Should I set the Politics and Religion forum back to open access?

[saint]

Should I set the Politics and Religion forum back to open access? We certainly are at a peak time in politics these days...

[shmokes]

Opt out is a cool idea. 

[CheffoJeffo]

Unless there is a compelling reason, why change what seems to be working ?

I haven't bothered to apply for access since it was restricted, so maybe there has been some change that I have missed.

However, based on the tilted explanation that shmokes gives in the other thread in which he calls people who disagreed with him "emotionally unstable", "---maternal-smurfs---" and "people should be required to wear helmets and mittens while surfing the internet", it would seem that nothing has changed at all.

 

EDIT: To be clear, the fallout from PnR WAS affecting the quality of the discussion elsewhere on the board and, to my mind, saint made the right call in preserving the peace. It doesn't really matter that people shouldn't carry grudges outside of PnR, what mattered is that they did and the other forums suffered. If you have any doubt of the correctness of saint's decision, I encourage you to visit any of the other arcade boards and see the praise BYOAC gets for keeping things friendly. Perhaps an "opt out or saint will opt you out" option will work ... I dunno ... but the rest of the forums are far more important a resource and any decisions should be made with that in mind.

[Gorotsuki]

Vote yes.
The arguments are fun to read.

[shmokes]

Unless there is a compelling reason, why change what seems to be working ?

Wouldn't simply not going to the Politics and Religion section work equally well?  I'm really not trying to antagonize you.  That is a sincere question.  I think that it goes without saying that the current system isn't "working" or this thread would not exist.  What you mean to say is, "why change what seems to be working for me?"  And that seems like a rather selfish way of looking at it.  Again, I'm not trying to be snarky.  I genuinely believe that it takes an emotionally unstable person to want to ruin the PnR section for those who are interested in it because he is unable to exercise the extraordinarily small amount of self-control it would take to simply stay out of that section. 

But now that "opt out" is on the table, I am just amazed at your position.  You could click opt-out and never see PnR again.  It would not exist for you.  Everything would stay the same for you as it is now.  Yet you still want to go out of your way to make sure that other people cannot do something that they enjoy doing, even though it wouldn't affect you at all.  I'm sorry, but that strikes me as emotionally unstable. 

[CheffoJeffo]

Unless there is a compelling reason, why change what seems to be working ?

Wouldn't simply not going to the Politics and Religion section work equally well?  I'm really not trying to antagonize you.  That is a sincere question.  I think that it goes without saying that the current system isn't "working" or this thread would not exist.  What you mean to say is, "why change what seems to be working for me?"  And that seems like a rather selfish way of looking at it.  Again, I'm not trying to be snarky.  I genuinely believe that it takes an emotionally unstable person to want to ruin the PnR section for those who are interested in it because he is unable to exercise the extraordinarily small amount of self-control it would take to simply stay out of that section. 

But now that "opt out" is on the table, I am just amazed at your position.  You could click opt-out and never see PnR again.  It would not exist for you.  Everything would stay the same for you as it is now.  Yet you still want to go out of your way to make sure that other people cannot do something that they enjoy doing, even though it wouldn't affect you at all.  I'm sorry, but that strikes me as emotionally unstable. 

No worries -- you are utterly misinterpreting my position, which is why I added the clarifying edit to my post.

*I* don't have a problem leaving things in PnR -- if you look at the people I had the biggest arguments with, you'll find folks that I call friends and we get along fine elsewhere on BYOAC and the innertubes. Hell, even Wunder and I get along outside of PnR.

To my mind, the important issue is what actually happens to the other forums as a result. I don't give a crap whose fault it is that the poison spreads (and, if it doesn't spread this time, then great!), but if the rest of the forums are adversely affected (as they were before), then I would think that it is *YOU* who are being selfish because *YOU* want to have a good political debate and don't care about all of that arcadey stuff.

I'm not trying to restrict anybody's rights or free speech, but rather am concerned about protecting what I deem to be the best parts of this place (which is pretty much everything outside of PnR).

I'm not afraid of PnR -- I'm afraid of what it does to the rest of this place.

 

[shmokes]

in which he calls people who disagreed with him "emotionally unstable", "---maternal-smurfs---" and "people should be required to wear helmets and mittens while surfing the internet",

BTW, I said nothing about people who disagree with me.  I referred to people who cannot bear reading political debate, but are nevertheless unable to stop themselves from entering clearly marked political debate threads and reading political debate post after political debate post, and often creating posts themselves -- all this even when they have to go out of their way to go into a special Politics n Religion section in order to access these threads.  And then they complain to the site admin as though the site made them do it.  This is what I referred to as emotionally unstable.

[CheffoJeffo]

I agree with you that there are people who shouldn't go in there and, if they do, they shouldn't cry "saint made me do it". To argue otherwise would be silly and that whole matter is best left to people who get paid to make arguments about things that aren't particularly important ... oh wait ... 

I don't actually care if they do click and then cry "saint made me do it" ... so long as they don't ---fudgesicle--- up the rest of the forums.

That is what happened last time and is, as I recall, exactly why saint cut off access -- he didn't cave (since, obviously, he could just restrict access for those people who cried).

[shmokes]

I'm afraid of what it does to the rest of this place.

