  I bought the package with the fixed base, D-handle base and plunge base and it is awesome.  Easily the best and most versatile tool in my shop.  HERE is a link.  IT was pricey but I use it for more than working on arcade cabs - it helps with every project around the shop.

[Marsupial]

ids I was looking at that rona kit, its interesting. There's a special this week at canadian tire on a just-fixed-less-powerful one; but I am thinking the plunge *will* be useful when I get the hang on the tool and start using it for other stuff...


If by then I want to buy another tool, where's the point?
lol


Thanks guys!

[Dafu]

Initially I bought a Ryobi, used, for something around $40. I would not recommend that brand. Its very cheaply made, the height adjustment ring broke after a while, and it never had a very good feel. I read of other people experiencing the same failure after a few weeks of use.

Later, after realizing that I like this woodworking stuff and an investment is in order, I bought a Hitachi router, considerably more expensive, but this is a quality tool, and I'm happy with it.

Having learned my lesson from Ryobi I would suggest you take into the consideration the quality of the level raising/lowering mechanism. If they look flimsy, steer clear.

[Franco B]

I'm on my fifth router at the moment.

My first was a fairly cheap 'own brand' model from B&Q which has been pretty good, especially for the price. It did the job for the little work on my first cab and on a couple of other projects and I still use it now and its permanently mounted in one of my tables.

My second and third were a pair of pretty awful Chinese Hongda routers that I used in my dual router table. One of them died on me and I had issues with the collets on the other so I soon slung them.

I then decided I would spend a bit more on a decent router and bought a Erbauer. I ended up taking it back before I had even started it up as the plunge was stiff and the micro adjuster didn't seem to work.

After those set backs I thought I would really do my homework. I consulted a few forums and read and watched some reviews and ended up buying the [Triton MOF001]

I have been blown away by the quality and features of this router and there really isn't a bad thing I can say about it.

I do a hell of a lot of table routing and the fact that the collet extends past the table height and then automatically locks the spindle is an absolute godsend for changing bits.

The ratchet/slide plunge feature is fantastic  You can also easily take the plunge spring out to make under the table adjustments even easier. The micro adjuster works really well and winds through the whole of the plunge range too.

There is a pretty good review of it [here] and a quick video here:



The through table winding is a great idea too although I don't really need to use it as I can access the bottom of my router table easily.

There is a larger 3.5HP model but I wanted the 2.25 as it would be easier to handle on top of the table.

It cost me £150 which I think is a bargain. I would buy another in a second.

Cutter quality definitely makes a difference but the right router can make work a pleasure or a pain, believe me.

[Beretta]

you mean the buy/sell/trade here? Haven't found any...

I saw one with what I assume is a fixture for the vacuum cleaner hose, that's the only gadget I'd be interested in IMHO. Maybe light too.

What's the deal with 1/2" and 1/4" shafts?

ya some have an attach ment for a wet/dry vac.

some bits ONLY come in 1/2 size shaft, typically the larger bits.. the thicker shaft makes it stiffer, stronger, and so it provides a cleaner cut.

almost all routers with less then 1 3/4 HP will have 1/4 collects.
most routers 1 3/4 HP or more usually come with 1/2 collects, they typically have 1/4 collets also.

a router with 1 1/2 HP or less almost always come with 1/4 collect ONLY, you can not use the 1/2 shaft bits in them.
so it would appear to be a good idea to get a router with both so you can have the best of both worlds.

smaller routers around 1hp are called trim routers, they're smaller easier to handle but can only use 1/4 bits.. typically these are used for trimming excess laminate from counter tops rather then serious wood working.

[severdhed]

i bought a really cheap trim router from harbor freight, it was $30 and has worked beautifully for everything i have needed to do with it

[crashwg]

I read a first router buying guide a while back (sorry I can't remember where) and one thing that stood out to me that others' haven't brought up was that they suggested to get a fixed base router for your first.  Chances are that once you start cutting stuff up with a router you'll want to do more and that will mean a router table at some point.  If you get one of those routers with a fixed base and plunge base you'll be swapping it in and out of three "bases" now and that's no fun.  Later on when you're more comfortable with how routers work and what you'll be using it for, go get a plunge router.

I would also suggest you get some hands on time with some routers at your local woodworking or home improvement store.  I especially think its a good thing to get familiar with the depth adjustments.  Many of the uses of routers call for making multiple passes at increasing depths and you'll want one that is easy to operate and accurately repeatable.  You would think that being such an important feature on routers that it would be almost guaranteed to have good adjustment but I've seen some pretty crappy ones.

[Marsupial]

I have bought the rona kit with plinger and fixed bases.
however, trying it tonight, it does not always start up. If it does the same thing again, I might have to bring it back for an exchange.

this said, its easier to use then I tought. Works like a charm. I really like this tool, and already see myself spending a fortune on various bits!

[Marsupial]

maybe now I should start a thread about how to USE a router...

something I dont quite understand. I am currently trying to shave off excess MDF on a 3/4 pannel, with a trim bit (the one with roler?)

