Y-Plus Controller

[D_Harris]

Has anyone had any experience with the "PC Arcade Controller 2 Player Version(With USB/PS2 ADAPTER) For MAME Cabinet" at http://www.arcademvs.com/?

Pros and cons would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Darren

[XCVG]

Well, from looking at it, I see one obvious con- it's not native USB; it uses an adaptor for USB. Not sure if that's a really big problem or not.

[D_Harris]

Well, from looking at it, I see one obvious con- it's not native USB; it uses an adaptor for USB. Not sure if that's a really big problem or not.

Well it's not a con. It's native" PS/2. Which is not something they are trying to hide.(A PS/2 splitter would probably work just as well).

Obviously this product must be new.(And untested).

Darren

[Turnarcades]

This and millions of clones like it have been floating round ebay for years. The big cons are that they are non-programmable (a big no-no if you are building a complex, multi-featured panel or want 'shifted' functions), the wiring is fixed and frequently fragile and with the way this seems to be hard-wired in, a pain to service or troubleshoot in the event of an error. I also know from previous customers' experiences that the 'no ghosting/blocking' claim is usually bollocks and they clam up on fighting games, which is why they come to us in the end for a proper panel set up with boards from the i-pac family.

In the UK anyway, they often go for just a few quid less than a nice programmable pre-wired mini-pac, so why scrimp a few quid and limit your panel so much? The controls ultimately make or break a good machine build and you should never scrimp on control functionality.

[SavannahLion]

Would it be wise to buy a product that purports?

Compatible with all versions of M$ Windows and M$-DOS.

Go with GGG or Ultimarc.

[D_Harris]

Would it be wise to buy a product that purports?

Compatible with all versions of M$ Windows and M$-DOS.

Go with GGG or Ultimarc.

Funny you should mention those. Has anyone done a comparison between the Mini-PAC and the Opti-Wiz?(I don't know of any other controllers with a spinner interface).

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

[Turnarcades]

Would it be wise to buy a product that purports?

Compatible with all versions of M$ Windows and M$-DOS.

Go with GGG or Ultimarc.

Funny you should mention those. Has anyone done a comparison between the Mini-PAC and the Opti-Wiz?(I don't know of any other controllers with a spinner interface).

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

I think the Opti-Wiz supports mouse buttons, whereas the mini-pac does not, but it's not necessarily a fair comparison as the mini-pac is designed as a simpler, space-saving version of the U-HID, which is the most versatile interface out there as far as I know.

Generally speaking, Ultimarc is the normal choice for us Brits as they are based here, whereas US enthusiasts tend to order a combination of GGG and Ultimarc parts, as they aren't faced with the same ridiculous charges and VAT amount we do for imports.

[D_Harris]

Would it be wise to buy a product that purports?

Compatible with all versions of M$ Windows and M$-DOS.

Go with GGG or Ultimarc.

Funny you should mention those. Has anyone done a comparison between the Mini-PAC and the Opti-Wiz?(I don't know of any other controllers with a spinner interface).

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

I think the Opti-Wiz supports mouse buttons, whereas the mini-pac does not,..

Ok, let's see if I can figure this out. The Opti-Wiz is a mouse interface. So it would have to support mouse buttons in order to play a game like Tempest which uses a fire button.

The Mini-PAC is a keyboard interface. So anything you can play with your keyboard you can use this with.

but it's not necessarily a fair comparison as the mini-pac is designed as a simpler, space-saving version of the U-HID, which is the most versatile interface out there as far as I know.

I don't know how much space the Mini-PAC saves, but there is no pricing info concerning the U-HID, which is why I didn't bother looking further into it. (I don't even know if you can play spinner games with it).

Generally speaking, Ultimarc is the normal choice for us Brits as they are based here, whereas US enthusiasts tend to order a combination of GGG and Ultimarc parts, as they aren't faced with the same ridiculous charges and VAT amount we do for imports.

When I ordered two Mini-PACs it only took two days to get them and I'm in New York!

BTW. Here is a question I've been trying to get an answer from Andy about. Do I have to re-wire or use a different harness to switch from a spinner game like Arkanoid to a button game like Asteroids? I have what I believe is the older version which has two female PS/2 connectors.

