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Main => Everything Else => Topic started by: tommy on October 23, 2007, 12:02:02 am
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As many of you know i work with glass and it sometimes takes me to many peoples houses with broken glass and as i fix the patio door glass or window glass or whatever it may be, many people ask me if i come across a lot of this sort of thing and when i tell them i do and most times the best way to keep people out of your yard or make them not want to try to break into your house is to have a big dog. I sometimes tell them you should look into getting a pit bull or other big dogs "normally known" (i guess this is where the stereo type works well) for deterring people from wanting to take a chance on breaking into their house and more times then not they have the wrong idea or impression about these dogs and i laugh.
I can't understand why so many people rely on horror stories and say "oh no, that dog is not safe to be around" when they can be as safe as being around any normal person.
People are so ignorant sometimes and it seems we are afraid of so many things or can't understand so many things in life, STILL, as if we were living in the 50's when so many things were not allowed or when we had so many bad ideas about so many things we all do just fine in todays world.
I almost got into an argument with a customer just like here when he ignorantly said all pit bulls are not safe to be around and are killer dogs. I almost had to walk out of the guys house and tell him to call another guy to fix his glass, but i didn't.
You can't put all things good or bad in the same category in life no matter how you like to spin things.
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Pitbulls are insanely dangerous dogs. They should be banned.
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Sure, if you know how to handle them they can be very safe but so are tigers and lions. The problem is that a lot of people don't know how to handle a pitbull. Dogs are very sensitive to their place in the social order and will treat anyone that is afraid of them as inferior and anyone who is not as a threat, unless it's established that the dog is the inferior one.
When someone who is a stranger to the dog, is not afraid and tries for instance to pet it, it will be confused and try to ascertain it's superiority. This ususally results in biting. A pitbull that bites is more dangerous because it's jaws will lock. This virtual circle will establish the dogs bad name, causing fear etc. There is nothing worse or more dangerous then a confused dog.
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Sure, if you know how to handle them they can be very safe but so are tigers and lions.
Yeah, just ask Roy Horn of "Siegfried & Roy" fame.
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Wow. Don't be that guy. You know beforehand, unless you're mentally retarded, how people feel about pit bulls. It doesn't matter how legitimate their beliefs are. Why would you bait a customer by suggesting they get a pit bull, when you know what the likely response is going to be? That's a customer, for christ's sake! I'm an atheist, Tommy. Not only that, but I enjoy blasphemy. I get a huge, completely unwarranted kick out of it. But in a business setting, I'm not just going to walk into some random person's house or office and start talking about how laughable the idea of Jesus is. Cos I know beforehand, that there's a REALLY REALLY REALLY good chance that this person takes Jesus seriously. It doesn't matter that I think he's a joke.
Be a professional Tommy. Real life is not the internet. I'm great in real life. Any one of you would thoroughly enjoy my company. But here, I'm often a bit of an arrogant, know-it-all ---uvula---. shmokes is an alterego, not just an avatar.
In other news, a few days ago I got the following message from a friend on MySpace:
Oct 19 2007 3:22 AM
Comment Back - Send Message - Block User
You called it . . . my dog almost killed me when I walked into the living room at 3 am. That was after nearly shaking a cat to death earlier in the day. I can't wait until I'm found dead with my face chewed off . . .
I'm always telling him that his dog is poorly behaved because she goes ---smurfing--- nuts when someone knocks on the door. He always says she's just excited and not really aggressive. FWIW, I don't think pit bulls are dangerous. I think they're more dangerous than almost any other type of dog, but less dangerous than other things that I engage in without thinking twice. The sweetest dog I've ever known was a rottweiler. But rottweilers are still dangerous compared to just about every other breed of dog. Still, though, the danger isn't high. I don't feel threatened every time I'm in the presence of a pit bull or a rottweiler. Chances of being attacked for no reason are barely above zero. It's more likely with a pit bull than a border collie, but the possibilities are still remote enough that you can breath easily. You're gonna be fine.
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You guys act as if these dogs are a loaded pistol ready to go off and that's not the case. It's just a dog just like any other and that is where the confusion starts.
As far as shmokes comment, i didn't start in with this but i defended it. I can't stand by and let ignorance go by and do nothing without a tleast explaining my feelings on the matter, and as i said, i did let it go and did not let it get in the way.
Also, i wish you would start using better comparisons, Jesus is a total other matter altogether and cannot be compared here. That's just not a fair thing to say, shmokes.
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Wow. Don't be that guy. You know beforehand, unless you're mentally retarded, how people feel about pit bulls.
I don't know that from looking at a guy. How do i know they would be just another guy making the same general statements as others do. I've ran into many people who agree with me.
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You did start it. You didn't just stop at, "A big dog is a good way to keep an intruder out." You said, "A big dog, like a pit bull, is the best way to keep an intruder out." It's the same thing as Jesus. I know going in that the person most likely has strong feelings about Jesus that do not coincide with mine, so I'm not gonna bring it up. If the person comes at me with Jesus talk, sure I'll defend my position, but I'm not going to bait a customer into an argument. The difference there, is that he/she is the ---uvula--- I'm I'm dealing with him/her, rather than the other way around.
Similarly, you KNOW how people feel about pit bulls. You think that they're stupid for feeling that way. But instead of keeping it to yourself you're baiting them into an argument. You toss pit bull into the conversation, knowing beforehand that more likely than not the person thinks pit bulls are all ticking time bombs, and then you have the audacity to get huffy about it and pretend it wasn't exactly the outcome you expected.
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and then you have the audacity to get huffy about it and pretend it wasn't exactly the outcome you expected.
That was good man, i enjoyed that laugh. ;D
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This is not a believe of whether there is a god or not. This is a fact that some people cannot grasp the idea that a well trained dog is not dangerous no matter the breed.
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I don't know that from looking at a guy. How do i know they would be just another guy making the same general statements as others do. I've ran into many people who agree with me.
Yes you do. You know how he feels about pit bulls just like I know how some random person feels about Jesus. In point of fact, I don't know. But I know that there's a high ---smurfing--- potentiality for strong feelings on the subject and, more likely than not, the person disagrees with me. Same thing in your case. You don't KNOW by looking at the guy whether he thinks pit bulls can only sustain themselves by eating children, but you KNOW that he probably does feel this way because you've talked to a million people about it. Next to glass and the NY Giants, you've made defending pit bulls your life's work. You know how people feel about them.
There are a lot of atheists in America. A good 10-15% of the population is atheist. It's perfectly reasonable to think that I could just start talking ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- on Jesus and there's a decent chance that the person I'm talking to will also be atheist. But I KNOW that there's a damned good chance that I ain't talking to an atheist, just like you know that the person probably thinks pit bulls are dangerous and should not be owned and bred.
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I'm not qualified to make that assumption and neither are you. I don't know who thinks guns should be banned or who thinks what about anything until i start talking about it, do i? You can't be serious.
I may be able to tell what is a sensitive subject or not but that's no reason to NOT talk to people about it.
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This is not a believe of whether there is a god or not. This is a fact that some people cannot grasp the idea that a well trained dog is not dangerous no matter the breed.
That's beside the point. First off, that's ---smurfing--- ridiculous; but I'll get back to that. It doesn't matter how stupid they are. Some people can't grasp the fact that hydrogenated oils are killing them, but I'm not going to go into a customer's home and start an argument with them about their margarine.
Secondly, Tommy, I agree that people act ridiculous about pit bulls, but no less ridiculous than you act about them. They're all about overreacting and screaming about the sky is falling, but you're at the other end of the spectrum sticking your head in the sand. Pit bulls are far more dangerous than other breeds of dogs. A well trained pit bull is more dangerous than a well trained chihuahua and a poorly trained pit bull is more dangerous than a poorly trained chihuahua. I have two cats. I've had both since they were kittens and both have had virtually the same life. One, however, is aggressive, while the other is a total fraidy-cat. Animals have personalities that go beyond training. If you are going to run into a bear in the wilderness, you WANT it to be a black bear. Grizzly bears and Polar bears are far more dangerous. They attack people more often. Their attacks are more often deadly. They are objectively more dangerous than black bears.
Perhaps you would have more success in your quest to get people to be more realistic in the way the view pit bulls if you, yourself, were realistic about it.
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I'm not qualified to make that assumption and neither are you. I don't know who thinks guns should be banned or who thinks what about anything until i start talking about it, do i? You can't be serious.
I may be able to tell what is a sensitive subject or not but that's no reason to NOT talk to people about it.
Yes it is. Of course it is. Its your customer in a business setting. You make small talk. You talk about things that will make them happy. Don't tell them how you feel about abortion, jesus, pit bulls, illegal immigration, etc. You're a fool to push those hot buttons. But at the very least, don't push the hot buttons and then ---smurfette--- about it like you're a victim.
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Dude, this was a setting to where a pit bull conversation was warrented as in home safety and what a person could do to protect them self. Don't make this as if i went around knocking on random doors trying to get people to believe what i do for no reason.
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Pit bulls are far more dangerous than other breeds of dogs. A well trained pit bull is more dangerous than a well trained chihuahua and a poorly trained pit bull is more dangerous than a poorly trained chihuahua.
Yes. And a 357 magnum has the potential to kill you "more" than a 22 cal bullet does. Does that change the fact that there has to be a will to kill for any of that to matter? Does that change the fact that if you give a "nice person" holding either of those guns that it won't matter what caliber the gun is because he won't be shooting anyone?
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Pitbulls are the antichrist. I saw them in the original GhostBusters and they were as dangerous there as they are in society. To heck with building a wall between here and Mexico, I say open a kennel!
(http://www.mwctoys.com/images/review_ghostbusters_1d.jpg)
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Yes. And a 357 magnum has the potential to kill you "more" than a 22 cal bullet does. Does that change the fact that there has to be a will to kill for any of that to matter? Does that change the fact that if you give a "nice person" holding either of those guns that it won't matter what caliber the gun is because he won't be shooting anyone?
Beside the point Tommy. Beside the point. I don't care what your views are. I don't care whether you're right or wrong. Frankly, I don't even care whether you're an ---uvula--- to your customers. But it's bad business. No way around that.
By the way, a .357 magnum is an inanimate object. You probably know that, but based on your arguments it's hard to be sure.
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Pitbulls are as unpredictable and dangerous as the damn fools who choose to own this type of animal. They were bred for a purpose and ultimately genetic programming dictates behaviour.
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I really don't see how people still don't understand that pitbulls should all be kept in cages (or killed).
They banned those dogs overhere luckily, but before that it was like almost every month there was a pitbull mauling a kid. Owner says "Yeah the dog was always sweet as a puppy. It really loved kids. We had no idea it would all of a sudden grab that kids face. Must have been a sudden move from the kid or something that set him off". Or there was "I know it's a dangerous dog, but I always keep it in house. Until that one time when I didn't lock the front door and it grabbed that kid."
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You guys are missing the obvious! If a gun makes you safer, and a dog makes you safer, then the safestest thing in the whole wide world???
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This is a fact that some people cannot grasp the idea that a well trained dog is not dangerous no matter the breed.
tommy -- the main reason that people can't take what you say seriously is that you say so many ridiculous things while trying to make some lesset lesser point. Pretty much every dog is dangerous, even if well-trained. Consider the situation where the animal is frightened -- instinct takes over. Or stung by an insect. You know how you react when you see a pretty girl ? That's instinct and it ain't ever completely overcome by training.
As for guard dogs, my suggestion is to do what my parents did when they lived in Brazil -- the neighbours had Rottweilers, Mastiffs, Great Danes, Dobermans and Shepherds -- my parents got a pair of Old English sheepdogs (named Simon and Garfunkel). Worked like a charm.
;D
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Why would you bait a customer by suggesting they get a pit bull, when you know what the likely response is going to be? That's a customer, for christ's sake! <...>
Be a professional Tommy. Real life is not the internet. <...>
That was totally my thoughts on the subject too... I'd seriously consider firing an employee who was in a customer's home and was starting arguments with customers on subjects completely unrelated to the job. You're supposed to make the customers feel happy you were there and feel encouraged to invite you back for more work. Anything less than that is hurting your employer.
I may be able to tell what is a sensitive subject or not but that's no reason to NOT talk to people about it.
Yes there is a very good reason not to talk about it. You're at a customer site performing work duties. You don't start conversations about potentially volatile topics. If they try to, you slide the topic to something safer. That is professionalism. You're not there for a social call. Do the job, be pleasant, make sure they are happy with the work, and then get out.
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oh geeez not this crap again
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=72171.0
Tommy,
you are NOT single handily going to change everyone's view of pitbulls. Maybe you need to find a pitbull owners forum if you want people to share your opinions about these dogs.
First off you are going to a customers house. You are baiting these customers with your responses and then get all upset when they don't share your views. WTF are you on some type of crusade or something?
These dogs stereotyped as dangerous, but hey, if you want one and think you are responsible enough... then fine keep your dog indoors and realize that opinions differ and everyone is not going to share your beliefs. From some of the threads you start, I almost think the only reason you have a pit is because of the controversy surrounding them. Your responses read as if you view yourself as having superiority because you think you have a handle on your dog. Maybe you do, but that doesn't mean everyone does and there are plenty of owners who don't.
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You can't ignore the fact that many dogs species exist because they are bred to enhance certain traits -- a purebred hound, for example, will always have a greater innate propensity to become an effective hunting dog than, say, a Shih Tsu. It ain't like having a machine gun in the house but never buying any bullets... dogs will always come with their own ammo... Pit Bulls are, along with some other breeds, very effective killers -- you can't train out genetics. I have a 1 year old and a Golden Retriever. My dog could easily kill my son, I won't pretend like it isn't a possibility. But given a choice between him and a dog that's been BRED to be an efficent biter, guess which one I let my boy live with? All things considered equal, bad trainer, good trainer whatever, the breed & inborn traits become the variable. I don't think the Roy Horn case is really that far off, and man, could that guy train a tiger!
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The key difference is that if your dog tried to kill your son - and it is an independent living thing, so it could happen - you could stop a golden retriever. It wouldn't be all that hard if you committed to doing it and the dog wouldn't have done critical damage by then.
A pit bull would kill the kid and you if you didn't have a serious weapon. At a minimum it would severely injure at least one of you. You would have no chance of stopping it with your bare hands.
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I saw a clip of a pitbull who attacked it's owner and would not let go of his arm. The police was already on the scene and tried shooting the dog, but it still would not release. Looked like it took 5 shots. At least it attacked it's owner (which apparently they often seem to do), but still.
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A pit bull's jaw sometimes will not release even when it passes out - you can kill the dog and the jaws are still clamped shut. A lot of myths say they even have a "lock" so the dog is unable to release but that's not true - the pit bulls are just that fierce when they attack. Some of them you can beat to death with a bat and the jaws are still clamped on something. Pepper spray doesn't work either. They just continue the attack blind and up the aggression. They are not immune to pepper spray, though, as some will tell you.
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A story from my childhood...
We had a 'purebred' pit bull when I was a kid, (my father used to tell EVERY-freakin'-body that...'he's a purebred, got papers...blah, blah, blah').
I was NEVER mean to this dog and it was always very affectionate and playful. My father was the sort of guy who was a non-discriminating abuser so he had a tendency to kick the dog around when he thought it did something out of line.
Anyway, this dog would obey my every command and was never anything but protective of me.
Then, after having him for probably five years, I was feeding him while my father was away and I was looking after my sister and step-brother...and spilled the food.
He began growling as I was picking up the food and putting it into his dish. I didn't think too much of it, thinking he was just wanting me to be done with it so he could eat. At the point where I was nearly done and just grabbing individual pieces of dog food, no longer handfuls, he lunged and bit my left forearm. I was TERRIFIED. I'd knew very well what the dog could do if it locked it's jaw, (having heard my father blather on about it endlessly for years), and I don't know if it was adrenalin, sheer terror, or what but I threw that dog across the room. His bite had punctured my left forearm in four places.
For the next hour, I basically had a strategic stand off with the dog in the living room, dining room, and kitchen of the house. I was in a situation where the dog was F-IN' PISSED, growling, and snapping. We circled one another that whole time, while I held him off with whatever objects I could grab a hold of, and I had my sister and step-brother lock themselves in the bathroom. I finally managed to get the dog locked in the back bedroom of the house - mine - and called my father.
I went to the doctor, got shots, a couple dozen stitches, and a completely different interaction with the dog after that. I only lived at home for about two more years and I never really tried to bond with the dog again after that.
My father wouldn't even entertain getting rid of his 'purebred' pit bull, so that was that.
I don't know if this directly applies to what you folks are getting at but I know that I would gladly own a pit bull again today as long as some turd wasn't kicking the crap out of it all the time negating any positive interactions and/or training the dog might get from someone else. I believe as much as can be believed that the reason the dog behaved that way was because of the abuse it took and NOT because of anything having to do with me.
...hopefully that all makes sense. :)
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That instance was probably the dog reacting to something that had happened in that situation in the past - your father kicking it for making a mess of the food, most likely. The dog was expecting it to happen again, but your father is the alpha male and not you, so it didn't feel the need to wait around to be kicked by you. Since a pit bull doesn't have much of a tendency to clam down once aggravated, it took a while to get it confined. Trust me on this... the dog didn't want to fight you. If it had you'd be dead. It just didn't want to be hurt by you. Sounds like it gave you ample warning before it bit you and you misinterpreted it.
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umm, maybe you should just keep your mouth shut and do your job. The last thing I want when I have any kind of repairman in my house is for him to start an argument or try to force his views/beliefs on me.
You really should be more professional, you are out there representing your company and I'm sure they wouldn't be very happy with you starting ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- with their customers.
Do we really need another pit bull thread??? You didn't get enough arguing out of the other one that you had to go and start this one?
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That instance was probably the dog reacting to something that had happened in that situation in the past - your father kicking it for making a mess of the food, most likely. The dog was expecting it to happen again, but your father is the alpha male and not you, so it didn't feel the need to wait around to be kicked by you. Since a pit bull doesn't have much of a tendency to clam down once aggravated, it took a while to get it confined. Trust me on this... the dog didn't want to fight you. If it had you'd be dead. It just didn't want to be hurt by you. Sounds like it gave you ample warning before it bit you and you misinterpreted it.
Perhaps it was a response based on past experience, I can't say due to the fact that I don't speak dog or read minds.
I didn't and don't believe the dog wanted to fight me either.
I guess what I was illustrating was that if you treat a dog like crap, it will probably end up acting crappy.
Did it give me warning...? Well, the growling that he did was something that did occur on many occasions as food was being given so it's hard to think that what had been standard behavior would escalate to an attack. I didn't mention that it was something he often did in the narrative I gave before though so that certainly might have seemed like a warning.
I can tell you that the behavior the dog displayed prior to biting me didn't come across as a warning at all based on the past I'd had with it.
Sadly, the dog continued to be mistreated for the remainder of it's life after I moved out.