The thing is . . . this didn't happen.  I was here.  I mean, I'm not saying it never happened, but it was never an issue.  Like you said, you get along with Wunder.  I've helped Dartful on multiple occasions.  I'm sure that you could point to some individual incident of a PnR grudge manifesting in another forum, but it was never a serious issue.  And it doesn't take PnR to have things get wild with a Xiaou or Ummon or Tommy.  It doesn't take PnR for Randy to trash an Ultimarc product announcement thread.  These things happen.  And they even suck.  But you don't necessarily have to take a scorched earth approach to this stuff.  Reports of PnR "poisoning" the rest of the forum are greatly exaggerated.

And I believe saint cut off access in response to call after call to cut it off.  Over and over again there were long debates in the forum discussion section.  It would get shot down and then a few weeks later a new thread would pop up, and on and on.  And I imagine there may have eventually been an incident or two that made saint say, "okay, whatever, let's give this a shot."  But it was never an issue.  There was never a time when PnR was having a measurable effect on the rest of the forum.  That just didn't happen.

[CheffoJeffo]

We're going to have to agree to disagree -- I thought that there was carryover and saw that it cleared up after the restriction. Your mileage apparently does vary, although other people saw the same problems I did, so your unilateral declaration that it didn't happen is not the absolute that you claim.

I am kinda saddened that you think that saint caved to pressure as opposed to making a decision that he thought was best for the board. If there is one thing that I have seen, since I haven't been banned and I'm sure that people have demanded it, it is that saint doesn't cave.

FWIW, I don't have a problem with opening PnR up (hell, you and I are probably pretty close politically ... or at least as close as a Canauckstanian and 'Merican can be), so long as it doesn't hurt the rest of the board.

And it doesn't take PnR to have things get wild with a Xiaou or Ummon or Tommy.  

No fair -- I'm still working on Xiaou!

 

[shmokes]

I am kinda saddened that you think that saint caved to pressure as opposed to making a decision that he thought was best for the board. If there is one thing that I have seen, since I haven't been banned and I'm sure that people have demanded it, it is that saint doesn't cave.

Lol . . . a bit passive aggressive.  saint will be okay.  I promise.   

[danny_galaga]

Vote yes.
The arguments are fun to read.

Your avatar is fun to look at (",)

[danny_galaga]

Oh, and i say YES, but with a minimum 10 posts as prequisite. Just to screen out blow ins from else where...

[Ginsu Victim]

I say keep it like it is (which was my vote) or at least opt out, so I can remove it (because if it's there, I'll go in and I don't want to).

Even with opt out, it's open to all, so I say a higher posting minimum than what danny_galaga said is in order. I think 50 minimum is more appropriate.

[shmokes]

I think 50 minimum is more appropriate.

The point of a minimum prerequisite is to protect the people in PnR from trolls.  If you would opt out why would you possibly prefer a 50 minimum to a 10 minimum?

[Ginsu Victim]

Well even if I'm not going to be in there, I can still be concerned about keeping the riff-raff out.

[shmokes]

Thanks.  That's very sweet.

[Ginsu Victim]

My main thing is not having it spill over into the forums like it did in the past. Some people can't help but bring that crap up even though it has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

[shmokes]

My main thing is watching Oprah. 

[shmokes]

Honestly opt out strikes me as incredibly comical, considering PnR has its own forum.  I personally think that EE was perfectly capable of separating political debate from the substantive content of BYOAC.  But separating the political debate even from the EE forum into its very own specialized forum exclusively for PnR ought to be enough.  You can opt out of it the same way you opt out of teenbeat.com or doratheexplorer.com or realclearpolitics.com every single day of your life.  Just don't go there, for crying out loud.  And if you DO go there, take some bloody responsibility for your actions.  Your exposure to unwanted political discourse is your own fault.  You had to go out of your way to seek it out.  So don't go about ruining good things for other people because of your own personal lack of self control.

Nevertheless, I voted for opt out as an acknowledgement of the fact that Ginsu Victim exists and will continue to try to ruin things for others rather than simply addressing his own irresponsible behavior.

[Ginsu Victim]

Nevertheless, I voted for opt out as an acknowledgement of the fact that Ginsu Victim exists and will continue to try to ruin things for others rather than simply addressing his own irresponsible behavior.

 

I just wanted to have an opt out because if the forum is there, I'll click it, and then I'll be hooked. I don't want to spend even MORE time here, especially arguing with people.

[CheffoJeffo]

Honestly opt out strikes me as incredibly comical, considering PnR has its own forum.  I personally think that EE was perfectly capable of separating political debate from the substantive content of BYOAC.  But separating the political debate even from the EE forum into its very own specialized forum exclusively for PnR ought to be enough.  You can opt out of it the same way you opt out of teenbeat.com or doratheexplorer.com or realclearpolitics.com every single day of your life.  Just don't go there, for crying out loud.  And if you DO go there, take some bloody responsibility for your actions.  Your exposure to unwanted political discourse is your own fault.  You had to go out of your way to seek it out.  So don't go about ruining good things for other people because of your own personal lack of self control.

Nevertheless, I voted for opt out as an acknowledgement of the fact that Ginsu Victim exists and will continue to try to ruin things for others rather than simply addressing his own irresponsible behavior.

It is funny that you use terms like "scorched earth" and "ruining things for others" as if there was some great inpenetrable wall surrounding PnR with myriad locks, puzzles and traps.

Is sending a simple PM really that much of an inconvenience that it ruins your experience here ?

 

[shmokes]

Yes.  PnR is a ghost town.  The requirement of sending a PM to request entry ruined PnR.  Completely.

