Lots of Beginner Questions-Japanese Parts-Eventual Bartop

[XCVG]

Another noob question from XCVG. Planning to build a bartop some time in the future. Anyway, I want Japanese parts, both for the supposedly awesome feel and the small size. Unfortunately, I don't think I can or want to to a metal control panel. So, can you mount these parts in wood? The screw-type ones perhaps? Some potential options I thought up of:

1. Route out the wood- I don't think this is going to work.
2. Use hardboard- It's small enough to do so, but I don't know if this is thin enough.
3. Use plastic- Not joking. Get some acrylic or Lexan. Not sure if it's thin enough, though. And it's expensive.

EDIT: Changed title. New questions.

1. Sanwa vs Seimitsu buttons. Is there any real difference? Is one better? Is it one of those personal preference things? Which do you use?
2. Sanwa JLF vs JLW vs Seimitsu LS-32. I've narrowed it down, but I'm not sure about which of the three I want.
3. Any tips on doing cabinet art, especially the marquee, would be appreciated. Remember, I'm kinda trying to do this on the cheap (controls will be the most expensive parts).

[massive88]

The screw type work just fine.

I imagine the snap in ones would work fine as well, havent used them though, but its not like you are ever exerting force what would lift them up and out of the panel.  If you were really worried about it, you could drop a dab of hot glue on them as well.

For the screw ones, I routed out my wood to about 1/4" where the buttons go, that plus my 1/8" acrylic on top left plenty of room for the screw to still engage.  You can probably mount to an overall 1/2" thickness with them as well.

[Franco B]

Yup, its all possible

I did a joystick top mounting guide [here] which some people seem to have found useful.

In regards to the buttons you can just use the snap in buttons in wooden drilled holes for a lazy solution.

If you want to use the screw in type the max material thickness you can mount the buttons in is 8mm. To achieve this with wood you can route out an area around the buttons. This is an example of a panel I did for someone.



You can do that with a large forstner bit, route it free hand or route it with a template like I did. There was 3mm acrylic on top of that panel so the mdf was routed to leave 5mm.

You could use a hardboard sheet and mount your buttons in that but you would want lots of support under it. You could mount in on top of another piece of material with a hole cut where the buttons are.

You could also do a similar thing with acrylic and mount the buttons as above.

If you wanted to mount them in sheet of acrylic with no backing I would suggest you would want it no thinner than 6mm (1/4") for stability.

There are probably a few more options but as you can see there is lots possible

[mwong168]

If you are mounting a Sanwa JLF in wood make sure you order a "JLF-TP-8S" or else order this "S" plate which makes mounting in wood easier.



I don't know if this is possible but you could route the wood on the top to match the thickness of the plate and top mount?  I don't have too much experience mounting with japanese parts in wood but have done plenty of direct swaps into Madcatz SE and Hori's for friends.

[massive88]

Heres a case I made for someone out of 3/4" MDF, routing recesses to undermount a standard JLF and use screw in buttons.

http://eminent.omgbbq.com/misc/atxscar/IMG_2455.JPG

[XCVG]

While we're on the topic, which is better- Sanwa and Seimitsu? I know I need 24mm buttons, preferably threaded screw-type ones. As for joysticks, I think I've narrowed it down to Sanwa JLF, Sanwa JLW, and Seimitsu LS-32. I plan on playing mostly fighters, but also console-type platformers and such as well.

EDIT: On a side note, does anyone know where I can get a 15" LCD monitor?

[opt2not]

While we're on the topic, which is better- Sanwa and Seimitsu? I know I need 24mm buttons, preferably threaded screw-type ones. As for joysticks, I think I've narrowed it down to Sanwa JLF, Sanwa JLW, and Seimitsu LS-32. I plan on playing mostly fighters, but also console-type platformers and such as well.

It's up to your preference really. Lots of people ask the same question, I personally like Seimitsu parts as they feel more solid and higher quality to me. The microswitches feel more "clicky", and the buttons have a less hollow feel. To me at least. But friends of mine swear by Sanwa. It really is up to your personal feel.

slagcoin is a great resource for information on sticks and joysticks. Also, check out kowal's site as well (though you'll have to get google to translate it from polish to english)
He has done a lot of research on joysticks and buttons...

EDIT: On a side note, does anyone know where I can get a 15" LCD monitor?

Ebay? Craiglist? Your local garage sale... all the usual suspects.

[massive88]

While we're on the topic, which is better- Sanwa and Seimitsu? I know I need 24mm buttons, preferably threaded screw-type ones. As for joysticks, I think I've narrowed it down to Sanwa JLF, Sanwa JLW, and Seimitsu LS-32. I plan on playing mostly fighters, but also console-type platformers and such as well.

EDIT: On a side note, does anyone know where I can get a 15" LCD monitor?

If you've never used either before such that you dont already have a preference, imo you cant go wrong.

Personally, I prefer the Sanwa JLF as a joystick, and Seimitsu 30mm buttons.  Ive also made a stick with Seimitsu LS-32 and Sanwa buttons, and it plays well also.