It wound up becoming more and more aggressive and was eventually put to sleep after attacking my father. At least he got that part right. :)
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Growling, when not in the middle of physical play, is almost always a warning. If the dog had growled before while being fed then it was probably warning you on those occasions, too. Why it chose this instance to bite and not others is something you can't get from the dog's mind. Sounds like the dog was generally afraid of being kicked while being fed. Maybe your father used to kick it away from the bowl while refilling? That would definitely cause that sort of behaviour - a negative association with the act of refilling the food dish. Or maybe just one bad instance - one kick that really hurt the dog while refilling the dish. Dogs, for the most part, are stimuli/response creatures, and if they have a consistent behaviour with a specific trigger like this there is a reason for it.
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This is not a believe of whether there is a god or not. This is a fact that some people cannot grasp the idea that a well trained dog is not dangerous no matter the breed.
I disagree. All dogs, all animals, as a matter of fact probably everything with a brain is capable of being dangerous.
Now, that said, if I had a choice of animals I want biting me? Pits are probably pretty far down the list, and I love dogs.
Hell, my neighbors min-pin is more dangerous than my golden. That little yapper has drawn blood on several occasions.
Again, that said, the golden is not beyond snapping if it feels threatened, or, more likely, startled.
I look at it like this. Would I rather play russian roulette with five bullets or one?
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My neighbors got a dog this summer - a very friendly mix of some sort of terrier/retriever. They pay near zero attention to her and keep her in the fenced in backyard. She loves to play - I reach over the fence and play with her all the time and she runs over whenever I'm out there hoping I'll chuck her ball around for a few minutes. The reason I mention this is that I've never heard her make a sound. Not a bark, not a growl, nothing whatsoever over several months. Not even when playing hard tug of war (which she loves) - that's a game that a dog often growls over. Could they have done something to her vocal cords? It's not natural for an active dog to be this quiet.
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Growling, when not in the middle of physical play, is almost always a warning. If the dog had growled before while being fed then it was probably warning you on those occasions, too. Why it chose this instance to bite and not others is something you can't get from the dog's mind. Sounds like the dog was generally afraid of being kicked while being fed. Maybe your father used to kick it away from the bowl while refilling? That would definitely cause that sort of behaviour - a negative association with the act of refilling the food dish. Or maybe just one bad instance - one kick that really hurt the dog while refilling the dish. Dogs, for the most part, are stimuli/response creatures, and if they have a consistent behaviour with a specific trigger like this there is a reason for it.
Oy! I understand how growling is typically supposed to be interpreted! :) As for the 'stimuli/response', of course that's true. Still, the only changed variable in the equation THAT day was the SPILLED food. I had fed the dog in the same way at the same time for several years. The attack at that point was simply unexpected but most likely completely reasonable...you know as far as dog logic goes. :)
Again though, my point is that it wasn't the type of dog that was the issue it was the treatment. {See the 'crap/crappy' statement in my previous post...}
:)
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My neighbors got a dog this summer - a very friendly mix of some sort of terrier/retriever. They pay near zero attention to her and keep her in the fenced in backyard. She loves to play - I reach over the fence and play with her all the time and she runs over whenever I'm out there hoping I'll chuck her ball around for a few minutes. The reason I mention this is that I've never heard her make a sound. Not a bark, not a growl, nothing whatsoever over several months. Not even when playing hard tug of war (which she loves) - that's a game that a dog often growls over. Could they have done something to her vocal cords? It's not natural for an active dog to be this quiet.
My mother-in-law has two shelties. She got them from a shelter I believe. IIRC, both of the dogs were mistreated and my mother-in-law was contacted because she had had shelties in the past. One of the dogs came "de-barked", which IIRC means the vocal chords were cut. The dog still tries to bark, but it sounds kinda like the dog has laryngitis. But it definitely still does make some noise. And, for the record, my mother-in-law absolutely loves dogs and would never have done this to the dog; it came that way.
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Can't say I've seen that done but it would make sense. Pretty mean to do to an animal, especially since they also have a little yip dog that barks at the bigger one.
Yrm0m has shelter shelties.
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Anyone up for donations to have Tommy de-barked?
Oh, wait, that wouldn't keep him from typing.
Nevermind.
;D
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Oh, wait, that wouldn't keep him from typing.
Well, he does work with glass...
Yes, that's a joke.
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Pitbulls are perfectly safe, until they're not, which is the point. You never know when they won't be safe any more and no one who has any kind of risk aversion for their kids is willing to bet the life or face of their child on the possibility that this particular pitbull won't go off. Pitbulls have their place in junkyards.
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I just think it is funny that Tommy and Schmokes stayed up until 3am arguing about this. :laugh2:
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I just think it is funny that Tommy and Schmokes stayed up until 3am arguing about this. :laugh2:
I gave up chuckling at their back and forth around 1am. :D
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I'm a law student. Trust me, it ain't BYOAC that's keeping me up till 3 a.m. (though if I stopped allowing myself to be distracted by it I might have got to bed by 2 a.m., admittedly)
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I like how some of you like to use the fear of the unknown here and how the dog can just "snap" By saying that it allows all of you to not have to come up with any real reason or facts on these dogs and just take the easy ridiculous way out and just damn the whole breed without having to form any real idea as to why the dog really did what he did.
Now, i don't know about other dogs and how other dogs were raised from a pup and what they went through at a young age. I don't know what guy trained (or didn't train) these other pit bulls you speak of and now after your next door neighbor has him he is willing to bite people. My dog is a normal everyday dog that you wouldn't think twice about, period, and i take offense at people who want to throw my dog in with the rest.
Some of you wonder why i made another thread or why i continue to talk about this and it's very simple why. I can't let your crazy ideas about these dogs go by and if you had your way you would make decisions for everyone and have them all killed. This is like a Nazi pit bull hater board from a time not so fun in history. You remember the last group of people who were naive enough to think stupid things about another certain group of people, don't you?
BTW, this glass business is mine so there is no company i represent..
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This is not a believe of whether there is a god or not. This is a fact that some people cannot grasp the idea that a well trained dog is not dangerous no matter the breed.
WRONG! Some dogs a so inbread or badly crossbred that they are actually retarded. You tend to notice these dogs as their owners are much alike.
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I like how some of you like to use the fear of the unknown here and how the dog can just "snap" By saying that it allows all of you to not have to come up with any real reason or facts on these dogs and just take the easy ridiculous way out and just damn the whole breed without having to form any real idea as to why the dog really did what he did.
Now, i don't know about other dogs and how other dogs were raised from a pup and what they went through at a young age. I don't know what guy trained (or didn't train) these other pit bulls you speak of and now after your next door neighbor has him he is willing to bite people. My dog is a normal everyday dog that you wouldn't think twice about, period, and i take offense at people who want to throw my dog in with the rest.
Some of you wonder why i made another thread or why i continue to talk about this and it's very simple why. I can't let your crazy ideas about these dogs go by and if you had your way you would make decisions for everyone and have them all killed. This is like a Nazi pit bull hater board from a time not so fun in history. You remember the last group of people who were naive enough to think stupid things about another certain group of people, don't you?
BTW, this glass business is mine so there is no company i represent..
See title.
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Just look at the statistics on dog bites and you'll see Pit Bulls have a much higher than normal incident rate:
http://www.dogbitelaw.com/Dog%20Attacks%201982%20to%202006%20Clifton.pdf
There are also many states that have an outright ban on owning Pit Bulls.
I live in Florida and Florida is planning similiar leigislation banning Pit Bulls and has already done so in areas of Miami.
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Wait you're saying you cant let our crazy ideas about dogs go by? This has to be illegal.
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Just look at the statistics on dog bites and you'll see Pit Bulls have a much higher than normal incident rate:
http://www.dogbitelaw.com/Dog%20Attacks%201982%20to%202006%20Clifton.pdf
There are also many states that have an outright ban on owning Pit Bulls.
I live in Florida and Florida is planning similiar leigislation banning Pit Bulls and has already done so in areas of Miami.
For some reason, I trust the data supplied by the editor of a dog publication more than I trust the data supplied by a pro pit bull website.
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Wow. One kid got killed by a beagle.
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In Snoopy's defense he was drunk.
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Wow. One kid got killed by a beagle.
Because the kid had the leash around its neck and the dog strangled it.
Duh. "Hey honey, hold on... I'll tie the dog to the 2 year olds neck and be right there..."
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Still, that's pretty damn ironic. I had a beagle. The thing barely even blinked nevermind moved around. I used to check it to make sure it hadn't died with its eyes open.
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Maybe the beagle thought the guy wanted him to walk the kid :dunno
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Just look at the statistics on dog bites and you'll see Pit Bulls have a much higher than normal incident rate:
http://www.dogbitelaw.com/Dog%20Attacks%201982%20to%202006%20Clifton.pdf
There are also many states that have an outright ban on owning Pit Bulls.
I live in Florida and Florida is planning similiar leigislation banning Pit Bulls and has already done so in areas of Miami.
Holy hell. Pure Bred Pitt Bulls make up 50% of the attacks on that list...and that is not including trained fighter dogs. Next, Tommy will be saying your statistic is unfairly biased against Pitt Bulls. ;)
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Tommy, pit bulls are more dangerous. Arguing otherwise it's just flatly retarded and makes people dismiss EVERYTHING you have to say. Argue your case with intelligence, man! You can't change the facts. Statistics show beyond any doubt that pit bulls are more dangerous than almost any other breed of dog. Arguing that by sheer coincidence all those pit bulls just happened to have a ---smurfy--- upbringing is absurd. You will never, ever convince people that pit bulls are not more dangerous when you have objective facts that prove otherwise.
Pointing to your well behaved dogs doesn't change anything. That's what is known as anecdotal evidence. If the argument people were making is that all pit bulls are deadly dangerous all the time and want nothing but to eat babies every second of the day, then yeah, you could point to your pit bulls and say, "Nope . . . mine have eaten very few babies, and only on special occasions." But that's not the argument you have to deal with, so that won't work. The argument you have to deal with is that pit bulls attack and kill people much more often than other breeds of dogs. It is an incontrovertible fact. They just do. If you want to be successful you need to deal with that fact sensibly, not insist that it doesn't exist, because the people you are arguing with happen to know that it does, in fact, exist.
Stop pretending that pit bulls are no more dangerous than other kinds of dogs and start pointing out that sports cars are more dangerous than sedans, yet we don't ban sports cars. Swords are more dangerous than knives (all things being equal) but we don't ban swords. Football is more dangerous than Tennis, but we don't ban football. Beer (especially 3.2 beer) is less dangerous than liquor but we don't ban liquor. The mere fact that less dangerous alternatives exist does not automatically justify a ban of the more dangerous item. There are other factors that need to be looked at. How dangerous is it objectively? Is it really a major problem in terms of the number of attacks, or is it just a well reported problem, i.e., are a relatively small number of attacks every year getting blown out of proportion and painting a picture that is far far worse than reality? Even if it turns out that the numbers show that there is a serious problem, is it something that could be dealt with through sensible regulation as opposed to an outright ban that would hurt hundreds or thousands of responsible pit bull owners?
It's not like your side has no good arguments, but you're ignoring them completely in favor of a extreme position that is simply insupportable. It makes you sound like Xiaou2. Even if you have good things to say, your audience is blinded by your lunacy and extremism and refusal to accept the reality of the situation.
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The more I think about it, those #'s have to be bogus.
That percentage is way skewed.
Its a ---smurfette--- to find unbiased dog bite info.
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Most animal bites go unreported anyway. You'd never know how many small bites happen, and compared to a pit bull, almost all bites are small. The info probably comes from ER and Police reports... no one is going to report a chihuaha bite.
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Tommy,
In this subject, no amount of championing on your part based on your single ownership of a Pitt Bull is going to convince anyone to change their stance against these dogs.
As I have said before, my neighbor has a female Pit Bull, and what I am fairly certain now is a male Bull Mastiff/Pit Bull mix - both of which are not tied down and are allowed to just hang out in the neighborhood with their front yard as home base. The pisser is the guy has a huge back yard with a full privacy fence he could keep them in! The male is big as hell, all muscle, mean looking, and very territorial due to the female. He has approached me in an intimidating manner twice now while I push my 8 month old daughter in a stroller. I will be the first to admit the female is cute and friendly, but I wouldn't trust her anywhere near my little girl either. The addition of the male is more than I can bear. We don't have a leash law, and I have talked to our homeowners president - and several other homeowners have apparently done the same after being approached by the growling male. The president is friends with the guy, and will be speaking with him tonight.
It is ---smurfing--- ridiculous that I have to carry a weapon with me while walking to the mailbox (we have grouped boxes)just in case one of those damn dogs decides I "crossed the line". I WILL kill that ---smurfing--- dog if it so much as comes within striking distance while growling at me.
So, Tommy, just because you have the worlds greatest Pitt Bull, does not mean they are a Happy go lucky breed. You are complaining that everyone else is making a blanket statement comdemning the breed, and you're damn right about that in most cases. The thing is, you are also making a blanket statement. How long do you plan on running in a circle like a ---Bad words, bad words, whatcha gonna do? Whatcha gonna do when saint censors you?--- over this subject? Like I said before, the female pit is a beautiful dog and is great with the guys kids. She is a ball of energy and doesn't appear to have the slightest amount of aggression in her. Doesn't matter one bit either- there is the possibility that at some point something will arouse her aggression and she will act on it and I don't plan on her being anywhere near me or my family when and if it happens - plain and simple.
And just so we are clear, if you ever disappear and quit posting, it is a safe assumption that the majority of the forum will assume one of two things:
1. Your dog snapped and bit your face off
2. You were arrested for attempting to steal Eli Manning's jock strap...while he still had it on.
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Jesus . . . no leash law? That's crazy. I didn't know that even existed in residential areas.
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You keep talking about dogs that are not trained. All the people in these cases where a dog bites someone the owner is a casual dog owner and knows nothing about dogs and just have them for fun.
When you train a dog properly there is no Territorial issues or dogs snapping at each other, everything is in harmony when things are done right. These dogs you keep mentioning have serious mental problems, it sounds funny but it's true and it can happen when they don't know who is in control of their life from the owner. I agree the dogs are big and hard to control when they go after a person but it's the owners fault when this happens.
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It is ---smurfing--- ridiculous that I have to carry a weapon with me while walking to the mailbox (we have grouped boxes)just in case one of those damn dogs decides I "crossed the line". I WILL kill that ---smurfing--- dog if it so much as comes within striking distance while growling at me.
What kind of weapon?
So you assume a customer of yours will take the time to train a dog they just got referred to? Unless you gave them informational pamphlets. Did you give them informational pamphlets?
Actually different species of dog will act and react differently no matter how much you want them not to. Centuries of being breed by man has made them behave the way they were required to.
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When you train a dog properly there is no Territorial issues or dogs snapping at each other, everything is in harmony when things are done right.
Your statement is not true. You cannot eliminate territorialism in a dog. You can train them to suppress it but you cannot say "there are no issues". Any male dog, when the female is in heat, will be aggressive in keeping you away from her. How they go about it will vary by breed and individual dog but what you are saying is flat out untrue. You can train behaviour into a dog but you cannot train the dog out of the dog. Frankly, I don't see why anyone would even want to do that.
Even a beagle will have the urge to protect its territory no matter how well trained.
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Uh oh . . . :'( I tried to warn you away from these extreme positions Tommy, and now look what you've done. ;D
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Uh oh . . . :'( I tried to warn you away from these extreme positions Tommy, and now look what you've done. ;D
Hey you said you agree with me on the general fact of this so lets hear some of your fancy lawyer talk. ;D
Get through to them before i sick my pit bull on them. :laugh2:
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I like how some of you like to use the fear of the unknown here and how the dog can just "snap" By saying that it allows all of you to not have to come up with any real reason or facts on these dogs and just take the easy ridiculous way out and just damn the whole breed without having to form any real idea as to why the dog really did what he did.
And I like how people choose to make ridiculous and unsubstantiated statements like "it's the owner, not the dog" ... that shows a profound lack of understanding of animals in general and dogs in particular.
That is not to say that it is the breed and not the owner, but it is clear that there are behaviours and temperments that are specific to breeds (and I have had family members who owned Pit Bulls, including at least one who actually fought in the pits and was rescued by a cousin of mine ... and he was an absolute angel, except for the burglar that he caught ... having said that, there is no way I would ever want that animal around my kids).
Now, i don't know about other dogs
And that is EXACTLY why you are completely unqualified to make any assertions regarding dogs or behaviour. You seem to think that your specific experience to date is tantamount to proof that the breed is sound and safe. I know of at least five owners of pit bulls (knowledge related to breed rescue) that said exactly what you have said ... until their dog attacked (2 attacked people and 3 attacked another dog).
My personal belief is that Pit Bulls are not suitable a suitable breed for the family pet and should be subject to strict regulation.
My dog is a normal everyday dog that you wouldn't think twice about, period, and i take offense at people who want to throw my dog in with the rest.
I have had and raised dogs all of my life and EVERY dog is one that you should think twice (or even three times) about ... to do otherwise is irresponsible and demonstrates a lack of understanding or appreciation for dogs in general.
BTW, this glass business is mine so there is no company i represent..
Certainly not for much longer based on your stellar customer relation skills.
;D
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You keep talking about dogs that are not trained. All the people in these cases where a dog bites someone the owner is a casual dog owner and knows nothing about dogs and just have them for fun.
When you train a dog properly there is no Territorial issues or dogs snapping at each other, everything is in harmony when things are done right. These dogs you keep mentioning have serious mental problems, it sounds funny but it's true and it can happen when they don't know who is in control of their life from the owner. I agree the dogs are big and hard to control when they go after a person but it's the owners fault when this happens.
Yes, we should all assume that every single dog owner in the whole country is an avid dog owner who devotes their life to the most sophisticated and thorough training they have at their disposal. Here is an example of the dog training that most people give their dogs.
"Spot, here is your food bowl"
"Spot, here is your crate"
"Spot, here is where you ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---"
Done, and done.
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Hey you said you agree with me on the general fact of this so lets hear some of your fancy lawyer talk. ;D
Hey . . . all that already exists in the last pit bull thread. You're the one who chose to start a brand new one. Just go back to the last one and plagiarize the stuff I said in there.
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Stop pretending that pit bulls are no more dangerous than other kinds of dogs and start pointing out that sports cars are more dangerous than sedans, yet we don't ban sports cars. Swords are more dangerous than knives (all things being equal) but we don't ban swords. Football is more dangerous than Tennis, but we don't ban football. Beer (especially 3.2 beer) is less dangerous than liquor but we don't ban liquor. The mere fact that less dangerous alternatives exist does not automatically justify a ban of the more dangerous item. There are other factors that need to be looked at. How dangerous is it objectively? Is it really a major problem in terms of the number of attacks, or is it just a well reported problem, i.e., are a relatively small number of attacks every year getting blown out of proportion and painting a picture that is far far worse than reality? Even if it turns out that the numbers show that there is a serious problem, is it something that could be dealt with through sensible regulation as opposed to an outright ban that would hurt hundreds or thousands of responsible pit bull owners?
Anyway, did you not see this like five posts up?
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You keep talking about dogs that are not trained. All the people in these cases where a dog bites someone the owner is a casual dog owner and knows nothing about dogs and just have them for fun.
When you train a dog properly there is no Territorial issues or dogs snapping at each other, everything is in harmony when things are done right. These dogs you keep mentioning have serious mental problems, it sounds funny but it's true and it can happen when they don't know who is in control of their life from the owner. I agree the dogs are big and hard to control when they go after a person but it's the owners fault when this happens.