[DillonFoulds]

I went opt-out. No problem for people to -not- go there! I wouldn't mind seeing all the hub-ub that goes on in that "dreaded place", but don't expect me to actively participate in any discussions within. I'm not politically charged, but I can appreciate differing viewpoints on matters.

[shmokes]

 

I just wanted to have an opt out . . .

And yet . . .

I say keep it like it is (which was my vote)

and . . .

a higher posting minimum . . . is in order.  I think 50 minimum is more appropriate.

[Ginsu Victim]

You quoted me out of order, though. I said I liked it how it is, but if push comes to shove, an opt out sounds alright.

I've changed my vote to opt out.

"No! Save us from the horror!" is a bit too extreme in its wording anyway.

[shmokes]

Sweet . . . one more vote.  I hope this opt-out thing is an actual option and not just something that would be a great idea but is not currently supported by the forum software.

[Malenko]

I say delete the forum, this is arcade controls not politics and religion. People like to sneak as much out of that section into the regular forum; like your pic quote of "Blasphemy is a victimless crime", which by the way is a very cock faced way of putting down all religions and not just mine.


I think its fine how it is, request for access. If no one wants in, then odds are no one wants in. 6 active memebrs sounds like 6 too may.

I might be a "---maternal-smurf---" but I dont need mittens or a helmet to use the intertubes. I dont like the wording of "save us form the horror" either but the other 2 options dont appeal to me at all.

yes yes you can retort with "then dont go there" but I can retort to you with "go to a forum that's purpose is to discuss PnR"

[shmokes]

So Malenko, let me see if I understand your position.  It sounds like you're saying that the Everything Else section and the Politics n Religion section should be permanently deleted?

[Ginsu Victim]

Are there really only 6 members or is that just an exaggeration?

[polaris]

Are there really only 6 members or is that just an exaggeration?

no its more than 6, but we all know each other pretty well by now, well enough for example for me to know that shmokes is in one of his moods at the moment 

[Ginsu Victim]

no its more than 6, but we all know each other pretty well by now, well enough for example for me to know that shmokes is in one of his moods at the moment 

Come on. It's obvious to us all.

[shmokes]

As for daily contributors I'd say you have Mr. C, Dexter, Patrickl, Wunder.  I used to be one, but my posting there has dropped off sharply and I'll frequently go weeks at a time without posting there now, and when I am participating it's usually only half-heartedly in one or two threads.  On top of that you have periodic posts from Dartful, Ed, Frizzle, Saint, pinballjim, polaris.  A few others make occasional appearances ,e.g., Fredster, who used to post multiple times per day, will show up and post something once or twice a year.  

I wouldn't be surprised if 6 is an exaggeration of the average number of people contributing on a given day.  

[Malenko]

So Malenko, let me see if I understand your position.  It sounds like you're saying that the Everything Else section and the Politics n Religion section should be permanently deleted?

No, that isnt what I wrote.

[shmokes]

Right . . . I had to extrapolate the part about the Everything Else section based on your strong position against discussion of non-arcade-related things being discussed on an arcade message board.*




*just between you and me and don't tell anyone, but it was actually a rather backhanded remark.   

[Malenko]

Right . . . I had to extrapolate the part about the Everything Else section based on your strong position against discussion of non-arcade-related things being discussed on an arcade message board.*




*just between you and me and don't tell anyone, but it was actually a rather backhanded remark.    

I'll take the bait *sigh*

I don't think the subject matter of PnR should discussed on here. It was sectioned off for a reason and since it was ostracized from the "normal" parts of the forum things have been going rather swimmingly. Now there will always be users like tommy, xaiou, genesim,etc even without PnR but the calibur of the user has nothing to do with what sub sections are available. And people like you, will post what you want where you want (again referencing your tactless picture caption) and for some reason fight this dilligently over something only a handful of members seem to be active on.

Also, lumping "Everything Else" in with "Politics and Religion" is a fallacy, they obviously cover different things since they have their own independant sections. Also, I dont have a "strong position" of discussing non arcade related  things on an arcade forum, just not discussing politics and religion.  Again, its not under the "Everything Else" umbrella so please refrain from lumping them together in any future posts on the topic.

Also, extrapolating something and just trying to be a ---uvula--- to try and prove a meger point arent the same thing. I'm an ---uvula--- all the time, but at least I have the testicular fortitude to fess up to it.

[shmokes]

I'm an ---uvula--- all the time, but at least I have the testicular fortitude to fess up to it.

Oh . . . I don't know.  I don't really think I'm too much of an ---uvula---, though judging by my tactless picture caption I don't discount the possibility that it may be a debatable proposition. 

By the way, did you say that Politics and Religion are not covered by the term Everything Else?  I'm going to have to check out a dictionary when I get a moment.  I could have sworn that I knew the definition of Everything Else off the top of my head, but maybe it means something other than what I thought.   

But in the future I endeavor to comply with your demands.  I will diligently seek to understand how dog fighting, falling through ceilings, cheesecake, the crappy job market and recipes revolving around bacon are appropriate topics for an arcade message board.  And health care, the post office, intelligent design in the public school curriculum, death trains, and government censorship are obviously inappropriate.

Wait . . . I think I'm being backhanded again.  Sorry.

[CheffoJeffo]

And here you told me that PnR having a negative effect on the rest of the board was a fallacy ... we can't even have a conversation about accessing PnR without people calling each other names and being offended.