(I'm also trying ot get info on the difference between "EZ-Solder" and "No Solder", as well as what kind of cable/s I'd need for the Opti-Wiz).

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

[Hoopz]

The Opti-Wiz is an Optical interface.  It supports spinners/trackballs AND 3 buttons.  The buttons can be used for any function including, but not limited to, mouse or keyboard buttons.

The Mini-Pac supports trackball and spinners AND up to 28 different buttons plus shifted buttons. 

Comparing those two products is comparing apples and oranges though.  The Opti-Wiz (Groovy Game Gear's product) and the Opti-Pac (Ultimarc's product) are the products that are closest to each other in terms of offerings, pricing, etc.  They are competing products.

If you have the Mini-Pac, you don't have to rewire it to play different games.

[Hoopz]

From Groovy Game Gear's website:

USB and PS/2 compatible. Available with either connector, but is compatible with both using an adapter

[Hoopz]

GGG sells a cable that you use to connect a trackball to the Opti-Wiz.  If you use this cable, you use the No-Solder Opti-Wiz.  If you don't use this cable and want to solder to connect your controls to the Opti-Wiz, then you order the solder version.

[D_Harris]

The Opti-Wiz is an Optical interface.  It supports spinners/trackballs AND 3 buttons.  The buttons can be used for any function including, but not limited to, mouse or keyboard buttons.

The Mini-Pac supports trackball and spinners AND up to 28 different buttons plus shifted buttons. 

Comparing those two products is comparing apples and oranges though.  The Opti-Wiz (Groovy Game Gear's product) and the Opti-Pac (Ultimarc's product) are the products that
are closest to each other in terms of offerings, pricing, etc.  They are competing products.

Well, I wasn't referring to the Opti-PAC. Nevertheless, after searching the site I found nothing on buttons, so how would one play any spinner game that required buttons and there also is no pricing info.

But getting back to the other controllers. The Opti-Wiz is for simple spinner/trackball games. And the Mini-PAC which costs twice as much allows joystick games and games that have more than three buttons.(I'm not counting admin buttons).

If you have the Mini-Pac, you don't have to rewire it to play different games.

But again, how does one switch back and forth between a spinner game like Arkanoid and a button game like Asteroids?(See pic).

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

[D_Harris]

GGG sells a cable that you use to connect a trackball to the Opti-Wiz.  If you use this cable, you use the No-Solder Opti-Wiz.  If you don't use this cable and want to solder to connect your controls to the Opti-Wiz, then you order the solder version.

Ok, that is not clear on the site. Neither is what the "USB Device Number" reference is.

I guess the solder version would be preferable if you're not sure if the pin-outs of your trackball or spinner is compatible.

So that brings the price of to that of the Mini-PAC.(I'm still not clear about which cable to use with the Mini-PAC either).

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

[Hoopz]

But again, how does one switch back and forth between a spinner game like Arkanoid and a button game like Asteroids?(See pic).

You don't have to do anything.  You end a game and start a new one.  The interface does the work automatically. The controls are active at all times. 

[D_Harris]

But again, how does one switch back and forth between a spinner game like Arkanoid and a button game like Asteroids?(See pic).

You don't have to do anything.  You end a game and start a new one.  The interface does the work automatically. The controls are active at all times.  

If you look at the site there are two different harnesses. A "Switch Harness" and a "Trackball/Spinner Harness".

It is not clear if I need both or just the "Trackball/Spinner Harness".

The Mini-PAC I have is not the one in the pic, but I believe an older version. It has what looks like two PS/2 female connectors on the PCB.(As well as the 40 pin  and the 9 pin male connectors).

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

[Hoopz]

If you're wiring buttons, you need the switch harness.  If you're wiring a trackball and/or spinner, you need the trackball/spinner harness.

[D_Harris]

If you're wiring buttons, you need the switch harness.  If you're wiring a trackball and/or spinner, you need the trackball/spinner harness.

?!?

You said that I wouldn't have to re-wire to switch between a spinner game and a button only game.

So in effect, what you're saying is that I need both harnesses attached to the controller in order for it to work alternately with a "spinner" game and "button only" game?

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

[Hoopz]

If you're wiring buttons, you need the switch harness.  If you're wiring a trackball and/or spinner, you need the trackball/spinner harness.