Yes, we should all assume that every single dog owner in the whole country is an avid dog owner who devotes their life to the most sophisticated and thorough training they have at their disposal. Here is an example of the dog training that most people give their dogs.
"Spot, here is your food bowl"
"Spot, here is your crate"
"Spot, here is where you ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---"
Done, and done.
They NEED to put in the time or they should no be allowed to own a dog, especially a pit bull or other big dogs. When a dog gets out of control the owner is responsible. You gotta take responsibility with these dogs, they are not a toy and just like a child they need direction and need to know what is required of them by you taking charge and leading them, yes by leading.
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When you train a dog properly there is no Territorial issues or dogs snapping at each other, everything is in harmony when things are done right.
Show me a professional trainer who will substantiate that ridiculous statement.
In conversations with several trainers, I have been told that at best you can suppress and (better) redirect the instinctual responses. And that, for certain, there are going to be pairs of dogs that will not get along.
How extensive is your dog-training experience ? Do you do that on the side ?
I'd hate to think that you will have to fall back on that when your glass business goes under ...
;)
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They NEED to put in the time or they should no be allowed to own a dog, especially a pit bull or other big dogs. When a dog gets out of control the owner is responsible. You gotta take responsibility with these dogs, they are not a toy and just like a child they need direction and need to know what is required of them by you taking charge and leading them, yes by leading.
Just so you don't think I'm beating up on you for fun ... I agree 100% with everything that you just said.
;)
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Plus, you have the wackos that treat pits like fuzzy guns.
In that case, you should euthanize the dog AND the owner.
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What kind of weapon?
The other day, I had a small sledge hammer in the car I bought at the harbor freight sidewalk sale. It was handy, so I carried it on our walk. ;D Hell, a stick won't do a damn thing to a monster like that if it comes after you. Having seen video of Pit bull fights, I doubt even a sledge hammer would help me much.
This weekend, I am going to the flea market to get one of those stun batons for my wife to carry. The sound of that thing will probably be enough to make any dog stop and rethink their priorities.
And yes, amazingly our county does not have a leash law. Even if our homeowners association enacted one, it would be completely unenforceable due to the county situation.
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The part that makes me nervous is his lack of understanding of how the alpha male dynamic works. Sooner or later that dog is going to take its shot at becoming alpha male. Maybe it will just growl around a bit and back down... maybe it will rip his ribcage out. Depends on the dog, really. There is also going to be a time when someone or some other dog challenges that dog's spot in the hierarchy - that will be when it is forced to protect its spot as #2. Odds are it will be a visiting dog, maybe a dog passing on the street... but god forbid it be a 5 year old niece that somehow challenges for #2 in the pack. That's the thing that motivates pit bulls more than other dogs. They are extraordinarily reactive to pecking order challenges.
Cheffo, when I was a kid I used to train dogs with two guys who had been doing it 35 years and had been taught by their own father who did it 40. These guys developed a breed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duck_tolling), training methods, and hunting style. Took them decades. Just the concept of what tommy is saying about changing the basic nature of the dog would have gotten him thrown off the property.
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They NEED to put in the time or they should no be allowed to own a dog, especially a pit bull or other big dogs. When a dog gets out of control the owner is responsible. You gotta take responsibility with these dogs, they are not a toy and just like a child they need direction and need to know what is required of them by you taking charge and leading them, yes by leading.
That is true. Unfortunately, they don't which is why lawmakers are being pressured to enact laws banning the ownership of Pit Bulls. So instead of bitching on here, go whine and complain to your fellow Pit Bull owners.
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Cheffo, when I was a kid I used to train dogs
Can you just post a list of what you -haven't- done? It might save bandwidth.
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My brother is a professional dog trainer. He used to train obedience and protection but got bored with it and trains/breeds stock dogs exclusively. He's won many championships in stock dog trialling (think Babe, the sheep pig), including the Utah and Nevada state championships (he actually held those simultaneously at one point). When he raises and trains a dog it regularly sells in the neighborhood of $10k (a couple of guys with a couple of good stock dogs can turn a three-day trip with 6 or 8 guys to gather a herd of cows or sheep off a mountain into a single afternoon of minimal effort). He essentially reiterates exactly what Chad just said.
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I've mentioned this particular thing before. If you come across a copy of this book (http://www.amazon.com/Breed-Apart-Scotias-Tolling-Retriever/dp/155109231X/ref=sr_1_13/105-1966883-7650842?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1193173116&sr=8-13) it talks about the couple of guys in southern NS that are credited with developing that breed and the tolling style it uses. The name used is my great grandfather and I think my great uncle as well but my memory is foggy on the second one. I caught the very tail end of my great uncle training the dogs before his health started to fail. Those guys knew more in their pinky about dog training than most professionals will ever learn.
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Chad when you get mad at someone do you go after them and try to kill them? If you do try to kill someone why is that? If you don't try to kill someone what makes you stop?
I bet the thought of going to jail for the rest of your life makes you stop, it's the consequences that stops you and it's the same with a dog. The dog does not want to have to deal with it's leader having to punish him.
It's a simple matter of leadership here, does your second child try to kill your first child when you hand that kid a cookie or do both children know (from you) that everything is going to be OK and they are safe where they are.
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Well, it's official ... hell is freezing over ... I'm going to agree with tommy and chad in the same thread ... :'(
My last dog was a seriously (!) alpha Siberian Husky ... it took me a LONG time to establish dominance over him and even then he would continually test the boundaries. It was an inate part of his nature and the breed. No fewer than 3 professional trainers (and more than a few breeders) said that it was just the way he was -- he was born to lead a pack and nothing could be done except for me to establish myself as the true leader. They told me that I would always have to be careful of him with dogs and children (and, obviously, I was ... he was an animal).
Every single time that I had trouble on walks was due to another owner not being able to control their dog, particularly the bigger dogs being walked by a 90-pound waif.
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Chad when you get mad at someone do you go after them and try to kill them? If you do try to kill someone why is that? If you don't try to kill someone what makes you stop?
When you try and compare the rational capabilities of a person to that of a dog it makes you look really bad. I mean really, really bad.
Punishment will only deter a dog in most circumstances. There will always be times when the dog doesn't think of it - pecking order challenges and female territorial boundaries, mostly, but sometimes over food as well. Especially if the owner isn't present to actually administer that punishment.
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A dog getting a punishment by it's pack leader is taken far more serious than you telling your kid to go to sleep and he/she tells you to piss off. This is the whole dogs lively hood and he takes it serious and learns from that, easier than a human would.
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When you try and compare the rational capabilities of a person to that of a dog it makes you look really bad. I mean really, really bad.
Chad, why don't you try and see things from tommy's point of view for a change ? :angry:
Maybe his rational capabilities are comparable to his dog's ? ;)
>:D
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When you try and compare the rational capabilities of a person to that of a dog it makes you look really bad. I mean really, really bad.
Chad, why don't you try and see things from tommy's point of view for a change ? :angry:
Maybe his rational capabilities are comparable to his dog's ? ;)
>:D
Where is Canada did you say you live again? >:D
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Where is Canada did you say you live again? >:D
Careful glass boy or I'll get a Pit Bull ...
;D
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You better be ready to act responsible then, it might be a good change for you. ;D
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I remember a leading dutch dog trainer claiming that one of the problems with pittbulls is that they do not really work with the general "alpha male" dog psychology since they are not pack dogs. He claimed that was one of the tings that makes them so unpredictable.
I really don't see the point in owning a pitbull. Why do people insist on owning a "gun that can backfire at random"?
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You better be ready to act responsible then, it might be a good change for you. ;D
Next thing you know, I'll be locking my game consoles up in glass boxes ....
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You could also get one of my patented "pit bull glass box's" where you are definitely safe and you can enjoy your dog just like "normal people"
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so Tommy since you are such a responsible dog owner, do you take the time to bag your dogs crap while walking him or are you one of those doooshes that will just leave it for the neighborhood kids to step in and track in their houses?
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I walk my dog over to peoples house i don't care for and let him ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- his brains out, like your house if it was in the area. :cheers:
I have a nice big yard and what i do with my dogs ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- is not your business.
Is this all you came here to talk about, dog ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---? Don't you have something of more substance to say regarding this or are you really not the type to put much thought into thinking?
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just trying to gauge how much of a responsible owner you are to form an educated opinion... and your response leads me to believe that you are a ---smurfy--- owner and pitts should be destroyed, banned, drowned.... whatever... just left off the face of the earth....
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If you don't like the response you get to your questions maybe you should take some time next time and rephrase your question in a better manor.
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the response is the exact response I expected from a tool such as yourself... your post just verified it....
thanks
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Do your ask your wife "what god awful dinner are you preparing on this foul day, ---smurfette---" or do you say "what are you making for dinner tonight , dear"?
That is a good and bad example of two questions and how to ask them, you decide what one is better.
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I don't ask my wife what's for dinner.... I ask her where the hell is my dinner, but then again she usually has ready when I get home....
guess I trained her real good, didn't I....
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Depends. Does she poop in the kitchen?
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no, she's house broke....
So Tommy, how do you ask your wife what's for dinner? or do you just swat her on the nose with a rolled up paper?
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I treat her with love and respect and she does me. Whoever trained you and your wife is leading you down a horrible path of biting out of anger and confusion.
See, i can still stay on topic while off topic. ;D
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I treat her with love and respect and she does me.
WTF it marriage isn't a damn fairy tale.... :blah: that has to be the gheyest thing I ever read
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You poor poor guy. You never been happy before, have you?
If you're not living that life with your lover at some degree you need to move on and find a better life with someone else, don't waste your time there being unhappy.
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I was at a family get together one time, and one of my wife's distant cousins had a ---meecrob--- husband who was shooting off at the mouth at how awesome of a dog trainer he was. Real run of the mill, ---uvula--- stuff I tell ya. Well, my sister in law told the guy she had a completely deaf, partially blind sheep dog that ran rampant over the other dog and her puppies. She asked him if he could help that dog. He talked his big game, then she said "well he's just down the street, I'll go get him." At this point, I was ready to bust out laughing. She went and got the dog, and just as he said, he had that damn dog taking visual commands, sitting, staying, coming on command etc, all without a single food treat.
Off topic a bit, but thought it was a neat story.
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Yeah it's amazing how much you can train dogs. If only all small children were tought to be dog trainers at birth. Maybe then they wouldn't get mauled by a dog in a "bad mood".
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A turtle was happily swimming along a river when a scorpion hailed it from the shore.
"Dear friend turtle!" called the scorpion. "Please let me climb upon your back and swim me to the other side of the river!"
"No," replied the turtle, "for if I do, you shall sting me, and I shall die."
"Nonsense!" replied the scorpion. "If I kill you in the middle of the river, you shall sink, and I shall drown and die with you."
The turtle thought this over, and saw the truth of the scorpion's statement. He let it upon his back and began swimming towards the other side of the river. Halfway across, he felt a sharp pain in the back of his neck.
"Why have you stung me?!" cried the turtle as his body began to stiffen. "Now you shall die as well!"
"Because it is in my nature," replied the scorpion as the turtle sank beneath the waters.
FOOD FOR THOUGHT!!!!
A young girl was trudging along a mountain path, trying to reach her grandmother's house. It was bitter cold, and the wind cut like a knife. When she was within sight of her destination, she heard a rustle at her feet.
Looking down, she saw a snake. Before she could move, the snake spoke to her. He said, "I am about to die. It is too cold for me up here, and I am freezing. There is no food in these mountains, and I am starving. Please put me under your coat and take me with you."
"No," replied the girl. "I know your kind. You are a rattlesnake. If I pick you up, you will bite me, and your bite is poisonous."
"No, no," said the snake. "If you help me, you will be my best friend. I will treat you differently."
The little girl sat down on a rock for a moment to rest and think things over. She looked at the beautiful markings on the snake and had to admit that it was the most beautiful snake she had ever seen.
Suddenly, she said, "I believe you. I will save you. All living things deserve to be treated with kindness."
The little girl reached over, put the snake gently under her coat and proceeded toward her grandmother's house.
Within a moment, she felt a sharp pain in her side. The snake had bitten her.
"How could you do this to me?" she cried. "You promised that you would not bite me, and I trusted you!"
"You knew what I was when you picked me up," hissed the snake as he slithered away.
-
A turtle was happily swimming along a river when a scorpion hailed it from the shore.
"Dear friend turtle!" called the scorpion. "Please let me climb upon your back and swim me to the other side of the river!"
"No," replied the turtle, "for if I do, you shall sting me, and I shall die."
"Nonsense!" replied the scorpion. "If I kill you in the middle of the river, you shall sink, and I shall drown and die with you."
The turtle thought this over, and saw the truth of the scorpion's statement. He let it upon his back and began swimming towards the other side of the river. Halfway across, he felt a sharp pain in the back of his neck.
"Why have you stung me?!" cried the turtle as his body began to stiffen. "Now you shall die as well!"
"Because it is in my nature," replied the scorpion as the turtle sank beneath the waters.
FOOD FOR THOUGHT!!!!
A young girl was trudging along a mountain path, trying to reach her grandmother's house. It was bitter cold, and the wind cut like a knife. When she was within sight of her destination, she heard a rustle at her feet.
Looking down, she saw a snake. Before she could move, the snake spoke to her. He said, "I am about to die. It is too cold for me up here, and I am freezing. There is no food in these mountains, and I am starving. Please put me under your coat and take me with you."
"No," replied the girl. "I know your kind. You are a rattlesnake. If I pick you up, you will bite me, and your bite is poisonous."
"No, no," said the snake. "If you help me, you will be my best friend. I will treat you differently."
The little girl sat down on a rock for a moment to rest and think things over. She looked at the beautiful markings on the snake and had to admit that it was the most beautiful snake she had ever seen.
Suddenly, she said, "I believe you. I will save you. All living things deserve to be treated with kindness."
The little girl reached over, put the snake gently under her coat and proceeded toward her grandmother's house.
Within a moment, she felt a sharp pain in her side. The snake had bitten her.
"How could you do this to me?" she cried. "You promised that you would not bite me, and I trusted you!"
"You knew what I was when you picked me up," hissed the snake as he slithered away.
I find it hard to believe that you are a real person who is posting that. ::)
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A turtle was happily swimming along a river when a scorpion hailed it from the shore.
"Dear friend turtle!" called the scorpion. "Please let me climb upon your back and swim me to the other side of the river!"
"No," replied the turtle, "for if I do, you shall sting me, and I shall die."
"Nonsense!" replied the scorpion. "If I kill you in the middle of the river, you shall sink, and I shall drown and die with you."
The turtle thought this over, and saw the truth of the scorpion's statement. He let it upon his back and began swimming towards the other side of the river. Halfway across, he felt a sharp pain in the back of his neck.
"Why have you stung me?!" cried the turtle as his body began to stiffen. "Now you shall die as well!"
"Because it is in my nature," replied the scorpion as the turtle sank beneath the waters.
FOOD FOR THOUGHT!!!!
A young girl was trudging along a mountain path, trying to reach her grandmother's house. It was bitter cold, and the wind cut like a knife. When she was within sight of her destination, she heard a rustle at her feet.
Looking down, she saw a snake. Before she could move, the snake spoke to her. He said, "I am about to die. It is too cold for me up here, and I am freezing. There is no food in these mountains, and I am starving. Please put me under your coat and take me with you."
"No," replied the girl. "I know your kind. You are a rattlesnake. If I pick you up, you will bite me, and your bite is poisonous."
"No, no," said the snake. "If you help me, you will be my best friend. I will treat you differently."
The little girl sat down on a rock for a moment to rest and think things over. She looked at the beautiful markings on the snake and had to admit that it was the most beautiful snake she had ever seen.
Suddenly, she said, "I believe you. I will save you. All living things deserve to be treated with kindness."
The little girl reached over, put the snake gently under her coat and proceeded toward her grandmother's house.
Within a moment, she felt a sharp pain in her side. The snake had bitten her.
"How could you do this to me?" she cried. "You promised that you would not bite me, and I trusted you!"
"You knew what I was when you picked me up," hissed the snake as he slithered away.
A man was walking thru a manufacturing plant when he heard a crash, then a cry for help. He rushed to the scene to see none other than Superman standing near a machine. Superman looked at the man and said " Sir, my cape is stuck in this machine. I am about to be pulled in and mangled. Not even I, superman, can survive such a horrible fate." The man thought it over for a few seconds, then ran over and started tugging on the cape to get it loose from the mechanism. After being unsuccessful, the man assessed the machine. He determined how it worked and was able to move a few levers and superman was freed! After dusting himself off, Superman thanked the man, then proceeded to melt the man's nuts off with his heat vision. As he lay moaning on the ground, the man asked why Superman did that.
Superman replied " You've heard the song, ---smurfette---. You NEVER pull on Superman's cape".
;D
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Isn't that story supposed to be a frog? A scorpion could sting a turtle's shell all day long and the turtle would be perfectly fine, I would think . . .
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Isn't that story supposed to be a frog? A scorpion could sting a turtle's shell all day long and the turtle would be perfectly fine, I would think . . .
Stung him in the neck...
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"The Turtle Moves"
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I knew I had heard that story with a frog. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Scorpion_and_the_Frog) No idea which is the original, though.
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They NEED to put in the time or they should no be allowed to own a dog, especially a pit bull or other big dogs.
Oopsies! :laugh2:
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Dogs are a lot more predictable than people.
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Dogs are a lot more predictable than people.
and?
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Dogs are a lot more predictable than people.
and?
and so we should ban people too. ;D
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Oi Lioke Turtles....
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My apologies Saint. :(
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No worries :)
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I hate it when I miss the good stuff...
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It's all good stuff. Stop logging off.
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It's all good stuff. Stop logging off.
Oh, and while your at it, click a few advertiser links. Saint needs a couple more drywall screws for his gameroom.
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It's all good stuff. Stop logging off.
Oh, and while your at it, click a few advertiser links. Saint needs a couple more drywall screws for his gameroom.
I thought he gets paid for just having the ads. Saint shed some light on this please.
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http://www.ksat.com/news/14413827/detail.html
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http://www.ksat.com/news/14413827/detail.html
People shouldnt be allowed to have a pet (any pet including children) if they dont take care of them as they should.
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Pitbulls aren't pets. If a person can't train a Pitbull to properly bite off the head of another Pitbull they shouldn't be allowed to own them.
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Pitbulls aren't pets. If a person can't train a Pitbull to properly bite off the head of another Pitbull they shouldn't be allowed to own them.
That sounds like something a dog fighter would say. It all makes sense now.
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Did tommy get banned from this thread or something?
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hmmm, a family's 'friendly' pit bull bites baby...
article (http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/baltimore_city/bal-md.ci.pitbull23oct23,0,7163330.story?coll=bal_tab01_layout)
Interesting quote from the above article:
"I was always one that said pits are fine and they're only mean if you train them to be that way," Garrison said. "This thing made a liar out of me."
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From the article:
"I was always one that said pits are fine and they're only mean if you train them to be that way," Garrison said. "This thing made a liar out of me."
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Did tommy get banned from this thread or something?
No. We think he was eaten by pit bulls.
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And apparently, based on Mission's avatar...they pissed a LOT of blood afterward. There must have been something bad in that Tommy sandwich.