[shmokes]

Maybe someone should report whoever started this inflammatory thread.  Seems like whoever it was should at least get a warning, if not an outright ban.

[Ginsu Victim]

I don't think we can blame the topic, Cheffo.

[Malenko]

Oh . . . I don't know.  I don't really think I'm too much of an ---uvula---, though judging by my tactless picture caption I don't discount the possibility that it may be a debatable proposition. 

By the way, did you say that Politics and Religion are not covered by the term Everything Else?  I'm going to have to check out a dictionary when I get a moment.  I could have sworn that I knew the definition of Everything Else off the top of my head, but maybe it means something other than what I thought.   

But in the future I endeavor to comply with your demands.  I will diligently seek to understand how dog fighting, falling through ceilings, cheesecake, the crappy job market and recipes revolving around bacon are appropriate topics for an arcade message board.  And health care, the post office, intelligent design in the public school curriculum, death trains, and government censorship are obviously inappropriate.

Wait . . . I think I'm being backhanded again.  Sorry.

I feel like I'm talking to Genesim.......
Is there an everything else section? Is there a politics and religion section? Then they aren't the same thing. While normally PnR would be covered under the same thing, the fact there is a separate section means they arent. Get it? see how MaLa front end is a section and software is a section, by your skewed logic then MaLa isnt software, and thats not how it works.

perhaps you should go to a forum that deals with reading comprehension?

Also I was just pointing out your caption because it is about religion, or lack there of, and anytime you post in any thread thats not PnR you're making a religious statement outside of where it belongs.

Also, I called myself an ---uvula--- and not you; also stated that when I act like an ---uvula--- I own up to it. I did call your comment cock faced, and I stand by that statement. I am not offended, btw, but I am more convinced the PnR should at the minum stay how it is.

[ark_ader]

The way I see this thread it should be Shmokes Room instead of PnR. 

I conclude the arguments are entertaining, but the comments should be toned down and reflect the rules of the board.  Also (as with shmokes) the ability to understand the comments made from a poster should be backed up with credible references and not wikipedia.

I would like to hear from anyone here who is currently in adult education using wikipedia in their assignments or course work. 

With those rules in place and a daily moderator keeping the order, then I do not see why the PnR forum should be under lock and key.

If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter.
George Washington 1732-1799

[patrickl]

As for daily contributors I'd say you have Mr. C, Dexter, Patrickl, Wunder.  I used to be one, but my posting there has dropped off sharply and I'll frequently go weeks at a time without posting there now, and when I am participating it's usually only half-heartedly in one or two threads.  On top of that you have periodic posts from Dartful, Ed, Frizzle, Saint, pinballjim, polaris.  A few others make occasional appearances ,e.g., Fredster, who used to post multiple times per day, will show up and post something once or twice a year.  

I wouldn't be surprised if 6 is an exaggeration of the average number of people contributing on a given day.  

Recently my "daily contribution" can't have been more than something like 1 post a day. I got too depressed seeing MrC debate with ... wel noone really. Would be nice to get some eloquent Republicans in there.

[shmokes]

PnR should at the minum stay how it is.

At a minimum.  If I had my way we'd take it a step further and have the participants murdered.

[CheffoJeffo]

PnR should at the minum stay how it is.

At a minimum.  If I had my way we'd take it a step further and have the participants murdered.

Beat me to it ... dammit! 

[shmokes]

Melenko, just to help you understand, allow me to show you your argument for why PnR should not exist here.  I have made a few strategic edits to help illustrate how your argument against PnR parallels a similar argument that could be just as legitimately levelled at EE:

I say delete the forum, this is arcade controls not everything else . . . .

yes yes you can retort with "then dont go there" but I can retort to you with "go to a forum that's purpose is to discuss EE"

The secret to understanding what I'm saying is to realize that I don't think the content of PnR is the same as the content of EE.  But the content of both forums are equally unrelated to building arcade controls and, thus,  the argument you made against PnR are equally applicable to EE.  See the difference there?

[shmokes]

Beat me to it ... dammit!  

The sky is the limit.  We could kill their families, burn down their homes, frame them for serious crimes . . .

[CheffoJeffo]

OK ... it's been a while since I posted from my collection of tommyisms, but this made me laugh out loud at the parallel.

if you dont like what you see or read DONT LOOK OR READ IT that should be the end of the story, why does everyone on the forum or whatever the case may be have to pay for it.

tommy and shmokes on the same side ... who'd a thunk it ?

[Ginsu Victim]

tommy and shmokes on the same side ... who'd a thunk it ?

Oh no....you may have just opened a whole new can o' worms....

[CheffoJeffo]

Actually, after further reflection, I think that there is a very simple way to decide on the best course of action.

"What would Stingray do?"

 

spoiler space for those who may not know

I've really lost all interest in splitting EE, I'm just jumping on the "get shmokes' knickers in a twist" bandwagon.

 

[Ginsu Victim]

Actually, after further reflection, I think that there is a very simple way to decide on the best course of action.

"What would Stingray do?"

 

Since you just printed it out, I've been looking through this...
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=35408.0;all

[Malenko]

Melenko, just to help you understand, allow me to show you your argument for why PnR should not exist here.  I have made a few strategic edits to help illustrate how your argument against PnR parallels a similar argument that could be just as legitimately levelled at EE:

I say delete the forum, this is arcade controls not everything else . . . .

yes yes you can retort with "then dont go there" but I can retort to you with "go to a forum that's purpose is to discuss EE"

The secret to understanding what I'm saying is to realize that I don't think the content of PnR is the same as the content of EE.  But the content of both forums are equally unrelated to building arcade controls and, thus,  the argument you made against PnR are equally applicable to EE.  See the difference there?