The bit keeps on moving out of the shaft. I have to reposition it every 2 minutes, no matter how strong I make the tight.

I must be doing something wrong.

[Franco B]

Jigsaw the excess of your material off leaving the minimum amount of material (less than 1/18"), fix your straight edge/template and remove the remainder of your material.

Also make sure you are feeding your router/cutter in the right direction:



If your bit is coming out of the collet then something is wrong. You shouldn't have to swing on your collet spanner to secure the bit adequately.

Are you using the right bit for the collet? You may experience the type of problem you are describing if you are trying to secure a 6mm bit in a low quality 1/4" collet.

Just FYI:

Generally you don't want to be taking a full cutter width cut combined with a deep or full depth cut.

Eg you have a 1/2" straight flute cutter and are cutting 3/4" MDF

You can either take a full width (1/2") cut in 1/4" deep passes or you could trim off the excess with a jigsaw leaving around 1/8" maximum and then take a full 3/4" depth cut.

Obviiusly if you have a high HP router you may be ale to do this type of operation, even more so if you have a large router table.

[Marsupial]

Thanks.

Turns out there was dust in the collet, so it was not tightening good. But also, I wasn't going the good direction (added vibration?)  I didn't know there was a direction to cut. I've been puzzled by this all day.  I tried various ways to start the cut, different speeds, all kinds of things. Going in the right direction helped a lot. Did the whole excess in one pass. Spent about 2 hours on that with no success prior to posting here, but when it worked, it worked great.

I just need to get used to the tool, I guess.

Thanks a lot everyone for all the great tips.

[zafdor]

I thought I'd chime in with my opinion.  While I do have one or two Ryobi or the like low quality tools, I find that if you are going to make frequent use of a tool, it pays to buy quality.  While a Ryobi may cut perfectly when you get it, after a few years of being thrown under your workbench, it will not be the same, you need to treat it with Kid gloves.  Craiglist is a great place to buy high quality used tools, I would pay the same for a used but in good condition Porter Cable router as a new Ryobi.

I'll have to admit to having a plunge base and hardly ever using it (only once in a circle jig for my subwoofer), but I have a friend who claims they make a great substitute for a drill press for perfectly vertical holes.   When I was a woodworking n00b I would buy steel bits, but no more, only carbide.  Yup they cost a lot more, but if you're making arcade cabinets, you can get a set of bits that will do most of your tasks for $50-$75.  In fact, I bought a carbide set of Ryobis, and they are fine (I just don't like their power tools!). You will still be using your steel bit when it is old and dull, making crappy routes and being dangerous while you're at it.  I have yet to dull a carbide bit.    I If you really get into woodworking, the other posts are spot on, you will end up spending more on bits then the router(s).  A single set of rail and stile door bits start at $100.

Finally, my favorite topic and that is the router table.  I had been thinking of buying one for some time, then I chatted with a carpenter friend.  "Don't waste your money".  I ended up mounting my router in a piece of birch plywood and made a fence from some old formica, total cost $25, with a working surface much larger then a $150 purchased table.  If you are going to do a lot of routing, making a table is well worth the time.

[syph007]

I'll second the need for a 1/2 inch collet if you want a nice stable cut.  Someone here recommended to me to get a porter cable.  I did and have love using it.  I use it for so many more jobs than I thought a router would be for.  Every straight edge cut I make, it gets rought cut with a jigsaw, then routered with a straight edge to perfection.

I ended up mounting my router in a piece of birch plywood and made a fence from some old formica, total cost $25, with a working surface much larger then a $150 purchased table. 

got any pictures of that?  That sounds like a fantastic idea!

[zafdor]

got any pictures of that?  That sounds like a fantastic idea!

There is not much to see, but I have attached a pix nonetheless.  The router base attaches  via the screw holes with the bit protruding through the large hole.  Not shown are 2 quick clamps to hold the fence, plus the sawhorses and another 2 or 3 quick clamps to hold down the table to the sawhorses.  As you can see, I had to label the fence, so I don't accidentally throw it away as scrap.

[Franco B]

I built a similar table for my first one. I made one that could be held in a work mate:





For my second one I built a table that coud hold the two crappy Chinese routers for doing some production work:







I have since got rid of that and bought a decent router table and I also bought a smaller one so I can still have two routers/tools set up at once:



The large table is from Rutlands and is still on offer at £99.95 (down from £179.95) and is an absolute bargain if you consider what you get for your money. [Link].

[Digital Vandal]

After reading this and other threads about routers I've decided i'm even more lost than when I started.

The main types of router are plunge and fixed, the experts suggest fixed is best for a 1st router, however fixed routers are not readily available in the uk.

People advise on here to get a 1/2" shank(?) collet(?) but the majority of the routers I have seen say they have 1/2", 1/4" and sometimes 1/8" all on the same router.

All my tools are black and decker and would really like to buy a router from them too. I have found one which I believe will do the job, KW1600EA, but it seems that there are 2 or 3 different routers with different parts using the same model number.