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Did tommy get banned from this thread or something?
No. We think he was eaten by pit bulls.
Or the other way around. Dun Dun Dun.
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OK. These damn dogs are just BEGGING to be killed.
Pit bulls kill miniature horse given to cancer-stricken child
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/102507dntexhorsekilled.1a103aedb.html
Now that's just BAD marketing right there. Pit Bulls need to hire some better advertising people. Whatever their new campaign is, they'd better make it REALLY HAPPY!
(http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/4531/chuck3pitbullhh7.jpg)
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Thanks for not sending this thread to post hell, saint. Even though i may get a bit out of control and take thing too serious i think some of my ideas and posts were worth saving on the subject of pit bulls and how many of us feel about them, wrong or right.
Hopefully people can just keep their minds open and not always think they know it all, including me. :cheers:
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Cheers :)
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Did tommy get banned from this thread or something?
I'm not banned. I think i said all i can to convice the people who think pit bulls are all horrible nasty dog and nothing will ever change your minds. I'm even fine with that. I'd be a fool to not agree with people who don't want their family near ANYTHING that has a slight possibility of hurting anyone in any family.
My last word on this is after bringing up my pit bull as best i can and after 5 years have never, ever had to even think about this dog doing anything that would ever hurt me or anyone this dog comes in contact with and not so much as growled or shown any negative aggressive act, EVER, as so many of the stories I've heard about these dogs leads me to believe that they are killer dogs. Either I am the greatest dog trainer/behaviour fixer that ever lived, or i somehow got one of the greatest dogs ever born by some all powerfull force of nature, or, when you treat these dogs with kindness and care and give them everything they need including food, shelter, stability, leadership and many other things these dogs can be great to have around.
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I'm curious to hear Saints take on pit bulls if he cares to respond as well.
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I think pitbulls have been bred to be aggressive and don't belong anywhere near children or the public. :)
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I think a lot of the problem is you never see one of those pretty pink bows on a Pitbull.
It looks down, sees a studded collar and feels forced into savagely mauling children and the elderly.
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after bringing up my pit bull as best i can and after 5 years have never, ever had to even think about this dog doing anything that would ever hurt me or anyone this dog comes in contact with
you know what "our" problem is? That's almost the exact same thing all owners of pitbulls say when questioned by the police after their pitbull has just mauled someone.
Pitbulls are high risk dogs and an accident can never be prevented entirely. Maybe when you are around it will always behave, but when a kid startles it while the dog is in a bad mood, there is always a chance it will attack. This might go fine for years (maybe even it's entire life), but it still puts others at risk. Some kid in the future might be maimed for ever. Why? For what?
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hmmm, a family's 'friendly' pit bull bites baby...
article (http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/baltimore_city/bal-md.ci.pitbull23oct23,0,7163330.story?coll=bal_tab01_layout)
Interesting quote from the above article:
"I was always one that said pits are fine and they're only mean if you train them to be that way," Garrison said. "This thing made a liar out of me."
The scary thing about that story is the fact that the guy was an avid pit fan, having had 4 previous pits. Yet when the dog snapped he was powerless to control it, eventually having to sneak out the door after being mauled himself, and the cops come in later and taser the animal into submission. Any other dog breed would have whimpered and quit after a swift boot to the head. In that dog, once the switch was thrown, there was no going back. THAT is the scariest thing about pits.
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once the switch was thrown, there was no going back. THAT is the scariest thing about pits.
The silicon chip inside her head gets switched to overload...
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This is an older article, but very relevant....
http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2004/04/11/news/californian/23_29_184_10_04.txt
Excerpt from the above article:
An official with the Humane Society of the United States said Friday that breeds are selectively bred to accentuate specific characteristics. In the case of some retrievers, for example, the dogs were bred over the years to leap into the water at a moment's notice, retrieve downed birds and carry them softly in their mouths back to hunters.
Pit bulls, however, were bred to fight other dogs in closed environments such as pits or arenas, said Eric Sakach, director of the West Coast regional office of the Humane Society of the United States.
"They were selectively bred to cause maximum damage, which includes grabbing, holding and shaking, which causes tearing," Sakach said.
Breeders also gradually eliminated from the animals some of the typical signals of coming aggression, like barking, growling or raising the hair on the back of their necks, he added.
"These animals offer little or no indication that an attack is imminent," he said.
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you know what "our" problem is? That's almost the exact same thing all owners of pitbulls say when questioned by the police after their pitbull has just mauled someone.
That's not evidence or even worth repeating. Who said that? How do you know all the circumstances are the same and how do you know the dog was trained? The dog could have been acting nice at one point and not have been trained, then was said to have thought to have been a "nice" dog that snapped. It's not credable. It's all worthless information not heard first hand and not from a person who knows anything about anything. No facts, no background, just what went on at that point in time and that's not enough to prove anything.
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It's more evidence than your claim that *your* pitbul is never going to maul someone. Just read any newsarticle about a dog maiming a person where the owner is interviewed and you will see the "my dog was the sweetest ever" type response.
But sure, if you want some facts:
Dog attack deaths and maimings, U.S. & Canada September 1982 to November 13, 2006 (http://www.dogbitelaw.com/Dog%20Attacks%201982%20to%202006%20Clifton.pdf)
Pit bulls and their mixes are responsible for 1182 (54%) of attacks that were included in the study, 521 (46%) of the attacks upon children, 410 (62%) of the attacks upon adults, 110 (42%) of the deaths, and 636 (48%) of the maimings. In more than two-thirds of the cases included in the study, the life-threatening or fatal attack was apparently the first known dangerous behavior by the animal in question. The next most dangerous dog is the Rottweiler with about a 20% share of all the dog attacks. Indeed all dogs can be dangerous. Other breeds of dogs are also involved in attacks, but all of them together are only responsible for less than 30% of all attacks.
In other words, Pit bulls (and Rottweilers) are disproportionally dangerous and usually show no sign of being aggressive before their damaging attack.
Of the breeds most often involved in incidents of sufficient severity to be listed, pit bull terriers are noteworthy for attacking adults almost as frequently as children. This is a very rare pattern: children are normally at greatest risk from dogbite because they play with dogs more often, have less experience in reading dog behavior, are more likely to engage in activity that alarms or stimulates a dog, and are less able to defend themselves when a dog becomes aggressive. Pit bulls seem to differ behaviorally from other dogs in having far less inhibition about attacking people who are larger than they are. They are also notorious for attacking seemingly without warning, a tendency exacerbated by the custom of docking pit bulls' tails so that warning signals are not easily recognized. Thus the adult victim of a pit bull attack may have had little or no opportunity to read the warning signals that would avert an attack from any other dog.
The traditional approach to dangerous dog legislation is to allow "one free bite," at which point the owner is warned. On second bite, the dog is killed. The traditional approach, however, patently does not apply in addressing the threats from pit bull terriers, Rottweilers, and wolf hybrids. In more than two-thirds of the cases I have logged, the life-threatening or fatal attack was apparently the first known dangerous behavior by the animal in question. Children and elderly people were almost always the victims.
Any law strong enough and directed enough to prevent the majority of life-threatening dog attacks must discriminate heavily against pit bulls, Rottweilers, wolf hybrids, and perhaps Akitas and chows, who are not common breeds but do seem to be involved in disproportionate numbers of life-threatening attacks. Such discrimination will never be popular with the owners of these breeds, especially those who believe their dogs are neither dangerous nor likely to turn dangerous without strong provocation. Neither will breed discrimination ever be acceptable to those who hold out for an interpretation of animal rights philosophy which holds that all breeds are created equal. One might hope that educating the public against the acquisition of dangerous dogs would help; but the very traits that make certain breeds dangerous also appeal to a certain class of dog owner. Thus publicizing their potentially hazardous nature has tended to increase these breeds' popularity.
The humane community does not try to encourage the adoption of pumas in the same manner that we encourage the adoption of felis catus, because even though a puma can also be box-trained and otherwise exhibits much the same indoor behavior, it is clearly understood that accidents with a puma are frequently fatal.
For the same reason, it is sheer foolishness to encourage people to regard pit bull terriers and Rottweilers as just dogs like any other, no matter how much they may behave like other dogs under ordinary circumstances.
Temperament is not the issue, nor is it even relevant. What is relevant is actuarial risk. If almost any other dog has a bad moment, someone may get bitten, but will not be maimed for life or killed, and the actuarial risk is accordingly reasonable. If a pit bull terrier or a Rottweiler has a bad moment, often someone is maimed or killed--and that has now created off-the-chart actuarial risk, for which the dogs as well as their victims are paying the price.
Pit bulls and Rottweilers are accordingly dogs who not only must be handled with special precautions, but also must be regulated with special requirements appropriate to the risk they may pose to the public and other animals, if they are to be kept at all.
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you know what "our" problem is? That's almost the exact same thing all owners of pitbulls say when questioned by the police after their pitbull has just mauled someone.
That's not evidence or even worth repeating. Who said that? How do you know all the circumstances are the same and how do you know the dog was trained? The dog could have been acting nice at one point and not have been trained, then was said to have thought to have been a "nice" dog that snapped. It's not credable. It's all worthless information not heard first hand and not from a person who knows anything about anything. No facts, no background, just what went on at that point in time and that's not enough to prove anything.
That is exactly what the detective in this case said:
"This was a responsible owner. These animals never had any history of any type of aggression," said Animal Crimes Detective Annie Henderson.
"They were house pets, and they literally slept with her when he wasn't home. She would take them out and put them in their pen and walk them and stuff," he said.
Middleburg Woman Killed By Her Pit Bulls
http://www.news4jax.com/news/14250768/detail.html
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No facts, no background, just what went on at that point in time and that's not enough to prove anything.
Tommy, what did I tell you? You cannot win the facts argument. The facts aren't on your side. Pit bulls are more dangerous than other types of dogs. Deep down you know this is true. In fact, it's why you like them. It's why, when you want to tell someone how to protect their house, you tell them to get a pit bull.
Regardless, though, you can't win the facts argument. Stop wasting your time. The only chance you have is the policy argument.
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Shmokes, try making a case for what you believe in instead of telling me to give up on what i believe, you say you agree with me then lets hear what you got. Make a case for pit bulls and stop laying down for the majority here that have the wrong idea about these dogs. You might even learn something that could help you on your way towards your goal if you can present a decent enough case.
I challenge shmokes to pretend this is his first case and i want to see what he has learned thus far and how you would go about making a jury or board members here see things your way.
Start with an opening statement. I'm sure many people here would read what you have to say and consider you more credible than i come across at times.
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Uh, what thread have you been reading?
How does:
(a) pit bulls are more dangerous then other dogs; however
(b) banning something must always be done with caution
somehow equate to "pit bulls are snuggly-wuggly-floofy-bears that just love children so much they want to eat them"? ???
We ban people from having their own fireworks factory without the proper licensing and auditing even though we (in many places) let them buy and set-off other people's fireworks. Same principle here.
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I'm sure many people here would read what you have to say and consider you more credible than i come across at times.
This one just twists me ...
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I am not going to bother wasting my time trying to convince anyone of anything...but to say a specific breed of dog is "bad" is like saying a specific race of human is "bad". Complete and utter ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow--- based on fears planted by (in this case) the media.
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We don't as a rule breed people for certain characteristics. We do dogs. Any human, with proper training, could perform various physical tasks such as weight-lifting, martial arts, whatever. As a species we are all by and large similarly capable. Dogs are a result of selective breeding however. They've been bred for tasks for generations and generations. Huskies pull dog sleds. Chihuahuas and poodles would do poorly in that task. Some dogs were bred for physical attributes, some mental attributes (guarding, shepherding, tracking).
Is there anyone who disagrees with that? That specific dog breeds were bred for specific attributes?
(If you disagree with that quit reading now because I'm afraid we won't have anything to discuss. Good luck with your version of reality)
Based on the belief that attributes are bred into a breed, why is it hard to believe that a breed was bred to be aggressive fighters?
American Pit Bull Registry - http://www.pitbullregistry.com/Pit%20Bull%20History.htm
PitBull411.com - http://www.pitbull411.com/history.html
So I'm sure that any particular member of a breed could be carefully trained for certain behaviors or to stifle behaviors, but as a breed they were designed to be aggressive attackers, and hence people's concerns about them being near the public and children seems valid to me. Not sure why this is a debatable item.
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I challenge shmokes to . . .
There's two problems with that challenge. One, I already argued as much in your previous pit bull thread, going to far as laying out in detail a pragmatic solution that would mitigate the pit bull problems without banning the dogs altogether. As I've already said, you can feel free to plagiarize from that thread all you want. But that's the best you're gonna get, really, cos I mostly just don't give a ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---. I don't even like dogs. I think they're dumb and needy. I prefer cats. And even if I was going to get a dog, I've got a 1-year old little girl -- I sure as hell ain't getting a pit bull.
My knee-jerk reaction to a ban on pit bulls is to think that we've got irresponsible legislators who are legislating for the sake of legislating, solving problems with a sledge hammer that could have been taken care of with a screwdriver. I don't like to see restrictions on peoples' behavior that go beyond what is absolutely necessary. But I have neither the time, nor inclination (to quote a favorite movie) to make a go at some kind of eloquent essay on the virtues of pit bulls. I don't think they're virtuous. Plenty of dogs are smarter, prettier, and a helluva lot less volatile. I think that the majority of people who buy pit bulls are ---uvulas---. I don't mean that they are ---uvulas--- for buying the pit bull, but rather, pit bulls seem to appeal to people who are already ---uvulas---. Why is that? Why do redneck pieces of ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- love to own pit bulls? Who knows. Interpret it however you like.
My support for your side has nothing to do with liking pit bulls, but rather liking responsible policy and legislation.
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Huskies pull dog sleds. Chihuahuas and poodles would do poorly in that task.
But you gotta admit they'd look pretty effing funny trying...
Heres the solution to the pit problem:
The dog gets 1 free pass. Thats not 1 free pass to bite someone - thats one free pass (off leash/out of yard).
Strike 2 - dog gets put down. No appeal.
A few folks will still get bitten, but the majority of owners will be a lot more vigilant.
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We don't as a rule breed people for certain characteristics.
At least, not intentionally....
http://in.news.yahoo.com/071027/139/6mhu2.html
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I don't have the patience to read through all the gobble-d-gook in this thread nor will I post my opinion on pit-bulls and other dogs that are labeled as dangerous. What I will say though is:
If anyone came in to my residence and tried to entice an argument out of me (which it is obviously what you're doing) I would tell them to get the fark out and then proceed to call their supervisor.
First rule of any business:
The customer is your boss. Without them, you don't have a job.
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In Tommy's case you would, apparently, be talking to him when you called. But it doesn't change the dynamics. No question it's bad bad business.
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I am not going to bother wasting my time trying to convince anyone of anything...but to say a specific breed of dog is "bad" is like saying a specific race of human is "bad". Complete and utter ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow--- based on fears planted by (in this case) the media.
The thing is that breeds of dogs actually do have completely different characteristics. With humans practically only the color of the skin is different. If you would compare all black haired poodles with all white haired poodle I guess you would also find identical behavior and skill set.
On the other hand, are you seriously going to claim that a Beagle and a Pitbull are almost indistinguishable in behavior and skill set? Pitbulls have the trait to have a devastating bite (and to hold that bite when they attack) bred into them. That makes them a dangerous breed as a whole.
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(http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/loldog-funny-pictures-innocent-dog.jpg)
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The pic would be better if there was a severed head or something next to the dog
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In 1986 I was walking my Old English Sheepdog (actually I was roller-skating and he was walking) around the block. From across the street, a pit bull broke loose from where it was tied up to the fence. The chain that was tied around it's neck was ripped in two. Neither me or my dog saw it coming until it was about 6 or 7 feet away. My dog was even on the side of me opposite where the pit bull was across the street. I quickly put my dog in between us and it attacked my dog's throat. The owner ran over and pried his dog's mouth open while getting his hands chewed up at the same time.
My dog had some surgery and lived several more years.
I've passed by thousands of other dogs. The only one that ever attacked, unprovoked nonetheless, was a pit.
I think they all need to go to hell. If one ever hurt anyone in my family the owner would wish they never had one in the first place.
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While this has nothing to do with the topic at hand, I always found this dog bite video pretty funny. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hY9EKHAqUUI
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The pic would be better if there was a severed head or something next to the dog
agreed, but I saw that pic on the net and knew it belonged in this thread...
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While this has nothing to do with the topic at hand, I always found this dog bite video pretty funny. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hY9EKHAqUUI
Lol that dog has some genital issues.
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While this has nothing to do with the topic at hand, I always found this dog bite video pretty funny. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hY9EKHAqUUI
Is that lady for real?!?
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While this has nothing to do with the topic at hand, I always found this dog bite video pretty funny. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hY9EKHAqUUI
Is that lady for real?!?
Um.....yeah....that' dog's got some issues..... :o
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Put this in your dog's pipe and smoke him.
http://www.ksat.com/news/14413827/detail.html
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Put this in your dog's pipe and smoke him.
http://www.ksat.com/news/14413827/detail.html
I believe that is the third time this story has been posted in this thead :-\
It is a pretty f'd up story though.
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Now here are some dogs that should turn against their owners: http://kotaku.com/gaming/clip/pac+man-pugs-317189.php
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Let this thread die already, people. I can't stand looking at it anymore. :angry:
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Well if that's what you really want just teach your dogs to type. ;D
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Hey!
Has anybody seen this?
http://www.ksat.com/news/14413827/detail.html
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Let this thread die already, people. I can't stand looking at it anymore. :angry:
hey Tommy have you seen this thread?
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I've been reading on this guys website the last day or two:
http://www.leerburg.com/
He is a police dog trainer and has a very "in your face" way of answering questions.
His basic philosophy on dogs is this:
They are animals- not humans. Their social characteristics are caused by their genes, and by their nature as dogs. A "bad genes dog" cannot be fixed, no matter how much training is attempted. You can basically tell if a dog will grow to be aggressive by the way it acts as a puppy. Dogs do not grow out of their genes. And lastly: any and every dog attack is the fault of the owner.
I've emailed the guy on my pitt bull situation to see what he recommends.
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Let this thread die already, people. I can't stand looking at it anymore. :angry:
We've already seen what happens when we let pit bull threads die. All we're doing here is avoiding a third pit bull thread.
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We've already seen what happens when we let pit bull threads die. All we're doing here is avoiding a third fourth pit bull thread.
fixt
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I've been reading on this guys website the last day or two:
http://www.leerburg.com/
He is a police dog trainer and has a very "in your face" way of answering questions.
His basic philosophy on dogs is this:
They are animals- not humans. Their social characteristics are caused by their genes, and by their nature as dogs. A "bad genes dog" cannot be fixed, no matter how much training is attempted. You can basically tell if a dog will grow to be aggressive by the way it acts as a puppy. Dogs do not grow out of their genes. And lastly: any and every dog attack is the fault of the owner.