The secret to understanding what you are saying is easy, pay no attention to what is said and just bend everything to fit your needs. Let me use your logic here. Saint is wrong for not allowing discussion of ROMs , Warez,and pr0n in everything else because its "everything else" . Its "Everything Else" not "Anything goes"

I showed you the obvious flaw in your "logic" when discussing how MaLa must not be software because its not in the software forum. See the difference there?

Lastly, I dont understand what you hope to achieve with this "debate" ? I mean are you trying to show people how crappy it is in PnR using this thread as an an example? Are you trying to show people that its impossible to have a discussion with you because context and logic mean nothing to you?  Proving you still have no tact by having a religious statement in your caption?

Also feel free to not edit my quotes for examples. Oh yeah,  I misspelled minimum because I was in a rush to leave work.

[Ginsu Victim]

Let me use your logic here. Saint is wrong for not allowing discussion of ROMs , Warez,and pr0n in everything else because its "everything else" . Its "Everything Else" not "Anything goes"

[shmokes]

I showed you the obvious flaw in your "logic" when discussing how MaLa must not be software because its not in the software forum. See the difference there?

Malenko, I don't understand the relevance of your example to anything I have said.  In fact, as far as I can tell it only exposes the obvious flaw in your logic.  You specifically said if two things have separate forums they cannot be talking about the same thing.  Your exact words were:

Also, lumping "Everything Else" in with "Politics and Religion" is a fallacy, they obviously cover different things since they have their own independant sections. . . . Again, its not under the "Everything Else" umbrella so please refrain from lumping them together in any future posts on the topic.

It is by your logic that MaLa must not be software because MaLa has its own forum distinct from the Software forum.  I am quite sure that you will not find any similar quote from me.

But I seriously don't get where you're going with it.  The only comparison that I ever made between the two was to point out that if PnR is inappropriate by virtue of it being unrelated to arcade controls, EE is inappropriate too.

Now, PnR may still be inappropriate for other reasons, just as ROMS and pornography are inappropriate.  We can have that discussion if you like.  But you suggested that PnR had no place here because it had nothing to do with arcade controls, and that is what I was responding to with my comparison to EE.

Oh yeah,  I misspelled minimum because I was in a rush to leave work.

I hadn't noticed, nor would I have pointed it out if I had. 

[AtomSmasher]

I think it's time to move this thread into PnR.

[Dartful Dodger]

P&R started because of all the Bush bashing.

People who are bashing the current government have actual polital complaints.

It might work now, but if you open up P&R you'll just have to lock it again in 3 years.

[Malenko]

I never stated we cant discuss anything not arcade related here, you made that assumption. I say we shouldn't discuss PnR here because when we could, it sucked and brought down the other forums. It was moved away from the general chat for a reason, and you want it back because you are bored that no one goes in there. instead of campaigning for open PnR chat why dont you recruit via PM other members to join it? Its not difficult to get into PnR so I dont see what the big deal is.

I compare it to a diseased hooker on the corner, you think its fine for her to be there that if I ignore her that's the same as her not being there. I say I don't want a hooker on my street corner.

Also, I still find your avatar caption offense and I'm not the only one who feels that way and I dont understand how you get away with having it there, to me it seems to break the rule about respecting the other members.

[shmokes]

Malenko, I really think this argument has run its course.  Let's just both agree that PnR is like a diseased hooker on a street corner and we can leave it at that.

 I dont understand how you get away with having it there.

Someone upstairs looking out for me, I suppose. 

[CheffoJeffo]

I compare it to a diseased hooker on the corner, you think its fine for her to be there that if I ignore her that's the same as her not being there. I say I don't want a hooker on my street corner.

What would Stingray do ?

 

[mr.Curmudgeon]

Pn'R is like the Costco of discussion forums. You need special permission to get in because it provides "the stupid", in bulk form.

[protokatie]

I think it's time to move this thread into PnR.

Damn you beat me to it!

Anyways, I think it is fine the way it is personally. Forums can be like families, and conversations often stray from why this forum exists, and most of that can fit in EE. Basically, if someone can't be arsed to send a PM to saint to get into PnR, they must not really care about the content all that much. I only got access to it because so many forums in EE got the "moved to PnR" rubber stamp a few years ago, and I was curious to see what they were about.

[shmokes]

Katie, that is exactly the point, and exactly why PnR used to be great and now is only frequented by a handful of fanatics (the people who care about the content enough to be arsed to send a PM to saint).  If people had to send Saint an PM asking for special permission to access the Everything Else forum it would have exactly the same effect.  Traffic to EE would drop off sharply.  Only a fraction of people would continue visiting the forum which would not only deprive those people of EE, but it would deprive people in EE from those people's contributions.  It's easy to say, "Well . . . those people must not care about the content of EE enough to send saint a PM."  To which the only logical response is, "Well . . . yeah, obviously.  So?"

[Gorotsuki]

There was this one time
that I offended myself,
but then I got over it.

[DillonFoulds]

One time, I bought a coke, but then I accidentally the whole bottle. Is this dangerous?

[shmokes]

Verb trouble.