?!?

You said that I wouldn't have to re-wire to switch between a spinner game and a button only game.

?!?
You don't.   

So in effect, what you're saying is that I need both harnesses attached to the controller in order for it to work alternately with a "spinner" game and "button only" game?

I'll answer yes with the caveat that I don't know what you're hooking up as far as the spinner goes so I can't say if it's compatible with the harness or not. 

[D_Harris]

If you're wiring buttons, you need the switch harness.  If you're wiring a trackball and/or spinner, you need the trackball/spinner harness.

?!?

You said that I wouldn't have to re-wire to switch between a spinner game and a button only game.

?!?
You don't.   

So in effect, what you're saying is that I need both harnesses attached to the controller in order for it to work alternately with a "spinner" game and "button only" game?

I'll answer yes with the caveat that I don't know what you're hooking up as far as the spinner goes so I can't say if it's compatible with the harness or not. 

Spinner compatibility is not an issue.

More importantly, you cannot attach both the "switch" and the "trackball/spinner" harness to the controller at the same time.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

[CheffoJeffo]

I'm pretty sure you can -- they run to two different headers and are two different sizes ...

[Hoopz]

You bet you can. 

http://ultimarc.com/mp_inst.html

As you can see, the different harnesses connect at different places on the Mini-pac.

[D_Harris]

You bet you can. 

http://ultimarc.com/mp_inst.html

As you can see, the different harnesses connect at different places on the Mini-pac.

I guess you missed the couple of times I mentioned that I have the older version of the Mini-PAC. (See pic).

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

[Hoopz]

You bet you can. 

http://ultimarc.com/mp_inst.html

As you can see, the different harnesses connect at different places on the Mini-pac.

I guess you missed the couple of times I mentioned that I have the older version of the Mini-PAC. (See pic).

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

No I saw that.   

On your Mini-pac, the older version, I'm going to bet you can do the same thing.  The pins on the left side of your Mini-pac, the older version, are for the optical controls.  I'd be curious to see if you emailed Andy and told him you had the older version of the Mini-pac, if you can hook up both at the same time. 

[Hoopz]

I do sincerely apologize for posting the wrong diagram.  It's clearly for the new Mini-Pac, not the old one.

It wasn't that hard to find the old one though. 

http://www.ultimarc.com/mp_inst_old.html

But then, I found it easy to find the prices that some others couldn't find.   

[Hoopz]

Here's a quote from Andy (the owner of Ultimarc) where someone asked about the instructions.  This may help.

Those are the correct adaptors. You should have had at least one cable with the Mini-PAC, this might be a PS/2 male-male which you can use.

Take a look at this:  http://www.ultimarc.com/Mini-PAC%20Manual1.pdf

This is an old manual which was written by someone else, and shows the older version of the board, but the wiring information might help.

Andy

Ironically, it was YOUR thread and YOUR question.  And as you can see, the pins that I referenced earlier are indeed the optical controls.

 

[D_Harris]

No I saw that.   

On your Mini-pac, the older version, I'm going to bet you can do the same thing.  The pins on the left side of your Mini-pac, the older version, are for the optical controls.  I'd be curious to see if you emailed Andy and told him you had the older version of the Mini-pac, if you can hook up both at the same time. 

I did e-mail Andy and he got back to me once, but didn't give me a definitive answer.

I do sincerely apologize for posting the wrong diagram.  It's clearly for the new Mini-Pac, not the old one.

It wasn't that hard to find the old one though. 

http://www.ultimarc.com/mp_inst_old.html

But then, I found it easy to find the prices that some others couldn't find.   

Actually the prices are here: http://www.ultimarc.com/JShopServer/section.php?xSec=3

Here's a quote from Andy (the owner of Ultimarc) where someone asked about the instructions.  This may help.

Those are the correct adaptors. You should have had at least one cable with the Mini-PAC, this might be a PS/2 male-male which you can use.

Take a look at this:  http://www.ultimarc.com/Mini-PAC%20Manual1.pdf

This is an old manual which was written by someone else, and shows the older version of the board, but the wiring information might help.