I've emailed the guy on my pitt bull situation to see what he recommends.
here is the email I sent him:
Hello,
I have been reading your site about dog behavior, but have a slightly different question being that I am not the owner of the dogs in question. My neighbor has a female Pitt about 8 months old, and a male Bull Mastiff of unknown age. He leaves them completely unchecked and unleashed, and they are taking over the neighborhood. Our county does not have a leash law, so I am basically helpless to get rid of them by legal means. The problem is that they are developing territorial aggression and my wife is fearful of taking our young daughter for walks, and it is almost to the point of her not even going out of the house. I have dealt with a previous aggressive dog of mixed breed in the neighborhood and was eventually able to gain his trust (he eventually bit a woman and was removed). Due to the breed of these dogs though, I am not sure how to approach them in a way that I can safely assert dominance over them. The last thing I want is to round on them and get mauled. I have
noticed that they tend to get brave if I ignore them and keep walking with my back to them. This definitely has me worried after reading your articles. I am considering buying a shock baton for my wife to carry during walks. I could care less if my neighbor sees me pop his dog with high voltage, but once again I have no clue how these dogs, being a pit bull variety, will react to the stimuli - maybe they will "attack first" the next time around. I would appreciate any advice you could give me.
Thank you,
And here is the response I got. I am guessing he is recommending I NOT try to work with the dogs. ;)
Lobby your local government on leash laws. When the dogs are loose send the Mayor - Chief of Police, District Attorney certified letters telling them you fear for your families lives. Tell them if something happens you will not only sue them but you will get the TV and newpaper media into this.
And Tommy, there is a dog breed he feels is worse than your beloved pitts - wolf hybrids. ;)
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I emailed the guy back to try to get a little more info from him. I would like to point out that this is an EXPERT in dog training and and behavior. He has seen it and done it all, and this boils down to his opinion of pit bulls.
My reply:
Thank you for the response. I have complained multiple times to our Sub-divison president, and casually talked to the owner. I just get the usual canned response from owners of Pit's "they are harmless - look at how they play with MY kid." They are oblivious to the way the dogs act towards other people. I am currently waiting on the next meeting of the county commission to adress my concerns. In the mean time, do you have any advice on how I could advise neighbors (and myself and family) about how to approach/deal with these breed of dogs? With any other dog I would present myself, wait for a
response, and possibly let the dog smell me.
His response:
You approach them when they are loose with a shot gun and a lawyer. Have your lawyer write these people a letter warning them. If you find out where they have their home loan or better yet their insurance you send them a certified letter warning them. They will lose their home owners
insurance if they don't control their dogs. Then they sell and move.
Kind Regards,
Ed Frawley
President Leerburg Ent Inc.
That is the opinion of Pit Bulls from an expert. Take from it what you will. I am anxiously awaiting animal control to show up in my neighborhood today to pick them up. I got a call not a little while ago from my wife that those bastard dogs came after her on OUR property. Luckily, she thought quickly and picked up the hose and sprayed the hell out of them.
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I love animals, but if a neighbors pit bull came in my yard and acted aggressively towards my wife, my neighbor would have a dead dog.
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I love animals, but if a neighbors pit bull came in my yard and acted aggressively towards my wife, my neighbor would have a dead dog.
No kidding. I'd be grabbing my gun in a heartbeat.
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I love animals, but if a neighbors pit bull came in my yard and acted aggressively towards my wife, my neighbor would have a dead dog.
I've already been on the phone with the sheriff's department. They wouldn't even talk to me about it. They said "you have to talk to animal control". I told the lady I already talked to animal control, but there wasn't a guarantee they would show up any time soon, and that I wanted to know what my legal options/legal implications were in this county if I killed those damn dogs next time they came on my property. I was treated to an abrupt silence, which was me being transferred to animal control. :angry: I've been told by neighbors that the sheriffs department is damn worthless around here, but now I know first hand.
I've ---smurfing--- had it, and I am setting my loaded rifle right inside the garage door as soon as I get home tonight if animal control hasn't showed up by then.
And as a side note, my boss came in this morning saying that his neighbors pit bull came into his yard last night and mauled his large black lab. All he could find quick was a 22 rifle. He shot a warning shot into the ground next to the dogs and it didn't effect the pit at all, but scared the ---Cleveland steamer--- out of his own dog which got up and drug the pit hanging from its neck across the yard (like I said, BIG lab). Then he laid the 22 barell across the pits neck and pulled the trigger. That one finally did the trick to get the dog to let go. I told him he's damn lucky that pit didn't ditch the dog and attack him.
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Speaking of animals attacking pets, I think the fires have pushed the wildlife much closer to the residental area because one of my Dads clients golden retriever was eaten by a mountain lion. All they found was a bunch of blood and a few body parts, they figure the coyotes cleaned up most of the mess. The next day the mountain lion was seen jumping into a neighbors yard, but everyones keeping their dogs inside for the time being. This may be normal in some parts of the country, but this is a suburb of Los Angeles composed of tract housing, so mountain lion attacks are pretty rare.
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And as a side note, my boss came in this morning saying that his neighbors pit bull came into his yard last night and mauled his large black lab. All he could find quick was a 22 rifle. He shot a warning shot into the ground next to the dogs and it didn't effect the pit at all, but scared the ---Cleveland steamer--- out of his own dog which got up and drug the pit hanging from its neck across the yard (like I said, BIG lab). Then he laid the 22 barell across the pits neck and pulled the trigger. That one finally did the trick to get the dog to let go. I told him he's damn lucky that pit didn't ditch the dog and attack him.
I saw a video of a police office shooting a pit (hanging on it's owners arm) at least 5 times with a 9mm police pistol and it still did not let go.
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And as a side note, my boss came in this morning saying that his neighbors pit bull came into his yard last night and mauled his large black lab. All he could find quick was a 22 rifle. He shot a warning shot into the ground next to the dogs and it didn't effect the pit at all, but scared the ---Cleveland steamer--- out of his own dog which got up and drug the pit hanging from its neck across the yard (like I said, BIG lab). Then he laid the 22 barell across the pits neck and pulled the trigger. That one finally did the trick to get the dog to let go. I told him he's damn lucky that pit didn't ditch the dog and attack him.
I saw a video of a police office shooting a pit (hanging on it's owners arm) at least 5 times with a 9mm police pistol and it still did not let go.
Just to clarify, he didn't shoot the pit, he just laid the barrel on him and it burned the dog when the gun went off.
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Yeah I got that, but I meant that the pit didn't even budge when it actually got shot. Let alone when you give it a warning shot.
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While this has nothing to do with the topic at hand, I always found this dog bite video pretty funny. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hY9EKHAqUUI
Haven't been following that thread... but WTF, how does that dog have such regular access to her genitals? I'm trying here really hard not to bust out laughing.
Lobby your local government on leash laws. When the dogs are loose send the Mayor - Chief of Police, District Attorney certified letters telling them you fear for your families lives. Tell them if something happens you will not only sue them but you will get the TV and newpaper media into this.
That's what I told you, too, bro... not that it will do you much good when the mastiff goes after your wife because she smells a little too much like the female pit that week (that's not an insult - dogs can tell when a woman is menstruating).
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In the case of some retrievers, for example, the dogs were bred over the years to leap into the water at a moment's notice, retrieve downed birds and carry them softly in their mouths back to hunters.
Yep... and in the case of a great toller, they'll sit in a canoe motionless, skulk out of it into a blind with the owner, sneak around the water and flush the ducks towards the hunter... then retrieve downed birds and return them. That's what our dogs were trained to do and they were great at it. But it took my family many, many generations of dogs to get to that extent of trainability and attributes that made them willing to do that. By the time my great uncle was doing it these dogs would practically beg you to take them hunting... they yearned for it.
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This (http://www.sunchronicle.com/articles/2007/11/01/news/news2.txt) was in my local paper tonight. Woman sicks pit bull on Police, they tase it at close range, and it doesn't go down.
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my late, and only comment on this thread. the crappest thing about having any sort of dog as a deterent is, well, the CRAP! its nasty. i know im going to upset people here, but how can you live with a yard full of rank feces? get a burglar alarm...
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It's not hard to pick up.
That said, when I first got married, we rented a little basement apartment that we liked mostly because it had a nice enclosed backyard we could play in with our son... what the live-in landlord didn't tell us is that the yard was basically only used as their dog's toilet and would soon be covered in more dog crap than you would think possible for a single dog. You couldn't even walk in the yard.
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i know im going to upset people here, but how can you live with a yard full of rank feces?
As Chad said, it really isn't hard to pick it up and put it in a small garbage can. That's what we do with our golden retriever.
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I hate golden retrievers. It should be illegal for anything that big to be that dumb.
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You're bigger than a golden retriever.
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Ba doom boom PSSSH.
No one saw that coming! ;D
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I hate golden retrievers. It should be illegal for anything that big to be that dumb.
No doubt. My sister in law breeds them and they are absolutely retarded. Now labrador retrievers are a different story. If I ever get a dog, it will be a female yellow lab.
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Maybe she needs to mix in some smarter examples. If she keeps breeding the same retarded dogs she's just making each one dumber than the last...
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My dog is certainly not retarded - not even sure what that means. Do the dogs your sister breeds walk into walls or something? What makes them "retarded"?
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I've seen golden retrievers run full speed into walls. They just never seem to grasp that the ball is going to bounce off and come back the other way.
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My dog is certainly not retarded - not even sure what that means. Do the dogs your sister breeds walk into walls or something? What makes them "retarded"?
Awkward, clutzy dogs. No comprehension for anything other than themselves and your attention. Horrible with kids, mainly because they aren't even aware they are there most of the time (knock them over and such). Treat their puppies like crap. Stomp them, knock them over, mostly just oblivious to their existence unless you are paying attention to them instead of the mommy and daddy.
Of course, just because dogs are pure blood doesn't mean they are of a good bloodline. That is why I think AKC papers are total BS. She makes $250-$300 a pop for the puppies though, so more power to her. ;)
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Your bigger than a golden retriever.
:laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:
I just spit pepsi on my keyboard reading that!
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She raises Britney Spears Retrievers.
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I got a letter from the village three months ago. It said if I didn't remove the dog waste from my lawn I'd be fined.
I called the village and told them I didn't have a dog. The guy told me it's my responsibility to keep my lawn clean. I told him that I don't do any lawn work so I didn't know there was even a problem. He then said they do property checks on random Friday mornings and I should do a property inspection of my own every Thursday night. I told him that the lawn service comes every Tuesday, and that it was <dog waste> that I have to clean up after other people's dogs. I then said if all I had to do was make sure the lawn was clean I was going to throw the dog waste into the street. he told me that was a bad idea, but it would solve my lawn problems.
My neighbor has a dog, so after work on Thursday I get the mail from the mail box, take a piece of junk mail and use it to flip any dog waste onto his side walk. Then I throw the junk mail into the trash can by my garage. I figure it would be easier for the property inspector to see it if it were on the sidewalk and after he gets a letter he’ll be less likely to not clean up after his dog.
I've only found (and flipped) dog waste on my yard once and I haven't received any other letters.
Besides the one letter, I have had no problems with my neighbor’s dog. It’s a terrier of some kind. I don’t mind the occasional barking and if it weren’t for the village’s threat to fine me I wouldn’t care, or even know about the waste on my lawn. It’s a small dog, with small poop, and I don't use the front yard for anything.
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My dog is certainly not retarded - not even sure what that means. Do the dogs your sister breeds walk into walls or something? What makes them "retarded"?
Awkward, clutzy dogs. No comprehension for anything other than themselves and your attention. Horrible with kids, mainly because they aren't even aware they are there most of the time (knock them over and such). Treat their puppies like crap. Stomp them, knock them over, mostly just oblivious to their existence unless you are paying attention to them instead of the mommy and daddy.
Of course, just because dogs are pure blood doesn't mean they are of a good bloodline. That is why I think AKC papers are total BS. She makes $250-$300 a pop for the puppies though, so more power to her. ;)
Not sure what the deal is with your sisters dogs, but here ya go: Dogs Good With Children (http://www.gopetsamerica.com/dogs/dogs-good-with-kids.aspx). The first on the list is Labrador Retriever, which if you read the description includes Golden Retrievers.
Also note the description down the page for Golden Retrievers:
Golden Retrievers are ideal playmates for children - gentle, affectionate and eager to please.
And here's a link about Golden Retrievers:
http://www.gopetsamerica.com/golden-retriever/golden-retriever.aspx
Note the "Personality" and "Suitability for Children" sections in the last link.
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sharidan is right - they are nice to children but will accidentally hurt them if the kids are small. They knock the kids down, run over them, etc. They will never attack the kids.
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sharidan is right - they are nice to children but will accidentally hurt them if the kids are small. They knock the kids down, run over them, etc. They will never attack the kids.
Exactly.
Now my wife had a yellow lab growing up that was still around for her nephew to have until she died two years ago. That lab was absolutely awesome. She was as gentle as can be with kids. She also had a kind of sense when the nephew was doing something he shouldn't be, and would step between him and any possible danger. It was really a site to see. Kind to every single person. Accompanied us on walks and if another dog came around, she would get between us and the dog. That dog had the best personality of any dog I've ever seen.
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sharidan is right - they are nice to children but will accidentally hurt them if the kids are small. They knock the kids down, run over them, etc. They will never attack the kids.
I can agree with this, they are playful and friendly and may accidentally knock kids over. But Sharidan mentioned they are horrible with kids - that is not true.
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That dog had the best personality of any dog I've ever seen.
Are you trying to say she was fat?
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sharidan is right - they are nice to children but will accidentally hurt them if the kids are small. They knock the kids down, run over them, etc. They will never attack the kids.
I can agree with this, they are playful and friendly and may accidentally knock kids over. But Sharidan mentioned they are horrible with kids - that is not true.
No, I was trying to say that these specific retrievers sucked with my sis in laws kids. They'd play fetch, but would get too excited and bowl the kid over when returning the ball. Then step on them a few times for good measure. I've never seen such clumsy dogs.
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That dog had the best personality of any dog I've ever seen.
Are you trying to say she was fat?
Well she did put on a few pounds in her later years, and did tend to let some offensive stinkers. ;D Another funny story about her. She would always take naps in the living room, and on a fairly frequent basis would rip off a loud one - so loud that she woke herself up. Then she would give the nearest person a dirty look and leave the room in an offended huff. It was funny as hell every time.
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You're bigger than a golden retriever.
And I'm easily twice as smart as a golden retriever. ;D
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Which, of course, would easily give you an IQ of 50. ;D
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So long as I can download porn and understand that doorknobs are not food, that's smart enough for me.
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download? Ha! Stream it like youtube. It's easier.
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So long as I can download porn
Yeah but dogs are good enough to get right up on the goods and not get smacked most of the time. Score one for the dog!
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You're bigger than a golden retriever.
And I'm easily twice as smart as a golden retriever. ;D
;D
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It's true. I've never just started humping some random girl I thought was hot. I think there might even be a law against it. I have to make due with porn. Golden retriever, 1, shmokes, 0.
However, I don't eat doorknobs, so I think that ties us up. But I went to law school, which probably puts me back at a deficit. :(
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Yeah but dogs are good enough to get right up on the goods and not get smacked most of the time. Score one for the dog!
Dogs can bite a Mexican vagina and get away with it.
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Yeah but dogs are good enough to get right up on the goods and not get smacked most of the time. Score one for the dog!
Dogs can bite a Mexican vagina and get away with it.
Yeah, but they lose a point for biting other dogs penis.
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I saw that woman. I already deducted the point for her vagina.
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You're bigger than a golden retriever.
:laugh2:
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Family Pit Bull (or bull dog/pit mix, depending on the source) attacks and kills 4 year old (http://www.azcentral.com/community/phoenix/articles/12n-1105dogattack-CP.html)
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Family Pit Bull attacks and kills 4 year old (http://www.azcentral.com/community/phoenix/articles/12n-1105dogattack-CP.html)
:o :o
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Family Pit Bull attacks and kills 4 year old (http://www.azcentral.com/community/phoenix/articles/12n-1105dogattack-CP.html)
:o :o
That wasn't a pit bull, it was an American bulldog.
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A bulldog... That must have been a terrible way to die. :-\
I was talking about this with a family member who still does train dogs (but not the tollers I previously mentioned) the other day... she said the usual rule is that if you are concerned about your child's safety relative to the dog you should not have a dog that weighs more than your child.
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Family Pit Bull attacks and kills 4 year old (http://www.azcentral.com/community/phoenix/articles/12n-1105dogattack-CP.html)
:o :o
That wasn't a pit bull, it was an American bulldog.
Ah, my bad. I have a google alerts for "pitt bull", and the difference didn't register in the article. I originally read it in the article below, and it was referred to as a pit bull there:
Additional story coverage (http://www.myfoxaustin.com/myfox/pages/News/Detail?contentId=4843052&version=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=3.3.1)
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Ah, my bad. I have a google alerts for "pitt bull", and the difference didn't register in the article. I originally read it in the article below, and it was referred to as a pit bull there:
Additional story coverage (http://www.myfoxaustin.com/myfox/pages/News/Detail?contentId=4843052&version=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=3.3.1)
They are closely related breeds. If I had kids, I wouldn't want anything even resembling a pit bull around them.
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That second story says Pitt Bull mix... that could be anything, depending on the breeder, from mostly Pitt to it having sniffed a Pitt's ass in the kennel.
That dog wasn't very well trained anyway. An 80lb dog that jumps up onto visitors? I'm not saying training would have necessarily prevented this but the dog wasn't taught proper limits.
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I am finally calm enough to update on my pit bull situation. A long story short, the neighbor now has his dogs on shock collars and keeps them inside at all times. He was pissy and whiny with me at first after I called animal control when the dogs came after my wife in OUR yard. After I explained to him what happened and why I called, he didn't argue too much and I haven't seen the dogs since.
Of course, I did get the standard "oh these dogs are harmless. I wouldn't let dangerous dogs near my kids." I feel like printing off these stories I read and leaving them on his door.
Oh, and the final verdict on what the dogs are:
The pit bull according to the owner is a mix breed of pitbull and lab (---my bottom--- that dog has lab in her blood). The big dog, according to the owner is an american bull dog terrier. Guess what Mr dumbass irresponsible dog owner, ABDT are considered "pit bulls".
Anyways, here is an interesting historical read on pit bulls and/or bulldogs.
History of pit bulls/bulldog terriers (http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images/view?back=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.search.yahoo.com%2Fsearch%2Fimages%3Fei%3DUTF-8%26p%3Damercian%2520bull%2520dog%2520terrier%26fr2%3Dtab-web%26fr%3Dyfp-t-501&w=150&h=220&imgurl=www.badrap.org%2Frescue%2Fimg%2Fneo.JPG&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.badrap.org%2Frescue%2Fbreed.cfm&size=14.9kB&name=neo.JPG&p=amercian+bull+dog+terrier&type=jpeg&no=1&tt=1&oid=33cccfeeaddb1602&ei=UTF-8)
Of interesting note:
-Originally they were bred for violent tendencies towards other dogs, but also bred to NOT bite humans.
-Up until the 80's, they were considered great, loveable dogs.
- In the 80's previously unheard of pit bull attacks started to become common. The combination of overbreeding, poor (backyard) breeding, and poor training ownership led to the now common view of the breed in general.
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Isn't it funny how when animals are bred for specific traits they also develop unexpected ones like that?
Oh wait, it's not, that's how livings things are. They are independent and have minds of their own.