[AtomSmasher]

Katie, that is exactly the point, and exactly why PnR used to be great and now is only frequented by a handful of fanatics (the people who care about the content enough to be arsed to send a PM to saint).  If people had to send Saint an PM asking for special permission to access the Everything Else forum it would have exactly the same effect.  Traffic to EE would drop off sharply.  Only a fraction of people would continue visiting the forum which would not only deprive those people of EE, but it would deprive people in EE from those people's contributions.  It's easy to say, "Well . . . those people must not care about the content of EE enough to send saint a PM."  To which the only logical response is, "Well . . . yeah, obviously.  So?"

I used to post somewhat often in PnR, but it was the fanatics that got me to stop.  It got to the point that where anything you said required a bibliography with at least 3 sources sited, and each source needed to be from sites with differing political leanings then the rest.  I decided it wasn't worth the effort and decided to leave it to the fanatics, so I rarely post anything anymore.

[WunderCade]

Bring. It. On.

Sincerely,
Member of the G6.

[Vanguard]

Katie, that is exactly the point, and exactly why PnR used to be great and now is only frequented by a handful of fanatics (the people who care about the content enough to be arsed to send a PM to saint).  If people had to send Saint an PM asking for special permission to access the Everything Else forum it would have exactly the same effect.  Traffic to EE would drop off sharply.  Only a fraction of people would continue visiting the forum which would not only deprive those people of EE, but it would deprive people in EE from those people's contributions.  It's easy to say, "Well . . . those people must not care about the content of EE enough to send saint a PM."  To which the only logical response is, "Well . . . yeah, obviously.  So?"

I used to post somewhat often in PnR, but it was the fanatics that got me to stop.  It got to the point that where anything you said required a bibliography with at least 3 sources sited, and each source needed to be from sites with differing political leanings then the rest.  I decided it wasn't worth the effort and decided to leave it to the fanatics, so I rarely post anything anymore.

That's not true.   You kept submitting your bibliographies in MLA style when we told you it had to be in Turabian style, so we kicked you out.

[shmokes]

Since you just printed it out, I've been looking through this...
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=35408.0;all

Oh . . . man.  What a trip down memory lane.  Good times.   It's criminal that Chris went through and edited the content out of all of his posts. 

[Dexter]

I say delete the forum, this is arcade controls not politics and religion.

@Malenko

Its the very fact that the main forum is not political or religious in nature that gives the politics and religion section such a wide range of opinions. You don't just get a bunch of republicans moaning about liberals, or a bunch of christians moaning about muslims.

A politics or religion based forum would not have the range of views necessary for the type of debate you see in P+R on various issues.

My 2 cents: Open up access to P+R to any forum members with a certain post count, but without first having to send a PM to saint. Less hassle from him and more likely to add some fresh viewpoints to P+R.

[Ed_McCarron]

Vote yes.
The arguments are fun to read.

Your avatar is fun to look at (",)

Misty?

Let 'em all in.  Misery loves company.

[Ed_McCarron]

I compare it to a diseased hooker on the corner, you think its fine for her to be there that if I ignore her that's the same as her not being there. I say I don't want a hooker on my street corner.

What would Stingray do ?

 

Help dispose of the hooker once she succumbed to her various diseases?

[missioncontrol]

if your complaining about the lack of people in PnR you could always post a reminder in your signature that there is a PnR board visible upon request.

Kind of like a member drive.

[Malenko]

I say delete the forum, this is arcade controls not politics and religion.

@Malenko

Its the very fact that the main forum is not political or religious in nature that gives the politics and religion section such a wide range of opinions. You don't just get a bunch of republicans moaning about liberals, or a bunch of christians moaning about muslims.

A politics or religion based forum would not have the range of views necessary for the type of debate you see in P+R on various issues.

My 2 cents: Open up access to P+R to any forum members with a certain post count, but without first having to send a PM to saint. Less hassle from him and more likely to add some fresh viewpoints to P+R.

your 2 cents is about how it is now, which is the way I'd like it to stay, the deletetion was me being the aformentioned ---uvula--- =)

I voted, thats the extent of my power. I digress and withdraw, enjoy the "discussion"!

[saint]

Going to leave this up for one more day...

[mr.Curmudgeon]

The point of a minimum prerequisite is to protect the people in PnR from trolls.

That never stopped Dartful.   

[WunderCade]

Made a decision yet?  Also, since we seem to be heading toward a more adult attitude on discourse, is the IGNORE feature going to be rearing it's head again, or are we resilient enough to handle contrary viewpoints?  Let's not become like the Canadians at U of Ottowa.

[CheffoJeffo]

Let's not become like the Canadians at U of Ottowa.

 

For the record, most of the "2000" protesters were actually people trying to get in to see Ms. Coulter and it was the organizers, not the university nor anybody in government, who canceled. I absolutely think it was regrettable that the event was canceled, but the spin that is being put on it is just silly.

CAVEAT: My brother works at U of O

[patrickl]

Made a decision yet?  Also, since we seem to be heading toward a more adult attitude on discourse, is the IGNORE feature going to be rearing it's head again, or are we resilient enough to handle contrary viewpoints?  Let's not become like the Canadians at U of Ottowa.

The ignore feature is not to block out contrary viewpoints, but to block out people who write mostly useless replies.

[saint]

Hey guys - I've had two things that are distracting me so I'm putting this to the side right now.