Anyone fancy removing the confusion?

Thanks

[bkenobi]

If the router says it has collets for 1/2" (as well as smaller), you should be able to use tools that are 1/2" or smaller shaft.  The benefit is flexibility and the ability to use better quality bits.  All bits aren't available in the smaller 1/4" shaft size, so being able to use a 1/2" shaft will be a plus.

[gryhnd]

The main types of router are plunge and fixed, the experts suggest fixed is best for a 1st router, however fixed routers are not readily available in the uk.

My Porter Cable router is both a fixed and a plunge, depending on what base you slide the motor into. I use both.

And go for a router that accepts 1/2" bits. Most (all?) 1/2" routers also have 1/4" collets. You can go down in size from 1/2" bitts, but if you buy a 1/4" router you can't go up to a 1/2" bit later.

[trevski]

After reading this and other threads about routers I've decided i'm even more lost than when I started.  

I'm a very occasional woodworkermangler and I guess that the big question has to be what are YOU going to do with your router? Splurging £200+ on a Makita that you'll only use a handful of times is an incredible waste of cash.

Consider hiring one for a day for about £30 (link) and you'll get a decent make (I got a Makita when I hired) or maybe pick up a servicable 1200watt machine for £20 from Aldi (link)

Either way you'll not chuck down a load of hard earned cash only to find out you're not really comfortable with routing - Its scary .

Regarding collets - More expensive routers will have a collet to take a 1/2" shank bit, the cheaper ones only 1/4" and smaller. However - All the bits you'll need for DIY use and a cab build are available in 1/4" (eg: Slot Cutting) and indeed 1/4" is widely available in the UK in DIY stores with 1/2" tending towards professional use.

ps: give the PDF usage and safety guide a cheeky download from HSS hire - good reading prior to first time use.

[Digital Vandal]

After reading this and other threads about routers I've decided i'm even more lost than when I started.  

I'm a very occasional woodworkermangler and I guess that the big question has to be what are YOU going to do with your router? Splurging £200+ on a Makita that you'll only use a handful of times is an incredible waste of cash.

Consider hiring one for a day for about £30 (link) and you'll get a decent make (I got a Makita when I hired) or maybe pick up a servicable 1200watt machine for £20 from Aldi (link)

Either way you'll not chuck down a load of hard earned cash only to find out you're not really comfortable with routing - Its scary .

Regarding collets - More expensive routers will have a collet to take a 1/2" shank bit, the cheaper ones only 1/4" and smaller. However - All the bits you'll need for DIY use and a cab build are available in 1/4" (eg: Slot Cutting) and indeed 1/4" is widely available in the UK in DIY stores with 1/2" tending towards professional use.

ps: give the PDF usage and safety guide a cheeky download from HSS hire - good reading prior to first time use.

Thanks for the advice. I think the most important thing is am I going to need the 1/2" collet (I still don't fully understand what a collet is) I am looking at the black and decker range and there are 2 available. 1 is 1/4" and 1 is 1/2" with the ability to use 1/4". Obviously there is a price difference. Also the link to the slot cutting piece doesn't look like there is a blade or cutting face of any type so how would it cut?

[gryhnd]

(I still don't fully understand what a collet is)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collet

Edit: more specifically in the article - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collet#Woodwork

[gryhnd]

One thing I've learned over the years: don't cheap out on tools. The hassles they end up creating far outstrip the added expense of buying quality up front. If you can't afford it now, borrow or rent, and save up.

Not to mention that I don't want to trust a piece of razor sharp metal spinning at 25,000+ RPM to a questionable product 

[Digital Vandal]

One thing I've learned over the years: don't cheap out on tools. The hassles they end up creating far outstrip the added expense of buying quality up front. If you can't afford it now, borrow or rent, and save up.

Not to mention that I don't want to trust a piece of razor sharp metal spinning at 25,000+ RPM to a questionable product 

Completely agree with you. That's why I prefer to buy black and decker rather than an own brand product. I believe B&D are good enough quality to be safe without being overkill.

[Digital Vandal]

please delete, duplicate post

[gryhnd]

I'm not familiar with B&D router quality.

FWIW, this is a pretty close match to the Porter Cable kit I have:

http://www.amazon.com/Porter-Cable-693LRPK-Fixed-Router-Plunge/dp/B00006411C

[Digital Vandal]

I'm not familiar with B&D router quality.

FWIW, this is a pretty close match to the Porter Cable kit I have:

http://www.amazon.com/Porter-Cable-693LRPK-Fixed-Router-Plunge/dp/B00006411C

The problem I'm having is that in the states you work in $, inches, the bits are 1/2" or 1/4" and it seems the most common routers are fixed. Over in the uk we measure in mm, pay in £, the bits tend to be mostly 6mm or 8mm and the majority of routers are plunge type. In short, the advice people in the states give is accurate for the us but we don't have the same kit over here.

Please if you're in the uk, correct me if i'm wrong.

[gryhnd]

No, not UK, but who knows if P.C. has European equivalents.