The dog came after your wife in your yard? :o Can we assume that no one was harmed?
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Isn't it funny how when animals are bred for specific traits they also develop unexpected ones like that?
Oh wait, it's not, that's how livings things are. They are independent and have minds of their own.
The dog came after your wife in your yard? :o Can we assume that no one was harmed?
She was next to the water hose, so she let loose on them. Yeah, she was in the back yard picking up some trash that the dogs tore up, and they saw her from their yard across the street and came hauling after her, growling and barking. Now odds are, they weren't going to full-on attack, but were simply "defending their turf from outsiders" with a stern show. I personally don't give a ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---. Dogs like that come tearing after you in that mood, the last thing I'm thinking is they want to be petted. That is simply ridiculous. I shouldn't have to live with that ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- on my own property.
Oh, and here is another classy quote from the owner and his wife trying to downplay their dogs. mind you, this was said right after I initially told them about the dogs coming after my wife:
"Oh, they just want to be petted. That big old meathead (the bigger dog) is too dumb to hurt anyone"
I am glad they are put up now, and am also glad about the shock collars. When I went over there to talk to them, the big dog was right outside the door, and let me tell you, that shock collar had knocked him down from "big dog" to "little dog". It was really kind of pathetic looking - he knew he'd been put in his place. I petted him and he was real nice. :laugh2:
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Next step, of course, is to find yourself some remotes to those collars.
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I don't know if they have remotes. It is one of those barking collars that zaps them when they bark or growl.
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Ew, harsh, I hate those. Good for you personally in this case, lazy ass terrible solution for the animal. This owner sucks. He shouldn't punish them just for being dogs. They need to be taught proper limits... like a fence around his yard.
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I've got a 'remote' for you...
Video (http://www.taurususa.com/video/taurus-theJudge-video.cfm)
Web Page (http://www.thejudge.us/)
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Ew, harsh, I hate those. Good for you personally in this case, lazy ass terrible solution for the animal. This owner sucks. He shouldn't punish them just for being dogs. They need to be taught proper limits... like a fence around his yard.
He has a fence in the rear, but they can get out due to a retaining wall on one side. I doubt the lazy ---fudgesicle--- will even walk them now. Sure I feel sorry for the dogs in a way, but my family comes first.
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He has a fence in the rear, but they can get out due to a retaining wall on one side. I doubt the lazy ---fudgesicle--- will even walk them now. Sure I feel sorry for the dogs in a way, but my family comes first.
Family absolutely comes first. They're not your animals, and if they were, the family would still come way ahead of them.
How well does this asshat take care of his kids? I've found that most of the time, guys who don't take reasonable care of their dogs, don't take reasonable care of their kids either. If the mother isn't doing all the work it doesn't get done.
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Well, they have two kids - each from previous relationships. The little girl is his, and the little boy is hers. The owner works all day, then goes and works odd-jobs many nights of the week. (gotta pay for that brand new $30000 truck somehow, even though you just have a $7/hour job ::)). The wife works full time at a furniture store. She's really hot though. ;D
Nice people. Up until the dogs showed up, we were friendly with them. Then all the sudden, the whole neighborhood went on lockdown. The jackass who is President of the sub-division has a defeatist attitude and tells anyone who complains about anything that "nothing can be done about it - it's just the way it is". I've had it with that son of a ---smurfette---, but that is another story and I'm leaving his part in the dog drama out of it.
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Sounds like you need a new President.
I'm so glad they don't have those stupid associations in MA. I have read about them but can't say I've ever seen one here that wasn't in a nearly closed development that has actual shared property in the mix.
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Yep, these sure are great dogs:
http://www.azcentral.com/community/phoenix/articles/12n-1105dogattack-CP.html
http://www.floridatoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071107/BREAKINGNEWS/311070006/1086
http://www.kcbd.com/Global/story.asp?S=7322805&nav=menu69_3
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071106/UPDATE/711060456/1361
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Update:
Dogs out and about again today. Already adapted to the shock collar - it doesn't even phase the big one. He followed and harrassed (barking & growling, approaching from behind) the wife & baby all the way to the mailbox and back. She didn't know he was out until she was past their house.
This situation just makes me miserable. No matter what I do, I'll be considered "the bad guy". No other neighbors are willing to do ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- - even though they make sure to "express their dislike and upsetness".
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That's exactly why the government should ban overly dangerous dogs. "Freedom" is not just being allowed to do whatever you want, but often "Freedom" is not to be hindered by other people's asocial behavior.
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Yep, it's not cool when a person who is a murderer comes up behind you and it's really hard to tell the difference between a normal person and a psycho. Be carefull. :tool:
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You're right that's hard to tell. With dogs it's very easy though. There are 3 breeds that are proven to be very dangerous.
Are you that dense that you cannot even see that difference?
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It's so sad that in this day and age that people are so ignorant as to STILL lump things that seem similar all in one group and STILL not know that all things are NOT created equal. How can you not know that when people combined with circumstance's interact with things on this earth there are good results and bad, that's all.
You guys are so lost it's not funny. If you can judge this one idea so badly i have to think that you are living a life in an ignorancefull bliss.
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Those 3 breeds are held by only a few people. Yet they are still responsible for 80% of the attacks. is it really that hard to understand that those breeds are dangerous?
A house cat and a puma are both just as easily domesticated. Which would you hold in your house if both were allowed?
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Those 3 breeds are held by only a few people. Yet they are still responsible for 80% of the attacks. is it really that hard to understand that those breeds are dangerous?
A house cat and a puma are both just as easily domesticated. Which would you hold in your house if both were allowed?
I'd rather not answer that. I've ran into a few guys named patrick and I've come to the conclusion that anyone with that name is a complete idiot. :applaud:
No harm intended.
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OK, so you are not very bright. That's ok. Maybe another example will help.
Suppose there is this new cool and shiny gun. It looks completely like crap, so no sane person wants it. On the other hand, it does have the loudest bang of them all and only the cool people with the nice trailers buy them. Now this type of gun has one tiny problem. On average once every 1000 rounds a gun of this type blows up and seriously injures (if not kills) the person holding the gun or an innocent bystander. If you clean the gun after every shot you might be able to lower the average risk, but oddly enough the guns that blow up are usually reported to be cleaned very thoroughly, so it doesn't really seem to matter that much.
I guess you would be first to get such a gun, but don't you think it's a bit asocial to shoot that gun on the shooting range next to someone who does not have your wish to get maimed?
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I'd rather not answer that. I've ran into a few guys named patrick and I've come to the conclusion that anyone with that name is a complete idiot. :applaud:
No harm intended.
Hey I thought you gave up on this thread. Talk about weak minded... ;D
Anyways, since you are here, I will kindly refer you to the history of the American bull terrier I posted on the previous page. Once upon a time, "pit bulls" were kind towards humans and were a highly sought after family pet. Their bloodlines have been contaminated in the last 30 years by bad overbreeding and bad socialization, which is transferred thru bad breeding. The "pit bulls" of today are not the same "pit bulls" of yesteryear. Sure, there are plenty who are still good and hold the traits of the older bloodlines. Unfortunately, since any tom dick or harry can sell "purebred" AKC pups, most of which have not been properly weaned, the dogs are "ruined". And then they pass on their bad traits to their litters.
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Think of it as a child. The kid will do and act from what it knows and will carry all the bad habits of it's owner or parent from what it was taught and how it was brought up, it's really as simple as that. When you take a puppy pitbull and mold that dog into a peacefull dog from birth it will know nothing more than what you taught it, it can't act crazy if it was not taught to act crazy, it's not possible. I know animals have instincts and will have a certain drive inside them to want to do things that they feel a need to do, but it's not anything that can't be trained out of the animal, in part.
With my dog and what i did in his training was not trying to get the animal out of the dog, we are animals too, but try to get the basic need to hurt others out of fear or nervousness or from being confused, that's when animals attack. When dogs or pretty much anything living feels safe and knows it's place in the world and knows that nothing is going to try to harm them then there is no need for this kind of behavior. I made my dog feel safe in his home and trust those who are around him.
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But then one day you are redecorating your house/trailer and the constant noise of power tools gets on the dogs nerves. The dog no longer feels safe and loved in it's home, it's pretty damned annoyed. A person walks in, makes a wrong move and the dog snaps ...
Of all these attacks that you see in the paper really all people say that their dog was the greatest sweetheart too. It does happen that people train their pit to be an attack dog, but then at least they know to stay away from it. It's when the "sweethearts" have their bad moment and lash out that it goes wrong. It's always a bunch of coincidences why these dogs go nuts, but it's not something you control.
I hope your dog never goes attacks, but you are insane in thinking that you can prevent it from attacking.
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Tommy, it's simple - you are wrong.
If a dog is mesed up when its born, it can't be trained away. Ask and REAL dog breeder/trainer. The truth is that dogs just don't one day "snap". The warning signs are there, people just don't recognize them most of the time. Dogs that are territorial as a pup - bad thing. Puppies that growl when you place your hand near their food - a sign people. Ankle biters and dogs that chase and act brave when a persons back is turned, but shy away when the person turns around - bad sign. That means the dog has bad nerves and basically has a mental imbalance just like a human with mental problems would have. You can't train that away with sunshine and daisies like you think.
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Yep, it's not cool when a person who is a murderer comes up behind you and it's really hard to tell the difference between a normal person and a psycho. Be carefull. :tool:
That dog's behaviour would be considered harrassment and/or assault were it a person. Consider that. That's not a normal person behind his wife. It's a 6-8 275 guy yelling at her.
Think of it as a child (or a gun).
Can't do that. It's not a child... a child has rational thought and right/wrong. A dog only has impulse and reward/consequence. It's not a gun... a gun is an inanimate object that cannot act on its own.
It's an animal. It will act like an animal and must be thought of as such.
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Yep, it's not cool when a person who is a murderer comes up behind you and it's really hard to tell the difference between a normal person and a psycho. Be carefull. :tool:
That dog's behaviour would be considered harrassment and/or assault were it a person. Consider that. That's not a normal person behind his wife. It's a 6-8 275 guy yelling at her.
Yeah, that statement was so utterly retarded I didn't even know what to do with it. I guess I would have to visit Tommyville for a while to understand some of the things he thinks or says.
WELCOME TO TOMMYVILLE!
Population: 1
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We can get you to tommyville but I'm afraid it is a one way trip.
The only thing I can think of where that comment is consistent with his prior statements is if he thinks following a pedestrian while growling and barking (without touching) is reasonable and that a well trained dog is within his limits doing that. If he actually believes that, though, then every statement he has ever made about his dog and its training has become irrelevant.
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Tommy,
Just keep living in your dreamworld. You are completely wrong and have nothing to back up your opinion. Face it, your dog is a ticking time-bomb.
http://www.sun-herald.com/NewsArchive2/051305/tp5np14.htm?date=051305&story=tp5np14.htm
Quote from link:
Hawkins said he was devastated by Bubba's attack on Merina, whom he admits did nothing to provoke it. He said the dog has never shown aggressive behavior until now.
"He's the best dog I ever had," he said.
Hmmm, that guy sounds alot like you, tommy.
http://www.rosenblog.com/2005/05/24/pit_bull_attacks_raise_questions.html
The term "responsible pit bull owner" is fast becoming an oxymoron....The breed is being ruined by the nuts out there who call themselves breeders, who aren't breeding for good, stable temperments. Anyone who has ever flipped through any of the major dog magazines, like Dog Fancy, cannot with a straight face claim that pit bulls are being bred as loving family pets. I have never met a group of dog owners who know less about their breed, or dogs in general, than pit bull owners. They insist that "it's all how you raise them" and completely ignore the genetic component of dog behavior.
Human affection won't make my bird dog ignore birds; and love and kisses won't make a fighting breed safe to be around other animals....only years and years of constant training and socialization will temper that genetic drive. Animal aggresion in pits is real, and very dangerous, as many people have been mauled trying to save their pet from a neighbor's pit who "just got loose once". Its called re-directed aggression, and it happens.
And the pit who attacks other small animals who has not been socialized with small children may mistake a toddler for an animal...it's called prey drive....the news is full of such accounts.
...When you combine the pit's massive jaw strength, and genetic trait known as "gameness"...the ability to hang on and keep attacking and not back down, that prized trait of fighting dogs.....unless this animal is very carefully bred for temperment you have a very dangerous dog.
No doubt a pit bull carefully bred by a responsible breeder for a non-aggressive temperment, owned by a responsible owner who spends lots of time training and socializing the dog, can make a wonderful pet. Even so, responsible owners of fighting breeds know that they cannot take their animals to dog parks or let them off leash in public EVER.
They don't set their dogs up to fail. The problem with pit bulls is the owners, and you will never solve the problem of forcing the types of people who are attracted to this breed to do the right thing. That's why people want them banned.
Keep fooling yourself, tommy... And don't be surprised when you lovey, snuggly Pit attacks you or someone you love and mauls them.
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The problem with pit bulls is the owners, and you will never solve the problem of forcing the types of people who are attracted to this breed to do the right thing. That's why people want them banned.
That has always been my statement on pit bulls... sure, as tommy says, the problem is owners. What no owner ever presents is a way to ban stupid owners. They simply say "don't ban the dogs because of the owners"... okay, fair enough, tell us how to ban the owners.
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And the problem just compounds when you have these bad owners combined with a dog that is genetically engineered to be aggressive.
Look at all the stories of the 'good owners' and how they are so shocked and surprised when their snuggly pit bull ripped the arm of the neighbors kids. Somehow banning the bad owners won't solve the problem. Pits have been bred for way to long to be aggressive. It would take years, maybe even decades, of proper, careful responsible breeding to get these dogs back to being safe family pets.
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Why does it seem everyone who does not have a dog like this knows so much more about them the a person who actually has a dog like this? The fact is you don't know a damn thing about these dogs, all you know is what you read online, but somehow that does not include what i say and you only like to hear the bad things that you want to hear. I bet it makes you feel good to hate things for no good reason.
I've told you that my dog has been a perfect dog for many years now and if another 10 years went by and it was still the same, you guys would just come up with another stupid reason why he did not bite anyone and that i am still in danger. It will never end with you people, once you get a bad idea in your head you can never let it go. I feel sorry for you.
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Read this
http://www.austinlostpets.com/kidskorner/2October/pitbull.htm
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I believe that most properly trained pitbulls will never spontanously attack someone. However, I also believe that very few pitbulls are properly trained and that a pitbull not properly trained is far more likely to attack a person than any other breed.
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Why does it seem everyone who does not have a dog like this knows so much more about them the a person who actually has a dog like this? The fact is you don't know a damn thing about these dogs, all you know is what you read online, but somehow that does not include what i say and you only like to hear the bad things that you want to hear. I bet it makes you feel good to hate things for no good reason.
I've told you that my dog has been a perfect dog for many years now and if another 10 years went by and it was still the same, you guys would just come up with another stupid reason why he did not bite anyone and that i am still in danger. It will never end with you people, once you get a bad idea in your head you can never let it go. I feel sorry for you.
I'll answer in bulletin form to keep things simple:
-because I do know more about the breed than the owner
-I've done considerable research from credible sources and had conversations with a well known and respected PROFESSIONAL dog breeder and police dog trainer.
- I don't hate anything for "no good reason". I have very good reason for "not liking" you though. ;D
-I don't give a rats ass about "your dog". "Your dog" is not the problem. The thousands of other poorly trained, poorly bred, POORLY owned pit bulls are the problem.
- Don't worry, lots of people feel sorry for you too.
BTW, there is nothing in your link I have not already said here in this thread, or posted a link to. The "glory days" of the American Pit Bull has already been mentioned. Pay attention!
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Thank god Tommy is an NFL Expert, because he's way off on his pitbull argument. Any dog owner despite if it is a Chihuahua or Pitbull that refuses to believe that their dog incapable of random violence has their head burried in the sand. Pitbulls which were bred to be aggressive will always have a possibility to become aggressive despite how they were raised. Its the same thing for dog breeds used as bird dogs, they have some natural talents which in this case is a liability. As long as the Pitbull owner is responsible and doesn't leave the dog unrestrained and unable to kill anyone but the owner there shouldn't be a problem, but if their neglegence results in death then the dog owner should be held responsible as if the animal was a weapon.
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"Your dog" is not the problem. The thousands of other poorly trained, poorly bred, POORLY owned pit bulls are the problem.
You're right, and me and my dog are proof that with the right training and care any dog can also "not be the problem" if the proper steps are taken.
That's all i've been saying here.
Thanks you for supporting me and my dog and my dog training methods. ;D
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Mmmm... dog breads.
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"Your dog" is not the problem. The thousands of other poorly trained, poorly bred, POORLY owned pit bulls are the problem.
You're right, and me and my dog are proof that with the right training and care any dog can also "not be the problem" if the proper steps are taken.
That's all i've been saying here.
Thanks you for supporting me and my dog and my dog training methods. ;D
So you also believe the average owner trains their pits properly? Otherwise it would seem like even you would agree it's a mistake trying to convince your clients to get one.
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A well trained dog can still attack if provoked or aggravated enough. There are so many examples of very obedient pits that DO attack when they are in a bad mood.
The dog might always seem to obey it's master, but it might find a kid annoying or even "just want to play" and bite the kids head off.
Pits are not dangerous because they are prone to attack a lot, but because of the incredible damage they do when they have their rare bad moment.
It's amazing that self proclaimed expert pit trainers know so little about the dangers of these dogs. Or rather that they can be so arrogant that they think they can tame a dangerous animal and that their expertise will be enough to ensure it will never hurt someone.
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Pits are not dangerous because they are prone to attack a lot
Erm, yes they are. All of the stats, all of them, show they are more prone to attack.
Keep in mind the differentiation between attack and bite. Few dog breeds will come after anything with a sustained attack. They mostly bite and back off to see what happens next.
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ah good, semantics
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Pits are not dangerous because they are prone to attack a lot
Erm, yes they are. All of the stats, all of them, show they are more prone to attack.
Keep in mind the differentiation between attack and bite. Few dog breeds will come after anything with a sustained attack. They mostly bite and back off to see what happens next.
Stats.... :laugh2: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah:
For every stat that says one thing i can find another stat that totally contradicts that stat and so on.
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You ignore the statistics, that's not the same.
But sure, show us the statistics that Pits are safe dogs.
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If a pit was acting aggressive towards me or my family, I'd kill it, plain and simple.
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If a pit was acting aggressive towards me or my family, I'd kill it, plain and simple.
No ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---? Just like I'd kill you if you did the same to my family. Don't be a fool, that comment you made was really lame.
Read this whole thing, and even better then reading it, understand it.
http://www.pitbulllovers.com/pitbullblog/?p=59
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That's not a trivial semantic at all... unless you don't see the difference between a couple of stitches and a gruesome death.
Raw incident stats consider a simple terrier bite the same as a pit attack. Do you?
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I have to say, that although I don't want to get too involved in this, Tommy is not displaying the rational behaviour of a 'responsible' dog owner.
Well thought out argument is one thing, but you seem to be displaying the same traits found in some badly trained pit-bull. Talks of killings if anyone harmed your family have not done you any favours in your defence of this argument (however honest they are).
Just my 2c's, as you guys say across the pond.