1. I've been threatened with a lawyer.
2. My father's had a heart attack.

Things are a bit muddled right now so thank you everyone for the feedback, I'll come back around to this when everything's sorted out.

--- John

[Vanguard]

Saint.  Sorry to hear about your father.  I hope everything turns out okay.

[Ginsu Victim]

Hey guys - I've had two things that are distracting me so I'm putting this to the side right now.

1. I've been threatened with a lawyer.

With emphasis on the word "threat" 

2. My father's had a heart attack.

We'll keep your family in our prayers and hope everything turns out for the better.

[patrickl]

1. I've been threatened with a lawyer.

Shmokes is technically not a lawyer yet is he?

Sorry to hear about your dad. Hope he recovers well.

[Malenko]

hope all is well with the family, my dad had a heart attack and that's some scary stuff, he'll be in my prayers.

As for the lawyer.....I hope he has a heart attack.

[Ginsu Victim]

As for the lawyer.....I hope he has a heart attack.

I wouldn't wish that on most people. Especially non-existent (in this case) lawyers

[saint]

As for the lawyer.....I hope he has a heart attack.

I wouldn't wish that on most people. Especially non-existent (in this case) lawyers

Lawyers are immune... they don't have the pre-requisites.

[danny_galaga]

I think 50 minimum is more appropriate.

The point of a minimum prerequisite is to protect the people in PnR from trolls.  If you would opt out why would you possibly prefer a 50 minimum to a 10 minimum?

I realised that really, what would be better to keep away trolls is a 10 DAY minimum. After all, how hard is it to rack up any number of posts if you're itchin' for a fight? But wait 10 days and the moment has passed...

[danny_galaga]

Are there really only 6 members or is that just an exaggeration?

I used to contribute a lot more. But then i realised that a lot of the PNR politics is internal US affairs, and i was being a dick for sticking my nose in...

[patrickl]

I think 50 minimum is more appropriate.

The point of a minimum prerequisite is to protect the people in PnR from trolls.  If you would opt out why would you possibly prefer a 50 minimum to a 10 minimum?

I realised that really, what would be better to keep away trolls is a 10 DAY minimum. After all, how hard is it to rack up any number of posts if you're itchin' for a fight? But wait 10 days and the moment has passed...

Yeah I remember a couple (literally a couple) of religious fanatics that just posted 10 useless posts in EE so they could be annoying in PNR.

Maybe if you make that a daily requirement they would simply just do that every day though.

[danny_galaga]

I think 50 minimum is more appropriate.

The point of a minimum prerequisite is to protect the people in PnR from trolls.  If you would opt out why would you possibly prefer a 50 minimum to a 10 minimum?

I realised that really, what would be better to keep away trolls is a 10 DAY minimum. After all, how hard is it to rack up any number of posts if you're itchin' for a fight? But wait 10 days and the moment has passed...

Yeah I remember a couple (literally a couple) of religious fanatics that just posted 10 useless posts in EE so they could be annoying in PNR.

Maybe if you make that a daily requirement they would simply just do that every day though.

I meant that a new member would have to wait ten days before they have access to PNR. That would stop most drop in trolls because the thread they were attracted to (or invited over by a member here) would normally have run it's course by then. Maybe 20 days would be better...

[patrickl]

oh lol 

[saint]

Alright everyone - thank you for the feedback. After quite a bit of consideration, and in no small part watching how divisive even the discussion of the P&R forum can become, I've come to the conclusion that P&R really doesn't add much to BYOAC yet detracts from the atmosphere and community quite a bit. Regretfully, for I *like* P&R personally, I've shelved it for now. Maybe in the future when politics are not so controversial and the country/community so oppositely polarized we can look at bringing it back...

--- saint

[Ed_McCarron]

Or is this a shelving for perhaps, oh, one particular day?

[missioncontrol]

how about a forum board we can all agree in..

The "missioncontrol is awesome" board

[Vanguard]

But what are we gonna do about all the people that don't actually own any arcade games but live in that forum?  

You don't think Dartful has an arcade game in his mom's basement?

[shmokes]

It's a sad day for political discourse in America   

[Ginsu Victim]

Saint shuts down dissenting viewpoints. Time to leave this site forever.

[shmokes]

I'm not going to leave the site . . . I just think it's sad to see even Saint get so jaded and end up acting more or less like a Republican.  He still runs a great site and I appreciate him a great deal.  I've just lost a little respect for him.

[Ginsu Victim]

At least he didn't get rid of the arcade sections and keep ONLY P&R.

[Vanguard]

I'm not going to leave the site . . . I just think it's sad to see even Saint get so jaded and end up acting more or less like a Republican.  He still runs a great site and I appreciate him a great deal.  I've just lost a little respect for him.

You know, I think what Saints intent was to give you what you wanted all along.   With P&R gone, we're supposed to just use EE.   

Time to go start some a thread about those gay republican evangelical domestic terrorist who smoke but don't actually like it.

[mr.Curmudgeon]

I guess he just got tired of me being right all the time. meh.   

[AtomSmasher]

Wow, that was unexpected.  I don't think anyone was saying PnR was hurting the site overall in its current state since only the few people who really wanted to see it could see it.  Kind of crazy how a discussion on whether PnR should be open to all resulted with it being open to none.

[Ginsu Victim]

Saint's got a bullet for each of you with your name on it. Don't doubt it.