If you polled 1000 SRK members, youd probably come up with 600 that prefer the JLF to the LS-32 for fighters, so really, theres no wrong choice.

[XCVG]

Okay, thanks everyone. Another noob question here.

How could I do the artwork, on the cheap? Especially the marquee, which leaves me kind of stumped. I have an inkjet printer, and that's about it. I could probably get access to a colour laser too, maybe.

[Ginsu Victim]

Without the right equipment and materials, your marquee probably won't look all that great (particularly when lit).

Check out the link in my signature. Emdkay does excellent work at a fair price.

[Turnarcades]

Any decent print shop or online printers (trawl ebay) should be able to print your marquee to a suitable resolution on a quality paper or proper light-allowing vinyl for a bit more. We use paper-based marquees and they light up just fine. As for control choices, decide first the feel you remember/prefer from back in the day; there is no right or wrong answer and it all depends on your play style. Personally I prefer stiffer, more precise sticks for most of my gaming needs.

[BadMouth]

A WARNING ABOUT BARTOP MACHINES:

They take up space on your bar....
then you end up building a second bar just for machines. 

[XCVG]

Okay, thanks. Maybe I'll have to bite the bullet and buy a proper marquee. Though I will try (and probably fail) to make my own first.

A WARNING ABOUT BARTOP MACHINES:

They take up space on your bar....
then you end up building a second bar just for machines. 

Well, it's not a literal bartop, as I have no bar, but I have plenty of counter and desk space to use up.

[XCVG]

Double post, sorry. How frowned upon is that here?

Anyway, I have a computer. Kind of a piece of junk, it's a 1GHz PIII with either 256MB or 512MB or RAM, can't remember. Onboard graphics, but it has an AGP slot, I just have to find that Geforce FX5200. But the price was right; it was free. Apparently they had a whole bunch of them, they were going to just throw them out.

But that's not why I'm posting. I have a crude Paint-drawing design. Most likely the CP part will have to be sort of splayed out to make room for the controls. I plan on using Sanwa JLF sticks (most popular, can't go wrong) and Sanwa OBSN-24 pushbuttons. For start/select buttons either SDM-18s from Sanwa or just Radioshack (technically The Source formerly by Circuity City, but everyone still calls it Radio Shack) buttons.

I also built a really ghetto coin mech when I was bored at school, in robotics. After trying to make sense of how actual coin acceptors work, I gave up and designed my own. The coin slot is sized to fit a quarter and nothing bigger. There is a second slot directly below which is sized for nickels. Dimes and probably pennies will drop through reliably but nickels have a 50/50 chance of giving you a credit. Did I mention that it sometimes jams? Usually I can clear it by slamming on it. Originally it had a microswitch, but the coin was too weak to push it. Then I tried two wires that rub against the coin before I had a brainstorm. So now it has an opto-interrupter thingy on it. And one of the wires came off, and my soldering iron is in a box somewhere. Oh well, I'll fix it Monday. And yes, this is because I am evil. There will be a coin 'reject' button beside it (which doesn't reject, in fact the mech eats your nickels and dimes without giving you credits) which will be wired in parallel. But I'm not going to tell anyone what it does.

I don't know if there will be room for two or even one ghettomech like this though...

[Turnarcades]

Being used to designing economy-sized cabs, the biggest tip I can offer anyone is to plan your internal space first as this will ultimately determine the outer shell dimensions - design it around hardware you have in your possession (not what you intend to buy) as if you have missed a key mounting consideration or something you will have a big, unusable lump of wood that won't fit what you need.

Coin mechs are possible, particularly this type of hack, but consider where the coins will end up and if it's really worth it. Bar-Tops are not really ideal candidates for full authenticity de to limitations like this. The more you cram in, the worse your airflow will be inside and higher the potential for snagged wires etc. You could consider relocating the credit and start buttons to the lower sides of the cabinet as we do, which opens up space on your panel and can be used as handy flipper buttons on pinball games:



Finally, don't worry about the PC spec - we are masters of eeking performance from lower-spec PC's, so as long as you use an older build of MAME (pre-0.106), the correct emulators for other platforms and the correct graphics options and OS tweaks, you will get just as good performance from that P3.

[XCVG]

Thanks for the input. I probably will forgo the coin mechs for two reasons. First, nobody will put quarters in it, and second, I have no idea where to actually put it. The start and select buttons won't go on the sides; it sucks for console emulation where they are used a significant amount more, I have no plan on playing pinball and it sounds awkward to a guy who usually has all his buttons on one surface. But I plan on using smaller buttons for those functions. I'll think about it though, sounds creative but I personally don't like it. And the whole thing is about preference, right? If it wasn't, I could just buy one.