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Actually, Tommy has demonstrated that he is a typical Pit owner. Violent and irrational. You have to be that way to justify owning such a violent and unpredictable breed.
Out of all the various types of dogs you can buy, there's only ONE reason anyone would ever willingly choose to buy a pure-bred pit-bull....they've got something to prove, and they want to pretend to be a bad-ass.
Those that would evangelize about Pits in spite of all the negative press and statistic showing a propensity for violence are probably the least sensible of the already irrational bunch. I'm willing to bet that the fact that Tommy's pit hasn't bitten anyone yet isn't a testament to his advanced training techniques, but rather just a matter of pure luck. It's only a matter of time.
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I'm a fine dog owner and a fine person, thank you. ;D
Just imagine how irritated YOU would be if people kept coming to a thread and kept saying the world is flat and insisted on it, that's how i feel about some on you on this topic.
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If a pit was acting aggressive towards me or my family, I'd kill it, plain and simple.
No ---Cleveland steamer---? Just like I'd kill you if you did the same to my family. Don't be a fool, that comment you made was really lame.
Read this whole thing, and even better then reading it, understand it.
http://www.pitbulllovers.com/pitbullblog/?p=59
---fudgesicle--- you tommy, you're lame...
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That's not a trivial semantic at all... unless you don't see the difference between a couple of stitches and a gruesome death.
I made exactly that distinction in my post.
There are breeds of dogs that are much more prone to attack, but they don't wound people when they attack. Calling an attack without injury a "bite" is what I call semantics. Most of them don't even bite at all, but just bark at you.
The stats I quoted counted only "attacks with bodily harm" as opposed to all attacks. They don't call the one type "attacks" and the other "bites".
The point is that pits are mostly not aggressive at all, but that the damage they inflict when they attack is horrendous. Their owners will claim all is well because their dog from hell seems docile. Yet they don't want to face the fact that it only takes one bad moment for the dog to attack and severely hurt someone.
In more than two-thirds of the cases included in the study, the life-threatening or fatal attack was apparently the first known dangerous behavior by the animal in question
With other dogs you can kill a dog after it bites and prevent serious harm. With a pit, after the first bite it's too late. So that's over 424 maimed people in the US & Canada where the owner always claimed that his dog was a "wovely little cutie patootie".
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Read this whole thing, and even better then reading it, understand it.
http://www.pitbulllovers.com/pitbullblog/?p=59
Lol, that's all you have to offer as proof that these dogs are safe? A poorly written opinion piece? Sad.
Minature Poodle bites a kids finger is not going to draw the readers as “Pit Bull Mauls Toddlers Hand.”
You're damned right it won't. A dog bite is not nearly as bad as losing a limb now is it?
Miami-Dade County Florida has had a Pit Bull ban for well over 10 years now. Flip on Miami Animal Cops on Animal Planet one night and guess what you will see. Yes, Pit Bulls.
So the solution is to not ban at all? What kind of backwards argument is that? People break the speed limit a lot, so just abandon the speed limit? People murder people often, so why not just allow people killing each other?
If you worry that your kids are going to be bitten by a dog. Try watching them. You never know that might actually help stop a few bites.
WTF? That has to be just the bloody limit.
I will leave you with this. The problem is not a dog problem. It’s a people problem that involves dogs. Until we address the people end of this problem we will never get anywhere.
Again that lame cop out and again, no mention of how to solve " the people end of the problem"? What other option than getting rid of these crappy dogs is there?
We will continue to isolate people and restrict people to the point where we have no freedom left at all.
It makes much more sense to let the millions of sane people live in freedom while the asocial minority will just have to settle for not living with an ass ugly dog.
He is right in that the CDC figures are useless. It does indeed report bites and does not differentiate between severity of the bites. In reality the CDC figures are abused by pit lovers rather than by sane people. They claim the little dogs are much more dangerous because they bit a lot more often than pits do.
The figures I quoted report actually injured/maimed/dead people resulting from dog bites. So that's not people with some spit on their pants, but people missing a limb or even their live.
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African American people populate the worlds prisons far more than Caucasians do. Does that mean we need to do something about this race of people, maybe get rid of them so we have less crime in the world, and i guess since the majority of the prison population is black there is no chance that you will ever run across a nice black person or one that has never been in trouble in his or her whole life and is a good person?
That's how ridiculous your pit bull argument is. It's all nonsense.
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I'm a fine dog owner and a fine person, thank you. ;D
I'm sure you are, and as such I think you'll just have to agree to disagree with other peoples opinions of pitbulls.
I have to add though, that if one of my 5 year old daughters friends wanted a playdate at their house, and I knew they had a pitball, there would be no way she would be going. Ever.
Ratzz
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African American people populate the worlds prisons far more than Caucasians do. Does that mean we need to do something about this race of people, maybe get rid of them so we have less crime in the world, and i guess since the majority of the prison population is black there is no chance that you will ever run across a nice black person or one that has never been in trouble in his or her whole life and is a good person?
That's how ridiculous your pit bull argument is. It's all nonsense.
First off, are you SURE black peopleoutnumber white people in prison?Maybe you're just a racist. ::)
Anyways, please stop comparing animal behavior to human behavior. That is a ridiculously bad argument and you just end up looking stupid.I'm tryin to help ya' little pup.
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African American people populate the worlds prisons far more than Caucasians do. Does that mean we need to do something about this race of people, maybe get rid of them so we have less crime in the world, and i guess since the majority of the prison population is black there is no chance that you will ever run across a nice black person or one that has never been in trouble in his or her whole life and is a good person?
That's how ridiculous your pit bull argument is. It's all nonsense.
First off, are you SURE black peopleoutnumber white people in prison?Maybe you're just a racist. ::)
Anyways, please stop comparing animal behavior to human behavior. That is a ridiculously bad argument and you just end up looking stupid.I'm tryin to help ya' little pup.
It's the same concept, man. Do you get the idea and concept? :angel:
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So, you just like to have your little answer about things and all is ok with your life? No matter if it's true or not?
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Come on jeffo, say something in your own words about this topic.
I have a feeling you agree with me in some small way.
You can't go on all your life quoting such a great writer as myself. ;D
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Read the thread, tommy ... I have said plenty (something about the intellectual capacity of your dog ?) and you seem to disagree with me on the one point that I consider key ... EVERY dog has the potential to attack because they are ANIMALS.
Anybody who ignores that basic fact is a fool and, in the case of someone who owns a dog that can do permanent or fatal damage, a complete (and criminally irresponsible) idiot. People like this can be identified by such ridiculous statements as "I've trained my dog so that they are completely obedient".
You also seem to misunderstand the purpose of the TommySwami(tm) ... it allows me to provide an ability-matched opponent for you. After all, who else could come up with
I guess we all just need a warm safe place to lay our head and feel safe in our own mind.
It's a good thing that place is too small for a pitbull to sneak in ...
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African American people populate the worlds prisons far more than Caucasians do. Does that mean we need to do something about this race of people, maybe get rid of them so we have less crime in the world, and i guess since the majority of the prison population is black there is no chance that you will ever run across a nice black person or one that has never been in trouble in his or her whole life and is a good person?
That's how ridiculous your pit bull argument is. It's all nonsense.
That race vs breed nonsense argument is what is completely ridiculous. African Americans and Caucasians are almost identical apart from the skin color. A pit bull and a poodle are worlds apart.
You really cannot tell the difference between a pit bull and a poodle? Why not keep a poodle instead then?
A puma and a housecat are both cats. In fact a puma is just as easy to domesticate as a housecat. Would you keep a puma in your house? Or lions. Another cat. In the circus they keep them just fine. Lions are so friendly you can put your head in their mouth. Just because one bad lion ate a person is no reason to ban all lions. Completely ridiculous indeed.
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That's not what i said and that's not the concept.
There is a difference between a wild animal held captive in a human environment to a domesticated dog.
Don't be silly and go to the other end of the spectrum.
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Latest news:
CNN Video: Two Good Samaritans prevented a pit bull from killing an Ohio boy. (http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2007/11/12/mallett.oh.pit.bull.attack.wbns)
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Is a story about a pit killing someone supposed to mean something special to anyone?
It's a sad story that someone got hurt or died, but it really has nothing to do with these dogs that anything else that is living could not also do givin the right circumstances, or wrong circumstances.
These dogs that hurt people have owners that wanted the dog to act that way and so, it does. Then when you get enough idiots with these dogs that want to have them act this way you get a bad rep. It could happen to anything big enough to cause harm..
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That's not what i said and that's not the concept.
There is a difference between a wild animal held captive in a human environment to a domesticated dog.
Don't be silly and go to the other end of the spectrum.
Heh, seems like a much smaller difference then the one between a domesticated dog and a human, which is the comparison you are often making.
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My wife HAD a domesticated dog. It was a trained Jack Russell Terrier that she had since it was 8 weeks old.
We have a 1 year old daughter.
Said dog bit said daughter on the face.
He was watched constantly from the moment she was born, they were introduced slowly and the potential clash between girl and dog didnt happen until food was involved.
She walked up and took a chewie out of his mouth. A typical child action. Were this a pitbull i would no longer have a child.
I dont support a general Ban on anything. But, if a neighbor of mine gets a pitbull, a rottweiler or a doberman I would have no qualms about removing it from my property in a garbage bag, if it were acting vicious at all.
A dog is an animal, not a member of the family.
I'll chase it home with a broom once, maybe twice depending on my mood. After that the problem will quietly go away.
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There is nothing more i can say. We all know a small caliber gun would cause less damage then a bigger one, but in the right hands there would be no chance of even being shot. This is all moot.
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That's not what i said and that's not the concept.
There is a difference between a wild animal held captive in a human environment to a domesticated dog.
Don't be silly and go to the other end of the spectrum.
A puma can be domesticated just as easily as any regular house cat and circus lions are pretty domesticated too.
The reason we don't hold these animals in our homes (apart from the size of course) is the same as why pit bulls are so dangerous. Even though they may appear friendly and obedient, it takes just one mistake where they bite (or in the felines case claw) and you are in deep trouble. A well trained pit is very unlikely to bite someone, but if it does bite then the damage is severe. You can never completely prevent accidents with animals. So there always is a risk with bites and with pit bulls doing that much damage it's just too much of a risk to take with your own and other people's limbs/lives.
It's not the individual character or behavior of a dog that's in question. There you might argue that a friendly dog is less worse than an aggressive one. Obviously that is true. The point is the physical difference between a pit bull and a poodle which makes the bite of a pitbull so much more devastating than that of a poodle.
This severe damage is what makes the "actuarial risk" of a pit bull so much higher than that of other dogs.
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yes and a poorly trained pitbull, is a high caliber gun in the hands of a trained killer on pcp.
ie. deadly, and unpredictable
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There is nothing more i can say. We all know a small caliber gun would cause less damage then a bigger one, but in the right hands there would be no chance of even being shot. This is all moot.
Guns don't kill people, people do. So do dogs. On their own.
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Is a story about a pit killing someone supposed to mean something special to anyone?
It's a sad story that someone got hurt or died, but it really has nothing to do with these dogs that anything else that is living could not also do givin the right circumstances, or wrong circumstances.
These dogs that hurt people have owners that wanted the dog to act that way and so, it does. Then when you get enough idiots with these dogs that want to have them act this way you get a bad rep. It could happen to anything big enough to cause harm..
There you go again. Denying the statistical truth.
Pit bulls and their mixes are responsible for 1182 (54%) of attacks that were included in the study, 521 (46%) of the attacks upon children, 410 (62%) of the attacks upon adults, 110 (42%) of the deaths, and 636 (48%) of the maimings
In more than two-thirds of the cases included in the study, the life-threatening or fatal attack was apparently the first known dangerous behavior by the animal in question.
Sure a poodle COULD kill a person, but they just DON'T. What's the point of these claims?
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You know what you can do with your stats. I'm living it 24/7 and see it all to be lies and false truths.
See ya.
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See ya.
Smartest thing you've said in the whole thread.
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A good test of Tommys dogs training would be for him to put on a bacon coat and do some off-leash work while crouching down.
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A better test would be giving his dog free roam of the neighborhood and see just how friendly his dog is without "master's hand" nearby.
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A better test would be giving his dog free roam of the neighborhood and see just how friendly his dog is without "master's hand" nearby.
yeah but i wouldn't want his neighbors to have to risk their lives for the test.
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You know what you can do with your stats. I'm living it 24/7 and see it all to be lies and false truths.
That's is exactly the problem. You are unable/unwilling to understand statistics. It's not a fact that a pitbull will attack and maime someone. It's the risk that it might maime someone and you cannot see that from one example.
In fact your example fits in with the statistics perfectly. If your dog does ever attack then you will be with the 424 other owners who also stated their dog was a nice dog and then claimed their surprise to the fact that their dog just maimed someone.
I seriously hope you will never have to say to someone that you thought it was such a nice dog.
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A better test would be giving his dog free roam of the neighborhood and see just how friendly his dog is without "master's hand" nearby.
I lived in/near Amsterdam and knew some people in the lower tax brackets there too so they tend to have pits as well. I can attest that these were all very friendly dogs indeed. Not a bark or a growl. Still, 2 thirds of the fatal attacks comes from these friendly dogs.
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You know what you can do with your stats.
It takes even less brain power to be an idiot
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You know what you can do with your stats.
It takes even less brain power to be an idiot
LMAO
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You know what you can do with your stats.
It takes even less brain power to be an idiot
The quote-fu is strong with this one... :applaud:
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Iif i take the time to read a thread and see someone being an ass i will tell him all about it in detail.
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Iif i take the time to read a thread and see someone being an ass i will tell him all about it in detail.
:applaud:
That's one of my best ones yet.
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I agree, but talk that makes sense would be nice.
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Saw this on the local news this morning:
http://www.wpxi.com/news/14595454/detail.html
The owner said the dog is trained and has no idea why this happened.
I just can't believe that a trained pit bull would bite someone... that's just unheard of...
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The owner said the dog is trained and has no idea why this happened.
I just can't believe that a trained pit bull would bite someone... that's just unheard of...
Must be misinformation ... p33pz n33dz 2 chi11z ...
;)
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African American people populate the worlds prisons far more than Caucasians do. Does that mean we need to do something about this race of people, maybe get rid of them so we have less crime in the world, and i guess since the majority of the prison population is black there is no chance that you will ever run across a nice black person or one that has never been in trouble in his or her whole life and is a good person?
If you follow tommy's cause-effect logic, he just said that this country has a problem with untrained black people that have bad owners.
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It's so sad that in this day and age that Tommy is so ignorant as to STILL lump things that seem dissimilar all in one group and STILL not know that all things are NOT created equal. How can you not know that when people combined with circumstance's interact with things on this earth there are good results and bad, that's all.
Tommy guys is so lost it's not funny. If you can judge this one idea so badly i have to think that you are living a life in an ignorancefull bliss.
i forgot how good this thread was.
dont worry guys when tommy tries to take a chewie out of the dogs mouth i have a feeling we wont be seeing much more of him here.
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dont worry guys when tommy tries to take a chewie out of the dogs mouth i have a feeling we wont be seeing much more of him here.
Don’t listen to him tommy. After they sew one of your big toes onto what's left of your hand, you’ll still be able to out type your thoughts.
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My dog bows down to people after what I've taught him, there is no situation to where he thinks he is in a position to try to be the boss. My pit knows what his role is in life and that role does not include disobeying a person who tells it what to do or trying to defend itself in any situation.
I don't want to say he is scared of humans ( kinda like we just know that a bear is not something we want to mess with, he feels that way towards us) but for lack of a better word that is the case in a sense of him ever doing anything that can cause harm towards my family or anyone who he comes in contact with.
EDIT, added to response.
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so youve trained your dog to obey all commands from you even if your in a position of non dominance, ie: kneeling, or sitting flat on the floor so that your at or below his eye level?
Lay on the floor with a raw steak sitting on your stomach and have your dog obey a six year old while off leash without you giving any commands , video tape it and post it on youtube and I'll believe you.
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so youve trained your dog to obey all commands from you even if your in a position of non dominance, ie: kneeling, or sitting flat on the floor so that your at or below his eye level?
Lay on the floor with a raw steak sitting on your stomach and have your dog obey a six year old while off leash without you giving any commands , video tape it and post it on youtube and I'll believe you.
All he's gotta do is let his dog out of the house for a few days to see how quick his "years of training" will fly right out the window.
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or subject the dog to loud noise for a while and see if it still behaves as friendly as before
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You know what you can do with your stats. I'm living it 24/7 and see it all to be lies and false truths.
See ya.
Yes you are currently living it 24/7 until the dog decides otherwise.
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There is a difference between a wild animal held captive in a human environment to a domesticated dog.
Would the difference between a wild animal and a domesticated dog be that wild animals often attack unpredictably? :angel:
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Actually, wild animals are far easier to predict, since they're not brainwashed to fit into some other species' society. Domestication is the reason some of these dogs are effed up... they don't belong domesticated.
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There is a difference between a wild animal held captive in a human environment to a domesticated dog.
Would the difference between a wild animal and a domesticated dog be that wild animals often attack unpredictably? :angel:
Actually, Wild animals only attacked if they are threatened or provoked. Most of the time they avoid humans at all costs. Its only the domesticated animals that attack without provokation out in the neighborhood. ;)
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And on that subject, it is also well known that pit bulls are NOT the most vicious breed of dog. That title belongs to the wolf hybrid. idiots thought it would be cool to bred dogs with wolves for "bad ass pets". Wolves have a strongly bred instinct to avoid humans at all cost. When they are cross bred with dogs, their instints are put a direct conflict. Combine that mental instability with their size and power, and you have one ---fouled up beyond all recognition--- up combination.
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the Wolf/Hybrid can be an OK pet if you have the right conditions, mainly live in the outdoors miles from anywhere prefereably up north somewhere. Definitely not a city dog in any way shape or form. They still have the Pack mentality and will protect children like they were their own. Even up to defending them from you to theirs or your death. You have to be seriously Alpha Male with them.
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A few summers ago, I was a manager of a convenience store my father in law owned. Out back, we had a "watchdog" to protect the back door. He was a German Shepherd, but must of had something else in him. The reason I say that is because he was Jet black, and ---smurfing--- HUGE! I am about 6 feet tall, and he could drape his front legs around my shoulders. I am now thinking he might have been a wolf hybrid. The funny thing though is that he was the friendliest dog I've ever had ( I claimed him and took care of him). When I first met him, I was very leery of him. His bark was pretty intimidating, and of course his size was too.After getting to know him I was sitting out there with him, brushing out his coat and playing fetch.
Still, one time he busted his industrial size chain. He was just loping around dragging about 50 lbs of chain without a care in the world. While I was holding him so my father in law could repair his chain, he did something that spooked me pretty good. After struggling against his collar for a few minutes, he turned and looked me straight in the eye, then jerked right out of his collar and took off. Right then, I saw in his eyes that I didn't mean ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---, and he was gonna do whatever he wanted. I didn't realize it at first, but now I realize that if he eventually decided he didn't want me messing with him, all that I had done for him up till then wouldn't mean diddly squat.
I left at the end of the summer, and he bit a woman a few months later after he had gotten loose again.