[HaRuMaN]

Wow, that was unexpected.  I don't think anyone was saying PnR was hurting the site overall in its current state since only the few people who really wanted to see it could see it.  Kind of crazy how a discussion on whether PnR should be open to all resulted with it being open to none.

What day is it?   

[Hoopz]

Wow, that was unexpected.  I don't think anyone was saying PnR was hurting the site overall in its current state since only the few people who really wanted to see it could see it.  Kind of crazy how a discussion on whether PnR should be open to all resulted with it being open to none.

What day is it?   

Thursday.  Lazy ass.  You can find it on your computer.

 

[Vanguard]

Wow, that was unexpected.  I don't think anyone was saying PnR was hurting the site overall in its current state since only the few people who really wanted to see it could see it.  Kind of crazy how a discussion on whether PnR should be open to all resulted with it being open to none.

What day is it?   

The day freedom died at BYOAC.   

[WunderCade]

What day is it?  

[mr.Curmudgeon]

Wow, that was unexpected.  I don't think anyone was saying PnR was hurting the site overall in its current state since only the few people who really wanted to see it could see it.  Kind of crazy how a discussion on whether PnR should be open to all resulted with it being open to none.

What day is it?  

The day freedom died at BYOAC.  

I thought this was a dictatorship?!       <---- Saint!

[saint]

Yes, of course, it is April Fool's day, and this was my annual feeble effort  With 70% of those voting for public access, in fact I have opened up P&R to all regular members. Please don't hit me.

I will start looking into how to set it to allow an opt-out (should be easy enough, just don't have the time at this moment) for those who would prefer not to participate in the joy that is P&R

(Did I mention please don't hit me?)

--- saint

[saint]

(Would people please let me know if they have problems accessing P&R?)

[shmokes]

Yes, of course, it is April Fool's day, and this was my annual feeble effort  

For what it's worth, I though it was a pretty good effort, though you didn't get me.   

[CheffoJeffo]

I can't access PnR, but I think that it is neither a problem nor an accident!

 

[Ginsu Victim]

Got in. Not sure I'll hang out, but I pulled it up just to see.

[shmokes]

Ginsu, NOOOOOOOO.  It's like crack.

[saint]

I can't access PnR, but I think that it is neither a problem nor an accident!

 

OK, think I got that fixed. Was due to your stars You're not a regular member.

* saint waits for the jokes to write themselves...

[Ginsu Victim]

Ginsu, NOOOOOOOO.  It's like crack.

It is. I had to stop myself. I already know too much about the way some of you think now and it has affected my opinion of several people. Told you so.

[HaRuMaN]

Can you re-hide it until you have the option in place to opt-out?  I don't want to see all those topics in "unread posts since last visit" link.

Kthxbai...

[Ginsu Victim]

Can you re-hide it until you have the option in place to opt-out?  I don't want to see all those topics in "unread posts since last visit" link.

Kthxbai...

True dat

[Malenko]

Can you re-hide it until you have the option in place to opt-out?  I don't want to see all those topics in "unread posts since last visit" link.

Kthxbai...

True dat

+2

[Ed_McCarron]

You're not a regular member.

* saint waits for the jokes to write themselves...

Wrong forum.

[CheffoJeffo]

You're not a regular member.

* saint waits for the jokes to write themselves...

Wrong forum.

But at the other place, the admin waits for ... well, everything ...

[Malenko]

talk about re-opening the flood gates!

Politics 'n Religion   2 Members and 0 Guests are viewing this board.
and I was 1 of them at the time.

I'm assuming/hoping the forum will be closed again at midnight, when april fools is over.

[shmokes]

LOL . . . Malenko, what in the name of god are you doing in PnR?   Need I remind you how you feel about that place? 

[saint]

talk about re-opening the flood gates!

Politics 'n Religion   2 Members and 0 Guests are viewing this board.
and I was 1 of them at the time.

I'm assuming/hoping the forum will be closed again at midnight, when april fools is over.

Heh. I've only got so much April Fool's in me, and this morning was all she wrote. 70% of the folks who voted wanted it open so....

[Malenko]

Heh. I've only got so much April Fool's in me, and this morning was all she wrote. 70% of the folks who voted wanted it open so....

and 75% either wanted it to stay hidden or have the option to hide it.....  

LOL . . . Malenko, what in the name of god are you doing in PnR?   Need I remind you how you feel about that place?  

Its april fools, besides, looked what I posted in there...cause that's all that is ever gonna be in there from me, I saw the topics, no thanks. Not so sure you have the prerequisites to use an expression such as "name of god" when you are godless.

[Vanguard]

Not so sure you have the prerequisites to use an expression such as "name of god" when you are godless.

Wrong forum.  Take it to P&R.

[shmokes]

It's a figure of speach.  When I say, "What the ---fudgesicle--- are you doing," I don't actually wonder anything about "---fudgesicle---".

[Malenko]

Not so sure you have the prerequisites to use an expression such as "name of god" when you are godless.

Wrong forum.  Take it to P&R.

at least SOMEONE got the joke.

[saint]

OK, it's April 2nd. Things are back to normal(?) now. I'm still toying with the idea of opening up P&R in some fashion but I don't have the mental chutzpah to deal with it right now.

I am going to ask folks to make sure P&R doesn't spill out to the rest of the forum, including personal titles and signatures that I've been slack on previously. If you've got one that's P or R, please change it before I have to exercise my creativity (hint Shmokes) 

[Ginsu Victim]

The news headline still says PnR is open access, btw.