Andy

Ironically, it was YOUR thread and YOUR question.  And as you can see, the pins that I referenced earlier are indeed the optical controls.

 

According to that link that's the power header for optical controls. And the reason I purchased the Mini-PAC is so I could used optical controls. (But that still doesn't answer my question).

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York

[Havok]

Darren, just pay someone to do this; sounds like you're in over your head. At least that's what the hot chick in my Audi told me to say...

[Turnarcades]

+1

It sounds like you need to a bit more reading up first, as our comments are likely to confuse things even more. If you really want the best advice, post a message with bullet points about what controls your cabinet will have, and what you want from your interface. Not everyone is familiar with every interface and as you are unfamiliar with the configurability of both emulator key mapping as well as interface connection/programming you ned to be more clear about what your cabinet has. Pics/sketches would help.

[D_Harris]

+1

It sounds like you need to a bit more reading up first, as our comments are likely to confuse things even more. If you really want the best advice, post a message with bullet points about what controls your cabinet will have, and what you want from your interface. Not everyone is familiar with every interface and as you are unfamiliar with the configurability of both emulator key mapping as well as interface connection/programming you ned to be more clear about what your cabinet has. Pics/sketches would help.

Actually, I was clear and I did post a pic. To prove that I'm going to repeat what you can find above.

First. Look again at the diagram of the control panel in question...

Now consider that I have an older version of the Mini-PAC.(See second pic)...

What specific harness(or harnesses if you go by what Hoopz says) are needed to get that control panel to work completely?

By completely I mean if I'm playing Arkanoid, I can close the game and start up Asteroids without having to re-wire or re-program anything).

I really don't know how to make it more simple than that...

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

[Havok]

Seriously though - you should ask Andy from Ultimarc if he has any of the old harnesses left, or you could buy a new one and cut it. Connect the trackball and spinner side, and then connect those wires to the appropriate connections on the mini-pac. Just grab an old IDE cable and cut it to get the correct pin connections to plug into the mini-pac. However, make sure you get one that has all 40 pins available, or see if you can do without the one that is normally filled in for keying purposes.

Done.

[smalltownguy]

If you're talking optical controls like a trackball, I've successfully used my older minipac to interface my Happs trackball no problem.

I got the switch harness with the setup, but I made my own trackball harness out of a non keyed usb motherboard header block. Just your basic 10 pin block. This block plugs into the extra, smaller group of pins on your minipac, providing power and ground to your trackball. The X,Y signals actually go to the wiring harness pins on the switch harness.

[Hoopz]

Both harnesses is the answer.  Or wiring them without harnesses.  Since you are only using a small number of buttons, wiring them by hand as opposed to the harness may safe money at the expense of a little time.

I'm still right to say both harnesses.  No matter how much you don't or can't believe it, if you're hooking up buttons AND an optical control to the Mini-pac, whether it's used, new, old style, new style, or does hand stands while you post about it for years on end without doing anything, it doesn't change the answer.   

[Havok]

Both harnesses is the answer.  Or wiring them without harnesses.  Since you are only using a small number of buttons, wiring them by hand as opposed to the harness may safe money at the expense of a little time.

I'm still right to say both harnesses.  No matter how much you don't or can't believe it, if you're hooking up buttons AND an optical control to the Mini-pac, whether it's used, new, old style, new style, or does hand stands while you post about it for years on end without doing anything, it doesn't change the answer.   

The hot chick in my Audi agrees...

[D_Harris]

Both harnesses is the answer.  Or wiring them without harnesses.  Since you are only using a small number of buttons, wiring them by hand as opposed to the harness may safe money at the expense of a little time.

I'm still right to say both harnesses.  No matter how much you don't or can't believe it, if you're hooking up buttons AND an optical control to the Mini-pac, whether it's used, new, old style, new style, or does hand stands while you post about it for years on end without doing anything, it doesn't change the answer.   

Don't get your panties in an uproar. I never contradicted your answer.(Even though it is still not the answer to my question). And no matter how many times I ask for a pointer to the specific harness(or harnesses) I need in this thread I get responses that have nothing to do with that question. So I might as well move on.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

[D_Harris]

Both harnesses is the answer.  Or wiring them without harnesses.  Since you are only using a small number of buttons, wiring them by hand as opposed to the harness may safe money at the expense of a little time.