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And on that subject, it is also well known that pit bulls are NOT the most vicious breed of dog. That title belongs to the wolf hybrid.
With wolf hybrids people at least have the common sense to keep them away from children. They hardly ever attack (and injure) adults.
At least they should know the danger that Wolf hybrids present to children. But then it could very well be the same silly type of people as the ones who claim that pitbulls are perfectly safe since their dog hasn't maimed anyone yet ::)
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I would trust a wolf hybrid with My child, but not Others, because of the pack instinct. Raised properly anyone living in the house is reasonably safe, but anybody stopping by is an intruder no matter what their age is. Two kids playing rough, one yours and one not, the one thats not is in physical danger. Plus they loose any fear of Man. Definitely not for the average dog owner. Not for city living, not for urban rural. If i lived out in the country with the nearest neighbor miles away, maybe although i would most likely stick with german sheppards.
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so youve trained your dog to obey all commands from you even if your in a position of non dominance, ie: kneeling, or sitting flat on the floor so that your at or below his eye level?
There is no difference in how i am positioned near the dog, i am still me and i am the boss regardless. A word from me or a hand gesture will be taken the same if I'm laying down or otherwise.
I'm not into the whole video taping stuff and putting it online, sorry.
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But then it could very well be the same silly type of people as the ones who claim that pitbulls are perfectly safe since their dog hasn't maimed anyone yet ::)
You could be seen as silly because you still walk across the street knowing how many others have been killed doing that. You could also be seen as silly for eating meat or fish as how many people get sick and ill over this sometimes.
Just because there is a possibility of something going wrong does not mean that it always will and that it is not worth doing. What you said was just silly, so don't do that again. :laugh2:
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Just because there is a possibility of something going wrong does not mean that it always will and that it is not worth doing. What you said was just silly, so don't do that again. :laugh2:
Actually that's MY point. There is no reason for owning a pit bull (or rottweiler or wolf hybrid) over any other type of dog, so why put people at risk for something so useless?
There is a reason for crossing the street, there is a reason for driving a car. Indeed we take risks, but we choose to run these risks because the rewards are great enough. Someone owning an ass ugly freak dog is not really something I feel the need to risk life and limb for. In fact with regards to traffic there are laws to try to reduce the risks by removing dangerous behavior. It makes sense that for something as useless as owning a specific breed of dog the laws would be even stricter.
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You're giving these dogs way too little credit (or any dog), they are not mindless beasts running around biting things and acting crazy. They eat, they sleep, they ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---, they play, they follow directions just like you and me.
Dogs seek attention and love from an owner and they are not out to hurt you for fun as you seem to think.
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Dogs seek attention and love from an owner and they are not out to hurt you for fun as you seem to think.
Exept those bred to do so... such as pitbulls
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Dogs seek attention and love from an owner and they are not out to hurt you for fun as you seem to think.
Exept those bred to do so... such as pitbulls
There is no general statement such as you made like "pit bulls bred to do so" Any dog can be bred to do that. My pit was not bred to do that as was many other pit bulls, so the blanket statement that all pits are bad is not valid.
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Dogs seek attention and love from an owner and they are not out to hurt you for fun as you seem to think.
Exept those bred to do so... such as pitbulls
There is no general statement such as you made like "pit bulls bred to do so" Any dog can be bred to do that. My pit was not bred to do that as was many other pit bulls, so the blanket statement that all pits are bad is not valid.
There is such a general statement such as that for pits... and most dogs. Pits have been bred for years to be aggressive fighters. Just like other types of dogs have been bred to be bird dogs, herders, etc...
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There is no general statement such as you made like "pit bulls bred to do so" Any dog can be bred to do that. My pit was not bred to do that as was many other pit bulls, so the blanket statement that all pits are bad is not valid.
except when your talking about pit bulls
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How can i take you seriously when you don't even know when to use "your" or "you're". :laugh:
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How can i take you seriously when you don't even know when to use "your" or "you're". :laugh:
:applaud: you can spell and correct grammar :applaud:
Can your dog? <---- look, correct usage :laugh2: :) :laugh2:
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Now all you gotta do is correct your blanket statements about pits and you will be good to go. ;D
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There is no general statement such as you made like "pit bulls bred to do so" Any dog can be bred to do that. My pit was not bred to do that as was many other pit bulls, so the blanket statement that all pits are bad is not valid.
You missquoted me anyhow, i didnt make a statement that they were bad. However you can't come up with any sound argument that pitbulls IN GENERAL are NOT bred to attack, rend, and kill. My statement bounced from a comment that they were bred to cause Injury hence dangerous, not that the breed in general was bad.
Bad and Dangerous are two completely separate things where dogs are concerned.
The problem with a pit bull as with any dog is that when they attack unprovoked they classify as a Bad Dog. Pit bulls are more prone to do so than other breeds because of the traits bred into them.
Yes any breed of dog is capable of doing so. Yes, your dog may be less inclined to do so than your neighbors, but it is still a possibility because of the breed.
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Now all you gotta do is correct your blanket statements about pits and you will be good to go. ;D
Pit bulls are potentially dangerous and easily capable of killing full grown humans, let alone children, without provocation but they are not bad dogs until they actually do so.
There how is that.
(edited hows to how is, in case you take offence at my grammar again) :P
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Pit bulls are potentially dangerous
So is just about everything and everyone we come in contact with in our lives.
If you're so worried about danger then don't leave your house, don't eat meat, don't love another person for fear of being hurt in one way or another. Everything has the potential of hurting us in life but that does not mean it will.
What's so hard about that to understand? Go on the rest of your life being afraid of things then and don't see the good in anything.
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Why do WE need to run a risk for YOUR dog fetish?
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Pit bulls are potentially dangerous
So is just about everything and everyone we come in contact with in our lives.
If you're so worried about danger then don't leave your house, don't eat meat, don't love another person for fear of being hurt in one way or another. Everything has the potential of hurting us in life but that does not mean it will.
What's so hard about that to understand? Go on the rest of your life being afraid of things then and don't see the good in anything.
Owning a pit is like playing Russian roulette, it's possible you'll make it out without any problems, but the odds are too bad and the stakes are too high, so I won't be playing it any time soon.
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They eat, they sleep, they ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---, they play, they follow directions just like you and me.
Q.E.D.
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Pit bulls are potentially dangerous
So is just about everything and everyone we come in contact with in our lives.
It's not a black and white issue. Why is that so difficult to grasp? It's a matter of risk management. You feel safe owning a pit bull, and feel you have put in the requisite time and effort to control its behavior? Congratulations. I don't -- I have neither the time nor the inclination to properly train one.
The problem is that by virtue of the two statements above, you and I are smarter than 80-90% of pit owners, by a wide margin. In fact, most are ---smurfing--- idiots.
Like Chad said earlier, there needs to be a way to ban dumbass owners. The dogs are what they are.
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A few summers ago, I was a manager of a convenience store my father in law owned. Out back, we had a "watchdog" to protect the back door. He was a German Shepherd, but must of had something else in him. The reason I say that is because he was Jet black, and ---smurfing--- HUGE! I am about 6 feet tall, and he could drape his front legs around my shoulders. I am now thinking he might have been a wolf hybrid. The funny thing though is that he was the friendliest dog I've ever had ( I claimed him and took care of him). When I first met him, I was very leery of him. His bark was pretty intimidating, and of course his size was too.After getting to know him I was sitting out there with him, brushing out his coat and playing fetch.
Still, one time he busted his industrial size chain. He was just loping around dragging about 50 lbs of chain without a care in the world. While I was holding him so my father in law could repair his chain, he did something that spooked me pretty good. After struggling against his collar for a few minutes, he turned and looked me straight in the eye, then jerked right out of his collar and took off. Right then, I saw in his eyes that I didn't mean ---Cleveland steamer---, and he was gonna do whatever he wanted. I didn't realize it at first, but now I realize that if he eventually decided he didn't want me messing with him, all that I had done for him up till then wouldn't mean diddly squat.
I left at the end of the summer, and he bit a woman a few months later after he had gotten loose again.
This reads like a ghost story for some reason. ;D
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Like Chad said earlier, there needs to be a way to ban dumbass owners. The dogs are what they are.
I'm also still waiting for a practical solution to that. All I can come up with is ban ning ownership of the dogs - thus banning bad owners.
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Like Chad said earlier, there needs to be a way to ban dumbass owners. The dogs are what they are.
I'm also still waiting for a practical solution to that. All I can come up with is banning ownership of the dogs - thus banning bad owners.
Or you make them take an animal course from the same people who train the police dogs every six-ten years. People like tommy who can't bear to live without their snuggly wuggle snuggle-pooch can go and get the training and then be licensed to own a dog of that breed, while most of the moron owners either wont bother or wont pass. Same thing lots of states/countries do with cars, trucks, guns, heavy machinery, or anything else 'extra dangerous' than a cheese knife. :cheers:
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One County in my state just passed a "vicious dog ordinance". Anyone who wants to own a Pit, German Shepherd, Rottweiler,etc must apply for a special license and pay a $300 registration fee.
The basic purpose is to keep dumb rednecks from tying down a whole pack of them in their yard. If they don't pay the fee, they can get slapped with fines and get the dogs taken away.
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And Tommy, there is a dog breed he feels is worse than your beloved pitts - wolf hybrids. ;)
No kidding. My dad has had two of them. Quietest, shy gentle dogs I've ever seen. But then I've only known two, perhaps others aren't as nice?
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Read this whole thing, and even better then reading it, understand it.
http://www.pitbulllovers.com/pitbullblog/?p=59
I couldn't get past the first paragraph.
If I sat down and counted how many times someone has used bite statistics to show the American Pit Bull Terrier, pit bull type dogs, and other breeds are dangerous I would be living in Anguilla in a beautiful beach house right now.
I think he meant to say "if I had a dollar for how many times...blah blah blah" .
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So is just about everything and everyone we come in contact with in our lives.
If you're so worried about danger then don't leave your house, don't eat meat, don't love another person for fear of being hurt in one way or another. Everything has the potential of hurting us in life but that does not mean it will.
What's so hard about that to understand? Go on the rest of your life being afraid of things then and don't see the good in anything.
You already tried that argument, it doesn't fly. Its a level of Danger. Eating meat is going to slowly clog my arteries over time. Its not going to chew my face off.
Come up with a new argument.
Bad Dog!!! No Baby!!!!!!
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Since Tommy just can't leave well enough alone, I figured I would resurrect this thread so he could be berated some more.
New people, feel free to join in and throw random insults his way. ;D
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go on shardian i cant think of one, ive been playing with the idea of a mortal combat machine mauling a pit bull but i just cant pull the story together with a good punchline
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Why is everybody looking at me ?
::)
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Why is everybody looking at me ? Pit bulls are great dogs and anyone who stereotypes things in life is a fool.
::)
I fixed that quote for you. ;)
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You are such a complete failure at all things quote-fu -- kinda like Chris Farley in Beverly Hills Ninja ...
::)
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It was not meant to be a shot at you if that's what you think. It was what you would have said to shardian if you let out your true feelings.
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It's just that you completely miss the concept of the mangle ... you need to mangle what I actually wrote, not try to pass off your inane thoughts as mine -- I have enough inane thoughts of my own.
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Maybe you're not familiar with the "fixed" concept we sometimes do here by changing someones quote to what they actually mean. That is also why we point out that it was fixed and that you really did not say what was changed.
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Yeah, that's it ... wait, where's the damned :tommy smiley ? ;)
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i love pitbulls and have one to babysit my kids
youre an idiot they are killers and cant be trusted
:D
EDIT sorry should say fixed shouldnt i
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That is not a good example of the "fixed" concept and is just a lie. This is a true farley-like foolish error.
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That is not a good example of the "fixed" concept and is just a lie. Like mine, this is a true farley-like foolish error.
fixt.
QED
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I thought American Ninja was great by Chris Farley btw. When he had his hand through the wall in that one scene and was supposed to disable the bomb and was really taking a part a telephone I almost lost it. Then he said, "there, Ive done it, the bomb is disabled" :laugh2: :laugh2:
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That is not a good example of the "fixed" concept and is just a lie. Like mine, this is a true farley-like foolish error.
fixt.
QED
you say it so much better than i could :cheers:
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Props for the setup ... :cheers:
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Props for the setup ... :cheers:
it was too obvious to miss.
ill throw em out, you knock em in.
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Props for the setup ... :cheers:
it was too obvious to miss. I'm not very bright as you can see.
ill throw em out, you knock em in cause I can't do anything right.
Fixed. :applaud:
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Props for the setup ... :cheers:
it was too obvious to miss. I'm not very bright as you can see.
ill throw em out, you knock em in cause I can't do anything right.
my brains been Fixed.so now i just do this :applaud: :applaud: :applaud: :applaud: :applaud: go giants
fixt ;)
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:applaud: :applaud: :applaud: :applaud: :applaud: go giants
Fixed.
Thanks for supporting the team. :)
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:laugh2:
i come from a town called neath and there is a running joke about what happens when a rugby fan has a labotomy and wakes up chanting neath neath neath neath, it was kind of a play on that ;)
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tommy was right all along! ;D
http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_c3#/video/us/2012/05/09/dnt-ma-dog-pulls-owner-off-train-tracks.wcvb (http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_c3#/video/us/2012/05/09/dnt-ma-dog-pulls-owner-off-train-tracks.wcvb)
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tommy was right all along! ;D
Are you sure about that?
http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/local/wisconsin&id=8654750 (http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/local/wisconsin&id=8654750)
http://kdvr.com/2012/05/09/man-recovering-neighbors-pit-bull-attacked-him/ (http://kdvr.com/2012/05/09/man-recovering-neighbors-pit-bull-attacked-him/)
http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/crime-law/second-pit-bull-attack-leaves-another-toddler-hosp/nNy3L/ (http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/crime-law/second-pit-bull-attack-leaves-another-toddler-hosp/nNy3L/)
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That was supposed to be a sarcastic smiley.
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The dog was probably intending to drag the guy to a spot where he can eat his face in relative safety.
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I thought American Ninja was great by Chris Farley btw. When he had his hand through the wall in that one scene and was supposed to disable the bomb and was really taking a part a telephone I almost lost it. Then he said, "there, Ive done it, the bomb is disabled" :laugh2: :laugh2:
Uhhhh....Chris Farley was not in this movie:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/4/4e/American_Ninja.jpg/220px-American_Ninja.jpg)
However, he was in this one:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e8/Beverly_Hills_Ninja.jpg)
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This site should have a system like Craigslist where the members can click a link like "prohibited" and if enough people do it the posting is deleted but instead of that we temporarily ban members who do stupid things like dig up four and a half year old threads!
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This site should have a system like Craigslist where the members can click a link like "prohibited" and if enough people do it the posting is deleted but instead of that we temporarily ban members who do stupid things like dig up four and a half year old threads!
It is interesting that it took 4-1/2 years for someone to correct Tommy on his Chris Farley movie references.
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This site should have a system like Craigslist where the members can click a link like "prohibited" and if enough people do it the posting is deleted but instead of that we temporarily ban members who do stupid things like dig up four and a half year old threads!
It is interesting that it took 4-1/2 years for someone to correct Tommy on his Chris Farley movie references.
No its interesting that someone took the time to read part or all of a 10 page thread from 4 1/2 years ago and then correct tommy about the movie. :lol
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I wasn't the one who dug the thread up...ahofle did..
I didn't realize it was 4 1/2 years old...and I didn't read the entire thread...i skimmed it. :P
I only view unread posts since last visit. If someone responds to a 4 1/2 year old past it will show up on the list. Did not pay attention to the date the thread was created.
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I wasn't the one who dug the thread up...ahofle did..
I didn't realize it was 4 1/2 years old...and I didn't read the entire thread...i skimmed it. :P
I only view unread posts since last visit. If someone responds to a 4 1/2 year old past it will show up on the list. Did not pay attention to the date the thread was created.
Skimming is the only sane way to read through a thread that tommy started.
Unless it's the one where he whined to Saint about the trader feedback system. What a baby.
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@ahofle
i dont see how you posting that link makes this tommy character wrong. maybe you misunderstand what sarcastic means? posting a link of a pitbull saving a human beings life with no regard to its own safety really only shows support for what tommy said in the very beginning.
and as for the original topic, i agree that tommy was out of his gourd for bringing up the subject with a customer. however i think alot of you are forgetting that in the late 1900's (60's, 70's, 80's) german sheperds, doberman pinschers and rottweilers were decried as viscious and should be banned. for whatever reason pitbulls became a popular breed in the 90's but theyve been around for a loooong time. they were selectively bread over the last 60 or so years to be meaner than they were naturally. what you need to do is stop hating the dogs for human beings did to them. if pitbulls are being considered dangerous just because you dont know how theyll react in a given situation and therefore should be killed or banned dont you think that the most unpredictable animal in the kingdom should suffer the same fate? and yes that would be us, home sapiens, the animal with the greatest propensity for wanton unwarranted and unprovoked destruction on this planet. WE made pitbulls the way they are, WE should take the blame not them.
if you have some sort of snide comment to make please refrain as i dont care. im not attacking anyone and nothing you say will make me believe differently about the why of pitbulls bad reputation.
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nothing you say will make me believe differently about . . . .
What a harebrained way of thinking.
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Seconded. But . . . welcome to America.
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Tommy who?
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Tommy who?
Yes. Tommy was from the Who.
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Is this thread straight up Lazurus'd?
I want a Tommy pinball something fierce. Been jonesing for one for years, I might even trade my TAF for one but I'd rather just find a good deal on one.
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wow from 2007 thread to 2012, thats 5 years (do your math).
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wow from 2007 thread to 2012, thats 5 years (do your math).
Do you do all your measuring with the largest common unit? Because normal non trolling peeps use graduated scales. Lemme explain. October is the 10th month of the year. May is the fifth, we are more than 5 months short of 5 years. Come back and spread your correction around then...
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@ahofle
i dont see how you posting that link makes this tommy character wrong.
The fact that tommy didn't understand the difference between a Ninja (Xouchey2!) from Beverly Hills and America should have been a reasonable clue to the fact that you don't want to hitch your wagon to his viewpoint.
Read his myriad threads. Then come back and defend him.
@Ed, as always: :cheers:
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2012
-2007
-------
5
;D ;D ;D
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2012
-2007
-------
5
;D ;D ;D
Rounded up = 10 freaking years!
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Yup, different decades, clearly it's ten years, not five. DO YOUR MATH
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Threads like this make me hope the Mayans are right. ;)
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Threads like this make me hope the Mayans are right. ;)
The Mayans were right about a great many things, but as far as I know they never had an opinion on when the world would end.
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Threads like this make me hope the Mayans are right. ;)
The Mayans were right about a great many things, but as far as I know they never had an opinion on when the world would end.
Don't get me dissapointed, I am really waiting for this moment to come......If the world don't end this year, you mean I have to stay around and wait, for how long do I have to wait ?
Come on, don't keep me waiting, bring it on >:D
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Man this thread has it all! I'm only on page 10/80 (phone). Pitbulls, Jesus and Nazis!
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and Ninjas! :)
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American Ninja vs Beverly Hills Ninja vs pit bulls
Who wins?
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No matter who wins, we all lose.
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I wish Chris Farley had competed in American Ninja Warrior.