I think I need an exit button or something like that as well for switching games. I'm probably going to 'splay' out the CP to make it comfortable for two players and I'm planning on using 24mm buttons. I changed my plans on the stick, by the way. Now I'm going to use Seimitsu LS-32 sticks with round restrictors, and the buttons are a tossup. On one side is the Sanwa OBSN-24, but I hear they are really, really sensitive. On the other side is the Seimitsu PS-14-DN, which Lizardlick only stocks in black-rimmed colours. The advice about fitting the hardware is good, especially since I usually just build a hugely oversized case and ram things in with no thought whatsoever. It'll be interesting for a hackjob console modder like me to build an arcade cab.

Something like this for the start buttons: http://www.rpelectronics.com/English/Content/Items/456-701.asp
Or maybe this: http://www.rpelectronics.com/English/Content/Items/456-611.asp

On the software side, I plan on running Win98 with GameEX as a frontend. Most of my emulators should run fine, right? The only ones I'm worried about, really, are Project64 and nullDC, which I don't think will run at all. Oh well, when the next (last?) generation of computers gets thrown out I'll swap it out.

And last but not least, thanks for the input!

[Epyx]

Thanks for the input. I probably will forgo the coin mechs for two reasons. First, nobody will put quarters in it, and second, I have no idea where to actually put it. The start and select buttons won't go on the sides; it sucks for console emulation where they are used a significant amount more, I have no plan on playing pinball and it sounds awkward to a guy who usually has all his buttons on one surface. But I plan on using smaller buttons for those functions. I'll think about it though, sounds creative but I personally don't like it. And the whole thing is about preference, right? If it wasn't, I could just buy one.

Don't forget you can map the same function to multiple sources...IE you can have Coin 1 mapped to multiple spots...not just the coin door. So if you didn't want to use tokens etc just also have it mapped/wired to a button somewhere.

[opt2not]

Don't forget you can map the same function to multiple sources...

You can also double map any button. For instance, on my cabinets I have coin1 and P1 Start mapped to the same button (same goes for P2). This way you only need to hit a single button for both!

Though, you could just set the game's dip-switch to free-play and not worry about coins altogether.

[Turnarcades]

On the software side, I plan on running Win98 with GameEX as a frontend. Most of my emulators should run fine, right? The only ones I'm worried about, really, are Project64 and nullDC, which I don't think will run at all. Oh well, when the next (last?) generation of computers gets thrown out I'll swap it out.

My mate runs XP with GameEx on his P3-based cab and it's OK, but GameEx is not as 'lightweight' as some other FE's so you may want to look at some lighter choices for smoother navigation and faster game launching (Mamewah, Mala, and some others). If you are using an additional graphics card you will get N64 (albeit with reduced draw distances etc.) as my mate surprisingly did, but forget Dreamcast with that base spec. Boost your RAM for best results.

[XCVG]

I know you guys are tired of hearing of my "updates" of no actual progress, but...

I've decided to take a slightly different tack. I really like the look of Japanese "candy cabs", so I'm going to try to replicate the look of those. Attached is a really badly drawn design. The CP is a separate piece because it's wider than the rest of the cab. A bit odd, but remember it's going to be small and I definitely want to be able to play with a friend (get your head out of the gutter). Any suggestions on how to make it look more like an actual candy cab and not just a really thin one? Remember, I have to be able to build it, and I'm not very good at working with wood.see above small text

Oh, and what you are saying about free play and no coin buttons is good, but I need the button there anyway, because it will be "select" for console emulation. I think I need some admin buttons and such too, as well as a bunch of wire terminals, so I'll save some money and order it from rpelectronics.com. They are close (ish) to where I live, and the much better prices offset the shipping and mishandling fees.

Also, this may sound odd, but how do you like my posting style. Why I ask is because at ModRetro, the forum I frequent the most, we're really casual (bordering on silly bordering on downright ADD) and I'm one of the best spoken people there. But everyone here seems so much more serious...or not

[XCVG]

Well, might actually see some real progress soon. I found a 17" LCD monitor at a thrift store for about $50CAD and bought it. It's dirty but works fine. Played some Jet Grind Radio (Dreamcast with VGA box) on it, but it does need a good cleaning. I also picked up some speakers. Only 2-channel ones with no subwoofer, but I'm not sure if there will be room for a sub anyway.

[Turnarcades]

Replicating Candy cab style is difficult with wood, particularly on this size cabinet. If you are having a wider, separate panel anyway it's not going to 'look candy' as candy's had panels the same width as the cab, moulded in.

[XCVG]

I was thinking about that too, but I don't really have a choice, the CP would be way too narrow. However, I redid the design slightly. There is a small pedastal, which will probably hold the KB and mouse. And I added a blue stripe down the side. You'd be surprised how much more 'candy' it looks with those two small changes!

Also, I'm basing my cab mostly on the Aero City cab, as it is much less curvy and therefore easier to actually build. I found some really good examples here: http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/group.php?groupid=16

I realize this project is a little different than the normal ones here, but the first time I saw a candy cab on the internet it was like love at first sight. Obviously I can't buy one with the limited resources I have, and it wouldn't really work for the big cab project that got delayed again, but I think it'll work great for a bartop, if I don't screw it up.

Lastly, thanks for the help again. You guys are probably all tired of hearing me ramble on and on and on and on and..........