I'm still right to say both harnesses.  No matter how much you don't or can't believe it, if you're hooking up buttons AND an optical control to the Mini-pac, whether it's used, new, old style, new style, or does hand stands while you post about it for years on end without doing anything, it doesn't change the answer.   

Don't get your panties in an uproar. I never contradicted your answer.(Even though it is still not the answer to my question). And no matter how many times I ask for a pointer to the specific harness(or harnesses) I need in this thread I get responses that have nothing to do with that question. So I might as well move on.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

Well what do you know. I just checked my e-mail and had a response back from Andy.

This is the older board and had a combined switch and trackball/spinner harness. If you need the harness, these can be ordered on this page: www.ultimarc.com/upgrade.html

Andy

So apparently you are wrong about me needing two harnesses... (Unfortunately the link Andy gave me was incorrect).

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

[Havok]

And no matter how many times I ask for a pointer to the specific harness(or harnesses) I need in this thread I get responses that have nothing to do with that question. So I might as well move on.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

Errm.. I guess you missed my post. Or are you looking for an f'ing SKU number?

Hot chick says I'm out...

[D_Harris]

And no matter how many times I ask for a pointer to the specific harness(or harnesses) I need in this thread I get responses that have nothing to do with that question. So I might as well move on.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

Errm.. I guess you missed my post. Or are you looking for an f'ing SKU number?

Hot chick says I'm out...

I have no idea what you are talking about.

Where did you point to the specific harness I needed?(And the IDE cable was a non option for me).

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

[Turnarcades]

By completely I mean if I'm playing Arkanoid, I can close the game and start up Asteroids without having to re-wire or re-program anything).

This is the part you are really confusing yourself on. MAME is configurable so you don't have to have the input for Arkanoid's 'fire' button set to a mouse button; in MAME's options menu, you set it to a keyboard key (ie. whatever you've mapped one of your Asteroids buttons to). You do not need an interface that even supports mouse buttons; the inputs marked 'mouse 1' and 'mouse 2' on the old mini-pac were a bit misleading as they actually refer to 2 of the numpad keys which act as mouse buttons when using the 'mousekeys' feature in windows.

So, you're options are either:
- Contact Andy at Ultimarc and ask for a harness to fit, or
- connect wires from your spinner directly to the appropriate pin-outs using my old modified mini-pac diagram below, or
- buy a spinner with it's own USB interface and cable (eg. TT2 from GGG or Tornado from Ultimarc)



Simple as that.

[Hoopz]

I can't believe I'm still trying to help.  It seems unwanted but I'll still post it.

If you click the link that Andy sent you, it shows another link on the page.  Click it and scroll down to see this:


Replacement harness for older Mini-PAC    Price: $19.00       ADD ITEM TO CART

You're welcome.  Though I know you won't order that or will say it doesn't answer your question or whatever your excuse is now....

[Hoopz]

Both harnesses is the answer.  Or wiring them without harnesses.  Since you are only using a small number of buttons, wiring them by hand as opposed to the harness may safe money at the expense of a little time.

I'm still right to say both harnesses.  No matter how much you don't or can't believe it, if you're hooking up buttons AND an optical control to the Mini-pac, whether it's used, new, old style, new style, or does hand stands while you post about it for years on end without doing anything, it doesn't change the answer.   

Don't get your panties in an uproar. I never contradicted your answer.(Even though it is still not the answer to my question). And no matter how many times I ask for a pointer to the specific harness(or harnesses) I need in this thread I get responses that have nothing to do with that question. So I might as well move on.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

Well what do you know. I just checked my e-mail and had a response back from Andy.

This is the older board and had a combined switch and trackball/spinner harness. If you need the harness, these can be ordered on this page: www.ultimarc.com/upgrade.html

Andy

So apparently you are wrong about me needing two harnesses... (Unfortunately the link Andy gave me was incorrect).

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

It's arguing semantics, but it's two harnesses that terminate at one end. One harness goes to your spinner (that you won't connect anyway) and the other end goes to the buttons (that you will post about for years yet never doing anything about).  The other end plugs into the Mini-pac.  I see it as a harness for the optical and one for the switches/buttons.